North Korea says nuclear test successful.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

It is time to teach that asshole and his evil regime a lesson.

We did. It's called the Korean War. We killed a hundred billion North Koreans and it "taught" them absolutely nothing.

 

It sounds like your problem lies with the United Nations itself. A much better idea to have them clean up their corruption, speed up their procedures, and become a useful organization when it comes to handling situations of this kind.

 

We should let this asshole get away with it and do nothing but useless negotiations (...)

If this was the Cuban Missile Crisis, would you advocate bombing Cuba? Since "useless negotiations" don't do anything?

 

I say maybe it's time for us to give something. Like starting to negotiate with him. Dubya's usual cowboy-stance is what does absolutely nothing: Kim Jong-Il considers all threats challenges, so the louder Bush yells, the more nukes Kim builds.

[Windu Chi]

We did. It's called the Korean War. We killed a hundred billion North Koreans and it "taught" them absolutely nothing.

Well Dagobahn let me tell you something, to maintain peace on this planet plently of blood is going to have to be spilled in conflicts and wars.

It's fantasy to think that negotiations is always going to keep the peace now and in the future.

 

It sounds like your problem lies with the United Nations itself. A much better idea to have them clean up their corruption, speed up their procedures, and become a useful organization when it comes to handling situations of this kind.

You mean the, ''United Coward Nations''.The UN is useless.

If a "Independence Day" scenario would to have happen our ass is grass.

 

If this was the Cuban Missile Crisis, would you advocate bombing Cuba? Since "useless negotiations" don't do anything?

No, I will be preparing for annihilation, we was luckey back then.

 

I say maybe it's time for us to give something. Like starting to negotiate with him. Dubya's usual cowboy-stance is what does absolutely nothing: Kim Jong-Il considers all threats challenges, so the louder Bush yells, the more nukes Kim builds.

You don't seem that worried about what this crisis will lead to.

He is a tyrant he will not agree to anything that will make him and his regime less powerful in that country.

He is also a criminal and need to be punish.

 

You know for example, if he was committing genocide in that country you would want the authorities to waste precious time negotiating while many people will die in that time.

He is a terrorist; he is terrorizing the world with his nuclear threats.

[Q]

If this was the Cuban Missile Crisis, would you advocate bombing Cuba? Since "useless negotiations" don't do anything?

A fine point. Only international pressure and time will tell if the regime in NK has as much common sense as the Soviets showed in 1962.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Well Dagobahn let me tell you something, to maintain peace on this planet plently of blood is going to have to be spilled in conflicts and wars.

Believe it or not, but I'm one of those naïve souls who believe world peace can be achieved.

 

It's fantasy to think that negotiations is always going to keep the peace now and in the future.

And it's a strawman to say I claimed it would.

 

You mean the, ''Coward Nations''.The UN is useless.

It assists elections in about 200 countries annualy, for one thing. To call it "useless" is a big leap.

 

You don't seem that worried about what this crisis will lead to.

He is a tyrant he will not agree to anything that will make him and his regime less powerful in that country.

He is also a criminal and need to be punish.

 

You know for example, if he was committing genocide in that country you would want the authorities to waste precious time negotiating while many people will die in that time.

He is a terrorist; he is terrorizing the world with his nuclear threats.

That reads like you just copied the neo-con chant on Saddam Hussain pre-Operation Iraqi Screw-up and pasted it here. And look how well the invasion of Iraq turned out.

 

So what the hell is the UN and the US army; a piece of s**t.

Are you drawing that from what I said?

 

I didn't say the US Armed Forces were "a piece of ****", I just said that a Third Korean War would cost a good deal of human lives and money and not be worth it the least.

[Windu Chi]

Believe it or not, but I'm one of those naïve souls who believe world peace can be achieved.

Well let me be more specific. I mean a reasonble peace.

 

 

 

It assists elections in about 200 countries annualy, for one thing. To call it "useless" is a big leap.

What about fighting wars and stoping genocide? They have fail on a massive scale: Rwanda, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Possibily Darfur will be their next failure.

Also Kosovo would have been much more worst if Clinton didn't push for military action.

 

That reads like you just copied the neo-con chant on Saddam Hussain pre-Operation Iraqi Screw-up and pasted it here. And look how well the invasion of Iraq turned out.

Let me make one damn thing clear, f**k Bush and his useless administration.The hell with neo-cons, got it.

Iraq war was a republican and some idiotic demorcrats mistake for, encouraging it.

I am not going to go into why it was, you already know that those threads already exist.

[Nancy Allen``]

I say maybe it's time for us to give something. Like starting to negotiate with him. Dubya's usual cowboy-stance is what does absolutely nothing: Kim Jong-Il considers all threats challenges, so the louder Bush yells, the more nukes Kim builds.

 

We have, plenty of times. Here's some information, first April 23rd 2003.

 

Fox News reports: Three-Way Talks Begin on North Korea's Nuclear Program and North Korean Negotiators Known for Drama. Excerpt from latter article: Historically, North Korea, as a small nation, has tried to play larger players on the world stage against each other, he [scott Snyder, an expert on the nation's negotiating style] said. "They did that for years in their dealings with the Chinese and the Soviet Union," he said. "They basically worked with the Chinese for a while and tried to make the Soviets jealous and then switched back — all the while asking for benefits, primarily economic."

 

UPDATE APRIL 24: Fox News reports: North Korea Admits It Has Nukes. Excerpt: North Korea continued to try to ratchet up the pressure and is believed to want economic aid in exchange for concessions. Its leaders are outraged over U.S. moves to cut off oil shipments because of its suspected nuclear weapons program, and fears it is next on Washington's list for military action. ... The North's Korea People's Army vowed to "put all people under arms and turn the whole country into a fortress" and urged its soldiers to become "human bombs and fighters ready to blow up themselves" to protect leader Kim Jong Il.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84881,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84838,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85033,00.html

 

Remember when Kim Jong blackmailed America by threatening to turn it into a 'sea of fire'? This was reported on July 17th 2003, the link's gone but here's this.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/260067.stm

 

These comments were on September 2 2003.

 

North Korea's hostile weekend reaction to last week's six-way talks on its nuclear program was an initial response and probably a negotiating ploy, South Korea said on Monday. [...]

It is not yet clear whether Pyongyang has officially reneged on that agreement or is using past tactics that mix bluster and brinkmanship with gradual steps forward.

 

"The North Koreans' post-conference verbal offensive was nothing but a stupid repeat of their habitual negotiating strategy," the Korea Herald said in an editorial.

 

Here's one time when aid was given to North Korea, January 26 2004.

 

The donation of 60,000 tons brings the total of U.S. contributions for the year to 100,000. The Bush administration has said it keeps consideration of North Korea's humanitarian needs separate from differences with the reclusive regime on its weapons programs. A second round of arms negotiations has been postponed with no date set.

 

From Capitalism Magazine.

 

This is a clear example of supporting our enemies and keeping them alive, even a purported member of the "Axis of Evil" such as North Korea. We'll never win against any of these countries if we keep them alive with 100,000 metric tons of food. They wanted Communism, let their workers paradise produce their own food.

 

Going back a year ago an article at the time noted: "North Korea continued to try to ratchet up the pressure and is believed to want economic aid in exchange for concessions." Unfortunately for us, such black mail is allowed to work. For it is the hostile dictatorship that ultimately benefits from such aid, not the millions being used as political pawns and slowly starved to death.

 

August 25th 2004.

 

North Korea hurled invective at President Bush for a second day Tuesday, calling him a political idiot and human trash, and said six-party talks on Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions appeared doomed.

A day earlier, a Foreign Ministry spokesman for the isolated communist state described Bush as a tyrannical imbecile who put Adolf Hitler in the shade and said Pyongyang could see no justification to negotiate with his administration.

 

My two cents? If North Korea seeks to harm people, either it's own or those in other countries, then it has to be stopped. How I don't know, I can see us being ****ed taking both the diplomatic and militaristic approach.

[Mace MacLeod]

Okay, just how incredibly stupid do people think Kim Jong-il actually is? He may be a demagogue and a piss-poor leader, but he knows that if he actually uses nuclear weapons to attack his neighbors all Bush has to do is push a single button, and North Korea vanishes. Poof, gone. He's trying to become a Big Boy on the world block, and he clearly loves the attention. After all, North Korea is a pariah state that can't even feed its population without huge aid shipments from (mainly) China, and it wasn't that long ago that reports of mass starvation and even cannibalism in the rural areas began surfacing. The only thing North Korea does have is a huge military, due to Kim spending about half the country's GDP on it, and the entire population is the most brainwashed set of people ever seen. It's like Jonestown, only with artillery pieces and attack planes. But even Kim, like the guy in Iran, must know that any attack on US allies or the US itself using nukes will result in the complete and utter annihilation of their own country and population. You really think they're that foolish?

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Well let me be more specific. I mean a reasonble peace.

As do I.

 

Mace: Agreed. The nukes are for self-defence. Part to deter attack, part to help project this image North Korea wants to have of itself as a rich, industrialized nation (my ass).

 

Google Video, as I said, has two videos on North Korea worth watching. Children of the Secret State is one, and it links to the other one (tagged North Korea Nuclear Documentary or something).

[Nancy Allen``]

But even Kim, like the guy in Iran, must know that any attack on US allies or the US itself using nukes will result in the complete and utter annihilation of their own country and population. You really think they're that foolish?

 

If he was placed in a situation where he would lose power then my gear is he would do absolutely everything he possibly could, including the possibility of going out in a blaze of glory. Don't forget the threats this man's made, and sure they're just threats at this stage but if he's going to parade around with a nuke then he's going to use it, if not to bomb others then as a threat to bully countries into doing what he wants.

[The Source]

The insurgents may be a pain in the arse, but they certainly have not kicked the Coalition's arse. We have not surrendered or retreated. War is messy and is not a neat and clean package like it's portrayed in history books. There'll likely continue to be skirmishes for some time, but that doesn't mean we've lost the war.

 

Abu Ghraib--'butchers' implies to me 'killers'. There was torture, to be sure, and plenty of just really stupid crap going on there, but there was no evidence of mass murder to my knowledge.

 

WMDs--hard to tell on that. Since Saddam used nerve gas on the Kurds in the past, I imagine he's got something squirreled away somewhere. It's a big country to search. I don't think Powell would have put his reputation on the line to lie for Bush--I think they actually thought something more was there and they got a bunch of bad intel.

 

The point is moot, though. We're there now, and we need to finish the job stabilizing the country so the Iraqis can make the transition without having their fledgling government flushed down the toilet by a nasty little civil war. We made a mess, we need to accept the responsibility for it and finish the job of cleaning it up now.

 

North Korea--I'm still waiting to hear if it was a real blast, too, though with the zillion satellites we and other countries likely have trained on NK, I don't think we'll have to wait too long for an answer. Neither possibility would surprise me because of how unstable Kim is.

On a tangent, I was almost surprised that Venezuela condemned the test.

I agree.

 

She is so cool when she is right.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Can anyone who understands this better than me answer me why everyone's condemning and not going "Prove it!"?

 

Is it more obvious that it was a nuclear blast than I thought?

[Nancy Allen``]

Kim Jong whoring off North Korea seems to be a good start in terms of evidence. As for proving whether or not they actually are a nuclear power or had conducted nuclear testing, there is one possibility. North Korea has nuclear power plants right? it'd be interesting to see if these are what are call breeder reacters, if they produce more nuclear material and waste than they need. If they do then this could be a sign that North Korea are siphoning off the excess to be placed in weapons.

[rccar328]

Can anyone who understands this better than me answer me why everyone's condemning and not going "Prove it!"?

 

Is it more obvious that it was a nuclear blast than I thought?

This was the last that I'd heard on the subject of confirmation. They're still trying to tell for sure that it was a nuke, but the evidence seems to point to its being a "fizzle" - it went off, but something went wrong, so it wasn't as powerful as it was supposed to be.

[toms]

Well the UN has voted for sanctions.. and as china voted for them too then they should actually have an effect. We'll see exactly what that is though, and how long it takes.

 

Nuclear weapons are a weapon of last resort. NK havng nuclear weapons in no way represents a threat to the USA. UNLESS the USA decides to invade NK in some crazy attempt to prove something. And deciding to go up against an army twice your size, with nukes, is pretty crazy imho.

 

KJI wants nukes so that the US can't ever preeptively assault him like they did saddam. (NB: "that fool Saddam didn't update his military" because he wass busy complying with UN resolutions and destroying all his missiles.).

He also feels they will boost his standing and negotiating power within the asian region (mostly with south korea and japan).

 

Since the only chance of him using them (baring an acciednt that wipes out half of one of their cities) is attacking him.. it seems strange that your ideal response to him having them should be "attack!".

[The Source]

Truthfully, I would stop sending aide to N. Korea. I would cut them completely off, and let them fend for themselves. Lets see how far they get with their million men army under that type of stress.

[Nancy Allen``]

Friend of mine had that idea, it's a good idea, then have the UN go in and deliver aid directly to the people.

[Mace MacLeod]

IMHO, what Kim is trying to do is goad the US into attacking North Korea, thereby giving him a reason to actually use the few nukes that he possesses, and that's if he has the resources to even make more. North Korea is hitting a very crucial period--Kim knows at some instinctual level that even though North Koreans have become as close to fanatical androids as decades of brainwashing can make them, society will eventually break down if they can't eat. Even China and Russia are backing away slowly, and North Korea can't survive without their aid. The economy is in utter shambles, and only massive food aid shipments and diverting huge numbers of military troops to farming in the last ten years has saved North Korea from mass starvation.

 

This is a last-ditch attempt by that paranoid nutball Kim Jong-il to intimidate his neighbors into thinking they'd better cave in and grant North Korea international status above the current level of "Typhoid Mary". If the US or UN attacks North Korea, it's just playing right into Kim's hands. First of all, you've got a fanatically trained military that will be a much tougher nut to crack than Iraq's military, then you've got 25 million North Koreans who have never been told anything other then Kim Il-Sung or Kim Jong-il propaganda. Remember, one of the reasons the US decided to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki was that they estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 US casualties would result in trying to invade the Japanese home islands, because they knew the Japanese would resist to the last man, woman and child and were determined to take as many enemy lives with them as possible. That's exactly the way the North Koreans would respond to an invasion.

 

Just embargo the place. No trade, no aid. From anywhere. 2-3 years, starvation will have done a lot better job of eliminating North Korea as a threat than any invading army could.

[Totenkopf]

I heard that an embargo was exactly what was unanimously agreed upon in the UN security council. Now, how long will such an embargo remain effective is anyone's guess. The only real upside is that NK has little to offer anyone to make it worth their while to cheat (unlike Iraq under Sadam). The Chinese need to tread carefully here b/c the prospect of a nuclear NK may be enough to send Japan, with it's 5kt of plutonium, into the nuclear camp. Especially given the natioanlist leanings of their new PM Shinzo Abe.

 

The whole question of diplomacy versus force is always a thorny one. In the case of dealing with dictators, diplomacy usually fails unless the dictator is faced with a united opposition that's ready to pound him into the dirt of he fails to come to terms. I've heard that between the two, Ahmaddinejad is more likely to use nukes first than KJI, who was described as more sociopathic, but w/ stronger self-preservation instinct. If you look at the Cuban missle crisis, it was arguably the Soviets who blinked in the face of US nuclear might. Kruschev's fate was sealed by his backing down. Hitler was clear of diplomatic failure and lack of military resolve on the part of stronger powers. Had the British, French and others confronted Germany earlier on (it wasn't exactly a secret he was violating the terms of Versailles, much like Sadam flouted his surrender for 11+ years after Desert Storm),there may never have been a second world war, or at least not in Europe.

 

The UN is mostly a joke and has only arguably been effective in either humanitarian efforts or trying to maintain a barrier between peoples too exhausted to continue their fight. Most UN "military" operations are utter failures. It is only when the US military guts sucked in(or even NATO) that those operations have any affect at all.

 

Israel's possession of nukes never seemed to be a concern to Iranians prior to the ayatollahs. It's unlikely that any nation that can develop a nuclear program in the first place can be prevented from weaponizing that resource in little time. You can't really depend on intelligence estimates for shedding any real light due to the lack of humint in the target countries. Then you have to deal with potentially destabilizing elements like AQ Khan, the father of the Isalmic bomb.

 

The idea that KJI would just let the UN come into his country and distribute aid is fanciful at best. It may be somewhat arguable as to how much his people revere him. If the prospects for surviving are basically nil for openly criticizing your leader, you tend to shut up or sing his praises to escape even suspicion.

 

As to how far the US would go in terms of putting boots on the ground, it's not very likely. The original presence of US troops in Korea was to serve as a tripwire for the escalation of the conflict into a potentially nuclear one, hence to serve as a sort of deterrent. Besides, Clinton severely reduced the military's ability to react to world crises, as Bush no doubt knows. Simply put, the reductions in force levels make it almost impossible for the US to have to fight a 1-1 1/2 front war, let alone the original post war 2-2 1/2 fronts. The same goes pretty much for Iran. About the only thing that could be done would be to preemptively strike Iran's military and provide support for an internal revolution, which would only succeed if we don't do what we did in Iraq

after the first Gulf War, which was to leave the opposition hanging in the wind.

 

Seems to me that if the governments that were seeking the bomb (eg Iran and NK) could be believed that it was only for self defense (if you really believe that, would you be interested in buying the Holland Tunnel or Brooklyn bridge...) one might have an argument. Given the realities of the world however, it's awfully naive to believe that these outfits wouldn't try to sell/give bombs to a third party bent on destruction.

It no longer becomes an issue of whether someone should be allowed to possess such a thing on general principle, but whether they could be trusted once they got their hands on it. That's where the worrisome policy of preemption come into play.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Kim Jong-Il has no incentive to start a war - unless you can provide me with one.

 

He wants nuclear weapons for self-defence, and so do, probably, the ayathollas. As for the monetary profit of selling nukes to parties that would use them, that's a different question.

 

The idea that KJI would just let the UN come into his country and distribute aid is fanciful at best.

Yesh. He wants his horrific, starving villages to remain as secret as possible.

 

It may be somewhat arguable as to how much his people revere him. If the prospects for surviving are basically nil for openly criticizing your leader, you tend to shut up or sing his praises to escape even suspicion.

There are people outside of North Korea who think the poverty is the US and UK's fault. Imagine, then, the people inside North Korea who've been subject to propaganda all their life and never given a second of dissenting opinion.

[Totenkopf]

Yeah, most likely any NK would blame outsiders if they said anything publically. Still, no way to know for certain what they really believe. But it's really not relevant to addressing the question anyway. If it comes to combat, it's really only the "million man army" of KJI that you need worry about. KJI has bought their allegiance.

 

Don't know if that comment about KJI was aimed at me, so to speak, but I didn't say he actually did. He's more likely to continue rattling his saber to try to extort any concessions he can get from the west. He's much more likely to sell a nuke tipped scud to one of our (America's) nemeses than to actually launch one vs us instead. I don't buy, however, that Iran or NK are trying to develop nuke weapons for strictly defensive means. Unless the Iranians are using Ahmadinejad as a form of bad cop, one has to figure that they mean what they say about this 12th Imam biz. Like the Nazis before them, these guys look to start with the jews, not necessarily end with them.

 

I'll also reemphasize my earlier point. Preemption is not in and of itself immoral or even wrong. It is a tool, the intent behind it being the only question mark. It is not necessary to wait for someone to inflict great harm upon you before you act to prevent such a thing. Specifically, if the US had found the 19 highjackers prior to their getting their planes, and killed them.......that would have been a legitimate use of self defense. It may seem somehow more humanitarian to just lock them up, but wars are messy business and no time for squeamish people to be in positions of power.

Coddeling the opposition under those circumstances only encourages them to keep on trying to hit you, knowing your too weak to truly protect yourself.

[Mace MacLeod]

Ironic how North Korea's biggest ideological cornerstone is Juche or self-reliance as it translates. The civil horrors there are no one's fault but their inept cult-of-personality leaders.

Yesh. He wants his horrific, starving villages to remain as secret as possible.

Wouldn't you? North Korea is one of the most paranoid and secretive regions on Earth. Area 51 is positively a tourist trap compared with Pyongyang.

Kim Jong-Il has no incentive to start a war - unless you can provide me with one.

Apart from desperation, no he doesn't. This is brinksmanship, and a direct challenge to the US's shiney new "shoot first and look for weapons of mass destruction later" foreign policy.

Israel's possession of nukes never seemed to be a concern to Iranians prior to the ayatollahs. It's unlikely that any nation that can develop a nuclear program in the first place can be prevented from weaponizing that resource in little time. You can't really depend on intelligence estimates for shedding any real light due to the lack of humint in the target countries. Then you have to deal with potentially destabilizing elements like AQ Khan, the father of the Isalmic bomb.

Interesting to note, just a little while after the toppling of Saddam's regime, Syria was accused by the US of helping foster terrorism and unrest in Iraq. Lots of saber-rattling went on for a while, then Syria actually called for the Middle East to be a WMD-free zone. No nukes, no chemical weapons, no WMDs for anyone. Suddenly, all the noise stopped. Funny, that.

 

Allow me to say finally, that I really do think that North Korea is now drawing a line in the sand with regards to Bushie's First Strike policy. They're saying; "Yeah, we pose a threat. We could come get you. What are you gonna do about it? Huh?" and they're trying to lead the US into a trap. The US attacks first, they lose the "Moral High Ground" and they risk China jumping in on North Korea's side. Plus, they have to fight the North Korean military, who aren't likely to start running backwards and blowing kisses like the Iraqi Republican Guard.

 

Oh, and one last thing: to the people who think the UN and US are being "cowardly" by not rushing in to blast North Korea away NOWRIGHTNOW: this "cowardice" consisting of not just assuming because someone might attack you means they must be attacked "before they get us" is the only thing that kept the US, USSR, China, Britain and France from wiping out the entire human race forty years ago.

 

And windu6, pick a goddamn text colour and stick with it.

[Windu Chi]

 

And windu6, pick a goddamn text colour and stick with it.

I am going to used whatever damn colors I want so deal with it.

If you don't like my use color tags then go color blind.

I like using colors tags and thats the end of this discussion on that, Mace MacLeod.

 

Well with the sanctions passed we will all see if North Korea is bluffing on their threats of a second Korean War.

[Jae Onasi]

Yesh. He wants his horrific, starving villages to remain as secret as possible.

Unfortunately, I think when the world truly finds out what's happening there, we're going to all be very ill.

 

North Korea is one of the most paranoid and secretive regions on Earth. Area 51 is positively a tourist trap compared with Pyongyang.

However, very true, too.

 

 

Apart from desperation, no he doesn't. This is brinksmanship, and a direct challenge to the US's shiney new "shoot first and look for weapons of mass destruction later" foreign policy.

I wonder how much of it is also a cultural 'save face' kind of thing. I agree he's playing chicken, though it's pretty stupid to do that when he has the equivalent of a tricycle up against the world's souped up drag-racer.

 

 

Allow me to say finally, that I really do think that North Korea is now drawing a line in the sand with regards to Bushie's First Strike policy. They're saying; "Yeah, we pose a threat. We could come get you. What are you gonna do about it? Huh?" and they're trying to lead the US into a trap.

Since their missiles do not have the range to hit the US, it's less of an imperative for us, though I agree they're drawing a line in the sand. And then moving it around and making fun of everyone.

 

The US attacks first, they lose the "Moral High Ground" and they risk China jumping in on North Korea's side.

I don't think we'd make a move in that region without both China's and Russias approval, since they both _do_ have missiles that can reach us....And I think we'd let China take the lead, since they share the border with NK and would have to deal with a far greater refugee problem than they already currently have.

 

Plus, they have to fight the North Korean military, who aren't likely to start running backwards and blowing kisses like the Iraqi Republican Guard.

NK can't even light up their country at night. The soldiers are underfed (every picture I've seen of their military shows rather gaunt soldiers), and likely poorly equipped. They do not have equipment as modern as the US, nor do they have enough of it, nor do they have the infrastructure to crank out equipment and move around materiel in a timely manner. I think we'd see a fair number of surrenders, and a couple smart generals who would see the writing on the wall and decide that cooperating with outside governments to overthrow Kim could put them in power in NK.

 

 

And windu6, pick a goddamn text colour and stick with it.

 

I don't care if windu 6 changes things around, I just want him to pick the light colors that are easy to read against the dark background, because it's a b*tch to see black, red, dark green, dark grey, and purple against this dark grey. My multipley-29 year old eyes can't take it when the dark words disappear into the background.

Sometimes I just hit the 'reply to' button so I can read it as black text on white, which negates the purpose of color in the first place.

windu6--the best contrast is white on black. If you gotta do colors, at least pick the ones that are lighter and brighter, like yellow, orange, and pale green. Your point doesn't work well if some of us who are Auld Pharts can't read them because the low contrast makes it too hard.

[toms]

The UN is mostly a joke and has only arguably been effective in either humanitarian efforts or trying to maintain a barrier between peoples too exhausted to continue their fight. Most UN "military" operations are utter failures. It is only when the US military guts sucked in(or even NATO) that those operations have any affect at all.

 

To be fair, peacekeeping operations are insanely difficult. And of the 100 or so the UN has run a large number have been successful. But of course some aren't going to work out well.. and those tend to be the ones we hear about.

 

The problem with a lot of them is that the international support isn't there in terms of resources. (and contrary to what people in the US seem to think, the US is often way below it's share of troop contributions to UN peacekeeping. ) Most of the UN believe that having a standing Rapid Reaction Force would be the way to stop a lot of these problems before they start. Doesn't the US keep blocking that?

 

-

 

The problem with sanctions of course is that the last person they hurt is KJI. He'll be eating steak while all his people starve.

Still, i guess he won't care much as he seems to have achieved his main aim of facing down the US.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

This Telegraph article mentions a quite ingenious (in my view) way to deter Kim Jong-Il and his cronies. It hits the nail on the head so badly that it's amusing:

The resolution also blocks [...] the export of luxury goods to the North.

 

Not going to affect the civilian population the least, while at the same time hurting the elite. Ingenious and hilarious.

 

How effective it's going to be, though, I have no idea. Probably not much.