Who "Do Not Want" Kotor3?

[Prime]

I just want at least some tangentical connection of K3 to K2. Basically, some mention of The Exile and Revan. And, maybe, having the enemy be the "True Sith". But that's about it. There was subtle connections between K1 and K2, which explains what happened to Revan. I hope for these same subtle connections between K2 and K3.

Indeed.

 

LA has ruined a perfectly good franchise, i believe.

How so?

 

kotor's charm is on its story, and all the different choices and possabilities you can toy with. Having too complex a game system(especially combat) only make it more like some online MMO where the main focus is leveling and combat rather than story and roleplaying.

Which I think was one of Obsidian's downfalls. The new additions (robes, lightsaber components, etc.) are great and all, but it seems that left less time to craft the story. K2's story is a great concept and a lot of potential (which it largely delivers on IMO), but could have been great had it remained the top focus.

 

As far as K1 NPCs I wouldn't mind seeing some EU stories on them. Something like a one-shot or short comic series taking place before or after K1(still alive since Revan being canonical LS).

I'd say those sorts of mediums would be better to cover those sorts of characters.

 

I don't know what everyone else feels, but to me all of Kreia's talk about the true Sith and "the great war that comes" has a major "To be continued" sign in neon all over it.

Might be, but doesn't mean that Revan or the Exile need to be directly involved. What might be important is that there is a great war as a result of what Revan did. Again, what is more important is the result and effects of the actions taken by Revan and the Exile, not what happens to the characters themselves.

 

And that's not even counting that we hear about Revan the entire game without ever finding him again, or even hearing what becomes of the Exile.

The only reason why you might have heard so much about Revan the entire game is because you actively asked about him the entire game. If you don't keep selecting those dialog options, you actually learn very little about Revan from the main story plot (apart that he was some dude that disappeared). Those extra options were thrown in for the fans and players of the previous game.

 

The main plot of the game isn't about searching for Revan, it is about finding out why the Exile is targeted/to defeat the Sith lords/rebuild the Jedi Order. The Revan stuff is more of a side plot.

 

It's not as if TLS has the sort of ending where the Exile goes off into the sunset to live happily ever after...

But does she have to? Just because we don't see what happens to her after TSL doesn't mean her contribution to the story isn't over. Suppose she goes off into the Unknown Regions to look for Revan. So what?

 

The important part is that the True Sith may be out there and they are a threat, and perhaps that Revan engaging them stirs them to action. Whether the Exile finds Revan or not probably doesn't make any difference. What was important is that the Exile destroyed the Sith Lords in Republic space and the state the Republic was left in.

 

Same sort of thing with Revan. The important part is probably that he went into the Unknown Regions looking for the Sith. As a result, he may have brought about a war between them and the Republic (or the Jedi or whatever). That is what affects the galaxy at large. That is what is important. And that is what is ripe for a new story about a new character that has to deal with what was brought about be the previous characters. Just like the Exile had to deal with what was brought about by Revan.

 

The fact that Revan wasn't in TSL doesn't matter to the story. If Revan was all important to the plot of the KOTOR, he would have been in TSL. He wasn't, because he didn't need to be there.

 

No offense, but I just don't understand how anyone can say that Revan's and Exile's stories are over. Sorry, but I just don't get it.

Because the story can continue just fine without ever encountering them again or learning what happened to them.

[Loderian]

"MacIntyre continues, “We’ve also got Star Wars franchises like Knights of the Old Republic and Battle Front that we will not leave behind. It’s very important to us that we grow those franchises.” So the future of Str Wars includes new and old game-based IP as well as IP based on other spin-offs. "

 

That does not directly say though: "we are going to make a KOTOR 3" maybe they have new ideas for expanding the KOTOR franchise, but by going in a different direction. It would be more of an official announcement if they flat out said: We will release KOTOR 3 at such and such time.

[Darth InSidious]

Which part of 'We've also got franchises like Knights of the Old Republic which we will not leave behind' is not stating an intent to make a third KotOR?

 

Another way of putting that phrase, you see, is 'we will not abandon KotOR', or 'we will not shelve KotOR', or 'we will not give up on making money from the KotOR franchise'. Where can they make more money out of KotOR with the same or lower outlay than from a third game?

 

Also, here's a bit of friendly advice: Don't be so obnoxious. You won't make any friends that way

[Loderian]

they could take the franchise in a new way without making a 3rd. They could do something similar to Fable the lost chapters, where they make an expansion of the KOTOR 2 game, maybe covering the story of characters that had open endings, or little back story.

 

i'm sure there are plenty of people that would like to know the origins of, and what happens next after KOTOR 2 ends, of certain characters.

[Darth InSidious]

Sure, they could to something like 'The Lost Chapters'. But guess what Lionhead is developing right now. I'll give you a hint: Le Baft, Ow! (anag.)

 

But really, where would you go with a KotOR II expansion that you couldn't go with greater profitability with KotOR III?

 

There are also the KotOR comics which, if I understand correctly, cover stuff like where Visas Marr came from, for example

[RobQel-Droma]

If you don't want K3, why did you even buy TSL? Especially if you had heard that the story was unfinished?

 

I agree. After all the game is called "Knights of the Old Republic," not Knight of the Old Republic. The story does not have to remain focused on the former PCs. While I would love to see more about the Exile, Revan or other NPCs, I agree with Prime that their stories are complete.

 

Sorry, but you lost me. When were their stories ever complete? Revan's was the only complete one, but it was "made" incomplete by TSL, which introduced a kind of afterword, one that had all the implications of "To Be Continued."

 

Might be, but doesn't mean that Revan or the Exile need to be directly involved. What might be important is that there is a great war as a result of what Revan did. Again, what is more important is the result and effects of the actions taken by Revan and the Exile, not what happens to the characters themselves.

 

I see your point. But the story then has an unfinished part, and the two characters must be part of the story, because not only to they have gaps in their stories that have very much to do with the "result and effects of the actions taken by Revan and the Exile", their story of how they effected the galaxy is unfinished. We still don't know what the last part they have in the storyline is.

 

The only reason why you might have heard so much about Revan the entire game is because you actively asked about him the entire game. If you don't keep selecting those dialog options, you actually learn very little about Revan from the main story plot (apart that he was some dude that disappeared). Those extra options were thrown in for the fans and players of the previous game.

 

You learn very little about Kreia if you don't ask, too. You also don't learn about your party members if you don't ask. In fact... I think you might not have learned anything if you didn't ever choose other dialogue options than the one that says "Enough yakking, let's go." (general translation)

 

BTW, if this is the case for Revan, then why do people place so much value on three mentions of "True Sith" by Kreia at the end of the game as a hint that we will face the supposed Sith species in K3?

 

The main plot of the game isn't about searching for Revan, it is about finding out why the Exile is targeted/to defeat the Sith lords/rebuild the Jedi Order. The Revan stuff is more of a side plot.

 

I actually agree. This is also why I don't want a K3 that is completely focused on finding the "messiah" that is what Revan has become for some.

 

That does not directly say though: "we are going to make a KOTOR 3" maybe they have new ideas for expanding the KOTOR franchise, but by going in a different direction. It would be more of an official announcement if they flat out said: We will release KOTOR 3 at such and such time.

 

Really.

 

Another way of putting that phrase, you see, is 'we will not abandon KotOR', or 'we will not shelve KotOR', or 'we will not give up on making money from the KotOR franchise'. Where can they make more money out of KotOR with the same or lower outlay than from a third game?

 

I totally agree. Loderian, I'm not sure whether you understand what "not leaving behind the franchise" means. Like Darth InSid said, they've got all the comics and have expanded KotOR past the games already, so doesn't that leave -> continuing the game series as an option for what they mean by that statement?

 

What do you think it means for Battlefront, then? Doesn't the usual meaning of franchise mean the series of games, just like it would for a TV show?

[Mace MacLeod]

You gotta be kidding me. This thread is still going...?

 

Dammit, they've got to make KotOR III. Yeah sure, they did comics and that, but c'mon they made these two games and left the story hanging, the least they could do is finish it! LF and whatever developer they pick to do KotOR III aren't saying anything because they don't want endless internet fanboy harrassment and speculation to rush their job. TSL got rushed, and look what happened. Massive plot holes and an obviously unfinished product have been picked over ad nauseum by us and everyone else. It'll happen. Give it some patience, people! And nonbelievers may feel free to STFU.

[Jediphile]

Might be, but doesn't mean that Revan or the Exile need to be directly involved. What might be important is that there is a great war as a result of what Revan did. Again, what is more important is the result and effects of the actions taken by Revan and the Exile, not what happens to the characters themselves.

 

To me that's like saying Rowling should write Harry Potter 7, but not bother to have Ron and Hermione in it, because they're not essential to the plot. Of course they should be in there - they're great characters. To not use them would be silly to the point of being illegal. Or should be. The same goes for Revan and Exile in my book. Actually, you could make the same sort of argument for most characters in most ongoing series: Let's continue to do Battlestar Galactica, but not have Adama and Tigh in it. Or let's do Star Wars Episode III, but cut out Yoda and Padmé, since we don't actually need them in the plot. Or even let's do Pirates of the Caribbean III, but not have Jack Sparrow in it, since we don't need him for the plot, and he's dead now anyway...

 

The only reason why you might have heard so much about Revan the entire game is because you actively asked about him the entire game. If you don't keep selecting those dialog options, you actually learn very little about Revan from the main story plot (apart that he was some dude that disappeared). Those extra options were thrown in for the fans and players of the previous game.

 

You will hear about Revan from lots of sources whether you care to or not. And just what sort of player will actually go out of his way to NOT hear about Revan? Wouldn't that be like playing a game that you're not interested in? Besides, you could make just the same argument for most of the characters in the game, suggesting that they're not important. You don't HAVE to ask Kreia about Sion and Nihilus. Does this mean they're not important? Of course not...

 

But does she have to? Just because we don't see what happens to her after TSL doesn't mean her contribution to the story isn't over. Suppose she goes off into the Unknown Regions to look for Revan. So what?

 

I could accept that were it not for the total and utter lack of closure to those characters. You could even have learned of Revan's ultimate death at the end of the game, but no you don't - instead you hear that he's off fighting some ancient evil that threatens the entire Republic, and that your own protagonist must go off and help him. So you fly off to do so, fade out, roll end credits. Had there been closure to Revan and Exile, then I might agree, but not only are they left alive, no, the plot actually builds to a climax for them that we never see, which speaks volumes. To not pick up on that in the subsequent plot would be like simply leaving out Han Solo except for a few throwaway phrases in RotJ.

 

The fact that Revan wasn't in TSL doesn't matter to the story. If Revan was all important to the plot of the KOTOR, he would have been in TSL. He wasn't, because he didn't need to be there.

 

Actually, he was in the tomb on Korriban

 

Because the story can continue just fine without ever encountering them again or learning what happened to them.

 

It could continue, but I dare say not "just fine." Had there been closure to the characters in TSL, then maybe. But there wasn't, and we need that. The alternative is pretty bad storytelling, if you ask me. Besides, not using great characters like Revan and Exile would be utter stupidity IMHO. Why not use them? That's what they're there for, after all. I can't think of a single reason that speaks in favor of just throwing them out of the plot.

[Darth InSidious]

To me that's like saying Rowling should write Harry Potter 7, but not bother to have Ron and Hermione in it, because they're not essential to the plot. Of course they should be in there - they're great characters. To not use them would be silly to the point of being illegal. Or should be. The same goes for Revan and Exile in my book. Actually, you could make the same sort of argument for most characters in most ongoing series: Let's continue to do Battlestar Galactica, but not have Adama and Tigh in it. Or let's do Star Wars Episode III, but cut out Yoda and Padmé, since we don't actually need them in the plot. Or even let's do Pirates of the Caribbean III, but not have Jack Sparrow in it, since we don't need him for the plot, and he's dead now anyway...

 

 

 

You will hear about Revan from lots of sources whether you care to or not. And just what sort of player will actually go out of his way to NOT hear about Revan? Wouldn't that be like playing a game that you're not interested in? Besides, you could make just the same argument for most of the characters in the game, suggesting that they're not important. You don't HAVE to ask Kreia about Sion and Nihilus. Does this mean they're not important? Of course not...

 

 

 

I could accept that were it not for the total and utter lack of closure to those characters. You could even have learned of Revan's ultimate death at the end of the game, but no you don't - instead you hear that he's off fighting some ancient evil that threatens the entire Republic, and that your own protagonist must go off and help him. So you fly off to do so, fade out, roll end credits. Had there been closure to Revan and Exile, then I might agree, but not only are they left alive, no, the plot actually builds to a climax for them that we never see, which speaks volumes. To not pick up on that in the subsequent plot would be like simply leaving out Han Solo except for a few throwaway phrases in RotJ.

 

 

 

Actually, he was in the tomb on Korriban

 

 

 

It could continue, but I dare say not "just fine." Had there been closure to the characters in TSL, then maybe. But there wasn't, and we need that. The alternative is pretty bad storytelling, if you ask me. Besides, not using great characters like Revan and Exile would be utter stupidity IMHO. Why not use them? That's what they're there for, after all. I can't think of a single reason that speaks in favor of just throwing them out of the plot.

 

QFT.

 

The other arguments about the difficulty of re-introducing an old character as a PC don't hold water either - a new character will have to have amnesia too - look at the Exile and her curious inability to remember who Bao-Dur was...

[RobQel-Droma]

Funny how you make a long post about something and then someone else comes along and says it three times better.

 

I agree with Jediphile.

[Jediphile]

The other arguments about the difficulty of re-introducing an old character as a PC don't hold water either - a new character will have to have amnesia too - look at the Exile and her curious inability to remember who Bao-Dur was...

 

It was pretty hard role-playing the Exile, when he clearly had so much past knowledge that he never revealed himself. That the character is unwilling to share it with friends and companions is one thing, but I need to know it to play the character. Since I didn't, it meant that playing the Exile was like playing blindfolded with a hand tied behind my back.

 

Don't get me wrong, though. I actually don't want to have Revan or the Exile as the protagonist in KotOR3. I'd much rather go for a new, young jedi padawan-turning-knight. I'd want Revan and Exile in the plot as major characters who could be playable only later in the game.

 

I mean, Revan and Exile are pretty powerful characters now. Revan is at least level 20 (and probably a lot more, given that he's been off fighting the true Sith for four years), while the Exile could be pushing level 50. How do you make a playable game that retains progressive elements at those power levels from the beginning? And "resetting" either of them back to level 1 would be lame beyond description, since that's what we've seen twice in as many games now. Sure, the Exile didn't officially have amnesia as Revan did, but then it hardly mattered, when the effect amounted to the same thing...

[Vaelastraz]

It was pretty hard role-playing the Exile, when he clearly had so much past knowledge that he never revealed himself. That the character is unwilling to share it with friends and companions is one thing, but I need to know it to play the character. Since I didn't, it meant that playing the Exile was like playing blindfolded with a hand tied behind my back.

 

Don't get me wrong, though. I actually don't want to have Revan or the Exile as the protagonist in KotOR3. I'd much rather go for a new, young jedi padawan-turning-knight. I'd want Revan and Exile in the plot as major characters who could be playable only later in the game.

 

I mean, Revan and Exile are pretty powerful characters now. Revan is at least level 20 (and probably a lot more, given that he's been off fighting the true Sith for four years), while the Exile could be pushing level 50. How do you make a playable game that retains progressive elements at those power levels from the beginning? And "resetting" either of them back to level 1 would be lame beyond description, since that's what we've seen twice in as many games now. Sure, the Exile didn't officially have amnesia as Revan did, but then it hardly mattered, when the effect amounted to the same thing...

 

 

I would not use game mechanics to determine the power of characters... Levels are a RPG element, to show us the progress of our characters in the game, and to reward us. "yeah, level up!!!"

 

After all you didn't think something like "WOW, Malak is a strong badass, got to be at least level 32!!!" did you?

 

A Mira level 20 can be stronger than a Revan level 20... if skilled right with the right weapons. Does that make sense?

[Jediphile]

Either way, levels do speak to a character's ability and power, and high levels certainly make characters more powerful. That both Revan and Exile are either amnesic or suffer a loss of power is really just used as a means to both explain how the character can grow so powerful so quickly and to give the character background. No, I don't particularly like the D20 system either, but we're stuck with it, unless it's tossed out for a different system. And beginning a game at level 20 or higher will make it far less playable, since the progressive element will be vastly reduced. Watching your puny characters grow powerful and skillful is part of the fun, after all.

[Prime]

That does not directly say though: "we are going to make a KOTOR 3" maybe they have new ideas for expanding the KOTOR franchise, but by going in a different direction.

Which is exactly what Raven did with JA and the JK series...

 

There are also the KotOR comics which, if I understand correctly, cover stuff like where Visas Marr came from, for example

Just to clarify, there was a one-shot story in Tales about Nihilis destroying Visas' homeworld. The ongoing comic series covers completely new characters at the start of the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Again showing that there are lots of great potential stories in that era that don't involve Revan or the Exile.

 

But the story then has an unfinished part, and the two characters must be part of the story, because not only to they have gaps in their stories that have very much to do with the "result and effects of the actions taken by Revan and the Exile", their story of how they effected the galaxy is unfinished. We still don't know what the last part they have in the storyline is.

That part is ok. I'm not arguing that K3 needs to have all references to Revan and the Exile erased. All I'm saying that there is no requirement storywise to have either (moreso the Exile) directly involved in the game. It is sufficient to learn of the results of their actions.

 

You learn very little about Kreia if you don't ask, too. You also don't learn about your party members if you don't ask. In fact... I think you might not have learned anything if you didn't ever choose other dialogue options than the one that says "Enough yakking, let's go." (general translation)

But you automatically learn a reasonable amount about these characters, especially Kriea, just by advancing through the game. It is impossible not to learn that Kriea was Sith, for example. You have to learn certain things about different characters because the plot won't advance otherwise. Learning about Revan is more side information. How many points during the game would prevent you from advancing without learning more about Revan? Not a lot, if any, if I recall.

 

Like Darth InSid said, they've got all the comics and have expanded KotOR past the games already, so doesn't that leave -> continuing the game series as an option for what they mean by that statement?

Plus, she is the VP of marketing for Lucasarts, with is not at all involved with the comics. She is only permitted to speak on behalf of that area, which is videogames.

 

You gotta be kidding me. This thread is still going...?

And nonbelievers may feel free to STFU.

If you aren't interested in contributing, take your own advice.

 

Or let's do Star Wars Episode III, but cut out Yoda and Padmé, since we don't actually need them in the plot.

But that's my point, both of these characters are essentail to the plot. Yoda, because it had to be shown that the Emperor defeated the greatest of the Jedi (as a worthy adversary) and showed that the Order was fully defeated, and Padme because without her Anakin has no reason to go to the dark side. The story cannot advance in its current form without these characters.

 

My argument is that KOTOR's story can advance with only passing references to those characters.

 

As for BSG, I haven't seen the last few seasons, and PC I've only seen the first one, so I won't comment.

 

You will hear about Revan from lots of sources whether you care to or not.

Such as? I seem to remember, and it has been a while, that almost all sources of information were from dialog options that could be skipped if desired. And on top of that most information is locked behind Kriea's influence, so many players can't access it even if they wanted to.

 

And just what sort of player will actually go out of his way to NOT hear about Revan?

A player that didn't play the first game and does not want to sit around listening at length about a character that currently has little affect on the story being told. Or a player that already knows about Revan and so didn't want to have it all spelled out again.

 

Wouldn't that be like playing a game that you're not interested in?

No. It is skipping parts you aren't interested in. I have no interest in G0-T0, so apart from the parts that I have to go through, I don't spend any time to find out more about him. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in the game overall.

 

Besides, you could make just the same argument for most of the characters in the game, suggesting that they're not important.

In some cases, yes. The handmadian, hanharr, desciple, and mira are not important per se, because you can get through the game just fine without them. They add value to the game, but they are by no means essential. Take Disciple out. Does the game drastically change? No. Doesn't mean they are bad characters, just that they are not critically important.

 

You don't HAVE to ask Kreia about Sion and Nihilus. Does this mean they're not important? Of course not...

But you can't get through the game without learning about them or encountering them. They both directly affect the plot. Revan doesn't.

 

You could even have learned of Revan's ultimate death at the end of the game, but no you don't - instead you hear that he's off fighting some ancient evil that threatens the entire Republic, and that your own protagonist must go off and help him.

Yes! And the result of that is what might be important to K3's plot. Did it result in a war with the Republic? Did the true Sith get defeated? You can learn all that indirectly in a potential K3 story. Hell, you could leave out any mention of the Exile and still close the overall plot point.

 

Actually, he was in the tomb on Korriban

Touche.

 

Had there been closure to the characters in TSL, then maybe. But there wasn't, and we need that.

But we learn about the fates of just about every character in TSL.

 

Besides, not using great characters like Revan and Exile would be utter stupidity IMHO. Why not use them?

Because they may not fit the future plot, and there may need to be more time devoted to new characters.

 

I can't think of a single reason that speaks in favor of just throwing them out of the plot.

References can still be included, but they don't need to be the focus.

 

The other arguments about the difficulty of re-introducing an old character as a PC don't hold water either - a new character will have to have amnesia too

Argh, not more amnesia!

 

There have been many threads around on why reintroducing old PCs doesn't really work in RPGs.

 

look at the Exile and her curious inability to remember who Bao-Dur was...

How is it curious? For starters, you can say that you remember him. Even if not, there is nothing sinister about not recognizing an aquintance from over a decade ago.

 

It was pretty hard role-playing the Exile, when he clearly had so much past knowledge that he never revealed himself. That the character is unwilling to share it with friends and companions is one thing, but I need to know it to play the character. Since I didn't, it meant that playing the Exile was like playing blindfolded with a hand tied behind my back.

But that is kind of missing the point of an RPG isn't it? The idea isn't to figure out how you are supposed to play the character, but making the character your own and playing him/her how you want to play. You seem to be implying that there is a right and wrong way to play the character, which isn't true. That is why it is hard to bring a PC back in future games to interact with. Everyone is going to have different visions of the character, so it is impossible for the devs to capture them all.

 

I'd want Revan and Exile in the plot as major characters who could be playable only later in the game.

But why would you want to spend the majority of the game building your new character only to be forced into playing another characer at the end?

[kotorfan84]

I agree with a lot of what Prime says. There are too many visions of Revan/The Exile, to really include them in the game. When ever I post here, I've been for using the cannon endings (Even though I prefer Revan to be a DS male, and the exile to be a LS male), but more than likely, we'll learn of their fate and move on. I definately don't want to play as either Revan or the Exile. At this point they are too powerful, and when the game ends, I want my character to be the strongest. I'm also against a character with any form of Amnesia, voluntary or not. Hopefully the character is a young promising jedi.

[ExileRevan]

I don't want alot of stuff that was left out that better explains the story that we were suposed to see and have to download later. That's the only problem I had with KOTOR 2.

[Darth InSidious]

Just to clarify, there was a one-shot story in Tales about Nihilis destroying Visas' homeworld. The ongoing comic series covers completely new characters at the start of the Mandalorian Wars.

I sit corrected

 

And you misspelled 'Nihilus'

 

Again showing that there are lots of great potential stories in that era that don't involve Revan or the Exile.

 

True, but they aren't the main story of KotOR

 

Argh, not more amnesia!

Quite. That said, how manyPCs in RPG's DON'T start with something similar?

There have been many threads around on why reintroducing old PCs doesn't really work in RPGs.

Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.

How is it curious? For starters, you can say that you remember him. Even if not, there is nothing sinister about not recognizing an aquintance from over a decade ago.

No, you can say you THINK you remember him. Difference. And there is something a bit bizarre about forgetting the ONLY Iridonian mechanic around, and someone to whom you gave an order that totally changed, warped and generally turned upside-down your life.

[RedHawke]

Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.

Yes, yes it does. It is how these games work and how they always will work.

[Prime]

And you misspelled 'Nihilus'

Whoops!

 

True, but they aren't the main story of KotOR

Nor were the characters (apart from T3, HK, and Canderous) in K2. There is lots of room for new characters and still tie it in indirectly to K1, just like K2 does.

 

Quite. That said, how manyPCs in RPG's DON'T start with something similar?

Which makes it pretty cliche, doesn't it?

 

Yes, there have. But just because the same argument is repeated a lot doesn't make it any more the truth.

But from those arguments, can you point me to solutions that decently solve the problems mentioned? I don't remember seeing any...

 

No, you can say you THINK you remember him. Difference. And there is something a bit bizarre about forgetting the ONLY Iridonian mechanic around, and someone to whom you gave an order that totally changed, warped and generally turned upside-down your life.

It is very easy to not recognize someone, especially out of context, from over a decade ago. And an Iridonian is probably "just another guy" in the SW universe. Just because she may remember that she gave some guy an order a long time ago, doesn't mean she will automatically remember that it was this guy, a galaxy away and a decade later. All I'm saying is that I can easily understand why she didn't recognize him.

[Darth InSidious]

Whoops!

 

Nor were the characters (apart from T3, HK, and Canderous) in K2. There is lots of room for new characters and still tie it in indirectly to K1, just like K2 does.

True, but again, the story of K2 is very much entirely about Revan

Which makes it pretty cliche, doesn't it?

Yes, but how many viable alternatives are there? Also, just because something is cliched doesn't automatically mean it is necessarily bad...

But from those arguments, can you point me to solutions that decently solve the problems mentioned? I don't remember seeing any...

I could, if I could be bothered to go through every thread and point out the very simple solutions/rebuttals that me and igy kept coming up with, but that takes more time than I really can afford to waste on something as unproductive as this argument

It is very easy to not recognize someone, especially out of context, from over a decade ago. And an Iridonian is probably "just another guy" in the SW universe. Just because she may remember that she gave some guy an order a long time ago, doesn't mean she will automatically remember that it was this guy, a galaxy away and a decade later. All I'm saying is that I can easily understand why she didn't recognize him.

He was the ONLY Iridonian serving anywhere *near* her in the Mandalorian Wars. Also, not recognising someone is one thing, but not remembering them at all - not even recalling there name after as little as 7.5 years (the Jedi Civil War being 2.5 years after Malachor V) is a little unrealistic, IMO.

[Jediphile]

He was the ONLY Iridonian serving anywhere *near* her in the Mandalorian Wars. Also, not recognising someone is one thing, but not remembering them at all - not even recalling there name after as little as 7.5 years (the Jedi Civil War being 2.5 years after Malachor V) is a little unrealistic, IMO.

 

I think the reason for that is that the Exile doesn't WANT to remember. Indeed, the Exile is denial about a lot of things during the entire game. He doesn't remember that he cut himself off from the Force, doesn't want to admit he fought on Dxun, doesn't seem to remember Bao-Dur (but clearly remembers him in vivid details later), doesn't want to reminisce about Malachor with Bao-Dur, doesn't want to look on Nihilus' face, etc.

[Darth InSidious]

@Hawke: Um...that was a joke, right?

 

@Jediphile: Maybe, but even if you dont *want* to remember something, it's always there. Even at the back of your mind, it's always there, and like all memories, a name, for example, will trigger it.

[Prime]

Yes, but how many viable alternatives are there?

Lots, I would say. There are many RPGs that don't go that route, and successfully.

 

Also, just because something is cliched doesn't automatically mean it is necessarily bad...

No, but when the same series uses the same plot point over and over, it does get tired.

 

...waste on something as unproductive as this argument

Then there is no reason to continue.

[Nacommy]

Kotor 3..hmmm Possible...but....Personally if they do plan such an event in the next few years I would like to see Bioware take FULL authority over it....obsidian juss doesn't know how to make rpg's that arn't buggy....and well kotor 3 is technically never gonna happen....REASON: reven and the Exhile go beyond the outerrim out of the starwars universe in terms of what they have covered in books and the encylopidia and history books of starwars....and if you look in the history book of starwars it says that the sith learned from a race that was the sith....NOT HUMAN A RACE THAT IS SITH!!!! a good example would be marko ragnos...the sith lord he was half human and half sith species....anyway the sith species raged war, blah , blah , blah they left beyond the galaxy......so if they made a kotor 3 they would pretty much be writing history in terms of starwars and frankly I dun want obsidian doing that job....they did a ****ty job already with kotor 2 ... i mean there was supposed to be around what 40 - 50 hours of gameplay....but with all the cut content its more like 20-30 hours....so in conclusion if they make a kotor 3 i want eithier of 2 things to happen A: Bioware takes full controll of the development of it or Lucasarts takes full controll with help from bioware....minor help......as far as obsidian goes they can go blow a goat ...Ireally dun see how this game got game of the year award....did they even look at the bug list and cut content before giving out that award.....I mean really....MORROWIND IN MYMIND WAS THE WORST GAME IN TERMS OF BUGS....then kotor 2 comes anlong and raises the bar for ****ty game development...and frankly I dun give a **** if they were delayed when they weregonna release it...at least the wait would have meant a completed game...not some half ass slammed together jusss to make a profit video game......PHEW sorry had to get that out of my system

[Jediphile]

^^

 

Dude, Obsidian had nothing to do with Morrowind. And while TSL has a lot of cut content and some bugs, it's still playable enough to me. Frankly, I find the plot was hurt far more than playabilty was by bugs. At least the game has never crashed on me or had more bugs than I could fix with a reload or two, which goes for lots and lots of games.

 

Besides, to be fair, you really have to consider the development schedule for the game. Obsidian wrote the entire game in less than a year, and they even had two months cut from that development cycle. That they were able to release a playable game at all is a remarkable achievement in itself. I'd trust them with KotOR3 any day of the week, IF they are given a realistic development schedule from Lucasarts. But then I would have that condition with any developer. And plotwise I actually liked TSL better than KotOR. It only comes second because of all the content that was cut, and which hurt the plot IMHO.

 

And welcome to the forums.