Why did the Mandalorians declared war?? [spoiler]

[Grey Master]

First, I would like to thank the staff for helping me with my thread problem,

I'm very grateful.

Second, My question(please, if this thread has already been made, inform

me) Why did the Mandalorians started the war??

I know what you are going to say: "This guy has doesn't have a clue of

what's going on, does he?"

What I mean is what really motivated the war, my guess is that Kreia

contacted the Mandalorians ans influenced them to start the War.

As was said by Canderous Ordo: "The Sith approched us with a proposition,

to fight a war that will be remenbered for centuries."

Kreia must have approched them as Darth Traya and talked to Mandalore

and planned it.

Why??, because maybe she wanted Revan to follow the path of war,

which will later take him to the Dark Side and become a Sith Lord, and

then Revan would have been strong enough to reshape the galaxy, much

like Anakin Skywalker and Jacen Solo.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter. (Feel free to correct me)

[Negative Sun]

That sounds a bit too much like something Darth Sidious would do, I don't think Kreia was planning THAT far ahead, but then again, the Sith are unpredictable, and Darth Revan and the Exile were spawned because of the Mandalorian Wars, and she also said the Republic was a stagnant beast that had remained unchallenged for too long...

 

I also don't think it took much to nudge the Mandalorians into a war though, they were eager for it anyways, maybe all was needed was some Dark Side influence indeed...

 

Good thread IMO

[Anakin Skywalker]

First, I would like to thank the staff for helping me with my thread problem,

I'm very grateful.

Second, My question(please, if this thread has already been made, inform

me) Why did the Mandalorians started the war??

I know what you are going to say: "This guy has doesn't have a clue of

what's going on, does he?"

What I mean is what really motivated the war, my guess is that Kreia

contacted the Mandalorians ans influenced them to start the War.

As was said by Canderous Ordo: "The Sith approched us with a proposition,

to fight a war that will be remenbered for centuries."

Kreia must have approched them as Darth Traya and talked to Mandalore

and planned it.

Why??, because maybe she wanted Revan to follow the path of war,

which will later take him to the Dark Side and become a Sith Lord, and

then Revan would have been strong enough to reshape the galaxy, much

like Anakin Skywalker and Jacen Solo.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter. (Feel free to correct me)

 

Kreia was still a Jedi Historian at the time the Mandalorian Wars started, and was spawned as Darth Traya at the battle of Malachor V. What I believe to have happened, Exar Kun forsaw that he would lose the war and his Mandalorian allies would die. So, he told them to recruit more and then when the time was right, make a new batch of warriors and start a war with the Republic. And when a new Sith Lord arised, he would make sure that that Sith Lord would make sure the Mandalorians would be remembered, and also another part of the Empire would belong to them.

[Mace MacLeod]

IIRC, according to the comics, it was Exar Kun who convinced the Mandalorians to side with the Sith. He sent his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma to make contact, and after Ulic defeated the present Mandalore, he was able to convince the Mandalorians to join his assault and war of conquest against the Republic.

 

IIRC...

[Grey Master]

Errr...... Iwas talking about the Mandalorian Wars, not the Sith War.

[Rabish Bini]

I thought that the True Sith goaded the Mandalorians into a fight. I read somewhere that the Mandalorians were running from the True Sith.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Darth Reader, who were you talking about, if you read my post it is talking about whom I think corrupted the Mandalorians, and forced them into battle.... which was Mandalore, whom was under the influence of Exar Kun's spirit...

[Rabish Bini]

Like my other post said, wasn't that the True Sith who corrupted them?

[The Architect]

Even though cut content is not canon, Mandalore says this to Visas on the Ravager:

 

*DSF Revan*

 

Mandalore: "You sound like Revan, at the end. Do you know what she told me, as I lay dying on the outer rim? That the Mandalorian Wars were our doom. That we had been deceived, that it had never been our decision to wage war on the Republic. Revan said the Mandalorians didn't invade the Republic's space because it was our choice. We were tricked; our entire people sacrificed as pawns, and never knew it! She said there was a war coming, that it was waiting in the unknown regions, in the dark, waiting for us to destroy each other."

 

Visas: "A war? This war?"

 

Mandalore: "No, not this one. Another one, more terrible, against an evil we couldn't begin to comprehend. A war of belief that had been fought for thousands of years. Revan went off to fight it..."

 

Visas: "... and left you here."

 

Mandalore: "Revan was one of the greatest military leaders in the galaxy. In history. She had no use for a people who had already been beaten once. She said the time of the Mandalorians was over. The Mandalorian wars had killed us. And she laughed."

 

Visas: "And that is what burns in your heart, and that is why clan Ordo was reborn; to prove Revan wrong."

 

Mandalore, "No, not Revan."

 

This is a very interesting piece of dialogue, don't you think?

[Balderdash]

IIRC, according to the comics, it was Exar Kun who convinced the Mandalorians to side with the Sith. He sent his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma to make contact, and after Ulic defeated the present Mandalore, he was able to convince the Mandalorians to join his assault and war of conquest against the Republic.

 

IIRC...

Almost right.

 

The Sith in the Sith War, in the TotJ comics, didn't actually approach the Mandalorians; they didn't even consider them initially. The Mandalorians attacked the Empress Teta system, which was under the dominion of the Krath, and Ulic defeated Mandalore (referred to as the Indomitable) in single combat. The Mandalorians then pledged themselves to Ulic, who in turn was apprenticed to Exar Kun.

 

After Mandalore was killed by beasts on Dxun, and Exar Kun was defeated, a new Mandalore (the Ultimate) rose, and they went into hiding. Well, not hiding exactly. But they retreated to specific corners of the galaxy. This is the same Mandalore who went on to lead them in the Mandalorian Wars:

 

 

We don't have any point of reference to make an educated guess about exactly why they attacked, or which faction of the Sith Canderous was referring to in K1, but it would indeed seem that it was probably connected to Kreia's cryptic references to the 'True Sith' (possibly the remnants of the original Sith Empire). The Mandalorians, honor bound as they are, would have felt the need to redeem themselves for their failure to conquer Onderon and the Republic in the Sith War.

[Grey Master]

What I say is that probably Mandalore the Ultimate was approached by Darth Traya,

and promised him( like she promised Hanharr and Canderous in TSL, waht the character desired most) that if he entered war with the Republic, they would win,

feeding false promise and hope to Mandalore, because she knew that the attacks will lure some jedi(including Revan) to join the war, and will eventually turn them to the dark side. (like Palpatine did for Anakin) "History always repeats itself"

[Balderdash]

Why do you think she would have done that, though? Just to destroy the Jedi? That doesn't seem like a very Kreia thing to do, to me.

[Grey Master]

NO! Maybe Kreia wanted Revan to reach his full potential, and she knew that it only

would happen if Revan fell to the Dark Side, and to make the Republic a new regime,

because war ins't just violence, it reaches another goal, in this case, to rebuilt the Republic from the ashes into somethig stronger and to convert Jedi.

[SilentScope001]

Remember that Revan returned to Kreia as her final master...Revan learnt everything he wanted to learn from the Jedi Order, except how to leave it...

 

Prehaps, Kreia, along with Revan, manlipuated the Mandalorians to declare war, so that Revan would have an "excuse" to leave the Jedi Order along with thousands of other Jedi, so that Revan could create his Sith Order and then take over the galaxy to prepare it for war against the True Sith.

[Grey Master]

As I stated earlier , Kreia was the mastermind behind the war, and that Revan, along with the Jedi were played into getting involved.

[Fuu]

MACH where are you when we need you!!?!?!?!?!?!

 

If you haven't played all the way through TSL (?!?!?! dannnnng!) you should not read the following.

 

 

Keria's fall didnt start until well into the Mandalorian wars (She fell in love with general Ysanis & gave birth to Handmaiden, causing her to be exiled from the order.). Keria was Reborn as Traya only after the war had ended. She traveled with her apprentices to Malachor 5 and discovered the unholy force wound there (along with the ancient sith ruins), which led her to a massive amount of Sith knowledge and her new title of Darth Traya.

 

 

How could she mastermind a war when she was light side to begin with? The events of the war caused her fall.

 

F

[Grey Master]

Remember what she said to Disciple???

"What do Jedi see, only what I allow them to see."

So maybe she had already fallen, but not that deep, but when the Jedi Council threw

her out, she completly lost it and fell to the Dark Side COMPLETELY!!

[Fuu]

You have to go off the info you're given. It wont become "real" just because you like the idea.

 

 

 

A light side character has no motivation to plan a huge war. Kreias fall was directly related to the war for the reasons already stated. Jedi need a motivator to push them on the path to the dark side. Love, revenge, something like that. Before meeting Ysanis Kreia had no such motivation. Besides, this is not the kind of thing that can be planned by a "green" sith. You need a massive amount of Sith knowledge to do something of that scope (Read: Palpatine was already a Sith Lord(Master? crap its been a while, I know he wasnt "green" in the sith world.) at the start of Ep1), and where would a JEDI get that kind of info? They are prohibited from learning the way of the Sith.

 

When she said that she was talking about her ability to make herself invisible to Jedi using the force. She only gained this ability as a direct result of going to Malachor AFTER the war ended. She wasn't even Exiled until sometimes late in the war, when the council discovered that she had given birth!

 

 

All of the references in the game (and those I have gathered by discussing the topic with knowledgeable people) lead me to believe that the "True Sith" who tricked the Mandalorians exist somewhere beyond the Outer Rim.

 

 

 

{Edit: Meh}

[SilentScope001]

Actually, Kreia is not Aderran Kae. Sorry. I speculate that's cut content (due to the fact that it seems a bit lame for Kreia to say, "I am your mother!". Cut content is not canon. And hey, they may reveal in the KOTOR series that this female person named Kraay is actually Kreia.

[Grey Master]

I'm sorry, I got carried out with the subject and didn't mean to press the matter to

the extreme. As someone said " If you want to be heard, you have to listen first."

Again, I apology to Fuu and to everybody if I was so bossy.

[Fuu]

^ Don't worry about it, I'm not in the best mood anyway.

 

Actually, Kreia is not Aderran Kae. Sorry. I speculate that's cut content (due to the fact that it seems a bit lame for Kreia to say, "I am your mother!". Cut content is not canon. And hey, they may reveal in the KOTOR series that this female person named Kraay is actually Kreia.

 

Meh, I could let my exploring bleed in a tad (Honestly, I've done a lot of dialogue reading, so its sometimes easy to do that) However, much of what I said is still valid. It seems a stretch to think that she isn’t IMO. Her name sounds too much like a cross between Kae & Traya. Besides, wasn't most of the content cut because of time constraints (as opposed to GL disagreeing with where the writers took her story) I don’t really remember her actually using that sentence in what I read......... agreed its parallel to another more famous storyline, but you would think this sort of thing happens more than once every 4-5 thousand years. Well, in any case if the big man did "disagree" would he allow the restoration project to happen? I wouldn’t think they could do it without him knowing since its all licensed content (I would imagine this extends to the cut content, they did write it on his time to begin with.)

 

 

F

[Common Thug]

Wait.

Why did the mandalorians declare war on the republic?

I always thought it was because of what Canderous said in KOTOR 1:

 

"...the sith came to us with an offer we couldn't refuse. The glory of battle, war, and death..."

 

I was always under the impression that the "true sith" forced them to fight.

[SilentScope001]

^ Don't worry about it, I'm not in the best mood anyway.

 

 

 

Meh, I could let my exploring bleed in a tad (Honestly, I've done a lot of dialogue reading, so its sometimes easy to do that) However, much of what I said is still valid. It seems a stretch to think that she isn’t IMO. Her name sounds too much like a cross between Kae & Traya. Besides, wasn't most of the content cut because of time constraints (as opposed to GL disagreeing with where the writers took her story) I don’t really remember her actually using that sentence in what I read......... agreed its parallel to another more famous storyline, but you would think this sort of thing happens more than once every 4-5 thousand years. Well, in any case if the big man did "disagree" would he allow the restoration project to happen? I wouldn’t think they could do it without him knowing since its all licensed content (I would imagine this extends to the cut content, they did write it on his time to begin with.)

 

 

F

 

 

I mean, that it proberly was intended for people to find out Kreia is Kae but they cut it out because it was lame, before the coding begins. It doesn't matter. The KOTOR Comic Book Series is already presenting a possible Kreia...her name is Kraay. Kraay sounds very, very similar Kreia, and also seems manlipuate. Kae...she sounds to me like a hippie Jedi.

 

 

I was always under the impression that the "true sith" forced them to fight.

 

Of course it is the likely outcome. But, I would like to enterain other notions. Which is somewhat good in this game, as it expands the potential storylines that could exist. I like games where there is speculation, and no set answer to every little detail. Otherwise, what's the point of playing or talking about it then?

[Canderous_ordo1]

hi there all canderous_ordo here

lets run through it a bit with you frist of all the frist war was with the republic weakend them allot through that battle then after 5 years

the sith noticed the mandalorians then they came to them to be allies so they made a deal to try to defeat the republic then they struck the outer core worlds sneaking in so the republic wouldnet know what was going on till it was too late

the planets that were involed were

telos,crispan system, althir, taris, korraban , onderon ,duxn,malacor 5 the mandalorians had a recruiting drive on many of the republic worlds

 

BUT THE sith came to the mandalorians to make a deal to defeate a worthy foe (republic) the mandalorians took it on

therefore the second mandalorian wars begun

[Fuu]

Okay, since I am detecting the burning embers of a flamewar I'll try to be delicate about this.

 

I mean, that it probably was intended for people to find out Kreia is Kae but they cut it out because it was lame, before the coding began. It doesn't matter.

The KOTOR Comic Book Series is already presenting a possible Kreia...her name is Kraay. Kraay sounds very, very similar Kreia, and also she seems to be manipulative.

Kae...she sounds to me like a hippie Jedi.

 

Forgive me, but I don’t normally read comic books. Since you didn’t initially include this information in your "discussion" (ie your earlier response to my post) I’m finding this statement a bit awkward.

 

To say they cut the idea “before coding (you’ve already said you're speculating on this, so please don’t claim to know how much coding was done on this part of the storyline.)” because the premise is "lame" is a personal opinion < seemed to work well for GL before>. Unless you claim to have inside information I suggest you state it as such. Wouldn’t want to mislead any newbies.

 

You say a "possible" Kreia, but until darkhorse actually prints something stating that this character is the same person it isn’t EU (EU doesn’t exactly equal cannon mind you!), its opinion.

 

All of this aside, I had already stated <which you later re-stated> the answer to Gray Master’s/Common Thug's question. My answer wasn't negated by the “Kreia” discussion, and it was based on the information I gathered playing the game.

 

Aight I'm done hijacking the thread now.