Darth Nihilus VS Darth Sion

[SilentScope001]

That does make sense, actually, except perhaps that Vash sacrifices herself to save the exile, and Sion knows that, meaning that he knows the exile is alive. That presents a problem, since he perceives the exile as a jedi, and he turns on Nihilus only because he presumes all the jedi to be dead.

 

To me, Sion believes that The Exile is the only Jedi that mattered. He is a student from Kreia, and according to some cut content, Kreia was exiled because she wanted to spare The Exile.

 

All the other Jedi are falling to the DS, or pose no threat. But The Exile is the one that can threaten and destroy the Sith. He really is the Last of the Jedi...Vash lost pacisfism, Vrook lost compassion, and Kavar lost the ability to share knoweldge. Zek-Kel knows about the failures of the Jedi, but decided to do nothing and instead ran. The Exile is the only one that can reform the Jedi Order, and that is why The Exile must be destroyed...

 

Now you mention it, Sion wouldn't really care about the death of Vash, but only the death of The Exile.

[Rockstar]

yes that is true but Darth Sion may have believed that Vash was the last TRUE Jedi (meaning he dind't know there were any more until he encountered her) The exile is not believed as a jedi because they are.. exiled! lol

 

well i think that sticking it at the end of the koresant vash patch would be good. Between the scene where you leave the planet and the scene where your ship docks to the next planet is where we should see it.

 

Either that or at the end of Dantooine

[SilentScope001]

Never thought Sion woudl consider Vash as last of the Jedi, and I doubt it. At the last battle between Sion and you, Sion said, "I will see the Last of the Jedi fall to my feet at last." So Sion obivously saw The Exile as the Last of the Jedi, even when the Jedi Order 'exiled' him.

 

It's like Bao-Dur said, the Jedi title stick with you no matter what.

 

But anything that can restore that scene may be good. At least something that could make some sort of sense...

 

Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.

[jonathan7]

Never thought Sion woudl consider Vash as last of the Jedi, and I doubt it. At the last battle between Sion and you, Sion said, "I will see the Last of the Jedi fall to my feet at last." So Sion obivously saw The Exile as the Last of the Jedi, even when the Jedi Order 'exiled' him.

 

It's like Bao-Dur said, the Jedi title stick with you no matter what.

 

But anything that can restore that scene may be good. At least something that could make some sort of sense...

 

Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.

 

Good call my young Padawan, or should I say Master? May put in a mod request in HL.

[Jediphile]

Actually, I wonder if you could put it RIGHT AFTER the Peragus cutscene where Peragus explodes. Why? Well, Peragus explodes, and the Ebon Hawk is not expected to surivie such an explosion, and since the Ebon Hawk has The Exile on it...Sion is one happy little person, since he either killed The Exile...or The Exile killed himself (by destroying Peragus). Sion then boards Nihlius' ship and boast to him that he has won...It would also be a nice entrance to Darth Nihlius as well, introducing him right after Peragus, and starting him off as a scary being. First impressions are always good.

 

I think that is too early in the plot, because that happens before Nihilus senses the exile and sends out Visas to find him. I don't think Sion can break the alliance with Nihilus until after that.

 

The real problem is that to have the scene, you do need the genoharadan plot back, yet there is no way to guarantee that the player plays through Nar Shaddaa before Korriban. But I would accept a change to force, even if it means "railroading" the game plot a little. You could have parts of the files T3 stole from Atris be corrupted so that the locations of the masters are unknown, except that Zez-Kai Ell is on Nar Shaddaa. Once the Exile is then done with Nar Shaddaa, T3 has conveniently restored the remaining files just in time to continue the quest. Yes, it's strained, but I would accept it. After all, the game is pretty linear anyway...

[jonathan7]

I think that is too early in the plot, because that happens before Nihilus senses the exile and sends out Visas to find him. I don't think Sion can break the alliance with Nihilus until after that.

 

Hmmm, maybe a little early, but I also think its a cool place to have it if it were possible to remove the mention of the smugglers moon. As Sion as Nihilus were seeking out the 'Last of the Jedi' they just seek to destroy them, they don't really see any of the remaining Jedi as a threat. But for the second Nihilus cut scene when he sends out Visas it means he has sensed a disturbance in the force and so however unlikely and small this threat to him could be he sends out Visas to look into it; and obviously thats the exile.

[SilentScope001]

But for the second Nihilus cut scene when he sends out Visas it means he has sensed a disturbance in the force and so however unlikely and small this threat to him could be he sends out Visas to look into it; and obviously thats the exile.

 

You can retcon the cutscene to say that Nihlius finds out The Exile is actually alive...or that Nihlius never knew anything of the Exile and that Sion is just boasting about wiping out the Jedi Order without actually going into specifics.

 

It may be too early, giving away too many plot points, but then again, many people already know what is happening (the game being quite old, and the "Traya" twist is not really a twist), and to me, it seems the most logical place without having to add in new events, railroading the player, or scripting events where the Exile get "killed off".

[Titanius Anglesmith]

If it is somehow included, then I think the place SilentScope suggested is the most fitting. It may be a little early, but there aren't too many places in the game where it would fit.

[jonathan7]

You can retcon the cutscene to say that Nihlius finds out The Exile is actually alive...or that Nihlius never knew anything of the Exile and that Sion is just boasting about wiping out the Jedi Order without actually going into specifics.

 

It may be too early, giving away too many plot points, but then again, many people already know what is happening (the game being quite old, and the "Traya" twist is not really a twist), and to me, it seems the most logical place without having to add in new events, railroading the player, or scripting events where the Exile get "killed off".

 

Well, you kind of know that Kreia was once Traya anyways, and if the Sion vs Nihilus scene occurs if anyone hadnt played TSL before they would be like who is Darth Traya, and when "Kreia's fall" is played they would be like aahhh now I get it. But for anyone else playing the game, they obviously already know.

[Rockstar]

There is NO ruining the Traya twist because the twist is that she is STILL Darth Traya. We learn very early that she trained Darth Sion (in their battle) and if you talk to your characters like you are meant to you find that she was once a Sithlord and was exiled by them. To both her apprentises she was, and still is, aquanted to them as Darth Traya.

 

I think Korraban is too early for their alliance to terminate and we should have it after the Council's reunion. No matter where you put the cutscene, their speech could still reflect the past events with Vash.

 

Another suggestion could be after you defeat Atris. May you kill her or redeem her she is the last REAL Jedi and if Sion was already near the Ravage(which is just above Telos preparing for assault). Perhaps their strength as Sithlords would allow them to sense the events that Atris was either killed or no longer a sith OR a jedi (when you redeem her she is just a mental wreck)

 

Here the order really is destroyed and all that Sion needs to do now is kill the Exile. he no longer needs Darth Nihilus and hense the alliance falls.

 

However, i still believe after Dantooine is the best place as it makes as much sense with Sion killing Vash on Korriban and later meets up with Nihilus. It is a feel good place to put it and makes a build up for both Sithlords

[Jediphile]

The real problem is that no matter what, Sion will find out that the Exile is still alive on Korriban, but since there is no way to determine whether that is played before or after Nar Shaddaa (or M4-78, if that is ever restored), you really can't fit it nicely into the plot.

 

You do get the "Kreia's fall" scene early, but not until you reach Telos station, which is where Nihilus will sense the exile and send out Visas. Of course, we could argue that Nihilus merely senses the exile due to the special connection between them, but I don't think that would be clear - of course the person he senses must be a jedi, and so he can just tell Sion, "nope, there is still one jedi out there."

 

I suppose if the Vash scene is restored in a way that leaves Sion with the impression that both Vash and Exile are dead, then it solves the problem, as the scene could then trigger after Sion thinks the exile dead on either Nar Shaddaa or M4-78.

[SilentScope001]

You do get the "Kreia's fall" scene early, but not until you reach Telos station, which is where Nihilus will sense the exile and send out Visas.

 

Actually, there are 2 ways you get that Nihilus cutscene:

1. Get extreme alignment. High DS or High LS allows Visas to hear you.

2. Find 3 out of the 4 Jedi Masters.

 

So, theoritcally, your idea won't work if I am a Grey Jedi and I complete 3 planets, including Korriban. Then Nihlius finds Visas, right after Sion learns that I am alive...

 

Of course, we could argue that Nihilus merely senses the exile due to the special connection between them, but I don't think that would be clear - of course the person he senses must be a jedi, and so he can just tell Sion, "nope, there is still one jedi out there."

 

What if that is what Nihlius said? Obivously, Nihlius is happy at the taunting of Sion that way, and that could explain why Sion left...to go and find the Exile.

 

But I thought it was clear Visas was able to sense The Exile due to the Exile's extereme alignment, LS or DS, and that is why Nihilus sent Visas out.

 

The scene after Peragus is the only one that makes sense without having to script anything much. And there are so many retcons that can occur so that everything would be doing fine.

[Jediphile]

Actually, there are 2 ways you get that Nihilus cutscene:

1. Get extreme alignment. High DS or High LS allows Visas to hear you.

2. Find 3 out of the 4 Jedi Masters.

 

So, theoritcally, your idea won't work if I am a Grey Jedi and I complete 3 planets, including Korriban. Then Nihlius finds Visas, right after Sion learns that I am alive...

 

So they both know that the exile is alive instead of just one of them... So what?

 

The problem lies with putting the cutscene at a point in the plot when Sion believes the exile to be dead and Nihilus having no reason to doubt him.

 

What if that is what Nihlius said? Obivously, Nihlius is happy at the taunting of Sion that way, and that could explain why Sion left...to go and find the Exile.

 

First, I do believe Nihilus sends Visas to find the exile because there is a special connection between them. However, I don't think that would be obvious from the cutscene, and I don't think it should be either, because it unveils the connection between them too soon in the plot.

 

Second, Sion doesn't walk off in order to find the exile, but because the alliance is ended. If Nihilus could have told Sion there is still a jedi left, Sion would not have ended their alliance, methinks.

 

But I thought it was clear Visas was able to sense The Exile due to the Exile's extereme alignment, LS or DS, and that is why Nihilus sent Visas out.

 

True. For Visas, at least.

[Rockstar]

The problem lies with putting the cutscene at a point in the plot when Sion believes the exile to be dead and Nihilus having no reason to doubt him.

 

 

Second, Sion doesn't walk off in order to find the exile, but because the alliance is ended. If Nihilus could have told Sion there is still a jedi left, Sion would not have ended their alliance, methinks.

 

 

 

ok i think that people are thinking far too hard about this lol

 

WHERE does it say that the exile is dead in the cutscene?? There was actually additional dialogue in that scene but it was removed as it did make reference to the exile. Its not important if Nihilus tells Sion to go look for the exile. Actually it works better with Darth Nihilus just letting Sion walk away because it is a stalemate. Do we find Darth Sion following us again in the game after here? NO! We run into him twice 1) at Malacore V and 2) either before or after Narshada at Korriban. Even still, if we played it as Nihilus correcting Sion and telling him that the exile is still alive then he would probably be waiting as he had no clue where the exile is.

 

Is there a scene in Narshadda where the exile is presumed dead?

 

I definately agree now that this scene should be after the escape from Korriban with the Vash Mod. So that Vash pushed the exile away and was killed by Darth Sion (who cannot be defeated with Korriban running through him). This scene shows how powerful Darth Sion is by taking out a Jedi Master. You have now run to your ship and taken off to your next planet NOW with no further ado please click the link on the top of the page and watch the cutscene. Done? Ok now imagine your ship docking at the next planet. -END- and continue play as normal.

 

Here Darth Sion HAS ended the Jedi Order whom they could not find for so long. He has defeated and killed her and this is a great reason to gloat. He goes to Nihilus as he has killed the LAST jedi, there are no more. He does not need Nihlus' ability to destroy planets. He doesn't need nihilus any more. There is only the exile (who is not a Jedi) and he wants the exile for himself he becomes obsessed with the exile either gender, LS or DS just becaues of what he is and his old master's facination in the exile. With only the exile remaining Darth Sion (with his immortal powers) only has to worry about the one he is interested in and he has the strength to do whatever he wants to him/her.

 

THIS IS PERFECT lol

[Jediphile]

^^

 

You're completely missing a couple of rather significant points in the plot.

 

1. Sion and Nihilus know nothing of the surviving jedi masters.

 

2. They think the exile is the last jedi (because Atris leaked information about the exile to them to make him a target).

 

3. Conclusion: Nihilus and, especially, Sion hunt the exile, not the jedi masters. As Bao-Dur says, the stigma of being a jedi sticks to the exile whether it's true or not, because Nihilus and Sion consider the exile to be jedi and won't be told otherwise. That's why Sion is hunting Exile before and on Peragus. If they don't consider the exile to be a jedi, then the entire plot in TSL falls apart.

 

And yes, there was originally a bit on Nar Shaddaa where the exile is presumably killed in an explosion set by the Genoharadan, but that too is cut content. I don't remember if TSLRP will restore it. It left everyone thinking the exile is dead, including the exile's companions. Sion thought so too, which is why he thinks the jedi are extinct and breaks the alliance with Nihilus.

[SilentScope001]

Well, okay, you may get the point. I usually assume that Sion and Nihlius both believe that The Exile REALLY is Last of the Jedi, and that once they destroy The Exile, then they win the war...the other Jedi Masters aren't really Jedi anymore, expect for Atris, and she secertly fall to the Dark Side. The Exile thinks himself as not a Jedi, but Sion and Nihlius knows that he is a Jedi.

 

But it's just one possible justification for placing the cutscene in. It may not work, but it seems to me the most likely place to put it without doing any scripting.

 

Then again, maybe it does not need to be restored.

[Rockstar]

Hey

 

I know i'm bringing up a dead thread but with the RP project moving along quite speedily now i was just thinking that there is going to be more content for every single character, including Darth Sion. But no more Darth Nihilus? This guy is the frontman for the game and we definately don't see enough of him. Most importantly we don't see him drain anybody so we don't really understand what happens during the battle with him until after (which sucks...)

 

There has been some debate about this scene and those points are:

1) the force lightning used in conjunction with the drain distorts what is really happening to Sion

2) "The Jedi Order is finished" this is not true. Removing this line makes it work. Sion could still want the alliance ended because he is now sure the exile is the last and wants him for himself (especially now that he realises Kreia is alive).

 

Here are ideas i've seen suggested of where to implement the scene:

- after Peragus (include the original scene as Sion believes the exile to be dead from the explosion and only finds out the exile lives when they meet at korriban)

- on the Ravager (just add a surveilence console into the room before you fight Nihilus and the cutscene triggers, but excludes the opening statement "The Jedi Order is finished." This works well as it allows the player to see the drain ability before the fight and then see how the exile is immune to it)

 

The big question is, who would be able to edit the original scene or make a new one lol. I would but don't know how...

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I like your suggestion about how to reimplement the cutscene. But Sion didn't seemed so surprised to see the Exile on Korriban. Maybe as Visas found him, Sion sensed him too?

 

And it's a real pity that Nihilus isn't going to get better, even a fight divided in more parts (interrupted by cutscenes) would be okay.

[Nikkolas]

Yes, I definitely want it back in the game and canon.

 

It looks awesome too.

[Marauder's Fury]

Looks like a fanmade flick to me.

 

At any rate... attention, people. Sion isn't talking about the eradication of all Jedi in the galaxy, he's just saying "The Jedi Order is destroyed." This can well be used as part of the prologue, with minor modifications. Like Sion having heard about the Exile AFTER this cutscene.

 

I was thinking about such a scene taking place after a restored GenoHaradan part, but beside the problems related to Korriban, there's also Sion saying something along "I did it, not you" to Nihilus. What, was it Sion who hired GenoHaradan to dispose of the Exile?

[DeadYorick]

Well the Nihilus and Sion cutscene doesn't contribute anything to the plot. But it is a kickass cutscene. So yeah

[Ancient Sith]

SCRIPT

 

(Sion approaches Nihilus on his ship)

 

Sion:

 

- The Jedi Order is finished. I did what you, with all your power, you could not do

 

- There is more. Darth Traya lives. You did not kill her, as you presumed

 

- Our alliance is finished. I have no need of you

 

(Sion turns his back and walks away before pausing and replying to Darth Nihilus)

 

- I have never needed you

 

(Sion is drained and falls to the floor. He stands no chance against Nihilus. Sion's body is then rekindled with dark force energy resurrecting him again and forcing him to walk away in defeat (a battle that could not be won on either front!)

 

Why didn't you put all that stuff that Nihilus said when you posted the script?

 

 

Anyway cool cut scene. I wish it were in the game, because I really wanted more Darth Nihilus. Magazine covers, posters, the cover of the damn game...They made it sound like he had a much bigger role. Anyway yes they should have made that cut scene work.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Why didn't you put all that stuff that Nihilus said when you posted the script?

 

 

Because all that Nhilus says is like sharpened teeths scratching a board.

[Nikkolas]

Now you know how Darth Krayt felt.

 

And he's on the brink of death and begging for help.

 

And Nihilus might have very well been answering him but Lord Bane and Andeddu didn't bother to tell him what he said.

 

But so what. Krayt is a pretender and a total insult to the Sith.

[Rockstar]

We've worked on a better scene, check this out!

 

_____________________________________________________________________

*Exile and party enter the room outside the bridge and check computer and visit previous security recordings* --> The following cutscene is triggered

 

Sion Enters the bridge with Nihilus facing away:

 

"Our alliance is finished."

 

(silence)

 

"There is more Darth Traya lives. You did not kill her as you presumed."

 

Nihilus turns to face Sion and replies

 

I no longer have need of you"

 

Nihilus replies

 

"I have never needed you."

 

Nihilus replies

 

*Nihilus draws his lightsaber, followed by Sion, who draws his and force jumps in front of Nihilus. Sion puts Nihilus on the back foot with a couple of flurries but Nihilus force pushes him back and then drains him (Sion is lifted into the air as his life is drained away). Sion falls to the ground dead but his eyes reopen.*

 

OR

 

*Sion ignites his saber and runs at Nihilus but gets drained and falls down (like in the current fan cut scene*

 

Sion gets to his feet and leaves the bridge.

 

FIGHT RESULT: draw. Nihilus is too powerful but at the same time so is Sion in the way he cannot die as the force regenerates within him

 

___________________________________________________________________

 

Lets look at the results? +80% wanted this cutscene or something similar that works better (like i have outlined above)

 

Darth Nihilus has a huge cult following and I just can't understand why team gizka is restoring so much content but over looking a scene which is one of the most demanded scenes that was cut out of the game (which from a non-modders point of view doesn't seem that difficult relative to the other feats TSLRP members are capable of).

 

Not only that, it is another scene for Darth Sion fans (like myself ) This scene makes Sion look like a bad ass for telling Nihilus he doesn't need him any more, and more importantly, shows Nihilus actually use his power... this actually lets us understand what is happening when we defeat Nihilus!!

 

Could other people here plea with me to either get the team to reconsider adding this scene or for someone out there to create a mod after the RP is out. I would if I had the skills because this scene helps Nihilus not seem like such a waste of a character

 

Thanks for reading