Lathain Valtiel Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 That depends on what you consider a sacrifice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 7, 2007 Author Share Posted June 7, 2007 That depends on what you consider a sacrifice... I'm not asking hybrids to be nerfed to non-existence. I just want gunners that stick to gunning be better with guns than hybrids who don't have as much 'experience' with guns as the gunners do. There shouldn't be a reason for a gunner to be overwhelmed by a hybrid unless ofcourse they're of equal skill blablabla and so on. Same goes for Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Its Kyle!!!! I still use our saber sound mix and so do a few others! And good suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Kelasheski Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Hey JR, looooong time no "see." I'm happy to hear that the sound mod is still being used, and I never did post my last update, the one with a new Healing sound effect. It has a completely natural sound to it that works in ANY environment. I'd post it now, but unfortunately I'm currently stuck with a dialup connection. Yes, that's right, "dialup," and its smell is stinkier than a whole pile of my daughter's diapers. I'm hoping that within a month or so I'll be at a location that allows for connections faster than 1 byte per minute. :-D But back to the topic... The beauty of the Infiltration system, and keep in mind, it only dealt with guns, was that each weapon had its own real-life characteristics. While it's not all that unusual to find players who use different weapons, they tend to stick to their favorite three. The reason for this is upfront, as the game's challenging enough just trying to master one weapon, but three or more? I'd imagine that it could be just as challenging for OJPE. Small arms combat should be just as physically challenging to the player as OJPE's saber system is. The last time I played OJPE, my hand and arms were just as tuckered out as the first time I tried playing it, and the same holds true for Infiltration. There's so many factors to juggle, and seeking out cover and concealment while having to move one's arms/weapon to aim and recover from weapon recoil makes for a physically demanding experience that is extremely satisfying if one's managing it succesfully. The point of me spelling the above out here is that I strongly feel that such a system would naturally keep nerfing behaviors at bay. To me, it wouldn't be an issue if one person wanted to use a saber and then maybe utilize a blaster later on. Said players are going to be better at one than the other, and all without having to use cheap shots to make it feel proper. Something more to chew on... Goodnight all. Kyle June 11, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Yeah, I'm on dial up too. I'm looking into upgrading to wireless broadband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 Ontopic: I'm going to suggest two things: O: Listen to Kyle. You can not have it all. A jedi can not have it all, a gunner can not have it all and a hybrid certainly can't have it all without having some of his stuff go down the toilet. I've been testing a lot lately and I'm admitting that I might've overreacted; the latest versions just get better and better. O: I'm going to make a really big suggestion now that might change the way this game is played, and I'm hoping you all will have an open mind for it (it might deserve it's own thread but we'll talk about that later). Runspeed. Yeah, I've suggested it before but just dropped it because it seemed fine after the gunners got introduced. Now however I'm not so sure. I think the runspeed we have now is a slightly lowered form of the base runspeed, correct? If so, I really think we should try just lowering it for everyone. Maybe just slightly to try it out and see if it improves the general gameplay in terms of reducing some of the chaos we have now. Anyway like most of my current posts I'm going to try and cut right to the point. Benefits: -Less chaotic gameplay -Less room for bunnyhopping -More thought out and tactical gameplay -Forcepowers and Force sprinting become much more important -Gives gunners more time to think and to shoot at incoming jedi -Forces Jedi to walk more and use their wits instead of just tanking through gunfire like nothing and swinging around wildly -Will make saber dueling more fun and realistic due to lowered walking speed ^ Is just off the top of my head, I'm sure we could think of many others just like this. The main reason for me is changing the way OJP 'feels'. We're trying to steer away from the whole base-y quake 3 spamfest but we still keep holding on to some of the foundations of it, like the current runspeed and the ability to bunnyhop. Can't see any cons to it, other than that we might be dissapointing the fanbase that actually WANTS another unrealtournament/quake 3 mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Yeah I'm for lowering the running/walking speed a bit too. I don't want to lower it to the point were its boring for Q3 style players, but I do think our battles look a bit too chaotic at the moment and lowered speed would clean it up a bit. While it might make dodging sabers a bit tougher, it would make jedi easier to hit when they run and give gunners a bit more time to get up after being pushed over, though pull may have to be nerfed a bit because that would be very powerful in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 We've gone through extensive testing and talking about this yesterday and we've come to these conclusions: Running speed is best at 210 Walking speed is best at 190-200 The critical DP threshold needs to be lowered. I was a jedi with 20 points and my DP was already flashing red at 34! Too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Critical DP should be at 20, it's the double of critical FP, and it's an ammount which allows you to block 1 more swing, but not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanqexe Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Agreed on lowering crit DP to 20, esp. since we start out with ~ 50+ DP. Also, saber throw isn't all that great as it is right now and is an underused force skill. Perhaps we should increase the speed of the throw with each level to make it much more useful; right now it just doesn't feel like something that's being tossed with lethality in mind and it just looks kinda...wimpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Agreed on lowering crit DP to 20, esp. since we start out with ~ 50+ DP. Also, saber throw isn't all that great as it is right now and is an underused force skill. Perhaps we should increase the speed of the throw with each level to make it much more useful; right now it just doesn't feel like something that's being tossed with lethality in mind and it just looks kinda...wimpy. /Agree I find that it does instakill running people when thrown from behind... To be honest I'd like to see the amount of spinning it does increase too, if even just for visuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 The problem is that a realistic saber throw would mean instakill, and this makes obvious balance problems... But seeing a saber cut someone for 40 damage makes me sick... Maybe it should do same damage as a saber swing, but to balance it, it should be a very expensive skill, like grip or lightning, and have very short range, and also nerf the saber pull back (see below). Also, something about pulling saber backs to you, would it be possible to make force pull necessary to do it? Like... make that the player has to target his saber hilt, and press pull, if he is at the right range (depending on force pull level), the saber is successfully pulled, otherwise nothing happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I think that Force Pull might already be a requirement to pull the saber back. I don't remember. Actually I've been thinking that we might want to make the Saber Throw be extremely hard to Dodge (just like the sniper rifle) but pretty easy to saber block. This would make it useless in saber combat but useful (but risky) in jedi vs gunner combat. Finally, the reason why the DP critical is so high is because that's the cost of one body Dodge. Realistically, I think we need to remove the movement slow down for critical DP. All it does it prevent strategic withdraws and speeds up the battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Running speed is best at 210 Walking speed is best at 190-200 Hmm, we should do more tests on that and make it default if it works well. What are the cvars for that? Actually I've been thinking that we might want to make the Saber Throw be extremely hard to Dodge (just like the sniper rifle) but pretty easy to saber block. This would make it useless in saber combat but useful (but risky) in jedi vs gunner combat. Agreed. Finally, the reason why the DP critical is so high is because that's the cost of one body Dodge. Realistically, I think we need to remove the movement slow down for critical DP. All it does it prevent strategic withdraws and speeds up the battles. Stretegic withdrawals are annoying as heck in a duel. I don't the slower speed is one of the few things that helps stop people from just running away when their losing. I'm not in favor of losing it, especially now that speed is so easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDie Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 g_speed is the cvar. I agree with Razor with saber throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Someone please bug ticket the saber throw then so I'll remember to do it. As for running during a duel, it's a completely legit tactic. As long as their FP holds out, they should be able to stay in the fight if they're smart. If the problem is something with the regen rates (or with meditate) that can be dealt with as a seperate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaldy Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I agree with Hocks. If you want to run away right now, there are enough tools to do so even if you are in critical dodge points with lowered speed. It should be difficult to run away, not a cake walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 I've always been against limiting people like that, for example running away. Sure it's still part of your gut ripped out when you've fought your opponent for like 5 minutes and then you've almost got him and he runs away. With the current changes to Force powers and Force Speed we shouldn't need the lowered critical threshold though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaldy Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I've always been against limiting people like that, for example running away. Sure it's still part of your gut ripped out when you've fought your opponent for like 5 minutes and then you've almost got him and he runs away. With the current changes to Force powers and Force Speed we shouldn't need the lowered critical threshold though You can already run away with the current speed of critical dodge points. Why make it easier? I don't see the point in this. That's why the changes were implemented to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Since we fixed bunny hopping, this isn't needed anymore. If they decide to run, they either: 1. Turn around and are vulnerable to Force Powers. 2. Move backwards and don't move as quickly as the attacker who's running forward. My problem is that your movement speed suddenly drops and you get trapped (even if you're staying and fighting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 And if we get the runspeed changes in, it's really much harder to go full-on assault against a gunner without slowing down too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 No, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaldy Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Well, my opinions might change if speed is altered. But until then, my opinion stays the same on the lowered speed of critical dodge points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxstate Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 I hope we'll get to try the new speed changes in the next release as something *official*. I've currently changed g_speed indefinetly on my own server and we've gotten used to it and are enjoying it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaman Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I usually use g_speed 225 when I play against bots. (As well as g_gravity 880, because I think we fall too slowly with 800, but it's not a must). Although, I got a question, I'm surprised that walking has a speed of 190-200... I thought it was like half of the running speed. Or maybe I misunderstood what you said, Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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