Sexist Education System

[GarfieldJL]

No I'm not referring to girls being discriminated against, I'm referring to boys being discriminated against. Classes are being tailored in a way that hurts boys, while catering to most girls' strengths. While there are some teachers and schools out there trying to help boys catch up, I imagine they'll soon be facing lawsuits from the feminist movement.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/

[Totenkopf]

Perhaps this is a good reason to keep the sexes seperated during the school day. Fewer distractions and more flexibility for the teacher in crafting teaching strategies that play to each gender's strengths and weaknesses, rather than taking a one size fits all bureaucratic track. Besides, it's not like the kids won't socialize after school hours anyway.

[True_Avery]

Agreed. Why don't we have gender seperate schools? Or at least Gender Seperate classes? Although, personally, I don't know what I would do if I had been given the option to go to an all girls school oposed to a mixed. The majority, if not all, my friends in school were guys. But, all in all, I think I would have taken the offer and just hanged out with the tomboys. And if it was a school with an ok uniform, even better.

 

I was in a special education class in middle school for kids who had trouble learning. It was me, 4 or 5 other girls, and then 40 boys. Does that tell you anything?

 

The two gender's learn differently I have found. Not saying that one gender is slower than the other, but they just learn differently because they are wired differently. Some of the smartest people I have met have been male, but at the same time the majority of people I saw failing classes happened to be the guys. Girls were always top of class at my schools, and the guys were always below in the failing area.

 

Not sure if this is the fault of the education system, parents, or society though. Most likely a mix of all, because years and years ago it was the girls that had the problem so it may not actually be genetics or how the brain works, but how the world views the genders as a whole. The girls in my classes understood that to get ahead in life, you have to be smart so they worked their pretty little butts off. But the guys... the majority of guys I saw failing classes assumed that they could get away with living off of sports, doing something physical, or something else not involving an education. Most just saw education as unimportant. I believe that to be a failure of society and parents, not gender.

[PoiuyWired]

To be fair, girls do develop faster, and it is more obvious at the younger age. So there is a difference. Well, at least there is a difference up til half way thru high school mostly.

 

But actually this might not be too big of a problem, depending on how you organize the classes. I have found that groups of mixed gender kids do work well together, and the different thinking patterns does help both gender in terms of problem solving and such.

 

In short, yes there is a difference. But things can be done to benefit from such differences, and in general it seems that co-ed school is still better.

[GarfieldJL]

To be fair, girls do develop faster, and it is more obvious at the younger age. So there is a difference. Well, at least there is a difference up til half way thru high school mostly.

 

But actually this might not be too big of a problem, depending on how you organize the classes. I have found that groups of mixed gender kids do work well together, and the different thinking patterns does help both gender in terms of problem solving and such.

 

In short, yes there is a difference. But things can be done to benefit from such differences, and in general it seems that co-ed school is still better.

 

 

Guys develop slower in some areas, this is true, however learning disabilities are being over diagnosed now, because classes are catering to the learning styles of girls. The loss of recess, being stuck in a seat all day, girls can handle it better than guys can. Seperating genders probably won't help, because either one gender or the other will end up with access to better learning materials, probably the girls will get the more up to date learning materials.

 

When this issue was first brought up, the feminist movement cried foul, saying it's just girls are now able to show their potential and people are sexist to say the classrooms are catering to girls.

[JediMaster12]

Whenever I see threads like these I feel like the oddball out. In my high school experience and in lower grades the guys were pretty good and top of the class. The exception was in elementary school with a kid who did have trouble learning but I was paired with him and helped. Needless to say, he did a lot better in school and did good in high school as far as I know. Maybe I'm on of the lucky ones or it could be that I grew up tomboyish and understand a bit guy mentality. It also helps that I spent time with my cousins who came over to play frequently.

 

The sad thing is that both sides are right. Yeah we see the difference now that girls are doing better in the school system but they are still prejudiced against. Women make 8 cents on the dollar, big improvement from the 6 but still we are not being paid equally for the same time and job skill. The education system at least here in California is lousy. It sucks. The nonsense that is required makes is easy for students to fail, especially bilingual students. It's no wonder that California is ranked 50 in the education realm out of the US. We have problems from all sides, the bureaucracy, the factions, everybody. Unfortunately whatever changes we make is bound to tick someone off.

[GarfieldJL]

Whenever I see threads like these I feel like the oddball out. In my high school experience and in lower grades the guys were pretty good and top of the class. The exception was in elementary school with a kid who did have trouble learning but I was paired with him and helped. Needless to say, he did a lot better in school and did good in high school as far as I know. Maybe I'm on of the lucky ones or it could be that I grew up tomboyish and understand a bit guy mentality. It also helps that I spent time with my cousins who came over to play frequently.

How long has it been since high school for you JediMaster, also I did say there were exceptions. Back when I was in Elementry we had 3 recesses, now kids are lucky to have one.

 

The sad thing is that both sides are right. Yeah we see the difference now that girls are doing better in the school system but they are still prejudiced against. Women make 8 cents on the dollar, big improvement from the 6 but still we are not being paid equally for the same time and job skill. The education system at least here in California is lousy. It sucks. The nonsense that is required makes is easy for students to fail, especially bilingual students. It's no wonder that California is ranked 50 in the education realm out of the US. We have problems from all sides, the bureaucracy, the factions, everybody. Unfortunately whatever changes we make is bound to tick someone off.

 

 

Well if the schools are catering to girls and now being set up in a way that is actually setting boys up to fail then it is discriminatory towards boys. The situation of women in the workplace, believe it or not there are laws against discriminating via paychecks just not many women report it. I have heard of cases recently where the opposite occurs though.

[JediMaster12]

Actually Garfield I meant that system was designed for all students to fail. I have seen it happen with kids, especially those that come from the low income areas. It is a sad thing and I wonder how we can make it right.

 

How long has it been since high school for you JediMaster, also I did say there were exceptions. Back when I was in Elementry we had 3 recesses, now kids are lucky to have one.

About five years actually since I graduated and yet I have come back every so often to see the changes. I'm not saying that I am out of touch. I see it every time I visit my mother's classroom. She teaches kinder.

[mimartin]

however learning disabilities are being over diagnosed now, because classes are catering to the learning styles of girls. The loss of recess, being stuck in a seat all day, girls can handle it better than guys can. Seperating genders probably won't help, because either one gender or the other will end up with access to better learning materials, probably the girls will get the more up to date learning materials.

 

So you are saying that it wrong to cater to one or the other, then what is your solution or do you just want to go back to the old system that caters only to males? We are a very adaptive species and I believe we will cope with this little problem. Males need to get use to it anyways as more and more jobs demand being stuck in a seat all day looking at a computer monitor. Consider this job training. All my cousins gripe about being stuck in class all day and then summer rolls around and they are still stuck inside all day playing video games.

 

The education system is flawed in the US and needs a complete overhaul. We are suppose to be teaching our children to cope and solve problems, but all we seem to be doing is testing them and giving them crutches to use as excuses for their future failures. Failure is a part of life and should be celebrated as a learning experience. Sometimes we learn more from our failures than our triumphs.

 

I’m not for separating the genders or home school (there is nothing wrong with home schooling and it should be every parents right to choose what is in the best interest of their child) I just believe social interaction is just as important to a persons development as history, language, math or anything else taught at school.

 

Back when I was in Elementry we had 3 recesses, now kids are lucky to have one.

 

Back when we rode dinosaurs to school we only got one recess and then only if we didn’t talk during class or smart off to the teacher. Most days I did not get any recess. Have you every had to spend an hour with you nose pressed into a circle on a black board? I’m still allergic to chalk. Ah, wasted youth.

[GarfieldJL]

Oh please, this isn't about adapting this is about throwing kids into situations that they aren't ready for. An analogy would be tossing someone off a boat without a life preserver.

 

 

Also you want to make something of the fact I had three recesses when I was in elementry. Face it little kids need to have recess, so they aren't stuck in a chair all day.

[mimartin]

Oh please, this isn't about adapting this is about throwing kids into situations that they aren't ready for. An analogy would be tossing someone off a boat without a life preserver.

 

Which is exactly what we did to little girls till 1972, I just want to know your plan to make it equitable to both genders.

 

I always thought life was about throwing myself into new experiences that I may not ready for. I happen to believe in testing myself whenever possible.

 

By the way that is how I was taught to swim only it wasn’t a boat but a pier.

 

Also you want to make something of the fact I had three recesses when I was in elementry. Face it little kids need to have recess, so they aren't stuck in a chair all day.

 

I wasn’t making anything out of it. I would have loved 3 recesses when I was in school. All I was saying is that it was not always the case. We only had one, but we also had PE and music class to distract our young minds.

[Darth InSidious]

The best example of the problem in Britain is the preponderance of coursework. Generally, girls work on it over the six months or however long they have to do it steadily. By comparison, boys tend to do it all in a huge rush at the last minute. Who is going to do better?

[Totenkopf]

The sad thing is that both sides are right. Yeah we see the difference now that girls are doing better in the school system but they are still prejudiced against. Women make 8 cents on the dollar, big improvement from the 6 but still we are not being paid equally for the same time and job skill.

 

You DID mean 80 and 60 cents respectively? Otherwise, there'd be no reason to hire men for just about anything, let alone outsource to other countries.

[GarfieldJL]

Which is exactly what we did to little girls till 1972, I just want to know your plan to make it equitable to both genders.

 

I will acknowledge the education system was discriminatory towards girls until the late 1960s. However that doesn't excuse discriminating against boys.

 

I always thought life was about throwing myself into new experiences that I may not ready for. I happen to believe in testing myself whenever possible.

 

There is a difference between new experiences and setting someone up to fail.

 

By the way that is how I was taught to swim only it wasn’t a boat but a pier.

 

I imagine someone was there to help you if you started to drown.

 

I wasn’t making anything out of it. I would have loved 3 recesses when I was in school. All I was saying is that it was not always the case. We only had one, but we also had PE and music class to distract our young minds.

 

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mention those, I had 3 recesses, Music, Art, and PE in elementry. Little kids need to be able to move around, boys learn by doing, not sitting there filling out worksheets.

[True_Avery]

The system is not discriminatory to anybody. Everybody has the chance for equal pass and equal fail, but it is their choice to fail which falls back on the parents and society as a whole.

 

So you are saying that it wrong to cater to one or the other, then what is your solution or do you just want to go back to the old system that caters only to males? We are a very adaptive species and I believe we will cope with this little problem. Males need to get use to it anyways as more and more jobs demand being stuck in a seat all day looking at a computer monitor. Consider this job training. All my cousins gripe about being stuck in class all day and then summer rolls around and they are still stuck inside all day playing video games.

Quoted for Truth.

 

Guys do not have mental problems. They are not slow. They are not underdeveloped or sick. I have met people with actual mental illnesses, I worked with them for 3 years, and I was part of their class. The males you are referring to are -lazy-. As mimartin said, guys will gripe and complain, and refuse to do the work all school year but then go home and play video games for 10 hours and not move the entire time.

 

The school system is not singling out males. They are not mistreating them. They are simply doing exactly what they have been doing for years: Running a crappy education system to get kids through school. Some pass, some fail. Genetics are not to blame here. Gender is not to blame here. Society and parents are to blame. The kids who stay glued to their Xbox for 10 hours and refuse to do work at school are not being mistreated, they just simply refuse to step up to the plate and take responsibility for their life.

 

Anybody can pass High School. I live in San Diego, and when I was in High School we had people coming in freshman year who barely knew English passing all their classes and getting their work in. They passed because they tried, male or female. The system does not mistreat boys. Boys mistreat themselves. Girl mistreat themselves. Want a reason why these boys are failing school? Because their idiot parents never taught them responsibly, got it into their heads that sports can make your life, and society has been saying for awhile now to the youth of America that an education is simply a reason for the man to put you down.

 

The "me!" generation we have going on uses the excuse of racism, prejudice, mental illness, drugs, etc as excuses simply not to take responsibly for their own life and instead have their parents guide them through their troubles. In all this coddling, loving, and obsession with making their kids happy, living an "innocent childhood", and making excuses for their "emotional health", parents having brought their own kids down and kept them from growing up. Same goes for the opposite when parents abuse their kids. Girls were taught years ago that their life was not worth much outside a kitchen, so they failed school. Now it has reversed, and the "me!" generation is bringing down both boys and girls alike. It just seem like the guys are getting the worst of it.

 

By saying that boys are being singled out by sexist schools is simply helping these boys and girls cuddle up behind the people willing to defend them so they do not have to grow up.

 

Guys develop slower in some areas, this is true, however learning disabilities are being over diagnosed now, because classes are catering to the learning styles of girls. The loss of recess, being stuck in a seat all day, girls can handle it better than guys can. Separating genders probably won't help, because either one gender or the other will end up with access to better learning materials, probably the girls will get the more up to date learning materials.

How are the classes catering to girls exactly? I was in school not to long ago and I am still well in touch with the "me!" generation. The girls passed classes because they had the mindset to pass classes. A lot of girls failed because they did not have that mindset. A lot of guys failed because they screwed around during class, did not turn in work, and mouthed off to the teacher. That is not the teacher's failing, that is the kids and parents failing.

 

Classes are being tailored in a way that hurts boys, while catering to most girls' strengths.

Boys hurt themselves. People are responsible for their own actions a lot of the time, and the actions of these adolescents can be blamed on their upbringing. I didn't really ever see the guys failing my classes actually attempt to ask for help or pass the class. No, the sat down, talked to their partner, and never did a lick of work.

 

While there are some teachers and schools out there trying to help boys catch up, I imagine they'll soon be facing lawsuits from the feminist movement.

What on earth does the feminist movement have to do with this? This is not a conspiracy by the feminists to make boys look bad so women can rule the world. The boys are doing that to themselves.

 

When this issue was first brought up, the feminist movement cried foul, saying it's just girls are now able to show their potential and people are sexist to say the classrooms are catering to girls.

Ummm... maybe because the girls are actually doing the work? It is not sexist to say that one gender is doing better than the other in the school system if it is fact, by your article. Don't blame the feminists, don't blame the school, don't even blame the teachers. Blame the people who raised them this way. If boys could rock school 100 years ago and girls failed at all turns, then the boys should be able to turn that around if they wanted. They just don't want to because they would rather play video games.

 

Oh please, this isn't about adapting this is about throwing kids into situations that they aren't ready for. An analogy would be tossing someone off a boat without a life preserver.

I think that is exactly the situation. Parents are raising their kids badly, and throwing them into a school setting to which they are not mature enough to handle.

 

There is a difference between new experiences and setting someone up to fail.

You are assuming, again, that the school system hates boys. It does not. Want to know a fun fact? In all of my classes, the Honors group was 90% girls. The College Prep was all the rest of the boys in the class and usually 1 girl. They just don't want to step up to the plate to higher themselves, even though the opportunity is right in front of them.

 

I imagine someone was there to help you if you started to drown.

That someone should be themselves, and the people who raised them. Not the school system, especially if they have already refused to take the help of the system.

 

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mention those, I had 3 recesses, Music, Art, and PE in elementry. Little kids need to be able to move around, boys learn by doing, not sitting there filling out worksheets.

Fun fact: Doing worksheets is doing something. Running around for 6 hours outside does not teach boys math, does not teach them english, and does not set them up for High School and College. You are making excuses for them. If a boy cannot sit down and do work, even if he is younger, that is the fault of his parents for not teaching him to respect their teacher and the time the teacher spends on them. These boys simply refuse to do the work, period.

 

The school system sucks, I agree. But I went to the newest High School in the district. Brand New. Less than 5 years old. Best teachers, best books, best computers, best everything in the entire area. The guys still failed. Girls still failed. Boys still passed. Girls still passed. I have seen some really really really crappy schools in the area. Classes that are made of cardboard boxes stapled into walls. People still passed, and still failed in both genders.

 

The people who passed earned it. The people who failed earned it. And the people who failed did so of their own free will. The people who passed did so of their own free will.

 

Thats my opinion.

[JediMaster12]

You DID mean 80 and 60 cents respectively? Otherwise, there'd be no reason to hire men for just about anything, let alone outsource to other countries.

For every dollar women make 80 cents. That was what I was getting at. I have friends at the women center at school and I get swamped every time I go by that place with info so yeah I know about Rosie the Riveter and Dolores Huerta.

[mimartin]

I imagine someone was there to help you if you started to drown.

 

I’ll just say that I was not overly confident in the ability of my drunken uncle to save me or anyone else. I got to shore on my own and I’m still an expert at the dog paddle. My mother upon hearing this fired my uncle from his baby setting duties and enrolled me with the city pool to get properly trained in the art of swimming.

 

It wasn't entirely my uncle's fault. It was after all the way both he and my mother were taught to swim. That is one family tradition that will end with me.

[Totenkopf]

For every dollar women make 80 cents. That was what I was getting at. I have friends at the women center at school and I get swamped every time I go by that place with info so yeah I know about Rosie the Riveter and Dolores Huerta.

 

Heard of Rosie, but who's Dolores? I only noted that b/c you originally wrote 8 and 6. Private industry, hell..even govt, would love to be able to pay people those kind of wages. Frankly, have never had problem with the gap, so long as it was comparing apples and oranges (truck driver v waitress).

However, pay should be equalized across the board for the same type of labor w/in a company, at least at the hourly rate. Salaries might vary due to other issues (maternity leave, etc..).

 

Back O/T, I went to a mixed grade school system and a male only HS. Seems to me that both sexes learn better when seperated. Even then, some will always excel, while others lag behind. Besides, they'll get reintegrated back at the university level, unless they pick a single gender college. Doesn't seem to do their socializing skills any harm either.

[True_Avery]

Back O/T, I went to a mixed grade school system and a male only HS. Seems to me that both sexes learn better when seperated. Even then, some will always excel, while others lag behind. Besides, they'll get reintegrated back at the university level, unless they pick a single gender college. Doesn't seem to do their socializing skills any harm either.

Where do you live by the way? I might be out of touch with the system, but to my knowledge there are no all boy or full girl schools in the USA and few in England. I would have been thrilled to go to an all girls school personally.

[JediMaster12]

Totenkpof: Dolores Huerta is the right hand woman of the United Farm Workers org that was started by Cesar Chavez. She has come to our campus already and there is talk that she may come again. Here in California, the United Farm Workers was a bg thing in the 60's with the Bracero Program and all. I think that was a typo with the 8 and the 6. Sometimes I think faster than I write and vice versa.

[TK-8252]

OMG, **** having gender-segregated schools. I'd say the only redeeming quality of schools in America is they're the best place to meet (or just look at) hot girls your age. Without that I'd probably drop out.

[Totenkopf]

Where do you live by the way? I might be out of touch with the system, but to my knowledge there are no all boy or full girl schools in the USA and few in England. I would have been thrilled to go to an all girls school personally.

 

I went to catholic school, though you'd not necessarily know that from sitting in religion class (especially in HS). Grade school was mixed, but there were several all girl high schools w/in a mile of us (2 of them also catholic and 2 private). I doubt you'd find a "segregated" public school in the US, at least none that I've ever heard of before. The schools are located in Pgh. PA. There was at least one mixed gender catholic hs as well.

 

@TK-8252---somehow, we managed.

[True_Avery]

OMG, **** having gender-segregated schools. I'd say the only redeeming quality of schools in America is they're the best place to meet (or just look at) hot girls your age. Without that I'd probably drop out.

And, with that, you have proven my point. You have also proven that a gender segregated school would do you, and a lot of other people wonders.

 

Schools are not to blame for being sexist and causing guys to fail. Guys are quite capable of ruining their own life, and to emphasize this: "Without that I'd probably drop out".

 

It does seem that schools are turning into a fashion show by the year though. Maybe gender segregation and such is not what we need...

 

Mandatory uniforms for all schools anyone?

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=180131

[TK-8252]

And, with that, you have proven my point. You have also proven that a gender segregated school would do you, and a lot of other people wonders.

 

How does that do people wonders? Having dudes drop out instead of going to school at all?

 

Mandatory uniforms for all schools anyone?

 

Ah hell no.

[True_Avery]

How does that do people wonders? Having dudes drop out instead of going to school at all?

No, it would mean people would actually go to school to learn instead of a reason to stare at eachother.