How Powerful was Revan

[TKA-001]

Σmiley faces can work ruin.

[Burnseyy]

I always imagined Revan as unstoppable or untouchable, when he was at power.

you know - just the ultimate sith/ultimate jedi.

 

[Darth Hord]

Revan is definitely one of the most powerful characters in Star Wars however I think what makes him so dangerous is not his powers but rather his intelligence and mental will.

[TheExile]

Ahem...

*British voice:* Revan's raw potential is the biggest in the Star Wars universe, as it can be seen in the first KotOR. The Jedi Chronicler in the Dantooine Academy hails Revans power, alongside with other characters: Canderous Ordo, Kreia etc.

Think about this: Revan Vs. Yoda. Of course, Revan beats Yoda, in all types of confrontation: only sabers, only powers, all of them. If Revan has more power in the Force then Yoda, this means that Revan's level should be equal to Vaders level.

But Revan is ancient in comparison with Vader, thus Revan knows secrets that Vader doesn't know- Vader never traveled in the Galaxy as Revan did.*end of british voice*

In other words: REVAN PWNS VADER,SO REVAN PWNS THEM ALL- of course, with the exception of Exile- Revans power= power of Exile!!!

[Robb Stark]

How powerful Revan was is an interesting question from a few different aspects.

 

We've been told he was very strong in the Force and clearly had great potential. That Malak deferred to him, and was afraid to face him IMO (regardless of what he says) is somewhat suggestive that translated into Revan being an excellent combatant with the Force and saber. After his mind wipe and reconversion, he tears through the Star Forge, so he was clearly extremely martially adept. Canderous refers to Revan touchingly as "The greatest warrior of our time," in his final influence dialogue if you bring him with on the Star Forge, and that says quite a bit IMO.

 

From his victories in the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War, the respect he was given by the Mandalorians, and the rest we've heard about his prowess, Revan was by pretty much all accounts a brilliant military tactician.

 

Finally, combining what we know of Revan's action during and following the Mandalorian Wars from KotOR1 and 2, the scope of his scheming, while falling a ways short, is within the realm of Palpatine IMO. Hunting down a space station built by a lost civilization 20,000 years old, converting thousands and thousands to his cause through Malachor and more perverse methods, the assassins, the academy, etc...he was far more savy than your "Mwahahaha, I will knock you all down!" Sith villain.

 

Combining all of Revan's strengths, he makes one of the most formidable characters in the Star Wars universe. I don't know how I feel about him being as strong in the Force as say Exar Kun (who Jolee claims posed a bigger threat than even Revan IIRC), Vader, or Sidious, but as a total package he deserves to be in the discussion of those who wielded the power to make or unmake the Republic.

[HK-42]

He had no powers at all.

 

Jk he was very powerful and could pwn every person in all of star wars.

[JediMaster76]

@HK-42: You aren't a Revan fanboy are you?

 

On-topic: Though Revan is pretty strong, being the head of the Revanchist, going head-to-head with Mandalore and Malak (ok, Malak isn't a good example). He also killed a bunch of those stupid Selkath and Rakata I digress, I wouldn't rate him higher than Anakin/Yoda/Luke, at all. Maybe Mace Windu level of skill/power/strength/etc.

[jonathan7]

How powerful Revan was is an interesting question from a few different aspects.

 

We've been told he was very strong in the Force and clearly had great potential. That Malak deferred to him, and was afraid to face him IMO (regardless of what he says) is somewhat suggestive that translated into Revan being an excellent combatant with the Force and saber. After his mind wipe and reconversion, he tears through the Star Forge, so he was clearly extremely martially adept. Canderous refers to Revan touchingly as "The greatest warrior of our time," in his final influence dialogue if you bring him with on the Star Forge, and that says quite a bit IMO.

 

From his victories in the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War, the respect he was given by the Mandalorians, and the rest we've heard about his prowess, Revan was by pretty much all accounts a brilliant military tactician.

 

Finally, combining what we know of Revan's action during and following the Mandalorian Wars from KotOR1 and 2, the scope of his scheming, while falling a ways short, is within the realm of Palpatine IMO. Hunting down a space station built by a lost civilization 20,000 years old, converting thousands and thousands to his cause through Malachor and more perverse methods, the assassins, the academy, etc...he was far more savy than your "Mwahahaha, I will knock you all down!" Sith villain.

 

Combining all of Revan's strengths, he makes one of the most formidable characters in the Star Wars universe. I don't know how I feel about him being as strong in the Force as say Exar Kun (who Jolee claims posed a bigger threat than even Revan IIRC), Vader, or Sidious, but as a total package he deserves to be in the discussion of those who wielded the power to make or unmake the Republic.

 

QFT

 

In terms of 'power' I will take as force strength. I would say Revan was weaker than the following, but stronger than all others....

 

 

 

 

 

[ForeverNight]

It's almost unfair to have the devourer of worlds in there, you know that right?

 

We can't really compare what Revan does to those in the movies.

 

We are able to make some extrapolations, however.

 

Palpatine: He uses Force Lightning, this speaks to a level of incompetence. After all, most villains have Force Storm when they can grab it. (I know I grab it, even when I'm playing LS) FSrm is a very handy power, if you can wound the others around you enough, and then use it, the enemies are dead.

 

Compare that to the Emperor... if anything he was using Force Shock, since he was using it only on one person. He was causing Luke pain... he almost killed him with it, so it could be said that Lukes VP's were far too low. (Low Con anybody?)

 

Luke: He only took several minutes of Force Shock before he was dying. Compare that with any Dark Jedi. They usually resist it, or shrug it off for half damage. Luke's also sub-par with the Saber. (Look at how he wields it! And how he attempted to kill Darth Vader!)

 

I haven't read any of the Comic Books, so don't think I'm ignoring them on purpose if he did something amazing in them... I just don't know.

 

Vader: Maybe he was powerful, we'll never really know, will we?

 

That's all I have to say. It's just an unfair comparison.

[Darth Hord]

 

Palpatine: He uses Force Lightning, this speaks to a level of incompetence. After all, most villains have Force Storm when they can grab it. (I know I grab it, even when I'm playing LS) FSrm is a very handy power, if you can wound the others around you enough, and then use it, the enemies are dead.

 

Compare that to the Emperor... if anything he was using Force Shock, since he was using it only on one person. He was causing Luke pain... he almost killed him with it, so it could be said that Lukes VP's were far too low. (Low Con anybody?)

 

 

 

Sidious's lightning is arguably the most deadliest of out there. In the comics he reduces a couple of darkside prophets to ash. If Sidious wanted to kill Luke in an instant of the death star he could have, but he wanted to torture him. I think it is best not to try and label the lightning that is used in the movies based on the gameplay names of it such as "force shock"

 

Luke: He only took several minutes of Force Shock before he was dying. Compare that with any Dark Jedi. They usually resist it, or shrug it off for half damage. Luke's also sub-par with the Saber. (Look at how he wields it! And how he attempted to kill Darth Vader!)

 

Luke would have been dead after the first blast if the emperor truly wanted to kill him quickly but the emperor would rather torture him and for the record, a random dark jedi would also be killed quickly by the emperor if he wanted to. But yea the Luke portrayed in the movies is a complete novice but in the novels/comics set post Return of the jedi he becomes extremely powerful.

 

 

Now in terms of the sith I would rank higher than Revan in (force power/strength category only because his lightsaber skills are unknown) are Sidious,Kun,Bane,Nihilus and Caedus possibly. Other potential characters would be Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd possibly and maybe other ancient sith but nothing is known about them or their force strength so it is best not to include them in a discussion. In force strength I would put Yoda, Luke, (from the novels) and maybe kyp but i don't particularly care for ranking jedi so there maybe more.

[TKA-001]

Palpatine: He uses Force Lightning, this speaks to a level of incompetence. After all, most villains have Force Storm when they can grab it. (I know I grab it, even when I'm playing LS) FSrm is a very handy power, if you can wound the others around you enough, and then use it, the enemies are dead.

 

Compare that to the Emperor... if anything he was using Force Shock, since he was using it only on one person. He was causing Luke pain... he almost killed him with it, so it could be said that Lukes VP's were far too low. (Low Con anybody?)

You are taking gameplay mechanics far too literally. There's no real difference between force "Shock", "Lightning", and "Storm". It's just lightning.

[ForeverNight]

But, you have to use the Gameplay Mechanics, because we're comparing Revan to these people, and Revan is from the game. Does that mean that Revan who has Force Shock is on Equal Footing with the Revan who knows Force Storm since its just Force Lightning.

 

Now, granted, that post was a little... crazy?

 

But, we are comparing from a Video Game to Movies. That's going to be tough, Gameplay Mechanics or no.

[JediMaster76]

Gameplay mechanics don't contribute to a person's said strength. Otherwise, the Secret Apprentice would be like the god of the SW universe. Especially b/c that's just what they are. Gameplay mechanics. They are just their to provide an RPG feel to the game. As for the Dark Jedi being able to shrug it off, I'd suppose they'd need to become resilient to it, considering the happy habit Malak had about using Force lightning on incompetent/unwilling-to-turn-to-the-Darkside Jedi.

 

Otherwise, I'd like to possess an insta-death saber that cuts people in pieces on contact like they do in the movies

[Darth Hord]

But, you have to use the Gameplay Mechanics, because we're comparing Revan to these people, and Revan is from the game. Does that mean that Revan who has Force Shock is on Equal Footing with the Revan who knows Force Storm since its just Force Lightning.

 

Now, granted, that post was a little... crazy?

 

But, we are comparing from a Video Game to Movies. That's going to be tough, Gameplay Mechanics or no.

 

 

 

When you compare videogame(ex Revan)characters to other characters from movies or novels you can only use information gathered from cutscenes,what other characters say about Revan, and the known feats for example I would include in my argument would be: Revan killed a republic soldier in 3 seconds before Malak betrayed him, he defeated a star forge powered Bastilla and Malak. Revan,Jolee and Juhani overcame many dark jedi in the rakatan temple. Him and his companions faced a miniature army on the star forge(based on the custcene where Malak says "send all available trooops) We learn through dialogs that Revan killed Mandalore the ultimate and the echani general Yusanis, even though neither character we in the game, i could go but you get the idea.

 

But you cannot use gameplay mechanics. Everyone has a different version of Revan so while yours may have lightning mine doesn't. But the canon Revan is known to have used lightning on the rakatan when he first arrived prior to kotor so we know he has that power. Your Revan may not know force choke but Revan canonically knows the attacks base on his use of it on a republic soldier. If it is still not clear to you I would be happy to continue to tell to you what can use of a videogame character to compare him to a movie or novel character.

[Rev7]

 

We can't really compare what Revan does to those in the movies.

 

We are able to make some extrapolations, however.

 

Palpatine: He uses Force Lightning, this speaks to a level of incompetence. After all, most villains have Force Storm when they can grab it. (I know I grab it, even when I'm playing LS) FSrm is a very handy power, if you can wound the others around you enough, and then use it, the enemies are dead.

 

Compare that to the Emperor... if anything he was using Force Shock, since he was using it only on one person. He was causing Luke pain... he almost killed him with it, so it could be said that Lukes VP's were far too low. (Low Con anybody?)

 

Luke: He only took several minutes of Force Shock before he was dying. Compare that with any Dark Jedi. They usually resist it, or shrug it off for half damage. Luke's also sub-par with the Saber. (Look at how he wields it! And how he attempted to kill Darth Vader!)

 

I haven't read any of the Comic Books, so don't think I'm ignoring them on purpose if he did something amazing in them... I just don't know.

 

Vader: Maybe he was powerful, we'll never really know, will we?

 

That's all I have to say. It's just an unfair comparison.

I do have to say that I agree with that. I guess that it depends on your mindset.

Sidious's lightning is arguably the most deadliest of out there. In the comics he reduces a couple of darkside prophets to ash. If Sidious wanted to kill Luke in an instant of the death star he could have, but he wanted to torture him. I think it is best not to try and label the lightning that is used in the movies based on the gameplay names of it such as "force shock"

Perhaps it was age? Sidious would be pretty darn old in ROTJ.

 

But, we are comparing from a Video Game to Movies. That's going to be tough, Gameplay Mechanics or no.

I definately agree with that. I think that we cannot know for sure how powerful he was. Not unless we see Revan in a movie, of course.

When you compare videogame(ex Revan)characters to other characters from movies or novels you can only use information gathered from cutscenes,what other characters say about Revan, and the known feats for example I would include in my argument would be: Revan killed a republic soldier in 3 seconds before Malak betrayed him, he defeated a star forge powered Bastilla and Malak. Revan,Jolee and Juhani overcame many dark jedi in the rakatan temple. Him and his companions faced a miniature army on the star forge(based on the custcene where Malak says "send all available trooops) We learn through dialogs that Revan killed Mandalore the ultimate and the echani general Yusanis, even though neither character we in the game, i could go but you get the idea.

 

But you cannot use gameplay mechanics. Everyone has a different version of Revan so while yours may have lightning mine doesn't. But the canon Revan is known to have used lightning on the rakatan when he first arrived prior to kotor so we know he has that power. Your Revan may not know force choke but Revan canonically knows the attacks base on his use of it on a republic soldier. If it is still not clear to you I would be happy to continue to tell to you what can use of a videogame character to compare him to a movie or novel character.

With you saying that, we can easily make the assumption that Revan is a lot more powerful than Darth Vader, for example. I know that Revan was praised a lot in the game, and in the cutscenes, and I know that Darth Vader was feared. However, he was not even close to being praised as much as Revan was. The discussion would be over then.

[jonathan7]

With you saying that, we can easily make the assumption that Revan is a lot more powerful than Darth Vader, for example. I know that Revan was praised a lot in the game, and in the cutscenes, and I know that Darth Vader was feared. However, he was not even close to being praised as much as Revan was. The discussion would be over then.

 

I think Revan was a better leader than Darth Vader. But for me, I made an attempt to clarify 'Power'.

 

The problem we have with Revan, is many people having played KotOR; think *they* are Revan, and as such they would pawn everyone else in the Star Wars universe; such is Fanboyism.

 

Of course, in one on one fights we can speculate as to who will win; but there is always a slight err of unpredictability in any fight as to who can win. e.g. I'm trained in Krav Maga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga) and I have to defend myself against an aggressive yob in the street; the advantage is with me, but lets presume my attacker has a hell of a right hook and gets lucky... I'm out; hopefully you get the point I'm trying to make. That even if you should win, and normally would win, doesn't mean you always will win. (btw first training of Krav Maga is to avoid a fight if you can anyways).

 

Personally I don't like force storm; however in lightning terms; the reborn Palpatine uses a force lightning to destroy an entire load of space ships (very lame I know); however I don't see Revan toping that.

[Darth Hord]

With you saying that, we can easily make the assumption that Revan is a lot more powerful than Darth Vader, for example. I know that Revan was praised a lot in the game, and in the cutscenes, and I know that Darth Vader was feared. However, he was not even close to being praised as much as Revan was. The discussion would be over then.

 

I would say that Revan is more powerful than Vader but there margin by which is not that big. Vader also has people praising him in the novels post ROTJ. Some of Revan's praise (in fact a lot the praise from Canderous) has no affect on determining Revan's personal power such as Revan being called a great strategist. Than another you think have to look at is if the characters are showing personal bias towards a particular person.

 

Revan's big advantage of Vader would be his force mastery (not that Vader isn't powerful in the force) and he would most likely win a force battle(like Dooku vs Yoda in Attack of the clones) between the two. But if they were to engage of ligthsaber combat than I would give the advantage to Vader. The reason is because Revan's combat skills are limited by gameplay. For example we know that Revan killed Malak on the star forge but we don't know the degree of difficulty(revan could have been losing or winning the entire duel) he had killing him but we do know that Revan killed via lightsaber. Another example would be Revan facing Bastilla on the star forge. We know that Revan defeated her multiple times and redeemed her to the lightside but we don't know anything else about the duel.

 

Basically that means we know the general combat feats of Revan but don't know hardly any details about the fights to due to gameplay. Which makes hit hard to accurate judge his power and specifically his lightsaber skills

[jonathan7]

Revan's big advantage of Vader would be his force mastery (not that Vader isn't powerful in the force) and he would most likely win a force battle(like Dooku vs Yoda in Attack of the clones) between the two.

 

I disagree here, Vader is the 'chosen' one and conceived by the Force itself, as such I cannot see how Revan would be more powerful than Vader in terms of force ability.

[Darth Hord]

I disagree here, Vader is the 'chosen' one and conceived by the Force itself, as such I cannot see how Revan would be more powerful than Vader in terms of force ability.

 

You have to remember though he could never truly become as powerful as he could have been after Mustafar. I'm fairly certain that in vanity fair magazine GL said Vader was 80% as powerful as the emperor (OT, version I think). Then we have to take into account the fact that Revan has a broader knowledge of the force than Vader(he was the first in god knows how long to visit the trayus academy on malachor),I believe in "Path of Destruction" Bane said that Revan's holocron had more information than the entire academy(it might have been the whole planet but i can't recall) of Korriban had during the New Sith Wars. Plus there is the fact that Sidious purposely was guarding knowledge from Vader (ex. Knowledge he learned from Naga Sadow)so that also makes me question as how much Sidious taught him. Plus there is the fact that Vader needs to worry about Revan's force lightning which Vader can block in fairness but he is still vulnerable to it.

[jonathan7]

You have to remember though he could never truly become as powerful as he could have been after Mustafar. I'm fairly certain that in vanity fair magazine GL said Vader was 80% as powerful as the emperor (OT, version I think).

 

The latter I agree with, the form while is G-canon, never made too much sense to be, due to the fact Yoda said; "Size matters not". In otherwords, surely Yoda shouldn't be as powerful as other force users as he's much smaller - it's the same logic as Vader's Force Ability being reduced after Mustafar.

[Darth Hord]

The latter I agree with, the form while is G-canon, never made too much sense to be, due to the fact Yoda said; "Size matters not". In otherwords, surely Yoda shouldn't be as powerful as other force users as he's much smaller - it's the same logic as Vader's Force Ability being reduced after Mustafar.

 

It is quite interesting yes, In "Rise of Darth Vader" Sidious makes it sounds like that Vader's problem is more mental than physical,plus there is no comment about him losing any potential after Dooku takes off his arm, yet in the Legacy of the Foce Series Lumiya tells Jacen Solo that it was her's and Vader's mechanical form that made them unfit to be true sith in a sense. Sidious also notes else where that after Mustafar, Vader was strong enough to kill him but not strong enough to succeed him. Another interpretation of GL's statement is that Vader was 80% of Sidious at that point, yet I heard people on another forum say that GL said he could never become as powerful as the emperor in the Revenge of the sith commentary I believe.

[ForeverNight]

Well, I guess the Reason Mustafar was more debilatating was because Vader lost more there than loosing an arm. The Force flows through living things, and as Ben said in NH "He's more Machine than man."

 

From that we can assume that he is more than 50% Machine, thus loosing 50% or more of his Force Potential, since the Force flows through "Living things", Organic Materials, as opposed to Inorganic Materials -your metals and such.

 

So, we can assume that since the force flows through the living (Organic) and doesn't through the inorganic, and since Vader is more machine than man, we can assume that his Force Potential was halved or so.

 

Did that make any sense?

[jonathan7]

Well, I guess the Reason Mustafar was more debilatating was because Vader lost more there than loosing an arm. The Force flows through living things, and as Ben said in NH "He's more Machine than man."

 

From that we can assume that he is more than 50% Machine, thus loosing 50% or more of his Force Potential, since the Force flows through "Living things", Organic Materials, as opposed to Inorganic Materials -your metals and such.

 

So, we can assume that since the force flows through the living (Organic) and doesn't through the inorganic, and since Vader is more machine than man, we can assume that his Force Potential was halved or so.

 

Did that make any sense?

 

It made sense, I think you missed my point though and the one Darth Hord was responding too.

 

It is quite interesting yes, In "Rise of Darth Vader" Sidious makes it sounds like that Vader's problem is more mental than physical,plus there is no comment about him losing any potential after Dooku takes off his arm, yet in the Legacy of the Foce Series Lumiya tells Jacen Solo that it was her's and Vader's mechanical form that made them unfit to be true sith in a sense. Sidious also notes else where that after Mustafar, Vader was strong enough to kill him but not strong enough to succeed him. Another interpretation of GL's statement is that Vader was 80% of Sidious at that point, yet I heard people on another forum say that GL said he could never become as powerful as the emperor in the Revenge of the sith commentary I believe.

 

See I think Sidious was wrong, in that if Vader was strong enough to kill him, I think he would of. So I would of thought Vader could succeed him, but couldn't kill him.

[Darth Hord]

See I think Sidious was wrong, in that if Vader was strong enough to kill him, I think he would of. So I would of thought Vader could succeed him, but couldn't kill him.

I think Sidious's logic was that it is possible that Vader could kill(more or less using the Any Given Sunday clause) him, which he obviously did to an extent, but that he would never be more powerful than him thus weakening the Sith Order. Sidious could have also been thinking that Vader would use his(vader's) apprentice to help him kills Sidoious, such as he was going to with Luke if he was turned and it was one of the main purposes of training Starkiller which Sidious most likely learned about.

 

To keep this somewhat related to the topic on hand and for those who may not know what were talking about it would be the same situation with Yuthara trying to have Revan help her kill Uthar because she may not have been able to kill him herself and would need the help of her apprentice (in Revan) to do so.

[Rev7]

I think Revan was a better leader than Darth Vader. But for me, I made an attempt to clarify 'Power'.

I know that Revan was a much better leader than Darth Vader.

The problem we have with Revan, is many people having played KotOR; think *they* are Revan, and as such they would pawn everyone else in the Star Wars universe; such is Fanboyism.

I have seen it first-hand.

 

Of course, in one on one fights we can speculate as to who will win; but there is always a slight err of unpredictability in any fight as to who can win. e.g. I'm trained in Krav Maga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga) and I have to defend myself against an aggressive yob in the street; the advantage is with me, but lets presume my attacker has a hell of a right hook and gets lucky... I'm out; hopefully you get the point I'm trying to make. That even if you should win, and normally would win, doesn't mean you always will win. (btw first training of Krav Maga is to avoid a fight if you can anyways).

I agree that there is always the unpredictability in a fight, but you have to remember that this is Star Wars we are talking about here.

 

Personally I don't like force storm; however in lightning terms; the reborn Palpatine uses a force lightning to destroy an entire load of space ships (very lame I know); however I don't see Revan toping that.

Why don't you like force storm jonathan? It is a powerful...erm...power. I would much rather see a stronger force lightning rather than force storm, though. Regardless, force storm is a strong power.

I would say that Revan is more powerful than Vader but there margin by which is not that big. Vader also has people praising him in the novels post ROTJ. Some of Revan's praise (in fact a lot the praise from Canderous) has no affect on determining Revan's personal power such as Revan being called a great strategist. Than another you think have to look at is if the characters are showing personal bias towards a particular person.

Canderous was not the only one that 'praised' Revan, my friend. All throughout KotOR you hear about what Revan did, and how powerful he is. You even hear about him in KotOR II from people like Kreia, Atton, ect!

I disagree here, Vader is the 'chosen' one and conceived by the Force itself, as such I cannot see how Revan would be more powerful than Vader in terms of force ability.

I agree. I don't think that many would even come close to Vader's force ablility/potential. He was the 'chosen one'. I don't think that Vader really reached all that he could be though...Revan on the other hand, I think that he might have.