Totenkopf Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Social promotion pretty much doesn't exist since NCLB. Perhaps that is one of its few redeeming values. However, there are instances where it should exist. Teachers should be given back their own professional discretion to pass a student who does well in class, but can't take tests successfully. As for the value for the tax money you speak of, I favor the idea of taking the deadbeat "students" (term used VERY loosely) out of the equation. The bad seeds are the ones bringing everyone else down. There are many success stories in schools across the land, but the media focuses on the negative (just like they do with elections). If a student can't perform in a traditional school setting, there needs to be a trade school option. And I don't mean computer-based either. I'm talking about programs that aren't available in public schools anymore....masonry, carpentry, welding, etc. Trades that are suited to those who can't excel in a college preparatory environment. A lot of the problem is "idle hands are the devil's playground." Some students simply need hands-on training. I think that the trade school concept has a lot of merit. People can make quite a good living working in various trades (so long as wages aren't depressed by an influx of illegals doing these types of jobs that "Americans don't want to do"). College isn't for everyone. There're many paths to success, college being only one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I was as shocked reading that as I was when I found out a person, I think late 20's-early 30s, beat up a 64 year old on the bus with his anger management homework. How in the world did they come up with that idea, something must've gone terribly wrong to come up with that, in year 3!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 The disease here? They haven't cultivated a healthy fear of their teachers or parents. The solution? Corporal Punishment. Ever hear that "The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I agree with Georgia's policy of not bringing these kids to trial. I think though that their parents should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law. Parents actually need to be... um... you know... PARENTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Parents actually need to be... um... you know... PARENTS! It always gets me that we are required to get a drivers license in order to operate a motor vehicle, but any moron can have a child. Obliviously a child can be just as deadly as a motor vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 It always gets me that we are required to get a drivers license in order to operate a motor vehicle, but any moron can have a child. Obliviously a child can be just as deadly as a motor vehicle. More so. A child can become far more lethal. We have prisons with a good chunk of them, and even more are out on the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Well, I'm sure if we ever figure out completely how to rework the human genome, the govt will be able to turn off/on peoples' sex drives and control fertility. Maybe even create a Dept of Fertility or somesuch thing. Keep in mind, though, that parents are no more able to monitor their children 24-7 than society can. Doesn't mean you get a pass for bad/absentee parenting, just that there are more influences on kids behavior than just their immediate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 ...proof that the American society is collapsing. Is? IS? This is way beyond "is". I was in grade school four years ago, and several students just didn't care, and niether did the teacher. About half of my sixth-grade class didn't do any homework, at all. Some people brought thier iPods and the teacher could, quite frankly, give a crap. Sounds like my old high school, only not as bad. I think music plays at least some part in this somehow. Rap is very popular with kids and teens. And what do they rap. Rape, murder, crime. Meh...chicken and the egg theory. One could easily argue that they only listen to rap because they're interested in rape, murder, and crime already. Of course, I can hardly speak on the matter since I don't listen to music at all. The bad seeds are the ones bringing everyone else down. There are many success stories in schools across the land, but the media focuses on the negative (just like they do with elections). If a student can't perform in a traditional school setting, there needs to be a trade school option. Anyone ever seen The Wire? The show took place in Baltimore, and focused on drug-related crime, on every level, from the supplier to the corner boys to the kingpins. There was a whole season that focused on the problems of the school system.. This study group took all the "bad seeds" out of the class and put them in a separate class, focused on trying to understand what made them bad seeds. The group was run by a former police commander who got rid of the drug problem by legalizing drugs in certain zones of the city (yes, that got him fired). The point he was trying to make was that it didn't matter if they taught them or not, because they didn't want to be taught. Their parents and grandparents had gone to the same schools, been failed by the parents and grandparents of the same teachers, and wound up back on the corner selling drugs. The group was shut down because the school was more concerned about the test scores than whether any of the students actually learned anything. While the show may have been a work of fiction, there certainly is a lot of truth in this. My high school had (still has, I assume) a similar problem; it was focused on being number one in regards to the standardized test scores, to the extent where entire classes were punished if they weren't. Teachers were pressured not to teach, but to make sure their students would pass. Add to that a few bad seeds who bring down the rest of the students, and you've got an entire school that doesn't care. But if you take out the bad seeds, you still have a dozen other problems. I agree with Georgia's policy of not bringing these kids to trial. I think though that their parents should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law. The law doesn't find them responsible. Perhaps that is one of the problems. Of course, if you put people in prison for being bad parents, there'd be none of us here. Well, I'm sure if we ever figure out completely how to rework the human genome, the govt will be able to turn off/on peoples' sex drives and control fertility. Maybe even create a Dept of Fertility or somesuch thing. And that's another problem. Getting the government involved doesn't solve anything, and is bound to create a dozen more problems. It shouldn't be the government's job to tell parents what to do, and punish them for being bad parents. Just look at what happens when the government tries to enforce social policy (see: prohibition, abortion, gay marriage, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 The law doesn't find them responsible. Perhaps that is one of the problems. Of course, if you put people in prison for being bad parents, there'd be none of us here. At that age, they can hardly be held accountable. 8 to 9 years old. IF by that time the child hasn't been taught that hurting is unacceptable, that is a failure on the part of the parents. This kind of behavior tells volumes about the parents more than it does the child. Lets face it, All parents make mistakes. Not all parents are criminally negligent with their children. You seem to imply that I think that the same punishment should be levied for not catching your child before they knock a vase off the shelf(man was that thing expensive) as completely ignoring your child's behavioral problems. I mean we put parents in jail for abusing their children, but not for giving them a reasonable swat on their backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 At that age, they can hardly be held accountable. 8 to 9 years old. IF by that time the child hasn't been taught that hurting is unacceptable, that is a failure on the part of the parents. This kind of behavior tells volumes about the parents more than it does the child. Lets face it, All parents make mistakes. Not all parents are criminally negligent with their children. You seem to imply that I think that the same punishment should be levied for not catching your child before they knock a vase off the shelf(man was that thing expensive) as completely ignoring your child's behavioral problems. I mean we put parents in jail for abusing their children, but not for giving them a reasonable swat on their backside. The difference is that one is easily defined as a crime, while the other is simple negligence. Whether the negligence is criminal is the question. As of now, the law doesn't define it as such, and perhaps that is a problem. But you said it yourself--all parents make mistakes. Finding parents criminally responsible for the actions of their children leads to a slippery slope. And as I said earlier, getting the government involved is not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jvstice Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 That varies by state though. In Florida, a parent is responsible for the actions of their children. So if this had happened there, all of their parents would be looking at criminal sentences as though they themselves had broken the same laws that their children actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Didn't know that Florida law was that extreme. A little too extreme for my tastes, though the law here (Massachusetts) is too lax when it comes to parental responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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