Computer recommendation?

[stoffe]

The Asus P5Q Pro motherboard is highly recommended over at the Anandtech forums and even has Crossfire support.

 

Could find an Asus P5Q-E iP45 for sale here, hopefully that's the same thing, or close.

 

If you can get the VisionTek brand of that 4850 in Europe, you should, as VisionTek is the only ATI board partner that offers a lifetime warranty, and Sapphire is notorious for raping the unfortunates who end up having to RMA their cards.

 

Couldn't find anything from that brand on sale here. The Sapphire HD4850 seemed to be the only HD4850 card they had in stock at the moment around here. Got no idea if it's the overheating version or the usable one though.

 

As far as HDDs go, have you heard of the WD6400AAKS or it's slightly younger and faster sibling, the WD6401AALS? These are the fastest 7200RPM drives available right now. They're as fast as the original Raptors, and they're pretty cheap.

 

Thanks, I'll get one of those instead then

 

Give the motherboard's onboard audio a test drive before investing in a Soundblaster: you might be pleasantly surprised as onboard audio has come a long way in the past couple of years.

 

OK, I'm just using headphones with the computer anyway so I don't need anything all that fancy. The on-board audio should suffice then.

 

Unless you're running XP I'd suggest 2x2GB RAM because Vista is a hog. As cheap as DDR2 is right now (that is, unless it's expensive in Europe), you may as well get 2x2GB even if you're running XP.

 

I was planning to continue running Windows XP Home which I currently have installed on the computer. Hopefully I can copy over the HD partitions from my current wrecked computer and do some OS repairs to make it work. (Worked when I got my current computer to transfer the partitions from the old one at least.) So much work to have to reinstall everything. Since I have never even come close to running out of memory so far I think 2 GB should be enough.

 

 

How does this look for a revised shopping list?

 

Case: Cooler Master Elite 330

Motherboard: Asus P5Q-E iP45

Power Supply: Corsair VX CMPSU-550CXEU 550W

CPU: Intel Core Duo E8400 3.0 GHz

RAM: Corsair XMS2 DHX TWIN2X2048 - 6400C5DHX 2 GB

Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640 GB 7200 rpm

CD/DVD: Pioneer DVR-116DBK DVD+-RW

Graphics: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 512 MB DDR3

Keyboard: Logitech G11

Monitor: Samsung T220 (22" Wide)

CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS9700LED

Extra: ESD armband

 

Do anyone know of a good, quiet 120mm chassi fan that fits in the CME case? Also, anyone know if Logitech has a good mouse model that can be used when you're left-handed without it doubling as a torture device? I was recommended that Logitech G5 is a good mouse, but unfortunately it turned out to be (non)ergonomical. :/

 

Could you give us the options you have for the components you have questions about?

 

Don't really have a list. Just looking around at what the different stores around here have in stock based on recommendations that are mentioned in this thread.

 

(Mostly at http://www.datorbutiken.com/ though it's in Swedish )

 

I wouldn't bother with 2 things though: a Blu-Ray drive

 

Maybe a needless expense since I don't have any Bluray discs currently anyway, and it will probably be years before they ship games and such in that format alone. I'll swap that for a normal DVD-recorder then.

 

 

Thanks for the advise everyone, much appreciated.

[Darth333]

Could find an Asus P5Q-E iP45 for sale here, hopefully that's the same thing, or close.

Looks good

 

Couldn't find anything from that brand on sale here. The Sapphire HD4850 seemed to be the only HD4850 card they had in stock at the moment around here. Got no idea if it's the overheating version or the usable one though.

This is the stock cooler version: https://www.datorbutiken.com/se/default.aspx?Product=SAPHD4850LSING

 

This is the other version: http://www.datorbutiken.com/se/default.aspx?Product=SAPHD4850L (go figure ...it's less expensive)

 

other options with non stock coolers:

http://www.datorbutiken.com/se/default.aspx?Product=PCRHD4850PPH

https://www.datorbutiken.com/se/default.aspx?Product=GIGPCXHD4850ZL

 

Also, anyone know if Logitech has a good mouse model that can be used when you're left-handed without it doubling as a torture device? I was recommended that Logitech G5 is a good mouse, but unfortunately it turned out to be (non)ergonomical. :/[/qUOTE]The Logitech g3 was ambidextrous. Razer makes nice ambidextrous gaming mice too .

 

I'll stop typing now as I managed to screw up my keyboard and it's a real pain... several keys don't work anymore

[Q]

Could find an Asus P5Q-E iP45 for sale here, hopefully that's the same thing, or close.

That's a slightly higher-end model than the one I linked to, so you should be fine.

The Sapphire HD4850 seemed to be the only HD4850 card they had in stock at the moment around here. Got no idea if it's the overheating version or the usable one though.

That is now completely fixable by changing the fan profiles with RivaTuner, and, if you're unlucky enough to get one of the older models, a BIOS flash.

I was planning to continue running Windows XP Home which I currently have installed on the computer. Hopefully I can copy over the HD partitions from my current wrecked computer and do some OS repairs to make it work. (Worked when I got my current computer to transfer the partitions from the old one at least.) So much work to have to reinstall everything. Since I have never even come close to running out of memory so far I think 2 GB should be enough.

You're right: it should. I would go ahead and reinstall everything. It's a pain, yes, but everything runs better that way. Then again, you know a lot more about software than I do.

How does this look for a revised shopping list?

Looks good, except...

Extra: ESD armband

WTH is this?!

Do anyone know of a good, quiet 120mm chassi fan that fits in the CME case?

Zalman makes good fans from what I've heard. I use Yate-Loon fans. They're fine, but I have them more because I got them very, very cheaply than for build quality. In fact, I got so many of them that if/when any of the ones in my case give out I have several replacements standing by.

Also, anyone know if Logitech has a good mouse model that can be used when you're left-handed without it doubling as a torture device? I was recommended that Logitech G5 is a good mouse, but unfortunately it turned out to be (non)ergonomical. :/

I'm also a lefty, but I use my right hand with the mouse. I have a plain Logitech optical mouse, an M-BT96a, and it's perfectly symmetrical, so a lefty could use it, but it's so old that I seriously doubt that it's even produced any more.

 

On a side note: with that motherboard and heatsink you could overclock that E8400 to 3.6GHz just by raising the FSB to 400. Your memory would still be running at stock speed and I doubt that you'd have to mess with any voltages at all, except for maybe the northbridge (FSB voltage). Core2 Duo is incredibly easy and safe to overclock. I just see it as getting your money's worth. With that setup there would really be no reason not to do it.

[Astrotoy7]

Now theres a milestone, 2 ladies in one thread in the techforum(3 counting Niner)

 

OT:

Looks like you're in good hands stoffe, no need for me to chip in with my tirades about smallforms, 1600p and green computing

 

mtfbwya

[stoffe]

Bought the components (almost, had to get an Asus Radeon card instead) and managed to assemble them into something that (sort of) seems to work, but now it looks like it's time for the real trouble to start.

 

It's sloooooow, much much much slower than my old computer. Don't know if it's just some BIOS setting that's wrong, drivers that are missing, some kind of conflict or what, but it's really pathetically slow.

 

On top of that windows keep trying to reinstall the network and sound drivers every time I start up the computer, the (USB) mouse suddenly only works in Safe mode (worked before, don't know why it stopped, or how to get it working again).

 

And on top of that that cursed Windows Activation bull**** in XP Home complained about changed hardware requiring re-Activation. Fair enough, i activate it again and it says the key is OK and stops bugging me. Later I restart (since you apparently cant install drivers without restarting the computer 3 times), then the Activation pops up again(!) about hardware changes and I try to activate it again. Only this time it refuses to accept it, saying the key has been used the max number of allowed times. It's crap like that which makes customers seriously contemplate the merits of software piracy.

 

This is why I hate getting new computers. Thing never ever just work like intended right away. You have to waste hours or days wrestling with it just to make it remotely usable. I've wasted the whole day on this and I still don't have a computer that's usable as much more than an expensive paper weight. I'm so fed up with this right now I lack the words to properly express it.

[Q]

Did you install XP from scratch? Because you should, considering that you have completely new hardware. Just clean off your harddrive and start completely from scratch. It may be a pain, but it will simply work better that way, trust me.

 

And you will probably have to give M$ a call for a new activation key for XP.

[Darth333]

Did you install XP from scratch? Because you should, considering that you have completely new hardware. Just clean off your harddrive and start completely from scratch. It may be a pain, but it will simply work better that way, trust me.

Agreed. Check the temperatures (CPU especially) & the new components too.

[stoffe]

Agreed. Check the temperatures (CPU especially) & the new components too.

 

Don't know what temperatures are considered normal for this hardware. CPU temp is 33°C, case temp is 38°C, GPU temp is 44°C currently when just having iTunes, Skype and Firefox running.

 

On a more positive note I finally managed to solve some of the problems I had. The mouse problems and extreme slowness vanished after uninstalling some old junk and installing Service Pack 2, a whole bunch of patches from Windows Update (had to buy a new XP license key to get rid of the MS Activation junk too) and updating some drivers. Still doesn't feel much faster than my old computer, but at least it's not so slow any more. Haven't tried it with any games yet, maybe will notice more difference there.

 

Speaking of which, is the Catalyst Control Center required for games to work optimally on newer Radeon cards? I've used ATI Tray Tools earlier instead since CCC was so bloated and required .NET to run. Had to dump the Omega drivers and switch to the official ATI ones instead since Omega is lagging so far behind on updates nowadays.

 

(Ended up getting an ASUS EAH4850 1 GB HDMI card instead since the Sapphire Radeon wasn't available but that one was. Seems to come with a custom ASUS cooler on it as well.)

[Q]

Your temps look fine.

 

I'm glad that you ended up with an Asus 4850. Asus would be my second choice after VisionTek among the ATI board partners. My third would be Gigabyte.

 

Glad to hear that you've got your problems sorted out. You probably won't see a huge difference in performance until you fire up one of your games. Then it should be like night and day, especially on that new monitor. Have fun!

[stoffe]

Just some final reflections on this whole thing, now that I've had a couple of months to play around with it and get used to it.

 

The LCD monitor seems to be a mixed blessing. The image feels a bit crispier and the widescreen format is very nice in applications with a lot of palettes and extra windows, but the viewing angle is atrocious. It's enough that I lean back in my chair for the image on screen to appear 50% darker, and if I move my head sideways ever so slightly the image gets a yellow-ish tint. Don't know if I've just picked a bad model (which would be fully in line with my usual luck), or if LCDs in general still have a way to go before reaching CRT-level viewing quality.

 

For general use everything seems to work nicely. Feels a bit more responsive than the old computer, and it's nice to be able to put the computer in sleep mode again when not using it for a while.

 

Games seem to be a mixed bag as well. Some games that didn't work so well on my old computer seems to be running a lot better on the new one, like Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights 2, though I still need to use medium graphics settings in NWN2 to get playable frame rates. At least other games can be run with all settings turned up with good performance, and I managed to play Mass Effect for 4 hours straight with no lockups, hickups or crashes.

 

Other games that I never had any problems with on my old computer seems a lot less reliable on this new one, like Bioshock and Guild Wars. The former crashes after like 5 minutes or play, while the latter sometimes freezes during area transitions forcing me to reboot the computer. I also get some weird noise flickering over the screen image when playing some games. Tried playing Tomb Raider:Underworld, but that seemed to make the graphics card flip out, giving me a screenfull of green lines followed by a crash after just playing for a few minutes. I managed to just barely get through the first tutorial area, but crashed on the boat before I even had time to jump into the water.

 

In summary it seems to be the same old story repeating over and over. While some things get better when upgrading to a new computer there are always tons of problems and things can never ever just work as intended. A bit tiring, but I guess it's a natural law or something.

[tk102]

I bet you can run DOS on it with the best of them though.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

pshaw, the stoffe is a *nix girl

[Q]

The LCD monitor seems to be a mixed blessing. The image feels a bit crispier and the widescreen format is very nice in applications with a lot of palettes and extra windows, but the viewing angle is atrocious. It's enough that I lean back in my chair for the image on screen to appear 50% darker, and if I move my head sideways ever so slightly the image gets a yellow-ish tint. Don't know if I've just picked a bad model (which would be fully in line with my usual luck), or if LCDs in general still have a way to go before reaching CRT-level viewing quality.

I'm afraid that this is due to the inherent flaws in the type of panel that you chose. Your Samsung T220 has a 6-bit TN panel. While this type is the cheapest and has the fastest response time, it also has a reduced color gamut and the horrible viewing angles that you mentioned. I should have mentioned this before you bought it, but I made the mistake of assuming that you already knew about this stuff. My bad.

 

The other main panel types are VA (which includes PVA and MVA) and IPS. Both types are 8-bit and capable of displaying true color without dithering. They also have a much wider viewing angle. They are, of course, more expensive (IPS is a lot more expensive) and have drawbacks of their own, but they are generally much better than TN as far as image quality is concerned. One of their main drawbacks is that they are generally only available in panel sizes of 24" or larger. Here is an general explanation of the different panel types.

 

One thing that you can do is get the most out of your monitor by properly calibrating it. Forget about the factory presets. Chances are that they are way, way too bright, and that the colors are oversaturated to compensate for all of that brightness. While this is good for in-store display purposes it is not good for general use because staring at a monitor that is too bright for hours on end can be very harmful to your eyes. It should only be just bright enough to be easily viewable in a well-lit room and no more.

 

Start out by setting your video driver's color control to the default settings, and darken the room that you're in. Then visit this site and run through the tests. AFAIK, this site is the ultimate LCD monitor calibration tool. You're probably going to have to lower both brightness and contrast a lot. Use the adjustments on your monitor first to get the settings to as close to perfect as possible before you even touch your driver control panel's adjustments. That way you'll end up with the best contrast.

 

Be warned: this is going to take a lot of time, fiddling, cussing and eyestrain to get it right, and you will never get it perfect because of that TN panel's limitations. While testing, try to sit in the same position that you will be in while viewing the monitor for the majority of the time that you'll be using it because that terrible viewing angle is going to drastically effect these tests. What I do is scroll the pages so that 2.2 in the gamma test, the darkest set of squares in the black level test and the lightest set of squares in the white saturation test are in the middle of the screen while I'm making adjustments. In a nutshell, you're just going to have to find the best compromise that you can while still passing both the black level and white saturation tests. By passing, I mean being able to see the darkest square in the black level test and the lightest square pattern in the white saturation test without having to stare at them. If my cheap-a$$ed Acer AL2216W can do it, I'm pretty sure that your Samsung T220 can.

 

In order to achieve the best contrast, you're probably going to end up with dingy, grayish whites. It's just a limitation of the technology. You'll get used to it, and you won't even notice it after a couple of days.

 

Games seem to be a mixed bag as well. Some games that didn't work so well on my old computer seems to be running a lot better on the new one, like Mass Effect and Neverwinter Nights 2, though I still need to use medium graphics settings in NWN2 to get playable frame rates. At least other games can be run with all settings turned up with good performance, and I managed to play Mass Effect for 4 hours straight with no lockups, hickups or crashes.

 

Other games that I never had any problems with on my old computer seems a lot less reliable on this new one, like Bioshock and Guild Wars. The former crashes after like 5 minutes or play, while the latter sometimes freezes during area transitions forcing me to reboot the computer. I also get some weird noise flickering over the screen image when playing some games. Tried playing Tomb Raider:Underworld, but that seemed to make the graphics card flip out, giving me a screenfull of green lines followed by a crash after just playing for a few minutes. I managed to just barely get through the first tutorial area, but crashed on the boat before I even had time to jump into the water.

 

In summary it seems to be the same old story repeating over and over. While some things get better when upgrading to a new computer there are always tons of problems and things can never ever just work as intended. A bit tiring, but I guess it's a natural law or something.

There have been a lot of reports going around the interwebs about the problems that the newer drivers from both ATI and Nvidia are having with older games, but you should not be experiencing any problems with the newer ones like Bioshock.

 

I do have a very possible solution, but I doubt that you'll want to hear it. I've tried to be polite about this before and you ignored me, so I guess that I'm going to have to be blunt this time around:

 

Do you seriously expect everything to be hunky-dorey and for everything to run flawlessly on an XP install that's, what, how many years old now, and has been transferred to how many very different systems, each with very different hardware, now? C'mon, stoffe! Surely you know better than that!

 

So please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST REFORMAT AND GIVE THAT POOR MACHINE A FRESH INSTALL OF XP!

 

At the very, very least it would eliminate a corrupted OS install as a possible cause of the issues that you're experiencing.

[Darth333]

Sorry for the monitor issue. I have the t224 and I love it. The TN panels have improved greatly since a few years and I do not find that the viewing angles are an issue, contrary to my previous Samsung 226BW.

 

Other games that I never had any problems with on my old computer seems a lot less reliable on this new one, like Bioshock and Guild Wars. The former crashes after like 5 minutes or play, while the latter sometimes freezes during area transitions forcing me to reboot the computer. I also get some weird noise flickering over the screen image when playing some games. Tried playing Tomb Raider:Underworld, but that seemed to make the graphics card flip out, giving me a screenfull of green lines followed by a crash after just playing for a few minutes. I managed to just barely get through the first tutorial area, but crashed on the boat before I even had time to jump into the water.

Is everything up to date? I am using the latest drivers with my radeon 4870 and have tried Bioshock recently and have had no real problems (I install the strict minimum on my PC and there's very few things running in the background).

 

Install the latest directx version as well if you don't have it. Update audio drivers too.

 

As indicated by Qliveur , maybe a new OS installation could help? If you want a lighter solution, you can try a clean boot when you intend to use your PC for gaming to ensure that only the necessary applications running in the background. I also recommend checking the official forums for the games that are giving you some trouble: sometimes, DRM protection tends to be capricious and there can be other known issues specific to a game (such as codec issues, peripherals, etc.)

[Q]

stoffe:

 

You may or may not be interested in anything I have to say after my last post in this thread (I do hope that you weren't offended by my bluntness ), but I have a possible solution to your monitor problem. As I indicated previously, the (very) annoying faults with your T220 that you have noted are inherent limitations of TN panel technology and there is no way around them ATM. The only solution would be the purchase of a better grade of panel, and that's the subject of this post.

 

The Dell UltraSharp 2209WA has very recently (within the past couple of days) become available. What's so special about this 22-incher? Well, unlike every other 22" model it's an IPS panel, which is the highest grade of LCD on the market. This means that it sports a full 8-bit color gamut (compared to the TN's 6-bit with dithering) and has the widest (178°, in both the vertical and horizontal axes) viewing angle of any LCD panel type. It's contrast ratio is far, far superior to that of TN panels and it usually doesn't have the response time and input lag problems associated with the VA types (making it suitable for gaming). Because it's being offered at a very reasonable $300, it's poised to make any and all >$200 22" TN panels (like your T220) obsolete. I would have recommended this model hands-down had it been available when you were building your system.

 

So you'll need to ask yourself if it's worth taking a loss by selling your T220 and buying the 2209WA. To me it would be, because that T220 is among the best 22" TN panels available and would fetch a good price on a site like Fleabay, thereby minimizing the loss that you'll incur, and the benefits of an IPS panel are indisputable because their image quality and viewing angle approach those of a CRT's. Depending on what you paid for your T220, the loss shouldn't be much more than $100, and anyone who knows anything about LCD panels will tell you that upgrading from a TN to an IPS is well worth ~$100. The difference will be night and day.

 

It's definitely worth considering, IMO.