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Does anybody really believe in Creationism (sorry, Intelligent Design) anymore?

EnderWiggin

By EnderWiggin
in Senate Chambers

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Tommycat Newbie

Tommycat

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Actually Ender, what you believe in is Intelligent Design. God working through nature.

 

And yes some people still believe in a 6000 year old Earth. Not taking into account the possibility that the six days could mean 6 non-Earth days to God. To something that exists outside our perception of time, 6 days could mean a great many things.

 

Interesting to note that the Hebrew word used for day could also be used to represent era.

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SkinWalker Newbie

SkinWalker

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QFT/E.

 

That often tends to be the problem with ancient literature/languages and how they are interpreted in modern times.

 

Interestingly enough, the Hebrew word poth literally means "hinged opening." Yet in a verse found in Isaiah we can read, "[t]herefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will lay bare their foreheads."

 

"Foreheads" is inserted in the translation I was reading where, in Hebrew it says, poth! Now go back and re-insert the literal translation, "hinged-openings" in place of foreheads. The translators were so put off by this, they purposely and intentionally redacted the original context to the point that many sermons are spoke that talk about the act of shaving heads when what's really said in the bible is the Christian god exposed their vaginas.

 

It isn't hard to imagine that people have been inserting whatever they want in biblical mythology over the years.

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Sabretooth Newbie

Sabretooth

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Does anyone actually still think that Intelligent Design is a winning theory?

 

I mean, it's one thing to believe God worked through evolution (which I do) but how do you say that God created us 6000 years ago with a straight face?

I just thought I should chip in that my mom, among many other people I know here find it surprising that a country as developed as the United States should have problems between hardline atheists on one side and people claiming that the world is 6000 years old on the other. >.<

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Tommycat Newbie

Tommycat

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I find it surprising too, but I guess I don't see the problem with there being any "hardline" atheists here. It implies that there is something wrong with that position :p

 

says the hardline atheist.

 

Actually Skin, remember when you're talking about the original Hebrew, you are talking about the Jewish god as well as the Christian god. The New Testament was written in Greek. You would be more correct if you said Judeo-Christian though as the god is shared between the two faiths.

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Tommycat Newbie

Tommycat

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Not completely Skin, As mentioned elsewhere God appeared to have changed between the Torah and the New Testament. In the Old Testament, that god was a vengeful angry god. However in the New Testament he changed into a squishy lovable god. So when referencing god per the old testament you should be more specific. Or, you could just write out YHWH and not have to worry about stating explicitly Judeo-Christian as the name would imply it. Technically the REASON behind Christ being born was so we didn't have to do all the crap from the OT. Most Christians don't even understand that much though. They follow the Church though Jesus was opposed to the Church....

 

It really makes a difference when you are talking about translations as well. If you are talking about translating from Hebrew, you are talking about the old testament, well more specifically the Torah. When you say Christian God, you are talking about both the Torah and the books written in Greek by the Apostles. I would think someone in the field you are in would have a better grasp of knowing which translation to use.

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mimartin Newbie

mimartin

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Actually Ender, what you believe in is Intelligent Design. God working through nature.
Does he? Does that stand for all that describe themselves as Christians?

 

I’m a Christian that does not believe in Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design is merely a fake attempt at a theory in order circumvent a losing battle and get Creationism taught in schools.

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SkinWalker Newbie

SkinWalker

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Its still the same god. Yahweh didn't step out for "God" in a tag-team style match. They're the same guy. The fact that Judeo-Christian literature and mythology reads like a different god is because the perception of this god evolved with the zeitgeist of the moment. This is easy to do when the god isn't really there to begin with and Jews/Christians/Muslims weren't the first to experience evolutions in their deity. Other cultures have as well.

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Tommycat Newbie

Tommycat

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Its still the same god. Yahweh didn't step out for "God" in a tag-team style match. They're the same guy. The fact that Judeo-Christian literature and mythology reads like a different god is because the perception of this god evolved with the zeitgeist of the moment. This is easy to do when the god isn't really there to begin with and Jews/Christians/Muslims weren't the first to experience evolutions in their deity. Other cultures have as well.

 

Because BOTH religions still exist. One sacred text is used in both, since you are talking about a text that does not recognize Jesus the Christ(the original Hebrew Torah) it is incorrect to call the god the Christian god. The Torah is included in the Bible, but it is still the primary text of a religion that does not recognize the Christian faith as part of it's own and therefore using the term Christian in translations of the Torah is incorrect.

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EnderWiggin Newbie

EnderWiggin

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Actually Ender, what you believe in is Intelligent Design. God working through nature.

 

Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause' date=' not an undirected process such as natural selection."[1'][2]

 

Maybe in a roundabout sense I believe that God designed the universe, but in the modern sense, I do not believe in Intelligent Design (ie that God said, oh, let's take this rib and put it into Eve, let's make a serpent, let's make the animals and the fishes).

 

Intelligent Design opposes evolution, which I obviously agree with. So thank you for trying to explain to me my beliefs, but for the most part, I can handle it.

 

I believe that God wrote the rules to the game, but how the universe is played is not his doing. TBH, I'm actually more of a deist (ie the "watchmaker" theory) than anything.

 

_EW_

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Samuel Dravis Newbie

Samuel Dravis

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I read an interesting paper on this today, actually. The paper asserts that while it was acceptable at one time to posit theistic interventionism (i.e., intelligent design, etc), such explanations are no longer sufficiently comparable to the explanatory power of naturalism to be held seriously, even by theists.

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Achilles Newbie

Achilles

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They're compatibility depends largely on perspective.

 

From a strictly scientific perspective, adding the religious component is untestable and unnecessary. Sure, it could have been god, but there's no reason to accept that hypothesis and the model works just fine without him/her/it/them.

 

From a moderate/liberal/deist perspective, the science is undeniable, however personal belief favors accepting that god did have a role, regardless of whether the "extra step" is necessary or not.

 

From a fundamentalist perspective, the bible says god did it. Any one that says differently is wrong. End of discussion.

 

If the fundamentalists didn't exist, I'd probably be able to take it a little bit easier on the moderates/liberals/deists. Unfortunately, they do, and the Culture War wages on. :(

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Achilles Newbie

Achilles

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The thing is you can argue that God can use natural events to cause other things to happen. Like say have a volcano go off in location X to cause a rain of fire to occur in location Y.
You sure can, but if you know that natural events happen...err, naturally, then why? We know the mechanics behind volcanoes. We don't need god in order to explain them. So why add unnecessary steps which cannot be confirmed or ruled out?
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Alexrd Rookie

Alexrd

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Maybe in a roundabout sense I believe that God designed the universe, but in the modern sense, I do not believe in Intelligent Design (ie that God said, oh, let's take this rib and put it into Eve, let's make a serpent, let's make the animals and the fishes).

 

No. What you believe is Intelligent Design. What you've mencioned as "(ie that God said, oh, let's take this rib and put it into Eve, let's make a serpent, let's make the animals and the fishes)" is Creationism.

 

Intelligent Design opposes evolution, which I obviously agree with. So thank you for trying to explain to me my beliefs, but for the most part, I can handle it.

 

It doesn't opposes evolution. Instead, Intelligent Design justifies the creation of the universe to be God's creation. (ie that God created the Big Bang).

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