US Health Care Reform

[Jae Onasi]

That would be far more understandable IF this actually covered the uninsured. It doesn't. It's HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS to essentially make people who MAY or MAY NOT be able to get insurance. I mean we're talking some real money here. Then again, what does the government care. They have deep pockets because they are reaching into ours.

 

This bill is pure rubbish. It's more like half a bill.

 

I also prefer paying state governments for services. While there may be corruption at the state level, at least it's less likely to go to something that I will never need nor see. Funny how funding tends to get sent to states that $PARTY needs votes from. Diverted from say adding a hospital to making a nose hair monument or something equally useless...

I would generally agree with you if I hadn't had experience dealing with patients and payments from both Medicaid (state run) and Medicare (federal run). Medicare is far and away much better for coverage and payment. Medicaid just plain sucks for payments (i.e. it actually costs us money to see a Medicaid patient because the insurance payment is less than our costs of doing business) and getting approval for various procedures is a total pain in the butt. The state delays payments for months or just plain doesn't cover at all, and there's nothing you can do about it. On top of that, the paperwork for Medicare is streamlined (as much as any insurance paperwork can be), and it is horrendous for Medicaid. I'd never get filthy rich seeing Medicare patients, but at least I can make a fair wage for my work. I can't even stay in business with Medicaid.

[Tommycat]

I would generally agree with you if I hadn't had experience dealing with patients and payments from both Medicaid (state run) and Medicare (federal run). Medicare is far and away much better for coverage and payment. Medicaid just plain sucks for payments (i.e. it actually costs us money to see a Medicaid patient because the insurance payment is less than our costs of doing business) and getting approval for various procedures is a total pain in the butt. The state delays payments for months or just plain doesn't cover at all, and there's nothing you can do about it. On top of that, the paperwork for Medicare is streamlined (as much as any insurance paperwork can be), and it is horrendous for Medicaid. I'd never get filthy rich seeing Medicare patients, but at least I can make a fair wage for my work. I can't even stay in business with Medicaid.

 

Perhaps that's part of what has colored my vision, Here in AZ, we have AHCCCS(Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System) and at least on the surface seems to work quite well. Perhaps if other states adopted our method. But then it would involve making choices on who your local representatives are. While YOU may be informed enough to put in that much effort, your fellow citizens may not be. They just keep re-electing the same failure politicians who put lining their pockets above the healthcare of the average joe. Access is pretty successful here. Then again, we have significantly fewer people here than there.

 

Of course that again is part of the reason I don't like the fed getting involved. I mean just because YOUR state can't budget in medicaid, why should MY state have to pick up the slack? Especially when YOUR state has more people making more money?

[Jae Onasi]

Of course that again is part of the reason I don't like the fed getting involved. I mean just because YOUR state can't budget in medicaid, why should MY state have to pick up the slack? Especially when YOUR state has more people making more money?

 

I've experienced Medicaid failures in multiple states--Kansas, Ohio, Wisconsin, and particularly Illinois (where lovely Blagojevich just decided not to pay anyone for over 6 months before he go booted out of office). Despite all the problems the fed can have, they're at least doing Medicare a lot better than states are doing Medicaid. I haven't analyzed why that is yet, I just know that's what's happening here in the trenches.

[El Sitherino]

Of course that again is part of the reason I don't like the fed getting involved. I mean just because YOUR state can't budget in medicaid, why should MY state have to pick up the slack? Especially when YOUR state has more people making more money?

Because that's part of being United States of America? Kind of like a family helps each other out, regardless of who sees benefit?

[Tommycat]

Because that's part of being United States of America? Kind of like a family helps each other out, regardless of who sees benefit?

 

Not really. More like your crappy neighbor that can't pay their bills but can afford to keep having parties.

 

And SINCE we're talking about the United States, we also seem to be leaving out the States part as well. Being individual states we are allowed to have our own state budgets. We have our own needs. The medical needs of California are not the same as the needs of AZ. Let CA handle their needs. If they need more health care funds, they need to find the money in their budgets.

[El Sitherino]

Not really. More like your crappy neighbor that can't pay their bills but can afford to keep having parties.

[/Quote]

Actually I think that would be what foreign aid qualifies as, since as American citizens we're to consider eachother like a family...

 

And SINCE we're talking about the United States, we also seem to be leaving out the States part as well. Being individual states we are allowed to have our own state budgets. We have our own needs. The medical needs of California are not the same as the needs of AZ. Let CA handle their needs. If they need more health care funds, they need to find the money in their budgets.

I guess you'd like to go back to the days of ineffective government where we had the Articles of Confederation. There's a reason that we established it as the Federal government determines the minimums and the State governments can elaborate further on the matter, that's because we can't continue to have legislation that effectively dismantles our unification as a nation. If we're all effectively different countries then we aren't very united.

[Totenkopf]

Because that's part of being United States of America? Kind of like a family helps each other out, regardless of who sees benefit?

 

So, if you had a family member that was stiffing his creditors and obligations to squander his money on junk, you'd natually step in and fill the gap to keep him solvent w/o forcing him to change his ways? If you wouldn't, would you be crazy about the govt forcing you too?

[El Sitherino]

So, if you had a family member that was stiffing his creditors and obligations to squander his money on junk, you'd natually step in and fill the gap to keep him solvent w/o forcing him to change his ways? If you wouldn't, would you be crazy about the govt forcing you too?

 

I'm pretty sure I can provide both financial assistance and lessons for a family member to improve their life. I'm not sure why everyone thinks helping people financially automatically means just throwing money at problems and expecting them to go away. Never in my life have I believed throwing money at something makes problems go away, nor have I ever suggested the notion that it does. There are things like stipulations, conditions, whatever you wish to call them. This is what I've always offered even homeless people I give charity to.

 

Help comes in many forms, like the old proverb goes; Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he feeds himself for a lifetime.

 

I like to think of my financial support as the additional investment of a fishing pole.

[urluckyday]

^I like the way you think.

 

It's just like having a benefit as part of a career where if there's ever a time where you are laid off, you don't get a stipend for however many months, but rather you get a college education paid for (theres a guy like this @ my school). This ensures that the former employee can continue to grow and keep opportunities open...

 

That's the kind of incentive a health insurance company should offer to its users...

[Totenkopf]

@Sithy---wasn't assuming you axiomatically just "gave till it hurt, and then some" but put that question to you in the context of the metaphor you were using. So, given your stated position, what exactly do you expect states like CA to do before they come running to the rest of us to make up for their budget deficits via federal handouts/bail outs?

[Tommycat]

I'm pretty sure I can provide both financial assistance and lessons for a family member to improve their life. I'm not sure why everyone thinks helping people financially automatically means just throwing money at problems and expecting them to go away. Never in my life have I believed throwing money at something makes problems go away, nor have I ever suggested the notion that it does. There are things like stipulations, conditions, whatever you wish to call them. This is what I've always offered even homeless people I give charity to.

 

Help comes in many forms, like the old proverb goes; Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he feeds himself for a lifetime.

 

I like to think of my financial support as the additional investment of a fishing pole.

 

problem with your metaphor, we're not giving lessons, just money. In California's case much of their problem is self inflicted. California is like an addict(not singling CA out on purpose, I actually happen to like CA) in that they have these self inflicted problems that they can't change easily. but they will be receiving the funds regardless.

 

Course AZ is $1.6B over budget... So I guess I can't be too high and mighty...

[urluckyday]

I was watching Glenn Beck (yes I know, don't hound me but I do actually think he makes some good unbiased points at times). This time was about Obama's view that healthcare is a right for Americans. He believes that the only rights that the Constitution outlines are rights that God can give people and the Constitution merely explains this rather than giving rights to people. I agree with Beck in this sense.

I do not believe that healthcare is a right and should be given as a right by the government.

Do you think that healthcare is a right?

[Darth Avlectus]

Depends how deeply into the semantics you want to get in this. While good health could arguably be said to be part of the right to the pursuit of happiness, good health and healthcare are two separate things, if eventually coming around and correlating.

 

Also so far as CA: this state almost never refuses anyone. In fact, one major problem we're having is that procedures which are supposed to be checked to see if they're covered by third party (insurance or government department) BEFOREHAND, are not checked. The procedure is done only to reveal after the fact "wait a minute, this isn't covered, we want payment from you the patient and we want it right now on our terms. Gimmie gimmie gimmie". This is why we have so many lawsuits. Which in turn has attracted all sorts of parasites that do these frivolous lawsuits.

 

Carry on.

 

EDIT: Every time we try to put stipulation, condition, or some kind of requirement on this, however, one side has a fit calling it unethical, immoral, cruel and inhumane. So it just keeps ending up as throwing money at the problem, or idle hands doing nothing. Neither of these seem to be working out too well, either.

[Ghost]

I live in California, and yet still the health insurance sucks. The Blue Cross I have determined is probably going to have to have major reforms. Here are things that I think the reform needs to touch:

 

A. Blue Cross once charged me for an emergency room visit when it was an urgent care visit, big difference. I think this is just a scam of stupidity to get more money for those tards.

 

B. A lot of health insurance companies, especially the big ones, are picky. Some are racist, some are sexist. For example, the Blue Cross payed for *most* of my hospitial bills no problem, but for my mom they won't pay a penny, only for things related to birth-giving. My mom got really sick once and no health insurance companies gave a ****. I sure hope Obama nails BC.

 

Thats my input on this issue