newsfeed: Preview Roundup: What We Learned

[News]

We’ve seen previews all across the web today, revealing new information from hands-on play sessions with Star Wars: The Old Republic. Let us take a look at what we have learned from each of them.Jedi Consular: Officially announced after being revealed in PC Games magazine, the Jedi Consular is the second of two Jedi [...]

 

Read the full story at starwarsmmo.net...

[jrrtoken]

I'm hastily finding TOR to be more and more of an MMOARPG than a more well-balanced experience, unfortunately. All that I've seen has been concerning combat, to the point where I'm beginning to believe that this is more of a dungeon crawler than anything else.

[Hallucination]

^I'm going to go out and say that the combat in the KotOR games wasn't revolutionary.

[Alkonium]

One of the Smuggler's specialisations is called Gunslinger? That seals the deal for me right there.

[Jeff]

I'm hastily finding TOR to be more and more of an MMOARPG than a more well-balanced experience, unfortunately. All that I've seen has been concerning combat, to the point where I'm beginning to believe that this is more of a dungeon crawler than anything else.

The "one click per action" did make me think of Diablo, but to me that isn't a bad thing (can't say if it's good till I get my hands on it). Diablo-esque games typically don't have much of a story though, something we know to be the opposite in TOR.

[jrrtoken]

^I'm going to go out and say that the combat in the KotOR games wasn't revolutionary.

Of course not, nor what was it highly strategic or entertaining, at that matter.

 

In all seriousness, the only substantial aspect that BioWare has marketed has been "COMBAT, COMBAT, COMBAT". NPC & PC interaction has only been mentioned a relatively minute number of occasions, to the point where I find that the only difference between the classes will be combat techniques, bar none.

[Hallucination]

^I think they are doing that because a large part of MMO's is their gameplay, and combat is a big factor for that, particularly after people get bored of questing/start PvPing or raiding. And according to BW the storylines are completely unique, so I would consider that a difference.

[jrrtoken]

^I think they are doing that because a large part of MMO's is their gameplay, and combat is a big factor for that, particularly after people get bored of questing/start PvPing or raiding.

That's the only reason I could fathom, even though every quest will essentially involve combat at one point or another, however. I think it would be fine to make the combat more entertaining and strategic, rather than a tiresome exercise bearing no fruit. I'd bet that it would eventually become just that when presented with an arcade of enemies, as per the first demo.

And according to BW the storylines are completely unique, so I would consider that a difference.

To be honest, I'm not really enthusiastic of that. From from what I've ascertained, quests are essentially identical to each other regardless of class. The same can be said about the incessant mentioning of the l'innovation de jure that is voice-acting and dialogue sequences, the such that seems to just obfuscate generic quest design. For example:

Naturally they’re not friendly pooches and will aggro within a few feet. The Old Republic throws the odd MMORPG staple side-quest at you, one of which includes a kill/collect requirement featuring standard Tuk’ata, but we got a real taste of a potentially ground-breaking experience while on a mission to hunt a mutant of this species. Our introduction to the story mission justified the voice over that’s been lauded over the last few months. It’s just like BioWare to defy archetypes where it can and pencil moustache aside, you wouldn’t have matched the clipped English accent with the broad-shouldered, corpulent Lord Renning. As with every NPC we interacted with, the voice-acting for this character was of Hollywood standard, but it’s the dialogue that had us really excited.

Translation: The above is another FedEx quest, only bundled in a SPRPG-friendly foil wrapper. Really, if the dialogue was ultra-enthralling, then perhaps I might be able to forgo the quest of banality. But... the quest doesn't seem rather entertaining at the get-go, so why bother wasting my time with a candy-coated foreward? Then again, I'm sure that the dialogue won't be verily outstanding either, ergo, there's not much of a reason for enjoyment, regardless.

 

Further proof:

You mentioned the story, the full voice acting and so on and so forth. Historically with MMOs a lot of players skip over this stuff just to get on with the quests. Are you worried that you're going to be working on all of this in vain, or do you think people are actually going to pay a lot of attention to it?

No, I don't think so, and here's the reason why. Up until now most storytelling in MMOs has been basically done through a single method, and that's – a text blurb shows up on screen in front of a character who's just standing there waiting for you to come and, you know, give you a quest to kill 12 things. And the fact is, that's not very compelling. Like, have you ever read a book where that happens, or seen a movie where two – no, no. Story is something that unfolds over time, where you meet characters that are interesting, where you develop relationships with them, and that's what we're trying to do in this game, and I think that's going to get people into it. And the fact that it's fully voiceovered and that they have facial animations – they feel like real characters that you want to interact with. The reason people skip over it, and I skip over it myself when I play MMOs, is it's just that it's not very compelling. It's hard to tell a story in a text blurb that pops up in front of someone. It's much easier to tell a story when you have a character that is fully animated, fully developed, and that can develop over time.

This is more telling; more emphasis seems to be placed on the frills and presentation of the gameplay, rather than the gameplay itself. While some might say "Presentation equates to comprehensive gameplay", if ones uses the same formulae in "cinematic"-less incidents, then there is no differentiation between a game that features text-based bitmaps and one that incorporates anti-aliased, anisotropied polygons, so to speak.

[Jeff]

Re: class stories all seeming the same: If you mean the flash point sequence we saw in the E3 / Gamescom demo they showed off, that is a group quest. Basically, there is your individual class story which is single player, and then there are group quests like that flash point which are separate from your individual story. Don't remember which of the previews that was detailed in, but that is the just of it. I suppose the few single player quests we've seen are similar, for example both the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor seemed to be sent into a tomb to kill some stuff and find an artifact as one of their early quests. But I don't expect that to be representative of what the overall class story wll be like.

[Hallucination]

Translation: The above is another FedEx quest, only bundled in a SPRPG-friendly foil wrapper. Really, if the dialogue was ultra-enthralling, then perhaps I might be able to forgo the quest of banality. But... the quest doesn't seem rather entertaining at the get-go, so why bother wasting my time with a candy-coated foreward? Then again, I'm sure that the dialogue won't be verily outstanding either, ergo, there's not much of a reason for enjoyment, regardless.

I'm going to assume that you liked playing K1/K2 and that's the main thing you're comparing TOR to, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. But in those games, the quests were by and large running from point X to point Y to either kill your way to a dude to kill him, kill your way to some stuff to take, or to kill your way to a dude to kill him and take his stuff. Unless you think killing dudes and taking stuff was much more interesting in K1/2, what was interesting was how you interacted with the NPC's, which we haven't really seen in the game so far. Wouldn't it be logical to expect that the Sith disobeying orders and agreeing with the captain would lead you to a different course of action than killing him? Is there really any reason to expect that all there will be afterwards is more pew pewing?

 

Further proof:This is more telling; more emphasis seems to be placed on the frills and presentation of the gameplay, rather than the gameplay itself. While some might say "Presentation equates to comprehensive gameplay", if ones uses the same formulae in "cinematic"-less incidents, then there is no differentiation between a game that features text-based bitmaps and one that incorporates anti-aliased, anisotropied polygons, so to speak.

Again, what they seem to be stumbling to say is that they want the dialogue to be interesting and influence what you'll be doing, not just be a bow on top of couriering and pew pewing.

[True_Avery]

Every RPG I've -ever- played as been "Generic quest design", as well as every game. You are basically a human wrecking ball and someone tells you to wreck a certain area and all those area. Once you get there you can kill kill kill, or talk, then possibly kill. You either kill your target, kill the quest giver after finding the "truth", help the target, or kill a third party and everyone is happy.

 

Only thing that makes any RPG any different from another is the story and dialogue. If you can enjoy the story, and get into the dialogue and NPCs then you overlook the fact you are basically doing a fetch quest for them. And it is pretty easy to forget, since 99% of quests in all RPGs are fetch and/or kill that thing over there quests.

 

aaaaaaaand finally your ability to immerse yourself into this and forget the fact you're essentially doing fetch quests for 60 hours is based pretty much entirely around how much you're willing to allow to be shoveled down your throat. If anyone is expecting anything mind blowing out of a Star Wars game as far as dialogue goes... well, gotta say you are a fan of the wrong franchise...

 

I could go with combat being a little more entertaining (like, say up to Tabula Rasa or Champion's Online standards), but I can forgive shoddy combat as long as the game caters to my OCD and social needs.

[jrrtoken]

I'm going to assume that you liked playing K1/K2 and that's the main thing you're comparing TOR to, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. But in those games, the quests were by and large running from point X to point Y to either kill your way to a dude to kill him, kill your way to some stuff to take, or to kill your way to a dude to kill him and take his stuff. Unless you think killing dudes and taking stuff was much more interesting in K1/2, what was interesting was how you interacted with the NPC's, which we haven't really seen in the game so far.

Of course. That didn't pigeon-hole design to a linear romp, nor did it disallow any "twists" to the formula. Either way, combat could be avoided altogether in some scenarios, or combat could be fought through alternative, impersonal means.

Again, what they seem to be stumbling to say is that they want the dialogue to be interesting and influence what you'll be doing, not just be a bow on top of couriering and pew pewing.

Naturally, and I feel that that's a welcome step forward. What I do not care for is the colossal advertisement of the "cinematics", and that they revolutionize the genre, bar none. It's much as if comparing a 2D isometric RPG to a 3D one (Baldur's Gate to NWN, respectively); it may have different graphics, but it has the same gameplay forumlae.

aaaaaaaand finally your ability to immerse yourself into this and forget the fact you're essentially doing fetch quests for 60 hours is based pretty much entirely around how much you're willing to allow to be shoveled down your throat. If anyone is expecting anything mind blowing out of a Star Wars game as far as dialogue goes... well, gotta say you are a fan of the wrong franchise...

Funni, last I played a Star Wars game, I thought it had quite good dialogue. But I digress...

[Jeff]

Tabula Rasa

LOL

 

That is literally the worst MMO of all time, I don't think we want TOR to have anything in common with it.

[Hallucination]

What I do not care for is the colossal advertisement of the "cinematics", and that they revolutionize the genre, bar none. It's much as if comparing a 2D isometric RPG to a 3D one (Baldur's Gate to NWN, respectively); it may have different graphics, but it has the same gameplay forumlae.

I don't remember hearing them say the game is based on cinematics, only that they want a cinematic experience, as in PC-NPC interactions are smooth and flowing like a movie. Or a real conversation.

 

@Jeff: I think you mean it was the worst MMO of all time.

[Jeff]

I don't remember hearing them say the game is based on cinematics, only that they want a cinematic experience, as in PC-NPC interactions are smooth and flowing like a movie. Or a real conversation.

 

@Jeff: I think you mean it was the worst MMO of all time.

Good point.

 

And yeah, I think the cinematic experience they talk about is mostly based on the dialog sequences which will be very similar to Mass Effect, not only because of the wheel dialog selector but the full voice over and important decision making.

[Sir Vougalot]

I would like to add to this discussion that that one Revan-lookalike Sith Lord from the trailer appears to be one of many Sith with the same uniform. I just received my issue of PC Gamer in the mail, which came with a 2010 The Old Republic calendar that has an image that shows this to be true. There are tons of those guys.

 

So we have no one "Revan," but dozens! Hoo boy . . .

[True_Avery]

LOL

 

That is literally the worst MMO of all time, I don't think we want TOR to have anything in common with it.

The entire gaming experience was very poor, but its combat system at least tried something new and I thought did it well. Champion's Online gives the option for the same shooting system, which I think would work rather well in the Star Wars shooter classes.