The Confirmed Truth Behind Revan & Malak

[Lord Foley]

That Revan became a Sith as a direct result of running into the Sith in the Unknown Regions is a concept that tons of people already believed anyway. Besides, it takes Revan's awesomeness down a few notches in the best way possible - I guess he wasn't completely true to himself all along, after all (if the idea's that distasteful then you can just say he began his own agenda after being sent back to known space by the Sith, anyway, so nothing is actually lost). TOR may be ****ing up previously established canon, but at least it's not being discriminatory about it; the rain falls on the just and on the unjust, as they say.

 

The idea of the secret Sith Empire is not outright stupid because of Revan, but because "secret" Empires seem pretty freaking ridiculous. They should seriously consider renaming the Unknown Regions the Plot Device Regions. Need a new story? New enemy appears from Plot Device Regions. Need a resolution? The secret is in the Plot Device Regions. Need someone to disappear? They travelled to the Plot Device Regions.

 

And it's not just Kreia's opinion of Revan, there's everyone in the first game- the Masters talking about how he defied them, or the Disciple in TSL who says the same. We also know for sure, regardless of the decisions you make in-game, that Revan is supposed to be very intelligent. Canderous talks about how Revan was the only Jedi bold enough to take real action against the Mandolorians. And Kreia certainly has an inflated opinion, but even that's got to based somewhere in reality. Having Revan be nothing but a tool is silly because he clearly wanted to be his own boss, regardless of whether one thinks he "never fell" or was corrupted like anyone else.

[Sir Vougalot]

Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

 

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.

[Gurges-Ahter]

Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

 

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.

 

I've grown to appreciate Malak more since my first playthrough of KotOR, but I always thought he was kind of weak as a Lord of the Sith-type enemy. Revan's mystery is what makes him appealing to a lot of people. That might be stripped away if we learn too much about his fate in TOR, similar to Boba Fett when we all found out he's just a clone.

 

Also, just comparing Revan and Malak, based on the story we do learn, Revan moved and inspired masses of people (Jedi included) to fight for his cause - Malak just took the reins from him with the sneak attack, and then failed at Revan's hand again later.

[Lord Foley]

Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

 

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.

Revan is talked up by virtually every character in both games. Granted, we can't know too much about his personality because you make his decisions, but we can definitely gather that he was headstrong, clever, and just generally more powerful than Malak. Malak was cool but not terribly interesting- there was no moment for me where he did something unexpected, or where I saw a side of him I didn't know of before. He may have been smart as a commander, but he was single-minded and static. (It might only be that way because we don't get to have any heart-to-hearts with his followers or fans, the way we do Revan's, but either way he's not presented as interesting.)

 

I like Revan because all the different stories of him make him feel very real and dynamic, while still leaving him ultimately an enigma. TKA-001 is definitely right with the fanboys of Revan making him out to be awesome to a retarded level, but I still think him being hyped-up by people in-universe isn't unreasonable; stories always grow in the telling.

 

Edit: And to be more on topic about it, it's not that I think it would be impossible for Revan to have been coerced into helping a pre-existing Sith Empire, it's more that I hate the whole idea of a secret sith empire lying in wait, and including Revan and Malak in this sort of trite failure of an epic would trivialize both KotORs into something so much lesser than what they are now.

[TKA-001]

there was no moment for me where he did something unexpected, or where I saw a side of him I didn't know of before.

What about the time Saul expects Malak to kill him for reporting Calo Nord's failure, and he doesn't?

[Ping]

What about the time Saul expects Malak to kill him for reporting Calo Nord's failure, and he doesn't?

 

The impression I was getting was since Saul failed indirectly, and not directly, was why Malak spared him.

[Lord Foley]

What about the time Saul expects Malak to kill him for reporting Calo Nord's failure, and he doesn't?

 

That may have been mildly surprising, but it doesn't leave him any less one-dimmensional. It proves only that he doesn't have an infantile temper, it doesn't really show any human emotion or motive. He's still all malice, power-hunger, and revenge, even if he can control himself to more effectively crush his enemies.

[TKA-001]

That may have been mildly surprising, but it doesn't leave him any less one-dimmensional.

Sure it does. Everyone says that he's a Chaotic-Evil dumb**** with no sense of actual talent or intelligence in any regard at all (it complements the average fangirl's need to elevate Revan by downgrading the main villain).

[Lord Foley]

Sure it does. Everyone says that he's a Chaotic-Evil dumb**** with no sense of actual talent or intelligence in any regard at all (it complements the average fangirl's need to elevate Revan by downgrading the main villain).

 

Well, I never really saw Malak that way to begin with. I mean, if Revan the supposedly brilliant tactician had him as his right-hand man, I can't imagine he was anything close to incompetent. What Malak is lacking to me is any really human motive or emotion. He seems preoccupied with being evil for no reason other than dominating everyone. I find that to be something of a let down in character development, especially since this person had been a Jedi Knight until fairly recently.

[Knight Of Honor]

Well, I never really saw Malak that way to begin with. I mean, if Revan the supposedly brilliant tactician had him as his right-hand man, I can't imagine he was anything close to incompetent. What Malak is lacking to me is any really human motive or emotion. He seems preoccupied with being evil for no reason other than dominating everyone. I find that to be something of a let down in character development, especially since this person had been a Jedi Knight until fairly recently.

 

In most fairytales or adventure stories we never really get to dive deep into the main villain characters. They mostly serve only as an obstacle for the hero. Just like we dont really get to know much about Sidious in the Original Trilogy. Sure i agree they should have extrapolated more on Malaks character. But i like Malak. He has been a Jedi all his life, he knows stuff! A superficial fool could NEVER be a Sith Lord.

 

IMO Malak showed some character! We even get to see a shred of his human side just before he died.

 

But remember that Malak was still pretty young, and with all the power he had, you have to expect some boasting and some talk of crushing enemies.

[Lord Foley]

In most fairytales or adventure stories we never really get to dive deep into the main villain characters. They mostly serve only as an obstacle for the hero. Just like we dont really get to know much about Sidious in the Original Trilogy. Sure i agree they should have extrapolated more on Malaks character. But i like Malak. He has been a Jedi all his life, he knows stuff! A superficial fool could NEVER be a Sith Lord.

 

IMO Malak showed some character! We even get to see a shred of his human side just before he died.

 

But remember that Malak was still pretty young, and with all the power he had, you have to expect some boasting and some talk of crushing enemies.

 

Well I mean, that's fair enough, but it doesn't really make anyone unjustified in thinking Revan is a more interesting and developed character. Even if we don't see any direct development of him, a lot of different characters give accounts of how he acted.

[Weavel]

Bastila was instrumental in the last great Republic riposte against Darth Malak and Darth Revan, splitting the pair and conquering one of the Sith Lords. The Jedi Council had learned sketchy details about the Sith plot involving the Star Forge, but needed more information in order to stop it. They crafted a devious and controversial plan into which Bastila Shan figured prominently.

 

The captive Revan underwent a memory wipe, and was given a new identity. This new persona was paired with Bastila Shan in the search for Darth Malak and the Star Forge. Bastila kept a wary eye on Revan, always alert at signs of the dark side. Such an awareness opened her to the dark side more than she intended. The quest for the Star Forge, which spanned worlds, kept Revan and Bastila working side-by-side, and thrust Bastila into difficult and challenging roles as a Jedi.Source.

 

 

Rather than helping his Master, DARTH MALAK lets the Jedi drag Revan from the throne after attempting a mind-wipe which was only partially successful. Returning to the Council with a comatose Revan, Jedi Masters healed Revan's mind, and implanted a loyal Republic personality.

 

 

From what I can see, Kreia's statement that the Jedi wiped his mind and replaced it with a new persona is not a retconn and is referenced in not one, but TWO offical sources, Bastilla even says as much : "What greater weapon is there than to turn your enemy to your cause?"

 

 

Wow. Great thread. It's fantastic to see all the excitement around the KOTOR lore. There is much that we obviously aren’t revealing but I did want to clear up any misconceptions about what I was talking about in the interview.

 

* Revan and Malak went into deep space and met the Sith Emperor. They were turned and sent back to prepare the way for the return of the true Sith.

* Being Sith and away from the Emperor’s direct influence neither Revan nor Malak followed orders exactly as they were supposed to. Then, of course, Malak betrayed Revan.

* The Jedi took in Revan and returned him to the light, though as it was not a natural turn for him when he went dark, there was much they couldn’t undo and they decided to remove his memories and hopefully his taint with it. Yes, Revan’s return to the light (and his gender as male) are canon.

* Later Revan returned to deep space to confront what he knew was out there but how much he actually remembered and how clearly he remembered it is still a mystery, as are the events that followed. What we do know is that it took hundreds of years for the Sith to re-emerge as originally planned.

 

 

This also works fully with TSL, and is along the same lines as the TSL>K1 retconning of Revan's fall.

 

Kreia says that Revan fell to the darkside only so that he could prepare the Republic for the True Sith invasion. Who wants to bet that Revan, after finding Traya after her fall to the darkside, simply came out and told her "Oh and by the way, I met the Sith Emperor, he wants me to prepare the republic for his invasion, but, hehehehe, I'm NOT going to."

 

Kreia herself says she doesn't know everything about it, and that she is also not telling you everything.

 

TSL doesn't **** up KotOR, nor does TOR **** up TSL, both simply add more depth to the previous entry in the franchise.

[Knight Of Honor]

Well I mean, that's fair enough, but it doesn't really make anyone unjustified in thinking Revan is a more interesting and developed character. Even if we don't see any direct development of him, a lot of different characters give accounts of how he acted.

 

I do agree. Revan is one of my all time favorite characters as well. But i hear so much negative Malak criticism around, and i just think its really unfair.

 

 

Weavel

TSL doesn't **** up KotOR, nor does TOR **** up TSL, both simply add more depth to the previous entry in the franchise.

 

TSL do add more depth. Love it! But with TOR they are starting to **** KOTOR & TSL a little. Im afraid this massive project will kill the KOTOR magic, and turn the franchise into a huge cliché, just like the rest of the Star Wars EU.

[Dak Drexl]

I don't see what all the fuss with canon is about. Though we all wish it was, we all know that Star Wars is not real (me being one of the more disappointed by this harsh reality ). None of this actually "happened", so why does everyone care so much about what one guy says "happens"? In my opinion, it's whatever you want it to be. The whole "canon" thing seems to ruin it for a lot of people. I don't care what someone else makes something up to be and I certainly don't let that affect my judgement of it. It's whatever I want it to be. Why all the fuss about canon?