Revan: The Novel Spoilers (Oh god...)

[DeathScepter]

Read the book, it was ok.

 

 

 

Will probably never happen now due to the book. Seems like they just needed to close off that part of the series so fans would have their own adventure in TOR.

 

(plus I saw a video months ago where one of the Bioware guys said there was

no need for a single player rpg because TOR would effectively be kotor 3-10)

 

I'd rather have had 7 additional kotor single player games myself.

 

Have and read the book. Liked Canderous, Lord Scourge and Darth Nyriss the most.

[VeniVidiVicous]

Have and read the book. Liked Canderous, Lord Scourge and Darth Nyriss the most.

 

It was good to get more of an insight into Canderous I agree.

 

Nyriss was cool as for Scourge I thought he was ok, a bit one dimensional if I was to be honest.

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

Aside from his betrayal out of cowardice at the end, the character just reminded me of DK's other popular Sith character Darth Bane.

 

I hope this isn't the last we've seen of Drew karpyshyns work in the video game format. I've really enjoyed the kotor franchise, Darth Bane trilogy and (most importantly to me) the Mass Effect franchise.

[starwarzchick112]

Read it. It sucked. I was in the middle of my first play through of KOTOR 2 when I read it and was like "They killed off MY PC? How could they?":swear:

[DeathScepter]

a part of me believe that Bioware had to have an ending for both Jedi Exile and Revan and have them in TOR in some form to please the fans.

 

Sometimes, Re using characters can be a bad idea.

[Blix]

a part of me believe that Bioware had to have an ending for both Jedi Exile and Revan and have them in TOR in some form to please the fans.

 

Sometimes, Re using characters can be a bad idea.

 

Yea it's better to move on and come up with new characters rather than reuse the same characters. Now if they're going to bring back characters like Bastila and Mission (who I think could have been very useful in TSL) then that['s a different story.

[DeathScepter]

Yea it's better to move on and come up with new characters rather than reuse the same characters. Now if they're going to bring back characters like Bastila and Mission (who I think could have been very useful in TSL) then that['s a different story.

 

I am one of the bigger Revan and Jedi Exile fanboys but I do think that the Novel and their appearance in TOR is a bit much.

 

Big Z, Hk-47 and T3-M4 are understandable in TOR.

 

Wookiees are known for having long lives and Droids with good and regular repairs can long just as long.

[Livingtime]

I read the novel, it was a great read! Overall plot was really nice just... Revan in stasis for 300 years, while not absurd in the Star Wars universe, is a terrible way for him to go. Same goes for The Exile, I don't mind having a name for her and I think its silly for people to cry over it. Revan's birthname is completely pointless though and would destroy his identity. He is known as Revan even in the game albeit not acknowledged a lot, not some guy called [*insert name*]

 

Still I believe there is potential for a KOTOR 3, its probably scrapped by now which is, in my opinion, a waste of a money milker (i'd like to think it would be). It could be set as a prequel: Revan in the Mandalorian Wars. So they haven't entirely written off the KOTOR story!! which makes me somewhat happy xD

 

If I had a wish, it would be Drew re-writes the Revan novel with a more 'glorious' ending that can still tie into the TOR events. Even something like Almost defeating the Emperor like we see in Revenge Of The Sith movie where Mace Windu has Palpatine against the ropes. Actually... WHY DIDN'T WE SEE THAT?! now that baffles the mind! Star Wars love to copy events based on the PT and OT movies!

[The Lord of Chaos]

No, I think having a KotOR III only to see the new PC fail, Revan get captured and the Exile stabbed in the back would rub salt into the wounds of the KotOR fans. Even if they re-wrote the novel, the MMO was based on it. The game ruined any chance of them going back.

[Darth Avlectus]

I suppose I never did give my review of the novel.

 

Obviously, typical of Star Wars fare, it's casual fun reading for the rest of us. The intellectual literary critic who isn't already a fan of star wars will find little here for their tastes. I'm pretty sure Drew Karpyshyn said he wasn't in it for any big worldwide literary awards. He does it for the fun of it. If these novels aren't fun to some people *shrug* whatever floats their boat. If hating on them and us fans is your thing...seems like a kind of masochistic way of getting recognition, but hey, do it if it makes you happy. No malice here.

 

 

Now then. Honestly I cannot really give much more than a catch-22 review. On the one hand, the writing was on the wall with SWTOR in development already by the time this novel was being written so this story really had nowhere else it could go. On the other hand, even as it was it still seemed kind of bare. The flip side is no unnecessary filler.

 

Also as a Tie-in connection story, I found that I wasn't as excited about it as I had been for the author's Darth Bane novel trilogy. Tie-ins usually aren't known for being the greatest. However, I do not blame the author for this.

 

Did it achieve what it set out to do? Yes. He tried not to screw anything up which I am thankful for. Tried not to be too intrusive onto the gameplay outcomes and simply go from established canon.

 

Brought things down to a more realistic level. The characters weren't invincible mega gods. It was more believable.

 

Filled in that 5 year period between the two games a bit, and it held my interest.

 

He even bothered to include

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

Atris and make her unpleasantness seem more compassionate, reasonable, and actually loving of the Exile. That was what drove her to slowly fall as she stewed in her own bitterness and corrupted herself with sith holocrons.

Shows a good character contrast as a function of time. Though I think the author unintentionally reveals a bit about his implicit geopolitical world views using certain terms and contexts. Or maybe that's just me.

 

Also brought the Mandalore arc in TSL along nicely. Better than I imagined, actually. This judging from my perspective that I'm comparing to myself.

 

He did give acknowledgments to KOTOR 1 companion characters and their fates. I did like that.

 

Apparently I'm afraid to have my own opinion, being that I'm a SW fan...wow. So then...

 

The Jedi Exile: Ok, I'm admittedly biased because I actually liked her in the second game even more than Revan in the first (Sorry DK!), and I loved Revan.

This story doesn't do her justice. Not because of the ending she got, but the overall story. For implying she was Sourge's equal in combat, she sure didn't seem very badass. I mean she rebelled from the Order to go fight a war and direct it as a General. In this story she didn't seem like someone who had been through what we saw in TSL. Lacking stoicism maybe. Did she follow Revan before? Yes, however I recall her being just a bit more bold, strong, and opinionated as a character. Seemed like she was more of a tag-along follower, than the Exile I knew. Alas, there may be dialog character choices that support this, I don't know for sure.

While I see that the author was trying to not step on gameplay in other ways and canon (hence he did not outline her fighting style, whereas Scourge used lightsaber from VII Juyo), did she really have to be so muted overall? She was closer to a plot device to put Revan in the MMO.

 

Emperor Vitiate seems similar to Nihilus, though there are distinctions made to differentiate them from each other. Of this trope in particular, I can see other characters from different fiction stories who actually bear many similarities to these two. It really isn't anything too terribly new when you think about it.

Nemesis of Odyssey: Legend of nemesis. Several iterations of Dracula. Warlocks. All following the theme of an abominable being consuming life or energy around them and their pull getting bigger and threatening to consume the known multiverse. Characters who must be stopped for whatever reason.

 

Drew Karpyshyn did alter the Exile's lightsaber color from a previously "established" cyan to blue, and Gave Revan a green lightsaber (among all the others he's had and one he was yet to have). Considering he did similar with Darth bane's lightsaber (hilt and color), I'm beginning to think it's just his style to shake it up a bit on tiny details. I kinda like it, actually.

 

Meetra Surik...The Exile's name. Not the kind of name I'd have chosen but it could be either male or female. Guess it had to be done.

 

 

Scourge seems like an understandable character, and yet I think I should be wary of him in-game.

 

All in all I'm thankful to this author for having made KOTOR what it was. This is about as close to a KOTOR 3 as we'll get unless we count SWTOR. Then THAT is the closest to a KOTOR 3 we'll get. Whatever the case.

 

It was a good story and perhaps only right that the character's creator brought the suspense to an end and revealed Revan's fate. It wasn't exactly how I would have done it and everyone is different with their own ways and opinions.

 

As for what happened to revan in SWTOR...DK said now that he's left EA BioWare that although we see and to an extent play a role in what ultimately became of Revan, the door is open in the future apparently for his "possible" return. Probably nothing yet. This coming from Drew himself. We'll see.

[DeathScepter]

To DarthAvlectus, True it does have good elements. Jedi Exile is one of the weakness of the book. Revan, despite him being a supposed tactical genius, becomes a Leeroy Jeekins when fighting the Sith Emperor.

 

 

Canderous's arch was quite good with or without Revan.

 

 

In my personal opinion, Canderous's arch should be at least a book unto itself and Darth Nyriss and Scourge as a team focus on the Sith Emperor and his mysterious past.

[Darth Avlectus]

To DarthAvlectus, True it does have good elements. Jedi Exile is one of the weakness of the book. Revan, despite him being a supposed tactical genius, becomes a Leeroy Jeekins when fighting the Sith Emperor.

 

LOLZ "Leeeroooooyy nnnJennnkiiiiinnns!"

 

Yeah but the sith emperor could take multiple bodies as his own. I suspect even that RINO, dubya Bush is one of his possessed followers. But fear ye not, fer there be a jedi with Tourettes syndrome out there.

 

 

 

Canderous's arch was quite good with or without Revan.

 

 

In my personal opinion, Canderous's arch should be at least a book unto itself and Darth Nyriss and Scourge as a team focus on the Sith Emperor and his mysterious past.

 

There's a lot of ways it could have gone down. Though I do think, upon examination of it, the irony of Scourge betraying Revan and Meetra Surik strikes a particular irony for which Kreia warned the Exile could happen. Certain things she said in TSL were made lies, or at least speculation, while other things were made richly validated.

[DeathScepter]

Sith Emperor is immortal but he can use the force to mind control many of his servants. His Voices have force bond with him. So he can be safe in one part of the galaxy and still manipulate the Empire as he sees fit.

 

 

Revan and Jedi Exile should have known better. Revan was a Dark Lord and Jedi Exile trained under a Former Dark Lord.

 

I am probaly the biggest fanboy of Revan and Jedi Exile but I do think that Novel should have been better without Revan or Jedi Exile. And expanded the Roles of Canderous, Scourge and Darth Nyriss. Both of the crew of the Ebon Hawk could have be expanded and still have a good story.

[Darth Avlectus]

I guess I'd like to add what I DID like about the novel:

 

1) Revan's development

 

Realism: Although the mary sue syndrome isn't completely gone, this book did much to reduce that perception. When fighting enemies, he was not infallible, and although quite capable he had to struggle and to think fast to get it right.

 

Lack of hubris: I'm sure it's no secret that many players have no shortage of shameless self reflection and sound arrogant for it. DK created Revan and (to my satisfaction) made the character such that although he was indeed great, he wasn't marinating in his own **** over it. He realized he was a mere mortal, a man, and that he "could die tomorrow" so it was important to make his efforts count here and now.

 

His appearance: Although the author said Revan's actual face is not of any in the actual game, Revan's final appearance is most similar to that which I personally would have chosen in the game. The medium length hair namely, and not being of particularly large size but rather average.

 

His combat style: I think Revan was a sort of self stylized fighter. Appearing to use multiple lightsaber forms (Soresu, Shien, Ataru, Niman) and force forms (none specifically hinted at, but his affinity for using force powers somewhat resembles that of Yoda and Qui Gon Jinn), while utilizing hand to hand unarmed combat as well.

 

 

I disliked: his portrayal as having a cosmopolitan city living preference. Personally I'd have preferred he live, maybe not totally rural but somewhere less populated than coruscant. And a cosmopolitan attitude is okay, but his possible views in a socio-political sense are something I'm probably at least somewhat at odds with in a personal sense. But, hey, it isn't an open character for our personal interpretations anymore. This is the author's Revan and his hand was forced, he HAD to create something definitive. It's probably a variation the author's own views, I think. This was also present in the Bane novels but to a much more muted degree. In his Revelations Mass Effect novel it's much more obvious.

There's opinions and I have mine but I'd rather not get into discussing this in more detail here though, as it may cause some friction between fan and author. I'll agree to disagree.

 

 

 

Where I think it could have been improved are

 

Its dealing with HK-47: the story could have covered this just a little bit more.

 

Surik's new Jedi Order might have been in its early stages but could it hurt to have mentioned how they helped get the old republic back on track?

 

What ever became of the Ebon Hawk.

 

 

Anyway I've gone on long enough. I'm thankful for this author having even mde KOTOR in the first place.

[DeathScepter]

To Darth, Revan wasn't a Mary Sue to start with. What of the greater compliants about Revan's supposed tactial genius and his Leeory Jenkins nature during the planning and attack of the Sith Emperor. Due to Scourge being a Sith and Him being a Former Sith, His trust of Scourge is an idiot ball moment. Same with Jedi Exile trusting him as well. there is a difference in using a person to their gain and being naive about their nature. Both of them are students of Kreia; So using people is a part of her Teachings; so is not trusting people fully either.

 

Personally, Between Kotor 3 or a Novel, I rather had a Kotor 3 than a Novel. I don't see the need of the novel in the first place. Revan and Jedi Exile's stories are over before the Novel was even thought of.

 

No I am not angry at Drew. I do think the Novel is very broken based with the fans themselves.

[Darth Avlectus]

To Darth, Revan wasn't a Mary Sue to start with.

Perhaps I did not make clear, it's the fanboyism that made Revan such.

 

What of the greater compliants about Revan's supposed tactial genius and his Leeory Jenkins nature during the planning and attack of the Sith Emperor. Due to Scourge being a Sith and Him being a Former Sith, His trust of Scourge is an idiot ball moment. Same with Jedi Exile trusting him as well. there is a difference in using a person to their gain and being naive about their nature. Both of them are students of Kreia; So using people is a part of her Teachings; so is not trusting people fully either.

 

Can you explain to me what other alternatives there actually were as the story actually stands?

 

While I agree with you on a tactical standpoint, I never got the impression from Revan or the Exile that either one of them particularly trusted their ally. In fact I am petty sure Revan had little to nothing to say to scourge for that very reason in the cave. The Exile also was a hair's breadth away from "whipping out [her] lightsaber, and start chopping off heads" during their rescue mission of Revan from the quarters of Darth Nyriss.

 

As portrayed, Scourge would have preferred that they killed the Sith Emperor but that wasn't likely to happen. He very much regretted and loathed what he had to do both in the immediate and looking back some three centuries later.

 

Plus the theory that the more used the force is by fewer (and really it works that way on the light and the dark), the less there is for others tends to have validity here. Scourge saw Nathema, he came to realize following the Emperor would eventually lead him and all other life to this terrible result. The other Sith were too much more concerned over the infighting with each other. This is by design. Scourge began changing his own views when he realized a Jedi outsider would stand a better chance.

 

Yet even so they proved insufficient for the task. So I think a fair question would be what you would do in Scourge's situation.

 

- Hand picked by the 1 milennia old Emperor Vitiate himself to investigate the darths on the council. So he's got his finger on your pulse and you're currently the best duelist of the empire's underlings

- Nyriss setting you up so that Emperor Vitiate would simply kill you too just to be on the safe side should you decide to betray her.

- The council are, for the most part, each a bit more powerful than you.

- The council are too busy fighting with, and betraying, each other to ever mount a significant threat to Vitiate.

- Vitiate infinitely more powerful than any one of them plus has his own royal guard militia to wipe out anyone he doesn't himself kill.

- Vitiate is planning to attack the Republic soon, like really soon as in the next month or so

- You start noticing the faults of Nyriss

- The minions of Nyriss are nipping at you and looking for any way possible to undermine you

- You're watching over a Jedi master for 5 years who has essentially the same purpose as the council but is unencumbered by unreliable alliances

- another Jedi master comes along just as Nyriss is about to snuff you out if you don't play ball and get roped in to the intrigues of betrayal with the other council members, all while sith minions are gunning for you too.

 

Sure, after rescuing Revan they could have regrouped but don't forget if they tried taking off in the ebon hawk to return to Republic space, everything was on lockdown and martial law by then. They'd have been shot down before they made it off Dromund Kaas, or have been outnumbered and overwhelmed in space.

 

Also the Republic at large is still realing from Malak's destructive campaign by this time. Not to mention weary from a shadow war waged by the sith triumvirate. Plus it was on the verge of economic collapse. G0-T0 may have been a corrupt disloyal droid but he was right about the utterly bad shape of the galaxy. The Republic's forces were still weak and battle weary.

It would not have been prudent to wage yet another war while the Republic was weak and still recovering. Even if it was a preemptive strike.

 

While the Sith Empire was itself isolated and wary of another war with the republic even after a millennium, it was still quite fresh and full of resources and actually was itself ready to go to war. While it was in disarray at this particular moment and would remain so, the Emperor himself had direct control of everything. If the Republic's invasion failed, the rest of the galaxy would be S.O.L.

 

Waiting for the Republic's recovery would have also lost the opportunity to attack. It would taken years to even mount a proper offensive, by which time the Sith Empire would have shored up its own problems.

 

The only advantage I can see this would have brought was making the Republic at large aware of the existence of the Sith Empire.

 

 

So unless I missed something, I really don't see how else it could have worked out.

 

 

 

 

Personally, Between Kotor 3 or a Novel, I rather had a Kotor 3 than a Novel. I don't see the need of the novel in the first place. Revan and Jedi Exile's stories are over before the Novel was even thought of.

 

No I am not angry at Drew. I do think the Novel is very broken based with the fans themselves.

 

Perhaps so. I'm not sure I myself see any reason for this novel as anything more than a tie-in. And a different story could have taken place. Yet this is what we wound up with in reality.

[DeathScepter]

As for me, I am in the Less is more camp comes to Revan and Jedi Exile. Due to there is no way to not piss fans off. Keep in mind I have issues with the Entire Star Wars EU due to Overpowered force users in general. Of Course I do like having strong force users but Not the God Modes as of Vitate, Luke, Sidious and the Ones.

 

 

If I was writing, I would have Revan and Jedi Exile sow the seeds of mutual Destruction of the Sith Council as Much as the Sith Emperor thru many methods including terrorism, intelligence and other methods. If Sith Emperor is strong as he claims to be, Instead of facing down the Sith Emperor himself in a stupidly brazen manvuer, weaken his support. And It is very common to have Sith Lords to have dark side artifacts and other things to draw power on. There is nothing wrong with having a Powerful Sith Lord but he needs a weakness to prevent him to becoming a Boring Invicible Villain Or God Moding.

 

 

 

I can easily do a what if Post if Revan was a Mary Sue in many forms.