KOTOR 2 Storyline questions [SPOILERS]

[arsenalforever]

Vrook to Exile on Dantooine:

 

"Somehow they [the Sith] have learned their hunger from you"

 

But I thought that they had learned all this from the Sith teachings in the Trayus Academy? Why does Vrook think that the Exile educated the Sith in feeding on the Force from others?

 

And I think the Masters tried to cut the Exile from the Force on Dantooine because they feared that if he fell to the Dark side, he too will become like Nihilius in order to satisfy his hunger. Am I right?

 

Another thing I want to understand is, Nihilius learned to feed on other Force sensitives from the Sith teachings, but where did the Exile learn to do this? The Masters call him the "Death of the Force" even though he has not caused any harm. The Exile simply motivates others to stand with him and fight alongside him. He influences their decisions but where does he *FEED* on others?

 

Another thing, why doesn't the Exile die when he kills Kreia at the Trayus Core? They have a strong force bond between them, don't they?

[TKA-001]

"Somehow they [the Sith] have learned their hunger from you"

 

But I thought that they had learned all this from the Sith teachings in the Trayus Academy? Why does Vrook think that the Exile educated the Sith in feeding on the Force from others?

I'm unsure of his exact meaning. Perhaps he think that the Sith learned this power by observing the Exile?

 

And I think the Masters tried to cut the Exile from the Force on Dantooine because they feared that if he fell to the Dark side, he too will become like Nihilius in order to satisfy his hunger. Am I right?

Yes. The problem, however, is that the Jedi don't know that because the Exile is of the same condition as Nihilus, she is the only one who could confront and have any chance of killing him in a straight-up fight.

 

Another thing I want to understand is, Nihilius learned to feed on other Force sensitives from the Sith teachings, but where did the Exile learn to do this? The Masters call him the "Death of the Force" even though he has not caused any harm. The Exile simply motivates others to stand with him and fight alongside him. He influences their decisions but where does he *FEED* on others?

The Jedi explain this elsewhere in this conversation. And Nihilus himself did not learn his draining power from the Sith, it is a consequence of his status as a wound in the Force and attunement to the dark side (the other Sith learned that from Trayus or wherever). Regarding the Exile herself, as the Jedi explain, she feeds off of the energy of her companions via their bonds (though evidently as a consequence of her light-side alignment, the only potentially negative side-effect is her unconscious affecting of their minds), and Zez-Kai Ell says that the Exile actually feeds off of everyone she kills (hence why she becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on; this is a clever way of explaining the level-up gameplay feature within the context of the story).

[arsenalforever]

The problem, however, is that the Jedi don't know that because the Exile is of the same condition as Nihilus, she is the only one who could confront and have any chance of killing him in a straight-up fight.

 

Why is the Exile the only one who can kill Nihilius in a straight up fight?

 

The Jedi Masters cut the Exile off from the force because they fear that she might fall to the Dark side and become like Nihilius. But why would the Exile fall to the Dark side? She worked tirelessly and moved from planet to planet to save the Jedi Masters. If she would have been Dark sided, wouldn't she have killed the Jedi Masters?

[Rtas Vadum]

Vrook to Exile on Dantooine:

 

"Somehow they [the Sith] have learned their hunger from you"

 

But I thought that they had learned all this from the Sith teachings in the Trayus Academy? Why does Vrook think that the Exile educated the Sith in feeding on the Force from others?

 

Because that is the simple answer. They don't know about Nihlius, only about the general Sith threat, and so they blame the one person who can do what they think is causing the problem.

 

Another thing, why doesn't the Exile die when he kills Kreia at the Trayus Core? They have a strong force bond between them, don't they?

 

At that point, it is more like they did. Though the game does make mention of the idea that, if severed, it would kill them both. But when it is, it is either that it was severed because it was no longer between the same people(i.e between Kreia and the Exile), or because it was a bond, inevitably, between teacher and student, so when she says "I will teach you no longer. Our bond remains, but that is all." The bond likely breaks with the utterance of that first part, and the second is a lie(as Kreia is known to do), though it is possible she would not have known about it.

 

Why is the Exile the only one who can kill Nihilius in a straight up fight?

 

The Jedi Masters cut the Exile off from the force because they fear that she might fall to the Dark side and become like Nihilius. But why would the Exile fall to the Dark side? She worked tirelessly and moved from planet to planet to save the Jedi Masters. If she would have been Dark sided, wouldn't she have killed the Jedi Masters?

 

They view the Exile's and Nihilus's power in a simplistic manner, and so they believed them the same. But there is a big difference between the two, the most obvious being that Nihilus knows full well that he is doing this, and that he needs to, while the Exile might have some idea, at no point in the game does he/she ever mention needing to feed of someone else. Beyond the Jedi masters in a DS play-through, anyone you do feed off of, you aren't taking enough to drain them completely.

 

Though as to why it is only the Exile that can deal with Nihilus? Any other Jedi, he would have drained and it would be done. But with the Exile, having so similar a power, trying to drain the Exile is like trying to drink water from a bowl that is full of holes - it isn't going to work. And since he came to Telos to feed, he is already weak. Then he tries to feed on the exile, which doesn't work, which might be why that fight is so easy.

 

But in truth, the whole idea of killing to increase strength? A bit of satire on how the game engine itself works. The main source of experience obviously comes from killing enemies, the same way the exile apparently gains experience.

[JCarter426]

Vrook to Exile on Dantooine:

 

"Somehow they [the Sith] have learned their hunger from you"

 

But I thought that they had learned all this from the Sith teachings in the Trayus Academy? Why does Vrook think that the Exile educated the Sith in feeding on the Force from others?

They learned it from Malachor, ultimately - from the wound that the Exile created there. The masters are kind of right, even if you don't agree with their interpretation of events. Same with Kreia.

And I think the Masters tried to cut the Exile from the Force on Dantooine because they feared that if he fell to the Dark side, he too will become like Nihilius in order to satisfy his hunger. Am I right?

That's only part of it. They were afraid of the Exile for other reasons, too - and I don't think they all shared the same reasons for what they did. But generally, I think they saw the Exile as a wound in the Force, not a person - and Jedi teachings dictate that wounds in the Force are bad things that should be destroyed or avoided.

Another thing I want to understand is, Nihilius learned to feed on other Force sensitives from the Sith teachings, but where did the Exile learn to do this? The Masters call him the "Death of the Force" even though he has not caused any harm. The Exile simply motivates others to stand with him and fight alongside him. He influences their decisions but where does he *FEED* on others?

The Exile is the "Death of the Force" for a few reasons. First, the Exile is proof that life can exist without the Force, something that goes against the teachings of the Jedi. Second, the Exile draws power from something other than the Force - basically, the Exile is a threat to the establishment. But more than that, the Exile has the power to make people question their believes and influence their choices, and could force people to make one critical choice - to turn away from the Force.

 

As for the feeding thing, that's how the Exile is able to use the Force, with the bonding ability. This seems mostly harmless on its own, but when taken to extremes it can be used to drain the life from other people. This is what Nihilus does, this is what a dark sided Exile does to the masters after killing them, and it's possible even a light-sided Exile does this subconsciously, gaining strength from fallen enemies. Or as we call it, XP.

Another thing, why doesn't the Exile die when he kills Kreia at the Trayus Core? They have a strong force bond between them, don't they?

This is probably more complicated than all the previous questions combined. It's open to interpretation, but there are two main points I can see:

 

1. Bonds are between people, and people's relationships can change. When Kreia betrays the Exile, the Exile's feelings for her change, which could result in the dissolution of the bond.

 

2. What complicates the matter is that even if a normal bond would fade via #1, the Exile's bonds aren't normal. The Exile needs these bonds to feel the Force, through other people. Now, Kreia hates the Force. She criticizes the Jedi and Sith for using the Force as a crutch. Nihilus has the same power as the Exile, but let the hunger consume him. She doesn't want that to happen to the Exile; she wants the Exile to be able to use these bonds without relying on them for survival. So in forcing the Exile to kill her, she achieves this.

 

But as I said, it's pretty open, like most things in the game. We don't actually know that the Exile could die from one of these bonds, because this never happens. It very well could be a lie told by Kreia to further her schemes, but all her lies tend to have a bit of truth.

[arsenalforever]

If any of you have played the M4-78 droid planet via a mod or something, Master Lonna Vash says that the bond between herself and her student broke when the student fell to the dark side. Is that what happened between the Exile and Kreia? The bond was between the Exile and *KRIEA*, not between the Exile and *DARTH TRAYA*, if you know what I mean?

 

Another thing, wasn't the Levelling up and XP thing there in KOTOR as well? Does that mean that even Revan fed on other force sensitives?

[Blix]

^

Revan was polar opposite to Exile; he was revered as the life of the force, Exile was feared as the death of the force [i don't remember the EXACT quote but it's from dialogue between the Exile and Kreia (aboard the Ebon Hawk)].

[TKA-001]

Why is the Exile the only one who can kill Nihilius in a straight up fight?

Because, as a wound in the Force, she is immune to his drainage power. When she confronts him on the Ravager he tries to use it on her, but only exhausts himself in the process.

 

The Jedi Masters cut the Exile off from the force because they fear that she might fall to the Dark side and become like Nihilius. But why would the Exile fall to the Dark side? She worked tirelessly and moved from planet to planet to save the Jedi Masters. If she would have been Dark sided, wouldn't she have killed the Jedi Masters?

Keep in mind that they haven't seen all of her good deeds; and since we know from both the movies and other parts of the EU that dark-siders can mask their alignment, they can't be sure whether she's deceiving them or not. And as others have noted, her status as a wound is bound to affect their judgement of her character a great deal.

 

Though the game does make mention of the idea that, if severed, it would kill them both. But when it is, it is either that it was severed because it was no longer between the same people(i.e between Kreia and the Exile), or because it was a bond, inevitably, between teacher and student, so when she says "I will teach you no longer. Our bond remains, but that is all." The bond likely breaks with the utterance of that first part, and the second is a lie(as Kreia is known to do), though it is possible she would not have known about it.

I call it a plot hole.

[JCarter426]

Another thing, wasn't the Levelling up and XP thing there in KOTOR as well? Does that mean that even Revan fed on other force sensitives?

Nah, the game mechanics shouldn't be taken too seriously, down that path lies madness. This is just a bit of metafiction to make you think... just don't think about it too much.

I call it a plot hole.

It's not really a plot hole... there are valid explanations present in the story, it's just not stated clearly and unilaterally.

[TKA-001]

It is a plot hole. What Rtas says, which I quoted, is baseless, for he implies (and you outright state above) that the bond can be broken just because Kreia wants it to be broken - this allegation is contrary to what we learn about it from the first time it's spoken (that it was formed by accident, that it's dangerous, and that they can't get rid of it as far as they know).

 

To say that the game does not explain it clearly is putting it mildly. The bond is never even mentioned in the game past Telos (that is, Telos after the Jedi are killed on Dantooine), and even then only if the Exile kills Atris, prompting Kreia to contact her and tell her that she has to go to Malachor (since Atris, being dead, can't tell her). What everything about the Force bond that we are told in the actual game adds up to is "If one dies, so does the other." The only part of the game which even suggested that there is a way to get rid of it is the conversation with Vash on M4-78 (or wherever the hell you were supposed to encounter her), and even then, it's hardly comprehensive and leads to plenty of other unanswered questions (IIRC she says that if one turns to the dark side, a bond gets weakened/broken/whatever. But if that's the case, what happens if both members of a bond turn to the dark side at the same time, or if both are dark-sided at the beginning and one starts to drift to the light? And how does this make sense if we consider the fact that Kreia was attuned to the dark side from the beginning?). And, of course, the whole thing got cut from the game anyway.

 

Thus, during the final conversation at Malachor, neither the Exile nor Kreia even mention the bond (not even in cut dialogue, as far as I've heard, which makes me wonder whether the writers ever even thought of what would actually happen in the ending). The Exile's survival (which technically we don't even see if we go by the light-sided version, only the Ebon Hawk appearing nearby and then flying off) goes without explanation in relation to the Force bond, which is a major aspect of the plot from the beginning of the game. Plot hole.

[JCarter426]

First, just because it isn't explained doesn't make it a plot hole; obviously Avellone and the other writers did consider this matter, since they wrote material hinting at an explanation but unfortunately got cut from the final game. So at the very least there is an explanation, it just didn't make it in. That's not a plot hole, that's just unfortunate.

 

Second, you seem to be ignoring or forgetting certain bits of dialogue that are still in the game that still hints at possible explanations - and indeed, there's always "Kreia was lying", but I'll admit that's not much better than "a wizard did it". But anyway, here's a bit of dialogue:

A bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It is not a choice... it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force. To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die - but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound.

Now consider:

 

1. He says breaking a bond is not a choice, like turning away from the Force, and yet the Exile did this already.

 

2. It's not the act of falling to the dark side that would break the bond, it's the feelings that form the bond changing, causing it to break; Kreia betrays the Exile, the Exile's feelings about her change, simple. What complicates it, as I mentioned earlier, is that the Exile needs these bonds to survive. Kreia talks a lot about how she wants to make the Exile overcome Malachor, become stronger than her, and so on - and killing her is the final test.

[Obi-Wan Bologna]

Yeah, except Zez Kai Ell always says that last part twice haha

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah, except Zez Kai Ell always says that last part twice haha

*cough* TSLRCM *cough*

[arsenalforever]

Also if the Exile chooses the dark sided path in the game, isn't it possible to ally with the Sith?

 

Don't dark sided masters and padawans share force bonds? JCarter makes sense.

[TKA-001]

First, just because it isn't explained doesn't make it a plot hole; obviously Avellone and the other writers did consider this matter, since they wrote material hinting at an explanation but unfortunately got cut from the final game. So at the very least there is an explanation, it just didn't make it in. That's not a plot hole, that's just unfortunate.

Firstly, yes, lack of explanation in the game does make it a plot hole (regardless what amounts of careless design and unfortunate happenstance may or may not be responsible). Take AotC as an example: if the two scenes where Obi-Wan takes the poison dart used by Jango and where he shows it to Dexter - thus establishing Kamino's connection to the assassination plot - were inexplicably not in the film, yet he just showed up at Kamino anyway later on, we would call that a plot hole, wouldn't we?

 

Better yet, if in KotOR I the player-character's true identity as Revan was to go completely unmentioned after the player leaves the Leviathan, even unto the end of the game - or if Carth's personal connection to Saul Karath was present in your conversations with him but went completely unmentioned on the Leviathan itself - would we not call that a plot hole?

 

The exact same thing is done with the Exile and Kreia's Force bond here. Past a certain point it is neither mentioned nor seen again.

 

dialogue that are still in the game that still hints at possible explanations - and indeed, there's always "Kreia was lying", but I'll admit that's not much better than "a wizard did it".

I'm glad that you're willing to admit that, but please in any future debates be courteous enough to not even mention the "Kreia = Liar" card, even conjecturally, unless you're willing to bring up a potential motive for her lying in the case of whatever we're talking about.

 

1. He says breaking a bond is not a choice, like turning away from the Force, and yet the Exile did this already.

What is this supposed to prove? So because the Exile from a certain point of view did one thing that was said to be sort of impossible, she can do another? Furthermore, the Exile did not choose to turn from the Force. The Jedi explain that she involuntarily deafened herself to it to defend herself from what happened at Malachor; and Kreia sums it up (depending on your alignment, I think) as either "you were afraid" or "you had no choice".

 

"A bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It is not a choice... it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force. To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die - but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound."

2. It's not the act of falling to the dark side that would break the bond, it's the feelings that form the bond changing, causing it to break; Kreia betrays the Exile, the Exile's feelings about her change, simple.

But everyone in the game after Kreia's betrayal still acts as though the bond is there and completely intact. The Exile's still like "****, if I don't go after her Atris'll kill her and I'll die"; and if she kills Atris, Kreia still contacts her as strongly through their bond as ever, and tells her that she'll kill herself if the Exile doesn't follow her to Malachor.

 

Further, this entire viewpoint of yours hinges on the assumption that an actual trusting relationship with emotional, that is, feeling-based connections (hence the emphasis above) developed between the Exile and Kreia; but nowhere in the game is this actually a guarantee (not even in the canon timeline, as influence with Kreia is independent of alignment and I don't recall the Revan novel ever weighing in on the matter). It's just as easy for the Exile, from the beginning to the end, to stay away from her as much as possible during the journey, or to never do anything that raises influence with her, or to do all the things that piss her off (which, incidentally, include the majority of the game's light-sided choices) because they don't conform to her teachings - and the bond is still as there as ever, regardless of which path is taken; the same whether Kreia approves or disapproves of you. Isn't that the entire narrative point of the bond - that you, the Exile, are stuck with Kreia no matter how much you hate her or don't trust her? That you can't kill her or get rid of her, and that you have to find a way to get rid of the bond first?

 

You say that the bond is weakened/broken by the changing of the feelings that formed the bond - but this bond was never formed by feelings in the first place. It was formed unconsciously, unnaturally quickly, and in a completely non-standard manner while both of them were lying comatose in the Peragus Facility's sickbay.

[JCarter426]

Firstly, yes, lack of explanation in the game does make it a plot hole (regardless what amounts of careless design and unfortunate happenstance may or may not be responsible). Take AotC as an example: if the two scenes where Obi-Wan takes the poison dart used by Jango and where he shows it to Dexter - thus establishing Kamino's connection to the assassination plot - were inexplicably not in the film, yet he just showed up at Kamino anyway later on, we would call that a plot hole, wouldn't we?

 

Better yet, if in KotOR I the player-character's true identity as Revan was to go completely unmentioned after the player leaves the Leviathan, even unto the end of the game - or if Carth's personal connection to Saul Karath was present in your conversations with him but went completely unmentioned on the Leviathan itself - would we not call that a plot hole?

 

The exact same thing is done with the Exile and Kreia's Force bond here. Past a certain point it is neither mentioned nor seen again.

It's not the same scenario at all because the explanation is already there. It's just not stated in as clear terms at the end of the game. Like a lot of things, it's left open to your interpretation. Your interpretation seems to be "there is no possible interpretation", but I don't agree with that. There are clues throughout the game.

I'm glad that you're willing to admit that, but please in any future debates be courteous enough to not even mention the "Kreia = Liar" card, even conjecturally, unless you're willing to bring up a potential motive for her lying in the case of whatever we're talking about.

She has plenty of motive, but that's beside the point since this is simply one possible explanation, and I don't think it explains everything myself.

 

What is this supposed to prove? So because the Exile from a certain point of view did one thing that was said to be sort of impossible, she can do another?

I'm just pointing out that no one in the game really seems to know how the Force works, and you're basing your argument on the fact that because the certain characters can't explain certain events means there is no possible explanation, when that's clearly not true.

Furthermore, the Exile did not choose to turn from the Force. The Jedi explain that she involuntarily deafened herself to it to defend herself from what happened at Malachor; and Kreia sums it up (depending on your alignment, I think) as either "you were afraid" or "you had no choice".

Wait, wait, wait. The only line that suggests it was not a choice is the one you mentioned, which is only for the dark sided Exile anyway - and that version if the story is filled with so many plot holes that there's no point in arguing about it. In any case, it is repeatedly referred to as the Exile's choice, by everyone in the game - Kreia, the masters, Atris, even Sion. It may have been an unconscious choice, but it was still a choice.

But everyone in the game after Kreia's betrayal still acts as though the bond is there and completely intact. The Exile's still like "****, if I don't go after her Atris'll kill her and I'll die"

Yes, but... well, Kreia lies. And yes, there is a motivation for it - as you said, she manipulates the Exile with this information.

and if she kills Atris, Kreia still contacts her as strongly through their bond as ever, and tells her that she'll kill herself if the Exile doesn't follow her to Malachor.

No, this is incorrect. In the scene you are thinking of, this is just a projection of Kreia from Atris' Sith holocrons; Kreia specifically says she is not contacting the Exile through the bond. This might mean the bond is already weaker at this point.

 

But I don't see how this is relevant. The threat is only meant to get you to Malachor; by then, Kreia has you where she wants you. So even if killing Kreia will kill you, you don't really have a choice because she'll kill you if you don't anyway. So the Exile's survival is the only issue.

 

Second, at no point is it suggested that you'll die if you kill Kreia; the only concern is someone else killing Kreia and the Exile feeling Kreia's pain so strongly that it would be lethal. Note that it only happens once in the game (and once more in cut content) and it only happens when it does because the Exile is caught by surprise. Kreia explains that when they are in battle, their minds are more focused. So if they are battling each other, it shouldn't be any different. In short, Kreia threatens to kill herself if you won't come to Malachor to fight her; this very well might kill you. However, this doesn't prevent you from killing her yourself.

Further, this entire viewpoint of yours hinges on the assumption that an actual trusting relationship with emotional, that is, feeling-based connections (hence the emphasis above) developed between the Exile and Kreia; but nowhere in the game is this actually a guarantee (not even in the canon timeline, as influence with Kreia is independent of alignment and I don't recall the Revan novel ever weighing in on the matter). It's just as easy for the Exile, from the beginning to the end, to stay away from her as much as possible during the journey, or to never do anything that raises influence with her, or to do all the things that piss her off (which, incidentally, include the majority of the game's light-sided choices) because they don't conform to her teachings - and the bond is still as there as ever, regardless of which path is taken; the same whether Kreia approves or disapproves of you. Isn't that the entire narrative point of the bond - that you, the Exile, are stuck with Kreia no matter how much you hate her or don't trust her? That you can't kill her or get rid of her, and that you have to find a way to get rid of the bond first?

 

You say that the bond is weakened/broken by the changing of the feelings that formed the bond - but this bond was never formed by feelings in the first place. It was formed unconsciously, unnaturally quickly, and in a completely non-standard manner while both of them were lying comatose in the Peragus Facility's sickbay.

First, that's not the entire basis of my viewpoint. The entire basis of my viewpoint is that there are several explanations for how the bond could have broken, based on hints that are present in the game. Just because it isn't clearly stated doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

Second, while that's an interesting point, this isn't something that's established in the game. We don't know that the bond doesn't act any differently from a normal bond - at least, what little we are told about how normal bonds work to begin with - apart from the fact that it was formed more quickly and appears stronger than normal bonds. Neither of these facts precludes it from behaving like a normal bond in any other respect - i.e. based on the feelings between the bonded individuals. The Exile's ability is unusual, not necessarily unnatural.

 

In any case, there are a lot of possible explanations that are present in the game. If you want to ignore them, that's your business.

[arsenalforever]

Kreia wants to use the Exile to end the force and start echoes which never reach the end, and which keep echoing throughout the galaxy. But this doesn't make sense?

 

 

I understand that the Exile was a strong user of the Force and she DID cut herself off from the Force at Malachor because if she would not have done so, she would have died due to the number of bonds she had formed.

 

But what I don't understand is, how Kreia wants to use this trait of the Exile to end the Force? And if the bond never really existed between the Exile and Kreia, why did the Exile feel the pain when Sion cut Kreia's hand off? I really don't understand what Kreia achieved by doing what she did with the Exile

[Rtas Vadum]

But what I don't understand is, how Kreia wants to use this trait of the Exile to end the Force? And if the bond never really existed between the Exile and Kreia, why did the Exile feel the pain when Sion cut Kreia's hand off? I really don't understand what Kreia achieved by doing what she did with the Exile

 

In the instance that Sion cuts her hand off, the Exile couldn't possibly be prepared, nor could he/she have known it was going to happen. Where at any other point in the game that the Exile has Kreia in the party, it is obvious from the start that she might be injured, along with it being obvious to Kreia that the Exile might take a few hits(which, in most cases it isn't grievous wounds, but still...). Kreia explains this when you first talk to her aboard the Hawk.

 

The only instances which might not make sense with this logic, are the one(or two) times which the party is supposed to believe the Exile is dead. Either way, it is likely either Kreia would be able to prepare herself in some way, or in the instance within the Enclave(if that is one of the instances), then, in some way, Kreia was prepared for it to happen, even if the Exile wasn't.

 

As for her goal, if it can be achieved as such, who knows. For one, the very reason that she wanted to do something like that, is purely because she viewed it like a disease, something that might not kill her, but still something that is going to dictate her actions. Consider that she was a Sith Lord, and a Jedi Master, and that both sides exiled her at some point. Through this, she didn't look at the sides to hate, she looked at what stands at the core of both - the force itself. But that isn't it. Another goal she has, is to dispose of the current Jedi/Sith, so their ideals will fade, as new ones rise to replace them. The reason you have to kill her, even as a Jedi, is because her very nature has her do the things she hates, because she is still part of the Jedi/Sith that she wishes to eliminate.

[arsenalforever]

And how does she exactly plan to end the Force using the Exile?

[Obi-Wan Bologna]

*cough* TSLRCM *cough*

 

Sorry, I've only played the xbox version. lol

[Rtas Vadum]

And how does she exactly plan to end the Force using the Exile?

 

The same thing that happened to the Exile, but to force it on anyone who can feel/use the force. To create an echo so large, it is felt by all, forcing them to either sever their connection to the force, or die in the attempt.

 

As for what an echo is, it seems to be almost any event, but the sort wanted here is of the traumatic sort. Such as Malachor, when the Exile stood on the bridge of a ship, watching as those around Malachor where sucked into the planet's gravity well, destroying them and killing their occupants. Being so close, being able to hear it so loudly, the Exile needed to abandon the force, to survive, if nothing else.

[arsenalforever]

I understand that echoes and disturbances occur in the Force when many deaths take place at once or due to mass destruction. But these echoes could be created by Nihilius and the other Sith who were capable of mass destruction. What I don't understand is why Kreia couldn't achieve what she wanted WITHOUT the Exile?

 

Also I found this bit on Wookiepedia:

 

Traya then returned to Malachor V, where she intended to sacrifice herself to open up the larger wound in the Force in order to destroy it

 

What does the above line mean?

 

Also there is a cut scene in which Kreia expresses her disgust for machines and electrocutes T3-M4. What is the significance of this scene in the story

 

Another thing which comes in my mind is, how did Kreia and T3-M4 reunite and take possession of the Ebon Hawk in the first place?

[Rtas Vadum]

I understand that echoes and disturbances occur in the Force when many deaths take place at once or due to mass destruction. But these echoes could be created by Nihilius and the other Sith who were capable of mass destruction. What I don't understand is why Kreia couldn't achieve what she wanted WITHOUT the Exile?

 

The Exile is an open wound. Where Nihilus might be as well, the idea that she could approach him for such a task is unlikely. But since the Exile is obviously more open to influence, more susceptible to being pointed in the direction Kreia wanted, it makes it somewhat obvious who she would chose.

 

Also there is a cut scene in which Kreia expresses her disgust for machines and electrocutes T3-M4. What is the significance of this scene in the story

 

You can't influence a machine, like you can a man. Where it would be easy for her to direct a human or alien to do as she wished, with a machine, she could not. She lacks knowledge on the inner workings of droids and the like, though she might have some base knowledge of piloting, if nothing else. But as to why she would attack T3, is due to the fact that she hates that the Exile would rely on something she cannot completely understand and control. When you obtain her help in learning to read thoughts, she mentions that she cannot hear anything from the droids, where the exile could 'hear' a catch in the hyper-drive, due to he or she having some knowledge of machines.

 

Another thing which comes in my mind is, how did Kreia and T3-M4 reunite and take possession of the Ebon Hawk in the first place?

 

Kreia says that Revan left "the Hawk and it's machines" behind(presumably on Malachor, though where is anyone's guess). I'd guess that Kreia would've simply found the hawk after she was betrayed by the Sith, and left the planet on it.

[arsenalforever]

Okay so the Exile is an open wound in the Force but how does making the Exile kill her at Malachor help her achieve what she wanted? How does all this create echoes in the Force?

 

Another thing, was it the mass destruction and loss of countless lives at Malachor the reason for the echoes in the Force, or was it the the action of the Exile which cut her off from the Force responsible for the echoes?

 

What would have happened if the Exile had died at the Trayus Academy? Would Kreia's mission be accomplished?

 

The Force existed in all life, and when many lives were extinguished, especially in a short period of time, a wound was created.

 

But Kreia's plan did NOT involve the loss of many lives in a short period of time. It only involved battling the Exile at the Malachor. But how would such a battle create an echo?

[Rtas Vadum]

Okay so the Exile is an open wound in the Force but how does making the Exile kill her at Malachor help her achieve what she wanted? How does all this create echoes in the Force?

 

By that point, her goal had changed, though it was a simplified version of her previous one. Having the Exile kill her on Malachor is for one reason - she is the last remaining member of the Jedi Order, and of the Sith. With her death, the ideals that destroyed the Jedi, and tore apart the Sith(even though Sith rarely change) would die with her.

 

Another thing, was it the mass destruction and loss of countless lives at Malachor the reason for the echoes in the Force, or was it the the action of the Exile which cut her off from the Force responsible for the echoes?

 

It isn't just Malachor. Dantooine, Telos, and even Taris(even if this isn't a location in the game) are places in which an echo can be felt. However, the echo caused by Malachor is different, in it can be felt within the Exile.

 

What would have happened if the Exile had died at the Trayus Academy? Would Kreia's mission be accomplished?

 

No, since she would still be alive. Her wish to destroy the force does go along with the fact that she holds on to ideals of the Jedi and the Sith, and if she does not die, either by the Exile's hand, or with the death of the force, her entire plan fails. It might still be successful if no one could use the force, but I don't think it goes that far.

 

But Kreia's plan did NOT involve the loss of many lives in a short period of time. It only involved battling the Exile at the Malachor. But how would such a battle create an echo?

 

Beyond Jedi or Sith in hiding, or those who have given up the force, she and the Exile are similar. By that, I mean that Kreia has been a part of the Jedi and the Sith, while the Exile, is the last of the Jedi(even if it is just in name only). Either of their deaths is going to cause an echo, and one of them must die. With the Exile, the Jedi falls, and Kreia would see the end of the force, if such a thing is possible. And of course, with Kreia's death, again, the former order, and ideals of the Jedi and Sith die, while a new order is allowed to replace them, perhaps avoiding the failings which were so prevalent.