KOTOR 2 Storyline questions [SPOILERS]

[Rtas Vadum]

Perhaps because Atris is the only other Jedi, the Exile assumes they'll go after her. I don't know... the whole battle of Telos is really off.

 

I don't know if she will say it for sure every time(especially if you spare Atris), but Kreia(or at least, the impression of her in the holocrons), mentions...

 

"One of the Sith Lords has come to Telos. You know why he has come here. And if he is not stopped, here, now, then he shall lay waste to the planet."

 

That could mean Sion, but it's lilely Sion would only be after Jedi, and would not concern himself with the station. Which leaves only Nihilus, who is obviously more likely to lay waste to the planet, given what the Exile would know of Katar.

[arsenalforever]

The Exile tells Atton that they must go to Telos because the Sith are planning to attack it even before they leave Dantooine for the Academy. But I don't understand how they even come to know that Telos is going to be under attack?

 

And how did the Ebon Hawk even reach the Academy? I thought the codes were only with the Handmaiden?

 

If we side with the Queen on Onderon, there is a cut scene of Kreia telling Colonel Tobin to tell Nihilus to attack Telos and that there is a Jedi Academy there, but if we side with General Vaklu, who tells Nihilus to attack Telos? And why would Kreia want Nihilus to attack Telos?

 

Nihilus could not sense the Jedi Council meeting on Dantooine (when they tried to strip the Exile of the Force) because it was difficult to sense Force Sensitives on such worlds, then does that make Telos any different?

 

And when Atris asks Kreia who she is, Kreia says "I am the one who ordered him to be exiled". Is this true?

 

Atris also says: "These Sith are spawned of you, spawned of the Mandalorian Wars... all those deaths, all those Jedi"

 

So the Sith DID learn those techniques from the Exile?

 

Atris said that Kreia was waiting at Malachor for the Exile, where she intended to create another echo that would deafen and kill all Force Sensitives. I wanted to ask, that how she intended to trigger another echo? By making the Exile kill her at the heart of Malachor? Then she succeeded didn't she?

 

And Atris said that if the Exile did not follow her to Malachor, she will kill herself, resulting in the death of the Exile as well. Did she mean this or was it another one of her lies? I think she was speaking the truth, because if she killed herself on Malachor, the Exile would be caught unprepared and would die of the pain too (like on Dantooine (dark side version))

[Rtas Vadum]

The Exile tells Atton that they must go to Telos because the Sith are planning to attack it even before they leave Dantooine for the Academy. But I don't understand how they even come to know that Telos is going to be under attack?

 

Where else would it be? It might be suspect at that point, but in some ways, where else would Nihilus choose to attack? As far as the game itself goes, you only hear about Katar, and that's it. He hasn't went after anywhere else, to to anything similar. So he obviously had the need to quell his hunger, along with needing a place to do so. How exactly he would've heard about Telos(beyond Tobin specifically telling him), I can't say, but it's either that Kreia actually tells Tobin the information regardless of who the Exile sides with, or...well else I don't know.

 

And how did the Ebon Hawk even reach the Academy? I thought the codes were only with the Handmaiden?

 

"She said you would come here, to this place"

 

Atris was expecting you. Regardless of your alignment, she wants to be rid of you. You could say that it's like this - if you want to fix a problem, and it happens to be coming close enough to do so on it's own, why stop it?

 

If we side with the Queen on Onderon, there is a cut scene of Kreia telling Colonel Tobin to tell Nihilus to attack Telos and that there is a Jedi Academy there, but if we side with General Vaklu, who tells Nihilus to attack Telos? And why would Kreia want Nihilus to attack Telos?

 

I think Tobin(aboard the Ravager) mentions that she told him, no matter who the Exile sides with. As for the reason Kreia wanted that? Two reasons. The first is, that it brings him out into the open, allowing himself to be attacked. And the second is, that he is already lacking in places to sate his hunger. Trying to feed on Telos, is like trying to save oneself from death in a desert, with naught but a few drops of water.

 

Nihilus could not sense the Jedi Council meeting on Dantooine (when they tried to strip the Exile of the Force) because it was difficult to sense Force Sensitives on such worlds, then does that make Telos any different?

 

There is a difference in being able to sense where something is, and knowing that it's there. Why try scouring the galaxy for something, when you know exactly where it is?

 

And when Atris asks Kreia who she is, Kreia says "I am the one who ordered him to be exiled". Is this true?

 

It could be, but either way, it makes sense. If the Exile goes to the Council, and they listen, then there is ample reason for trust. If the Exile goes to them, and they not only don't listen, but they wish to Exile her, then there is reason for the Exile to doubt them, if she hadn't before.

 

Atris also says: "These Sith are spawned of you, spawned of the Mandalorian Wars... all those deaths, all those Jedi"

 

So the Sith DID learn those techniques from the Exile?

 

When exactly did the Exile give lessons on this? But then again, Atris is just like the rest of the Council. She does not know about Nihlius(never-mind the advertising), and if there are Sith that have a power similar to the Exile's, who do you think she is going to mention first?

 

Atris said that Kreia was waiting at Malachor for the Exile, where she intended to create another echo that would deafen and kill all Force Sensitives. I wanted to ask, that how she intended to trigger another echo? By making the Exile kill her at the heart of Malachor? Then she succeeded didn't she?

 

Yes, and no. Her, and obviously the Exile's action's changed things, but the force still exists.

 

And Atris said that if the Exile did not follow her to Malachor, she will kill herself, resulting in the death of the Exile as well. Did she mean this or was it another one of her lies? I think she was speaking the truth, because if she killed herself on Malachor, the Exile would be caught unprepared and would die of the pain too (like on Dantooine (dark side version))

 

For what reason, at that point, would the Exile have to not go to Malachor? Beyond the fact that the game forces you to, there isn't much to that thinking, since even if you could travel to Malachor just like the other planets, having a scene where Kreia actually does it(say if you take a certain amount of time finishing quests, etc), it would be interesting, but annoying.

 

Also, Kreia does specifically tell the Exile that she will kill herself if they don't come to Malachor. The possibility might not make one prepared for something, but if you know it might happen, you are better off than not knowing at all.

[arsenalforever]

I think Tobin(aboard the Ravager) mentions that she told him, no matter who the Exile sides with.

 

The cutscene plays only if we side with the Queen.

 

And from the video, can you please tell me what Kreia means between 4:32 to 4:39?

 

Yes, and no. Her, and obviously the Exile's action's changed things, but the force still exists.

 

Well Kreia said that if echoes like the one the Exile created were created in succession, it would lead to the death of all Force sensitives. But I think the magnitude of these echoes are not all the same.

 

Obviously, the magnitude of the echo created by the activation of the MSG is much larger than ones created by small acts of charity or cruelty.

 

In order to kill these Force sensitives, an echo of a magnitude similar to the one created by the Exile at Malachor must be triggered, and Kreia thought that the magnitude of the echoes created due to her death at the hands of the Exile at Malachor would be enough to kill the Force Sensitives? Surely not?

 

If she wants to kill Force Sensitives, she would have to come up with a better plan that would create echoes of a larger magnitude right? If she wanted echoes, she could've just let Nihilus consume Telos lol

 

And when asked why Kreia chose the Exile when there were many other Jedi, she says

 

"No Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force. It was mistake to make you try and feel it again, I see that now. There is no truth in the Force. But there is truth in you exile, and that is why I chose you"

 

1. It was the loss of lives that left a wound in the Force, not the severance of ties by the Exile.

 

2. Why was it a mistake to make the Exile try and feel the Force again? Didn't Kreia get what she wanted?

[Rtas Vadum]

The cutscene plays only if we side with the Queen.

 

Yes, but I didn't mean that scene. I mean when you speak with Tobin aboard the Ravager, he mentions that Kreia told him about Telos, regardless if you side with the Queen or Vaklu.

 

And from the video, can you please tell me what Kreia means between 4:32 to 4:39?

"The destruction of the Order, the Masters, was not an end in itself. I did not expect them to still live."

 

It simply means that she was unaware that they were still alive. It wasn't in her original goal to find them, but given that they were still alive, it would've been foolish for her to ignore them.

 

1. It was the loss of lives that left a wound in the Force, not the severance of ties by the Exile.

 

Yes, but it is because of those lost lives that she had to do it.

 

2. Why was it a mistake to make the Exile try and feel the Force again? Didn't Kreia get what she wanted?

 

Yes, but with her goal of getting rid of the force, she teaches her student to use it. Perhaps it does go along with her ideal of using the force like a poison, but given that the Exile would rely heavily on the force, it should be obvious to anyone that the Exile would fight against such a goal, dark or light.

[JCarter426]

I don't know if she will say it for sure every time(especially if you spare Atris), but Kreia(or at least, the impression of her in the holocrons), mentions...

 

"One of the Sith Lords has come to Telos. You know why he has come here. And if he is not stopped, here, now, then he shall lay waste to the planet."

 

That could mean Sion, but it's lilely Sion would only be after Jedi, and would not concern himself with the station. Which leaves only Nihilus, who is obviously more likely to lay waste to the planet, given what the Exile would know of Katar.

That happens after you've already gone to Telos in the first place.

Where else would it be? It might be suspect at that point, but in some ways, where else would Nihilus choose to attack? As far as the game itself goes, you only hear about Katar, and that's it. He hasn't went after anywhere else, to to anything similar. So he obviously had the need to quell his hunger, along with needing a place to do so. How exactly he would've heard about Telos(beyond Tobin specifically telling him), I can't say, but it's either that Kreia actually tells Tobin the information regardless of who the Exile sides with, or...well else I don't know.

Kreia only tells the Exile the Sith are even going to attack at all in the dark side version. Obviously the Sith have been destroying worlds and such, but the line suggests a certain, imminent attack, and there really isn't any evidence for it.

And how did the Ebon Hawk even reach the Academy? I thought the codes were only with the Handmaiden?

I think the codes are part of a cut subplot, like the HK factory; best ignore the whole thing. And I agree Atris probably wanted the Exile to come to her anyway.

If we side with the Queen on Onderon, there is a cut scene of Kreia telling Colonel Tobin to tell Nihilus to attack Telos and that there is a Jedi Academy there, but if we side with General Vaklu, who tells Nihilus to attack Telos? And why would Kreia want Nihilus to attack Telos?

The scene isn't in the game at all, it was cut. So I don't get your question.

Nihilus could not sense the Jedi Council meeting on Dantooine (when they tried to strip the Exile of the Force) because it was difficult to sense Force Sensitives on such worlds, then does that make Telos any different?

In all likeliness, yes. Kreia describes it as "a place hidden from the galaxy, like the academy on Dantooine" and calls Atris clever for choosing it.

And when Atris asks Kreia who she is, Kreia says "I am the one who ordered him to be exiled". Is this true?

That was also cut from the game. I believe it was cut for a reason, rather than due to time constraints like many of the other cuts; Avellone has admitted they went through several different drafts of the story and removed things they didn't feel were working. Kreia and Atris were completely different characters, originally.

It was the loss of lives that left a wound in the Force, not the severance of ties by the Exile.

Wounds happen all the time, it's how you react to them that matters. The Exile chose to sever their connection to the Force, rather than succumb to the wound's corrupting power. It may have been a subconscious choice, but it was still a choice. Kreia sees it as the Exile choosing to retain his/her identity rather than become a pawn of the dark side. A light sided Exile chose to turn away from the force out of fear of what the dark side would do to him/her, and a dark sided Exile had no choice but to give up his/her power in the same way the ancient Sith Lords chose not to develop Nihilus' hunger.

Atris also says: "These Sith are spawned of you, spawned of the Mandalorian Wars... all those deaths, all those Jedi"

 

So the Sith DID learn those techniques from the Exile?

Atris blames the Exile for everything that happened in the Mandalorian Wars. And she's right to some extent; had the Exile not entered the war, the course of events would have turned in a different direction. That doesn't mean the Exile is personally responsible for everything that happened, though. Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.

Atris said that Kreia was waiting at Malachor for the Exile, where she intended to create another echo that would deafen and kill all Force Sensitives. I wanted to ask, that how she intended to trigger another echo? By making the Exile kill her at the heart of Malachor? Then she succeeded didn't she?

No, by then she just wanted the Exile to kill her to succeed her; the master must kill the apprentice.

In order to kill these Force sensitives, an echo of a magnitude similar to the one created by the Exile at Malachor must be triggered, and Kreia thought that the magnitude of the echoes created due to her death at the hands of the Exile at Malachor would be enough to kill the Force Sensitives? Surely not?

No, I don't believe so. Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.

And Atris said that if the Exile did not follow her to Malachor, she will kill herself, resulting in the death of the Exile as well. Did she mean this or was it another one of her lies? I think she was speaking the truth, because if she killed herself on Malachor, the Exile would be caught unprepared and would die of the pain too (like on Dantooine (dark side version))

Who knows? Kreia's obviously a hypocrite and a liar, but what she does takes some serious guts. Would she kill herself just to prove a point? Wouldn't surprise me.

Well Kreia said that if echoes like the one the Exile created were created in succession, it would lead to the death of all Force sensitives. But I think the magnitude of these echoes are not all the same.

 

Obviously, the magnitude of the echo created by the activation of the MSG is much larger than ones created by small acts of charity or cruelty.

"From the smallest of actions, the smallest of cruelties and kindnesses, great tragedies are made."

If she wants to kill Force Sensitives, she would have to come up with a better plan that would create echoes of a larger magnitude right? If she wanted echoes, she could've just let Nihilus consume Telos lol

That uh... that was the plan. The fate of the Republic depends on Telos. The fate of the galaxy depends on the Republic.

 

But I don't think she really had a plan to destroy the Force. The galaxy isn't ready to give up the Force, and there's nothing she can do about it. Hell, even Kreia couldn't give up the Force. But she can help the only person who has made the choice to do so. Perhaps it's just that - a choice. You can't force it upon anyone, let alone the whole galaxy. And perhaps the galaxy will choose to give up the Force due to the Exile's influence. Someday.

[arsenalforever]

Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.

 

Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.

 

 

Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).

 

Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.

 

Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor. And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?

[JCarter426]

Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.

I only meant it in the metaphorical sense. They learned their power to feed on Jedi from the wound.

Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).

No, I don't believe so. I believe she wanted the Exile to kill her because she views that as an apprentice's final test. Even if she wants to kill the Force, Kreia believes in the Sith teachings to some extent. It's also a bit of an ego trip, as it's the goal of any teacher for their student to surpass them; when you're someone who can kill people with your brain, killing you is the only possible proof. Twisted, I know.

Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor.

She was Darth Traya once. She was the headmistress of the Trayus Academy. She taught Sion and Nihlius there. She taught Revan, who designed the wound there, the wound that corrupted all his followers. She's very much connected to Malachor.

And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?

Well no... mainly it's the Exile facing Malachor. The destruction might be a part of it as a final act to completely wipe out the memory of what happened there, to forget the past and look to the future. But Kreia's death serves the same purpose, on a more personal level.

[arsenalforever]

Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

 

What does this mean?

 

Yes, but with her goal of getting rid of the force, she teaches her student to use it. Perhaps it does go along with her ideal of using the force like a poison, but given that the Exile would rely heavily on the force, it should be obvious to anyone that the Exile would fight against such a goal, dark or light.

 

But the Exile does not rely heavily on the Force? If he did, he wouldn't have been able to sever his connection?

[JCarter426]

Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

 

What does this mean?

Well, what is Star Wars about? Wars. IN SPACE. With Jedi. For thousands of years, powerful Force users have fought each other in horrible wars on a galactic scale. The Jedi claim the Force controls everything, that it's trying to reach a balance.

 

The Force must be a real ****, surely.

 

I also think that Kreia doesn't like the idea of being manipulated in any way, since she takes pride in her ability to manipulate others. But the Force uses everyone. If you believe in an energy field that connects everyone, and controls their destinies, it can seem like the universe is conspiring against you. In a sense, everyone in the galaxy is manipulating Kreia! Must drive her wacko.

[Tharr]

Hello

I have a question ... I read somewhere that when you return to meet with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine , if you killed 2 of them and remain only one there is another plot then if you killed all ore none , it is true?

 

What happen if there are 2 of them, same like 3 I suspect.

 

I played TSL many times but this option(remain only 1 jedi master) did not crossed my mind ...

[Codeluke]

The storyline of TSL never fails to disappoint me. Just finished another DS playthrough and it's such an incredible journey. The Death of the Force; mind=blown. Just the sheer depth of Kreia's lectures and endless possibilities have me coming back for more. Man KotOR III would have been so flippin good.

[MsFicwriter]

Somewhere I read that Kreia was Chris Avellone's attempt to flesh out his "beefs" with the Star Wars universe. Am I insane? Was this only a figment of my imagination? If not, where can I read this [article] again?

 

Also, if you're a Dark Side Exile and you choose to remain on Malachor V, letting the planet remain intact, then what? Do you keep on trying to feed off of Force Sensitives and the galaxy? Do you continue your attempts to wound the Force and make more echoes? With the Sith Triumvirate dead, who can possibly defeat you in these goals?

 

You're shown hurling Kreia's dead body into the Trayus Core in the Dark Side ending, but what happens to her corpse if you're Light Side? Do you carry it with you on the Ebon Hawk so you can give her a proper burial on some other planet, or cremate her instead?

 

One more question: What happens to Kreia's soul after she dies? Jedi become one with the Force, as Vader did at the end of "Return of the Jedi", but what of her? Is she simply extinguished, so that she can't ever come back as a Force ghost?

[Bob Saget]

Somewhere I read that Kreia was Chris Avellone's attempt to flesh out his "beefs" with the Star Wars universe. Am I insane? Was this only a figment of my imagination? If not, where can I read this [article] again?

 

No, she represented the Anti-Jedi. Basically, she showed how the world in star wars shouldn't/isn't as black and white as the sith and jedi make it to look. Avellone used her to create a more dynamic Dark Side/Light side dichotomy.

 

Also, if you're a Dark Side Exile and you choose to remain on Malachor V, letting the planet remain intact, then what? Do you keep on trying to feed off of Force Sensitives and the galaxy? Do you continue your attempts to wound the Force and make more echoes? With the Sith Triumvirate dead, who can possibly defeat you in these goals?

 

Presumably you're awaiting the arrival of the true sith. That ending wasn't exactly well thought out and we just assume it's out to our imaginations

 

You're shown hurling Kreia's dead body into the Trayus Core in the Dark Side ending, but what happens to her corpse if you're Light Side? Do you carry it with you on the Ebon Hawk so you can give her a proper burial on some other planet, or cremate her instead?

 

No, her death was cut due to time constraints. In both endings she died by falling into the core

[MsFicwriter]

I have a few questions about Visas Marr:

 

1. Out of all the Miraluka on Katarr that Darth Nihilus slaughtered, why did he choose Visas as his apprentice? Was her ability to "see" through the Force more keen than those of her people?

 

2. If Visas remains on the Dark Side of the Force, Kreia says after her defeat: "The blind one shall return to her home planet, and see what she was meant to see." What does this mean? What was Visas meant to see if she stayed on the path of revenge and hatred?

 

3. I know that Kreia is definitely not a fan of any of the Exile's companions, but as for Visas, I don't quite understand why our favorite "teacher" dislikes her. Sure, she has ties to Nihilus, but is that the only reason Kreia's wary of her?

[Nick Vader]

Hello

I have a question ... I read somewhere that when you return to meet with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine , if you killed 2 of them and remain only one there is another plot then if you killed all ore none , it is true?

 

What happen if there are 2 of them, same like 3 I suspect.

 

I played TSL many times but this option(remain only 1 jedi master) did not crossed my mind ...

 

During one of my playthroughs of this game, I killed Zez and Vrook, but let Kavar live.

 

Intrestingly enough, when I arrived at Dantooine Kavar immediately spoke of my betrial to the Jedi and attacked me. No conversation was available.

 

Hope I helped.

[Rtas Vadum]

I have a few questions about Visas Marr:

 

1. Out of all the Miraluka on Katarr that Darth Nihilus slaughtered, why did he choose Visas as his apprentice? Was her ability to "see" through the Force more keen than those of her people?

 

I'd imagine that it's a similar situation to the Exile and Kreia, in that a bond was forged between the two, likely when he walked on the planet's surface(if that image on her wiki page is true). Although the reason he would've done so, is because he likely saw a flicker of life on a dead world, and was curious.

 

2. If Visas remains on the Dark Side of the Force, Kreia says after her defeat: "The blind one shall return to her home planet, and see what she was meant to see." What does this mean? What was Visas meant to see if she stayed on the path of revenge and hatred?

 

Depends on if you mean in Nihilus' view, or her view after she travels with a DS Exile. Considering Nihilus, it would've been her simply believing to the end, as he did. Perhaps in some respects she already did(and in a way still does just after she joins the party), but to the point were she would see no more than a dead world, and believe things are as they should be. As for her views after traveling with a DS exile, she might not see things that differently, save for the fact that she would stand on the sight of tragedy, knowing that, at least as much as could be done, she has taken revenge on the one responsible - even if she didn't land the killing blow herself.

 

3. I know that Kreia is definitely not a fan of any of the Exile's companions, but as for Visas, I don't quite understand why our favorite "teacher" dislikes her. Sure, she has ties to Nihilus, but is that the only reason Kreia's wary of her?

 

Presumably because she is the only other that has come close to "seeing" in the same manner as Kreia and the Exile. But where the exile can be manipulated, as can some of the other party members, Visas, as it seems, might understand how to resist it. And thus, it comes down to her not liking the fact that it is someone that she cannot manipulate. Plus, unlike the Exile, who doesn't see the truth about Kreia until late in the game, Visas is likely aware on some level. After all, she is the one who confronts Kreia after the Enclave scene.

 

Here is an interesting thought - the Character menu is how the Exile sees the party. For most, it likely provides the truth. But for Kreia? It lies. Or that is how the Exile is forced to see her.

[CM Punk]

Regarding the Exile, as the Jedi explain, she feeds off of the energy of her companions via their bonds (though evidently as a consequence of her light-side alignment, the only potentially negative side-effect is her unconscious affecting of their minds), and Zez-Kai Ell says that the Exile actually feeds off of everyone she kills (hence why she becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on; this is a clever way of explaining the level-up gameplay feature within the context of the story).

 

This.