BioWare ignored TSL...

[Fallen Guardian]

Their character arcs ended at the closing credits of KotOR and TSL respectively.

 

While I'll admit Revan's was pretty much closed at the end of KotOR I, the Exile's character arc didn't end with KotOR II. We were left with the Ebon Hawk flying off to find Revan, which meant that the Exile still had some story to go. And, the-off-to-find-Revan ending of KotOR II reopened Revan's story, adding the mystery of what happened to him/her and why he/she left everyone behind and went to the Unknown Regions.

 

I loved TSL and KotOR was about the best video game ever its first playthrough, but neither is 1/1000 the video game TOR is. Jedi Knight story is as close to the KotOR feeling that you can get, but it is so much more. As much as I love TSL, the game has a major flaw in making Revan way more important than he/she should have ever been made. Not crazy about the way Revan was portrayed in TOR, but it is widely better than his/her portrayal in TSL.

 

I disagree with this as well. Just because TOR has more storylines, more quests and a longer total gameplay time doesn't mean it's a better game than KotOR I or II. Also, Revan's handling in TOR sucked. All the player's actions were ignored and Revan essentially just fell to the dark side. I don't see how Revan getting a purpose in KotOR II that was beyond the general "I'm a bad guy and want to destroy the Republic and conquer the galaxy" that he/she originally had is a poor handling of him/her. It's not like they said Revan was the best Jedi ever. In fact, if Revan and Darth Nihlius were to fight Revan would probably lose, seeing as Nihlius feeds on the Force.

 

As to the Exile, yes she is largely ignored, but I like it that way. That was my character and I hate when others try to go back and tell her motivations. I really wished they would have handle Revan in more of the same way. That said, the Exile is not completely ignored in the game. I thought what was in the Jedi Knight's companion story was very well done and the same can be said about a codex.

 

I would much rather have had Revan ignored, similar to the Exile. However, neither of them were completely ignored. They were thrown in there as pawns to reinforce what happened in the Revan novel. The thing that was ignored was their true base characters (that is to say, the player's choices as those characters) and the overarching plot of KotOR II.

 

Kreia's character and much of what she said sucked and undermined the original game and much of what is great about the SW universe.

 

How did it undermine what is great about KotOR 1 and the Star Wars universe?

 

The stupid idea that Revan never "truly" fell to the dark side cheapens the original game and its important moment of revelation.

 

How so? The importance of the revelation was that the Jedi council had lied to you, and you were really a former Dark Lord of the Sith who had ignored the Council, betrayed the Republic and committed atrocities. Just because Revan didn't have the "I'm evil and thus want to take over the galaxy" motive behind his actions doesn't cheapen the revelation on anyway. In fact it adds a nice twist on things, adding more mystery to Revan and portraying him as a villain who had a reason to conquer the galaxy, instead of just doing so for powers' sake.

[The Lord of Chaos]

Very well said Fallen Guardian, totally agree.

[Bob Saget]

Saying that Revan was better off without TSL's insight into him is a fallacy.

 

Kreia's discussions with the PC about Revan was like we were talking to Revan ourself. We never really knew what happened post-mandalorian wars. The idea that Revan fell to prevent a greater evil is an example of how deep this show can go. People want to stick with the OT idea that Dark Side and Light side are black and white, and TSL exposed that. It showed the flaws of the Dark Side, and the Light, yet the strength of mastering both.

 

I take TSL's intake of Revan anyday over a generic power-hungry tyrant that is what is hot. A grey-side of the dark/light dichotomy is much appreciated. However, since Bioware wanted to dust that idea, they brought back the stupid "Revan sought to conquer the galaxy for power" ****.

 

TOR in itself would have made a great singleplayer game, but it fails as an MMO. If it hadn't even mentioned Revan I would have been happier, but fact is that they decided to ruin one of the best characters of the saga. There are people who should realize that Revan is not a god, but you can't say he's an average force user either.

[mimartin]

I disagree with this as well.

You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you are right.

 

And neither am I. That is my entire point. Revan/Exile are our individual characters, we were the one playing hours on ending leveling through KotOR and TSL. We made the choices with what to do with our character. Sorry Fallen Guardian and The Lord of Chaos, but my Revan was a flawed character full of remorse for what she had done to the galaxy. She fell to the darkside in her quest for knowledge.

 

I would also like to point out TOR isn’t the first time Revan was portrayed as a pawn for a stronger entity. What was the plot for the entire story of KotOR, Jedi Council capture Revan, gives her new memories and has her save the galaxy under false pretenses.

 

the Exile's character arc didn't end with KotOR II. We were left with the Ebon Hawk flying off to find Revan, which meant that the Exile still had some story to go.

 

Sorry disagree. What was The Sith Lords about? The Sith Lords?

 

At the end of TSL you have 3 dead Sith Lords, kind of ends that arc in the story. Looking at it from the light side story, the Exile had regained his/her ability to feel the force, destroyed the Sith Lords threat, all four of them, and founded the start of the new and hopefully improved Jedi order. Also people keep forgetting that following Revan into the Unknown Region is the Exile’s choice. My Exile spent the rest of her life living in the penthouse of the Jedi temple stoned on death sticks and spice. Why would she go chasing after Revan after he/she betrayed her at Malacor V at the end of the Mandalorian wars?

 

Oh yeah, Revan didn’t fall to the darkside, yet scarified some of the republic’s best troops, for no other reason than they were loyal to the Republic and not him/her. Yeah, no sign of darkside or character flaws with that playable character.

 

 

that is to say, the player's choices as those characters

Yes that is true, but no matter what BioWare did in TOR or even in a KotOR 3, they would have done the exact same thing. Because there is no way for them to make a game that took all the choices and motivations of all the players behind Revan or the Exile into account.

How did it undermine what is great about KotOR 1 and the Star Wars universe?

 

Did you even play the game or listen to what she said, or did you just skip that?

 

Kreia said something to the effect that Revan went darkside to save the galaxy. Can we agree with that?

 

Well that goes against much of what Yoda has to say.

 

““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

 

“To answer power with power, the Jedi way this is not. In this war, a danger there is, of losing who we are.”

 

“Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.”

 

“Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.

Luke: But tell my why I can't...

Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".”

 

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.

 

Saying that Revan was better off without TSL's insight into him is a fallacy.

If that is directed at me, then I did not say that. I did mean Kreia took it too far, but we have to remember Kreia is a manipulator and was not above lying or stretching the truth to steer the Exile in the direction she wanted. She may have been overstating Revan’s power to motivate the Exile to a higher level. If you are going to take Kreia for gospel, then you have to admit, the Exile is a stronger Jedi than Revan.

 

TOR in itself would have made a great singleplayer game, but it fails as an MMO.

 

Games are a matter of opinion, TOR is a great game in my opinion. I could careless what you want to classify it as. Have no clue about other MMO's, but I am having a blast playing endgame stuff with friends in TOR.

[Qui-Don Jorn]

Yeah, my Guardian has been 50 for months and I still haven't gotten around to finishing Scourge's storyline. I think he's at about halfway. But ya know, that just means I just dont care. Revan just dosen't mean anything to me.

 

Which is where I think I kinda fall in with the majority of the people that play TOR, they aren't up in arms about the Revan/Exile thing. Because they dont care. Revan is not the God-end-all-be-all of the story that the KotOR fans made him out to be. It's just alot of people that came from WoW or other games and had no knowledge of that character and could care less. Just playing and having fun. Which is what I'd like to think it's really about.

TOR is a great/very fun game. For me anyway (and Mim too apparently).

But ya know, I'm not butthurt, so...

[Fallen Guardian]

You can disagree all you want, that doesn't mean you are right.

 

And neither am I. That is my entire point. Revan/Exile are our individual characters, we were the one playing hours on ending leveling through KotOR and TSL. We made the choices with what to do with our character. Sorry Fallen Guardian and The Lord of Chaos, but my Revan was a flawed character full of remorse for what she had done to the galaxy. She fell to the darkside in her quest for knowledge.

 

I don't see how this relates? I said I disagreed that TOR was far superior to KotOR I and KotOR II and I said Revan wasn't made infinitely important, as you said that he/she was. The fact that they're our own characters doesn't play into the fact that you said KotOR II over-hyped Revan... which it didn't.

 

I would also like to point out TOR isn’t the first time Revan was portrayed as a pawn for a stronger entity. What was the plot for the entire story of KotOR, Jedi Council capture Revan, gives her new memories and has her save the galaxy under false pretenses.

 

I don't necessarily dislike the story of Revan being a pawn of Vitiate. I dislike how they took Revan, made a stock, boring canon version of our character, and then worked him into TOR so they'd actually have something in there that was related to the two KotOR games.

 

Sorry disagree. What was The Sith Lords about? The Sith Lords?

 

At the end of TSL you have 3 dead Sith Lords, kind of ends that arc in the story. Looking at it from the light side story, the Exile had regained his/her ability to feel the force, destroyed the Sith Lords threat, all four of them, and founded the start of the new and hopefully improved Jedi order. Also people keep forgetting that following Revan into the Unknown Region is the Exile’s choice. My Exile spent the rest of her life living in the penthouse of the Jedi temple stoned on death sticks and spice. Why would she go chasing after Revan after he/she betrayed her at Malacor V at the end of the Mandalorian wars?

 

The game was focused on the Sith Lords, yes. But there is also the underlying plot of the true Sith returning at some point. Also, in the end of KotOR II, we see the Ebon Hawk flying off into the Unknown Regions to go after Revan. Whether your Exile wanted to or not is of no consequence - the game takes over at that point, with no player choice in the matter.

 

Oh yeah, Revan didn’t fall to the darkside, yet scarified some of the republic’s best troops, for no other reason than they were loyal to the Republic and not him/her. Yeah, no sign of darkside or character flaws with that playable character.

 

Uhhhh.... I never said Revan didn't fall to the dark side, or wasn't evil. I just said he had a better reason for his attempted conquest of the Republic than most villains do.

 

Yes that is true, but no matter what BioWare did in TOR or even in a KotOR 3, they would have done the exact same thing. Because there is no way for them to make a game that took all the choices and motivations of all the players behind Revan or the Exile into account.

 

True, they could never fully take into account all the possible motivations and decisions. However, they did something similar with Mass Effect, hell they even did it somewhat in KotOR II. Even just having the most basic, largest decisions in KotOR I and II be carried over would have been better than what we got.

 

 

Did you even play the game or listen to what she said, or did you just skip that?

 

Well, if I'd skipped that part I doubt we'd be having this conversation.

 

Kreia said something to the effect that Revan went darkside to save the galaxy. Can we agree with that?

 

Yes.

 

Well that goes against much of what Yoda has to say.

 

““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

 

“To answer power with power, the Jedi way this is not. In this war, a danger there is, of losing who we are.”

 

“Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.”

 

“Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.

Luke: But tell my why I can't...

Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".”

 

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.

 

Who cares what Yoda says? Yoda's teaching HIS and the JEDI'S philosophy to Luke. Last time I checked, the Jedi weren't the only group in the galaxy with their own ideas. Just because what Revan did disagreed with what Yoda believed, doesn't mean it disagrees with every facet of the Star Wars Universe.

[mimartin]

Also, in the end of KotOR II, we see the Ebon Hawk flying off into the Unknown Regions to go after Revan. Whether your Exile wanted to or not is of no consequence - the game takes over at that point, with no player choice in the matter.

Kreia says your can't take your companions with you into the Unknown Region, so what happened at the end of TSL, you are flying into the Unknown Region. What did the Exile do, kick the companions off the ship after they rescued her and then let them blow up with the planet? How do you know it was the Unknown Region? Did I miss a space roadsign or something?

 

Makes perfect sense to me to just fly off into the Unknown Region on a ship that just crashed with only emergency repairs done to it.

 

My ship was flying to a vacation, I think the Exile deserved it.

 

doesn't mean it disagrees with every facet of the Star Wars Universe.

Going to ignore the rest because of this statment. Where did I write it disagrees with EVERY facet? Hint I didn't.

[Fallen Guardian]

Kreia says your can't take you companions with you into the Unknown Region, so what happened at the end of TSL, you are flying into the Unknown Region. What did the Exile do, kick the companions off the ship after they rescued her and the let them blow up with the planet? How do you know it was the Unknown Region? Did I miss a space roadsign or something?

 

No, you didn't miss a roadsign. I may have been wrong saying that it completely ended with them flying into the Unknown Regions (that's just how I've always seen it) but it's a somewhat foregone conclusion by the end of the game that the Exile's going out there sooner or later to find Revan.

 

Going to ignore the rest because of this statment. Where did I write it disagrees with EVERY facet? Hint I didn't.

 

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.

 

You said this right? You said it doesn't fit in with the Star Wars universe, after quoting Yoda a bunch of times. Meaning, you said it disagreed with Star Wars in its entirety, which would mean every facet.

[mimartin]

Yeah I wrote that, but that says nothing about EVERY FACET, does it?

 

What I wrote was a lot more specific than that.

[Fallen Guardian]

You said what Revan did does not "fit in the star wars universe." To me, the Star Wars Universe refers to Star Wars as a whole, meaning EVERY FACET of Star Wars. So, for you to say that means what Revan did is in disagreement with EVERY FACET of Star Wars. Perhaps you don't think of the term "the Star Wars Universe" as meaning anything and everything Star Wars, but that's generally the way I've seen it used.

 

And what you wrote was no more specific. I quoted you exactly. If you look up at the post where I also quoted all of your Yoda quotes, I addressed every part of you said in regards to the topic of Revan's motivation being for something good destroys the Star Wars Universe. You asked if I'd actually listened to Kreia talk about that in-game, which I said I did. You asked if we could agree that Kreia said Revan went to the dark side to save the galaxy, I agreed. You then posted that this disagrees with what Yoda said, and so therefore you're not really sure of how it fits in the Star Wars Universe.

[mimartin]

no I didn't....I wrote that doing evil for the sake of good, did not fit into the Star Wars universe.

 

Which it does not.

 

You are the one that added the every facet stuff.

 

And you are the one that wrote Revan did not fit in, not me.

[Fallen Guardian]

You said that doing evil for the sake of good, did not fit into the Star Wars universe (which you shakily backed up with quotes from Yoda, a known Jedi master and ultimate believer in Jedi philosophy). And we have already agreed Revan did evil for the sake of good. Thus, by your statement, Revan's actions do not fit into the Star Wars Universe. Therefore, Revan's actions disagree with every facet of Star Wars, according to what you said.

[mimartin]

Yeah and by your logic 2+2 = 4000

 

I never agreed Revan did evil for the sake of good, I wrote, that is what Keria said, a known lair and manipulator

.

And I never jump to any of the conclusions you atributed to me. I wrote what I wrote, no need to add to it and fill in the blanks.

[Fallen Guardian]

Yeah and by your logic 2+2 = 4000

 

And I never jump to any of the conclusions you atributed to me. I wrote what I wrote, no need to add to it and fill in the blanks.

 

My logic is this: You said that doing a to achieve b violates the Star Wars Universe. So, by your statement, Revan's actions, when he/she did a to achieve b, violate the Star Wars Universe. Sounds a lot like 2 + 2 = 4 to me.

 

I never agreed Revan did evil for the sake of good, I wrote, that is what Keria wrote, a known lair and manipulator.

 

Okay, that is what you said. However, you also went beyond that, as shown below:

 

If that is directed at me, then I did not say that. I did mean Kreia took it too far, but we have to remember Kreia is a manipulator and was not above lying or stretching the truth to steer the Exile in the direction she wanted. She may have been overstating Revan’s power to motivate the Exile to a higher level. If you are going to take Kreia for gospel, then you have to admit, the Exile is a stronger Jedi than Revan.

 

Yeah, Kreia's a liar and a manipulator, but what motive could she have for telling the Exile that a war, that he/she wasn't even aware of until talking to Atton on Peragus, had a more noble intention behind it than what the public knew. This doesn't really help steer the Exile in any direction.

 

Also, if I did take Kreia's word as gospel I'd have no qualms over saying the Exile is a stronger Jedi than Revan. Heck, it's not too far fetched for me to say it even without me taking Kreia's every word as fact.

[mimartin]

But it is your conclusion not mine. Don't attribute what I consider nonsense to me. I will write what I want to say.

 

I didnt. go that deeply or what I consider falsely into it.

[Fallen Guardian]

But it is your conclusion not mine.I will write what I want to say.

 

It may not be exactly what you wrote but it's what I got from it. Especially considering you said what you said in reply to my questioning of Bellator, and how he said Kreia undermines what is great about the Star Wars Universe. I'm sure many people would agree with me that what I arrived at as a conclusion appeared to be an obvious representation of what you believed, given the wording of your reply and what statements you were replying to.

 

Don't attribute what I consider nonsense to me.

 

I can't really see how you could believe what you said, and then consider my conclusion off of your statement nonsense.

 

I didnt. go that deeply or what I consider falsely into it.

 

You technically can't go "falsely" into something but whatever, I see what you mean by that. Whether you went that deeply in so many words or not, the implications are still very much there.

[mimartin]

Well since you just make up my meaning, I will leave you to continue the debate on your own. Anything I write would be irrelevant since you just make it up to fit your argument.

[Fallen Guardian]

If you can't see the logic behind what I've said and insist I'm just lying to support myself, there's nothing really more to do besides be done with this. At least if you'd beaten me I would've admitted it.

[mimartin]

If you would have actually debated and won I would have admitted defeat, but you didn't want to debate. You wanted to give new meaning to what I wrote. 2nd this really isn't a win or lose debate (even if you read what I actually wrote) it is merely opinion. That said, I have been known to change my opinion when some actually debates what I actually wrote.

 

For the record I am not saying you are lying to support your stance, but you are totally misrepresent what I wrote and completely misunderstanding my meaning. Instead of asking of asking for clarification. You just treated it as factual even when I wrote it was incorrect.

[Bob Saget]

This is practically going back and forth. I was going to draw up a response to the Revan portion, but I guess I'll withdraw from that debate since someone either mis-interpreted what I said or took it a bit too seriously.

 

However, I will respond to the idea that you didn't read what I said mimartin. I said that TOR would have made a great singleplayer, not a multiplayer. TOR is practically a WoW clone just like any other game out there. After you beat the story, there is little to do. Pretty much the game ends, and everything becomes repetitive. A good MMO doesn't do that. If it managed to add something else other than the story, then it wouldn't have gone F2P. MMO logic 101

 

Also, I am skeptical of TOR since I have lost faith in Bioware thanks to DA2 and ME3.

[mimartin]

After you beat the story, there is little to do. Pretty much the game ends, and everything becomes repetitive

 

They have added plenty and are about to add even more, but then we are talking about taste. However, I have been playing since beta and I have plenty to do in endgame content, but then again I enjoy operations and group content. I can see where it would get very repetitive if someone was just doing single player stuff. However, I find group content anything but repetitive since people all do things differently. No two operations are exactly the same. I always find something new in group play. Again it may be a difference in people’s taste or the fact that my main is a healer and I have never played that type of role in any other game.

 

I was also against TOR, I wanted a RPG sequel to TSL, but it just isn’t that terrible game people have made it out to be. To me, it is more like bioware’s earlier games, KotOR and Jade Empire, just something you can play with friends.

 

Did you even play the game or listen to what she said, or did you just skip that?

 

Kreia said something to the effect that Revan went darkside to save the galaxy. Can we agree with that?

 

Well that goes against much of what Yoda has to say.

 

““Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

 

“To answer power with power, the Jedi way this is not. In this war, a danger there is, of losing who we are.”

 

“Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil.”

 

“Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack.

Luke: But tell my why I can't...

Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".”

 

So yeah, not really sure how being evil to do good fits in the star wars universe.

 

All I was doing is giving one example of what Kreia said that undermined KotOR or the Star Wars Universe. This was the only part of my reply directed at this question.

 

1st You may not care what Yoda has to say on the subject, but to me the movies are Star Wars, the rest is just superficial drivel to me (nothing against people that love EU, but it just isn’t my thing), so when talking the Star Wars Universe Yoda is the authority when it comes to the force. You don’t accept that, I don’t care, because I am only talking about my opinion, you have the right to yours and I have the right to mine.

 

2nd So what I was saying Kriea said Revan went Darkside to save the galaxy, but according to Yoda, the darkside is not the stronger way or the better way it is just the easy way, the lazy way.

 

To me Star Wars has always been more like the old western movies, the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad. There isn’t much grey in any of the movies.

 

So to me Revan going dark side to save the galaxy is saying Revan was just taking the easy way out. So he was just lazy, it was easier to just conquer than it was to take a lightside option. So you destroy your own troops to make the republic stronger, yeah that makes perfect sense to me.

 

So as you can see my rational had nothing to do with every facet of the universe. I was just giving 1 example from memory to something Kreia said that punched holes in the Star Wars Universe concept of good vs evil and the same thing kind of distorts the Revan I played in KotOR.

 

A little different from what someone surmised I meant from my example.

[Fallen Guardian]

If you would have actually debated and won I would have admitted defeat, but you didn't want to debate. You wanted to give new meaning to what I wrote. 2nd this really isn't a win or lose debate (even if you read what I actually wrote) it is merely opinion. That said, I have been known to change my opinion when some actually debates what I actually wrote.

 

For the record I am not saying you are lying to support your stance, but you are totally misrepresent what I wrote and completely misunderstanding my meaning. Instead of asking of asking for clarification. You just treated it as factual even when I wrote it was incorrect.

 

I debated what you wrote, especially given that you never offered anything as an alternative to my misunderstanding of what you wrote, aside from just stating I was wrong. But I'd really like to end this back and forth, and do so without bad blood. So could we just say the whole thing was a misunderstanding on both our parts and agree to leave this issue be?

[mimartin]

I debated what you wrote, especially given that you never offered anything as an alternative to my misunderstanding of what you wrote, aside from just stating I was wrong. [/QUOTe] you didn't ask for clarification either, so I just assumed you didn’t care to know what I meant in my reply to that question.

 

As to bad blood, while I take offense to people putting words in my mouth, I am a strong advocate to everyone having a right to their opinion and being allowed to make up there on mind. I just don’t like when they try to tell me how I feel or my opinion. My own family does not know me well enough to define my opinion on a majority of subjects. However, I take nothing personal on an internet gaming forum on something as trivial as discussion about a game.

 

It isn’t like I have the power to ban you or anything like that….Oh wait I do…

 

 

Joke - Trust me, if I banned everyone that disagreed with me, Achilles, Totenkopf, Tommycat, Q, Lynk and pretty much everyone else would be banned. I would be very lonely hanging out around here.

 

[Tommycat]

Yeah, Kreia's a liar and a manipulator, but what motive could she have for telling the Exile that a war, that he/she wasn't even aware of until talking to Atton on Peragus, had a more noble intention behind it than what the public knew. This doesn't really help steer the Exile in any direction.

 

Also, if I did take Kreia's word as gospel I'd have no qualms over saying the Exile is a stronger Jedi than Revan. Heck, it's not too far fetched for me to say it even without me taking Kreia's every word as fact.

 

Okay, I don't get it.... You admit Kreia is a liar. You admit she didn't even know about the war until Atton mentioned it. Yet you take her word on the MOTIVATIONS FOR THAT WAR? Seems fishy. I'd say her track record seems to prove that the only thing she was consistent on was manipulating the Exile into doing her bidding. She convinced the Exile to either kill or draw out the remaining jedi, and kill the ones who wronged her. She is more like the emperor in convincing people to do bad by changing the facts to fit her narrative. That's very consistent with Star Wars. The idea of Revan being somehow immune to the dark side influence seems outside the consistencies of Star Wars.

[Fallen Guardian]

Okay, I don't get it.... You admit Kreia is a liar. You admit she didn't even know about the war until Atton mentioned it.

 

I admitted Kreia was known to lie. I said the Exile didn't know about the war before Peragus though, not Kreia.

 

Yet you take her word on the MOTIVATIONS FOR THAT WAR? Seems fishy. I'd say her track record seems to prove that the only thing she was consistent on was manipulating the Exile into doing her bidding. She convinced the Exile to either kill or draw out the remaining jedi, and kill the ones who wronged her. She is more like the emperor in convincing people to do bad by changing the facts to fit her narrative.

 

I take her word for it because there is no reason to stretch the truth about Revan's motivations. Kreia stands to gain nothing manipulation-wise if she tells the Exile Revan had a nobler goal in attacking the Republic than most people believed. As I've already said, the Exile didn't learn of the war until Peragus. How could knowing the intentions of one of the agressors behind the war the Exile didn't even participate in, let alone know about, help to manipulate him/her?

 

The idea of Revan being somehow immune to the dark side influence seems outside the consistencies of Star Wars.

 

I never said Revan was immune to the dark side or that he/she never fell to the dark side, I said he/she had a much better reason to go out and conquer the Republic than other dark side villains do.