Canon and New Movies, Your Opinion?

[Kurgan]

I wonder what EU stuff people are comfortable with losing. Is it just stuff that's older (nostalgia)? People want to keep the Zahn stuff, but I'm guessing not the earlier Marvel Comics stuff? They want to jettison the new stuff like New Jedi Order but not Clone Wars or Old Republic?

 

The Kevin J. Anderson stuff and the Stackpole stuff was ruthlessly mocked, but it formed the backbone for a lot of stuff that was to come later. Few remember the Alan Dean Foster stuff or the things that were ignored from the Radio Dramas or film novelizations. People apparently loved Infinities even though it was never canon. Let's not forget the "Tales" series, inventing improbable backstories for every background character ever glimpsed in the movies.

 

And we all recall the endless fascination with the Holiday Special (and especially the Boba Fett cartoon which I'm not sure how anyone can rationalize as being in continuity with the movies). Then you get our own Jedi Outcast which basically rips off "I, Jedi."

 

Some of the EU stuff is really popular, others of it has nostalgia for certain fans. If they use any of the EU, it's going to upset some people. Some of the older EU stuff was derived from unused concepts from the original Trilogy production, but it's no more "canon" than anything else. They're starting over.

 

It's funny though, even as I'm talking about this, it sounds like I'm imagining Disney execs in Spielbergian space suits kicking down doors and grabbing EU novels, games, comics and toys out of the hands of fans and slamming the doors in their faces. Or fans lining up to toss all their Star Wars merch into a big bonfire in front of a giant statue of Bob Iger. Nothing is really "going away" it's just what stuff would be considered relevant to the new movies and movie spinoff stuff.

 

So this will determine if they'll mention Mara Jade or the Vong in the Episode VII novelization. Will somebody cry in the theater if Mark Hamill doesn't get a red headed former Palpatine lackey as his spouse? If Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have force-sensitive children that aren't a set of twins named Jaina and Jacen and another son named Anakin? If Luke doesn't start a "Jedi Academy" at the Massassi Temple on Yavin IV? If Kyle Katarn isn't mentioned somewhere for all the stuff he did in the old EU? Chances are they could just not mention any of the stuff, but if it's touching on the "personal histories" of the main cast from the Original Trilogy, I guess somebody will be miffed that their favorite thing was left out.

 

I couldn't care less what they do, so long as the new movies are good. They should at least be better than the prequels. I would say they should be in strict continuity with the old movies, but Lucas messed around so much with the continuity already, I'm not sure that's practical.

 

I could dream that they'd really only acknowledge the Original Trilogy, but since the Prequels were so hyped up so recently, I can't imagine they'd be paid any less attention. But there's a difference between essential plot points vs. name-dropping fanservice. Like do we need a scene of the principals meeting an elderly Jar Jar in the nursing home?

 

I'm not mocking people who liked the EU through all its twists and turns. I am a little amused by the idea that we're freaking out over some fictional side stories not being taken into consideration with this newest set of sequels to this fictional franchise. If the new stuff is just as good or better, enough people will buy it that they won't care who was upset.

 

So how best to appeal to old fans while drawing in new ones?

[Kurgan]

That is a good question though... will the "G-canon" stuff outside the films be kept as well or will it be thrown into the bin with the rest of the EU?

 

We've got the screenplays, movie novelizations, radio dramas... and the "T-Canon" of the CG Clone Wars movie and tv-series. Is that staying too? I personally don't care if all or none of either set is "kept" but I'm curious. Will they clarify that now, or do like they've done in the past and clarify it every few years from now until after the movies are out?

 

Will RPG players get upset if there's a bunch of changes to the games based on the new movies?

[Verranicus]

I think it would be just lovely if they could avoid stepping on what was once established canon, but for the betterment moving forward, do what must be done.

[Redwing]

I think it would be just lovely if they could avoid stepping on what was once established canon, but for the betterment moving forward, do what must be done.

 

That's completely impossible in pretty much every way. It's also fairly pointless; while Chewbacca's death was better than it seemed at the time, it makes no sense if you ditch the Vong story -- and I would argue you should ditch the Vong story, because while it was actually good in parts, it really didn't work for the Star Wars universe very well. A problem with a great deal of the EU (though by no means all).

 

And even if you disagree with that, there's still no point to effectively offscreen-kill a fan favorite. The way this should probably work would be to just outright re-tell the Vong story and have Chewie's death onscreen so it would have the same impact.

 

Or you could just cut it and not lose very much. The Vong story mainly served itself, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make it easy to toss out. Whereas the Thrawn stuff, and to a lesser extent (though IMO equal in quality) KotOR, served the larger universe as well.

 

(And seriously, bring in Mara Jade as badass lady villain turned love interest. PLEASE. History details optional.)

 

Delayed reply, I know, but this is still the official site poll, so.

[Neville01]

Just look at Captain Raymus Antilles, commander of the Tantive IV. You can't tell me the man shown in Revenge of the Sith is a younger version of the man seen in A New Hope. If anything, the version portrayed by Peter Geddis in A New Hope looks younger than the one portrayed by Rohan Nichol in Revenge of the Sith. I admire Captain Raymus Antilles, as portrayed by Peter Geddis, for getting all the troops assigned to the ship ready to fight, and for refusing to give Darth Vader information even while his own throat was being crushed.

We intercepted no transmissions. This is a consular ship... We're on a diplomatic mission!

[mattig89ch]

I'd prefer they stick to cannon as much as possible. But, lets face it, there will be times when they need to deviate.

 

I would prefer they change the original cast to some younger folks, I just hope they go out of their way to pick the right cast. Otherwise this will be a very short reboot (1 movie). I can't see a studio picking up this franchise if this movie flops.

 

That said, I am looking forward to it.

[Redwing]

I'd prefer they stick to cannon as much as possible. But, lets face it, there will be times when they need to deviate.

 

I would prefer they change the original cast to some younger folks, I just hope they go out of their way to pick the right cast. Otherwise this will be a very short reboot (1 movie). I can't see a studio picking up this franchise if this movie flops.

 

That said, I am looking forward to it.

 

Slightly late on that account! The EU is mostly de-canonized. Deviation will be the rule, not the exception.

 

There's already... I think five total movies picked up (I could be wrong; at least four -- a new trilogy and one stand-alone).

 

There is the original cast, and also a new generation.

[Zoom Rabbit]

The new movies should coincide with the six movies, and maybe the cartoons.

 

Screw the books, comic books and video games. Gotta draw the line somewhere, or Star Wars fans risk getting silly like Trekkies with the nerdliness...

 

[Kurgan]

As far as nerdiness goes, I hate to break it to you, but we're already there. The fact that we're even giving any space to polls and topics like this one proves we're among the guilty. Own it!

 

A lot of "loose ends" could be tied up, if anyone cares, in the novelisations. If that stuff is not contradicted outright but just explained elsewhere, that's probably a good compromise solution. But the question is why? They want to make the most fans happy to make more money and keep them loyal, right?

 

Looking back on this topic right now, I still think if there is ANY attempt to be consistent with past material, the bare minimum that these new movies should try to do is stay consistent with the Original Trilogy. That's it. That's supposedly the whole reason they are making these movies, is to appeal to nostalgia and "continue" the saga of the original trilogy. There's no real need to even bring up the prequels (but I'm sure they will, just because $$$). I started to feel like Lucas set himself up for this cycle of having to keep "swerving" us with new plot twists and deliberately contradicting his old material, just to keep people guessing from the start of the Prequels. This is not something the new team needs to do, but they also don't need to feel like they have to just recycle the old movies and just make them "darker" with more lens flares.

 

I regularly run into people who have just learned new movies are being made, who grew up with the Prequels. They're casual fans, if anything, who are curious about the new stories. Some of them haven't even seen the OT all the way through. These folks will come to the theater because they are curious, not because they appreciated the originals or are looking for all of it to fit together. Generally I'm sure those people won't notice snafus in the continuity. But these aren't, correct me if I'm wrong, being marketed as "reboots" or "re-imagingings" of Star Wars but "Episode VII, VIII & IX" right? These are supposed to be a continuation of the OT, so for their own good, that is the minimum they should shoot for.

 

It all comes down to "whom are they making these films for?" If it's for OT fans, then they need to get that part right and not destroy the legacy of that beloved trilogy. If it's for casual fans who don't care about that stuff, there's nothing lost by staying true to the old stuff. This problem of trying to have it both ways and failing at each is what tarnished the prequels and to a greater degree, what got Star Trek Enterprise cancelled. It's one thing if they want to make some movies that will be box office blockbusters but that are forgotten within a year. If they start cranking them out just to make them (like Marvel super hero movies) then we're in big trouble, as quality is going to tank, and quality is what it's all about. A good film that stands the test of time is what they need to make, not just a flash in the pan cash-in.

 

In the final analysis, to beat my own dead horse on a broken record player, if the movies are entertaining with a plausible and engaging storyline and likeable characters, etc. then a LOT will be forgiven in terms of how well it melds with what's come before. Still, I hope they at least make a better effort to stay consistent with the original films than Lucas did (sorry George).

[Zoom Rabbit]

Well, okay. But if anyone starts talking about timelines and multiverses, heads are coming off.

 

*(Holds up a sword, which throws off a mighty lens flare.)*

 

Nice to see you again, Kurgan.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, feels like it's been a hundred years...

[Darth Avlectus]

That is a good question though... will the "G-canon" stuff outside the films be kept as well or will it be thrown into the bin with the rest of the EU?

Well regardless, I wouldn't exactly say legends is a trash bin as previously thought. It seems a strategy to hold for later, since much of it is/tried to be consistent. The work for expansion is basically already done.

Consider once this whole rash of new canon has run its course...it would make sense from an entrepreneur sense if they "marvelized" it to keep it relevant in 15-20 years. Considering Disney bought marvel comics and that marvel had prior done multiple dimensions and multiverse and whatnot... I'd say we have a pretty good lead-in with the various possibilities presented in Infinities and even the KOTOR/SWTOR had its critical juncture points for that.

 

On second thought, maybe it's better to leave the dead alone. I despised thor just like I despised superman, but I would never wish upon thor what has already been done in their recent reboot, though. There's no literary reason for what they have done. And really I shouldn't even be mentioning that much, it's attrocious.

 

 

We've got the screenplays, movie novelizations, radio dramas... and the "T-Canon" of the CG Clone Wars movie and tv-series. Is that staying too? I personally don't care if all or none of either set is "kept" but I'm curious. Will they clarify that now, or do like they've done in the past and clarify it every few years from now until after the movies are out?

Well...they're already stepping on their own toes. The Clone wars alludes to Rule of Two of the sith at that point--several times. And yet they claim this is no longer valid.

 

 

Will RPG players get upset if there's a bunch of changes to the games based on the new movies?

SWTOR you mean? That depends whether or not they contradict it mid-course and turn it into a hackneyed cluster****. In short: Yes if they **** it up it'll be rather annoying. But this actually begs the question of something else... Does remoteness in timeline mean potential re-canonization?

 

Recently Drew Karpyshyn (author of Revan and Darth Bane novels, story writer for KOTOR and some of SWTOR--as if we didn't already know) was interviewed on YouTube for his thoughts on the new canon and especially how the armor of the new villain (the one with the light claymore) is looking similar to Revan's armor.

 

He basically said that he's paid some attention and that this was "interesting". He realizes business is business, though he wishes his material didn't have to be retconned. HOWEVER: He's noticed that stuff that far out on the timeline from the movies has remained largely untouched.

 

He went on to say he 'wouldn't mind' working on something if approached.

 

 

Far as I'm concerned: I've already resigned myself to 'niche' or 'relic' SW fan of legends.

They will do what they want regardless. No hard feelings. I ain't really following the new stuff--but if you want to see it, hey knock yourself out.

 

 

 

Well, okay. But if anyone starts talking about timelines and multiverses, heads are coming off.

 

*(Holds up a sword, which throws off a mighty lens flare.)*

*force tutaminis*

 

Got news for ya, people have *already* been talking about this. considering Disney owns Marvel and Marvel did it for DECADES successfully, as DC is doing, it isn't out of the realm.

[CaptainDread]

I don't really care too much about canon, to be honest. It doesn't really bother me if something goes against something that happened earlier, as the contradictions can always be explained later by another writer (and this happens often, especially in science fiction).