Source what exactly?

[Canderis]

That does not answer my question.

[dave450]

Sorry,

 

I can't really say as to legalities of it. Maybe asking the author himself could help shed some light?

 

Considering that a lot of the data structure pertaining to the Aurora engine had , at one point, been released by Bioware themselves, I would think that the information could used freely.

But to what limits, I can't say. I'm not a copyright owner and their opinion is what ultimately matters.

[DarthParametric]

They are basically trying to build a whole new engine that just loads Aurora/Odyssey resources. As far as legality goes, as long as they don't distribute any propriety stuff, it should be fine. The end user would need to supply a copy of the original game (which has the assets). There's a similar project that has pretty much already made a multi-platform version of the Infinity engine (BG1/2, Icewind Dale 1/2, Torment).

 

Concerning the relatedness of this project to the current thread, there is none. They are making a new engine to load existing assets, not a toolset to create new assets. Assuming they succeeded tomorrow, the situation would be no different to what it is now (except presumably you could play KOTOR natively on Linux).

[glovemaster]

Hi everyone,

 

Long time lurker, I did a quick forum search and didn't find anything related so I thought I'd share about project Xoreos http://xoreos.org/

 

From the website:

 

"What is xoreos? xoreos is an ongoing FLOSS project to reimplement BioWare's Aurora engine (and derivatives) as used in their 3D games, beginning with Neverwinter Nights.

The goal is to have a portable program to play those games even on operating systems those games were never meant to be played on, such as GNU/Linux and Mac OS X."

 

Haha that's cool, they're using some ancient documentation on the kotor MDL format though, they won't get it working properly off that; I think they should just redo it first person and shake it up a bit aha

[DrMcCoy]

What exactly is the legality of this anyways?

The legality is the same as for projects using similar approaches (including ScummVM and GemRB, and some of the clones listed here: http://osgameclones.com/): Should be legal in Europe (interoperability), might be problematic in the US due to the DMCA. I am not a lawyer, though.

 

xoreos does adapt the same stance towards piracy ScummVM has: We don't support it.

 

Concerning the relatedness of this project to the current thread, there is none.

Truth. A toolset would be a separate project. One that could potentially benefit from xoreos, but a separate project nonetheless.

 

Haha that's cool, they're using some ancient documentation on the kotor MDL format though

If you know of more up-to-date and complete specs, I'd be happy to read them.

Or alternatively, sources of tools capable of reading in KotOR MDLs.

[Fair Strides 2]

If you know of more up-to-date and complete specs, I'd be happy to read them.

Or alternatively, sources of tools capable of reading in KotOR MDLs.

 

Not saying it's the most informative, but here.

[DrMcCoy]

Not saying it's the most informative, but here.

Which is exactly the one I'm using: https://github.com/DrMcCoy/xoreos-tools/blob/master/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html

 

As you can see, this has been added to the xoreos-tools repository 11 months ago, and was in the main xoreos repository before that for another while.

 

drmccoy@Tchibo:~$ wget "http://cchargin.home.comcast.net/~cchargin/kotor/mdl_info.html"
drmccoy@Tchibo:~$ diff -s mdl_info.html ~/projects/xoreos/tools/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html 
Files mdl_info.html and /home/drmccoy/projects/xoreos/tools/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html are identical

[glovemaster]

Those mdl specs were published before I started modding in '07, unfortunately despite several advancements in understanding the kotor mdl and walk mesh format since then, I don't think anyone actually shared them - best guy to go to is magnusll on these forums, I believe he has limited Internet connection where he lives but he's the last guy I know of to have the most complete specs

[DrMcCoy]

despite several advancements in understanding the kotor mdl and walk mesh format since then, I don't think anyone actually shared them

You know, this is why I'm a bit bitter about modding scenes. Barely anybody is willing to freely share what they found out, or even, goddess forbid, sources for their tools.

 

EDIT: Seriously, from my point of view, source releases should be required for all community-built modding tools.

 

EDIT2: In either case, thanks for the pointer. I'll go ask magnusll.

[glovemaster]

In all honesty I can't hold it against magnusll as he didn't actually distribute KAuroraEditor himself, he just took the time out to work with a few of us, including myself, to get models to compile properly. I stopped modding while he was still working but I'm pretty sure whoever it ended up with when he finished it distributed it amongst the community, I have no idea if he gave them the source and if they made that available but I'm sure he'll be happy to send you a copy if you can get in touch with him

[DrMcCoy]

Sure, wasn't meant as a personal attack on magnusll (or you for that matter). it's just a bit frustrating how binary-only tools and no docs seem to be the norm in modding communities. Reverse-engineering third-party tools gets old quickly.

 

Would be great if he could give me more info on the format, yes.

[Fair Strides 2]

Which is exactly the one I'm using: https://github.com/DrMcCoy/xoreos-tools/blob/master/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html

 

As you can see, this has been added to the xoreos-tools repository 11 months ago, and was in the main xoreos repository before that for another while.

 

drmccoy@Tchibo:~$ wget "http://cchargin.home.comcast.net/~cchargin/kotor/mdl_info.html"
drmccoy@Tchibo:~$ diff -s mdl_info.html ~/projects/xoreos/tools/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html 
Files mdl_info.html and /home/drmccoy/projects/xoreos/tools/docs/specs/kotor_mdl.html are identical

 

Then do you know what the unkowns are?

[VarsityPuppet]

I've had my share of discoveries, but the reason most are kept to myself is because I'm too lazy to write tutorials.

 

That and I figure it might be best to just make a program that can do it for the common modder.

[glovemaster]

Sure, wasn't meant as a personal attack on magnusll (or you for that matter). it's just a bit frustrating how binary-only tools and no docs seem to be the norm in modding communities. Reverse-engineering third-party tools gets old quickly.

 

Would be great if he could give me more info on the format, yes.

 

I wasn't offended or anything I agree though, especially if the job is only half done at least share the source for someone else to pick up where you left off

[Fair Strides 2]

You know, this is why I'm a bit bitter about modding scenes. Barely anybody is willing to freely share what they found out, or even, goddess forbid, sources for their tools.

 

EDIT: Seriously, from my point of view, source releases should be required for all community-built modding tools.

 

EDIT2: In either case, thanks for the pointer. I'll go ask magnusll.

 

Tk102, who made the KSE and many other tools, has released the source code for all his tools. I know because I have a new version of KSE ready, but I can't finish it because I'm having issues installing zlib and libpng on Windows 7/XP. Anyone know any way for perl to show alpha-layer compliant images without PNG? Or a guide to installing the parts I can't?

[DrMcCoy]

Well, since I exclusively work on GNU/Linux for a long now (my last Windows was an 98SE), I for one can't help you there.

[Fair Strides 2]

Well, since I exclusively work on GNU/Linux for a long now (my last Windows was an 98SE), I for one can't help you there.

 

Yeah...I checked ActiveState's ppm database, and they have a working one for perl 5.14, but the source code might not work unless I use 5.16. I came into Perl(and am only self-taught) last November, so I'm not sure of any of the major changes that have happened in between the versions. I know that Perl tries to be backwards compatible, but it can't be forward compatible...