PMHH01 clipping fix, but still has problems

[redrob41]

I believe the bones of PMHC04 clip through the face during the Talk_Forceful animation. Well, something clips through the face, but I think it's the bones.

I had a look at this in-game with that animation, and it looks like his eyeballs clip through. It should be easy enough to push those back a bit, and use the Taina's replacer method. I'm glad you mentioned it, because I use that head for one of my playable humans. I'll have to fix that for sure.

 

Like I said before, if you could fix VP's canonical Revan head, as a separate request, that'd be grand. He put it up in his resource pack - http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/213-vp-modders-source-compilation/

In all fairness, that mod would not have been possible without RedRob!

I forgot all about working on that with you VP. Next I'll be forgetting my keys and glasses (oh wait, I don't wear glasses)

 

@ Kainzorus, since that head has some added geometry, I won't be able to fix the smoothing on the edges with this new method. I got my PMHH01 to work because I only changed some bone weights, and hex edited the original files. The key part of the process, is that MDLOps wasn't used to re-compile the ascii into binary (mdl + mdx).

 

Yes, existing retextures will be fine. The head is unchanged for the purposes of texturing. Only bone weights were edited, not UVs.

Exactly. The new mdx will work with any previous or new mod made by anyone using that texture and model for PMHH01.

[JCarter426]

Ah, the eyes... that makes sense. Looking forward to it.

[DarthParametric]

I'm not sure how much you can do to address that problem. It's not a weighting issue, it's simply a case of the extent and nature of deformation in the animation not being suitable for that head. If you alter the eyes to try and fix that animation, they are going to be messed up for all the other animations.

 

It's interesting that I never noticed the issue in-game myself. PMHC04 was always my go-to TSL head. It has been a while since I last played, but I can't say I recall ever seeing that animation used. Is there a specific instance?

[JCarter426]

Not for the player, no. But it's very hard to miss if you do apply the animation.

 

I don't think it should be a problem, though, because that part of the eye shouldn't be visible in any animation anyway.

[Sith Holocron]

All of this work with heads' vertices . . . I suppose this might free up some extra heads for you to skin for your "Playable Characters from RoR" work in progress?

[redrob41]

I'm not sure how much you can do to address that problem. It's not a weighting issue, it's simply a case of the extent and nature of deformation in the animation not being suitable for that head. If you alter the eyes to try and fix that animation, they are going to be messed up for all the other animations.

I usually try to leave the eyes alone when messing with "new" head models, for precisely that reason. With this one, I can just make the lower lid a little puffier (not too much or he'll have sleepy guy bags under his eyes ). That way, the eyeball itself is unchanged, and hopefully the mesh of the eye socket will actually cover it.

 

All of this work with heads' vertices . . . I suppose this might free up some extra heads for you to skin for your "Playable Characters from RoR" work in progress?

It's while working on portraits for that mod that I'm finding little things that bug me, and I can't just obsessive compulsively leave it alone. The clipping on PMHH01 has always bugged me, ever since my first playthrough (which I never did finish). I figured that, by now, somebody should be able to do something about it. I guess that's me .

[DarthParametric]

The problem is that if you edit the mesh, you are going to be right back where you started - broken smoothing.

[redrob41]

The problem is that if you edit the mesh, you are going to be right back where you started - broken smoothing.

No, I'd use the Taina's replacer. If I'm just moving verts around, and replacing coordinates, then the smoothing stays intact.

[VarsityPuppet]

I did a little hex investigating and I didn't really get anywhere... unfortunately.

 

Turns out that there are 12 empty bytes from the offset to the actual face information. I'm getting a feeling they might not matter all that much, to be honest...

 

Unfortunately, I don't know too much about the face data as it is in the file. I'll look into it a bit later.

[Fair Strides 2]

I did a little hex investigating and I didn't really get anywhere... unfortunately.

 

Turns out that there are 12 empty bytes from the offset to the actual face information. I'm getting a feeling they might not matter all that much, to be honest...

 

Unfortunately, I don't know too much about the face data as it is in the file. I'll look into it a bit later.

 

On the bright side, we(or at last I) are fairly sure that the .mdx file just contains the weighting info, most likely just bones.

 

If you think about it, it makes sense: cameras and certain minigame models have essentially 0kb .mdx files. Whereas any creature definitely has a .mdx with info in it.

 

Also, the .mdx could possibly contain the info for how much each animation affects the model's parts...

[Super Saiyan 4 Revan]

Someone tell me that RedRob is still planning to release this.

[jjb75]

It seems that somebody already fixed this a while ago.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=194747

[L0ki194]

It seems that somebody already fixed this a while ago.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=194747

 

The only problem with that head model, is that it can't use the default texture without some editing of the texture (Which they included)

 

But here's this skin by DarthParametric for example:

 

Unedited, original model, texture has default layout

'That' edited model, same texture

 

While it does fix the model, it screws up the the default texture layout, and it's noticeable. But it looks like RedRobs version doesn't screw up the texture's layout.

[redrob41]

Someone tell me that RedRob is still planning to release this.

Yes, I'm going to release this, but first, I'm trying to re-create the K1 mullet man head. So far, by manually moving the vertices around I've got the face looking almost exactly the same (eyes, nose, mouth, jawline, etc). I'm still working on the hair. Right now, it is more like the TSL PMHH01 hair than the K1 mullet. I doubt that I'll be able to pull off the pointy bits at the back of the neck without losing the smooth groups. I'll post pics later tonight. I haven't tested it in-game yet.

 

It seems that somebody already fixed this a while ago.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=194747

After reading the thread (I haven't downloaded or looked at the files themselves), it sounds like the tongue is now shorter at the back. Not a big deal (probably only noticeable in the yawn animation), so it sounds like a viable model.

 

The only problem with that head model, is that it can't use the default texture without some editing of the texture (Which they included)

 

[snip]

 

While it does fix the model, it screws up the the default texture layout, and it's noticeable. But it looks like RedRobs version doesn't screw up the texture's layout.

 

Since mine will only change the mdx file, the uvw map and texture layout will be unaffected.

[L0ki194]

Wait, you're trying to re-create the K1 Mullet Man? *Chuckles* Well that's funny... The whole reason I signed on here back in December of 2012 was to make a request for someone for remake the K1 Mullet Man for TSL. Also I believe Zez-Kai-El has the point bits of the mullet man's hair you're looking for. Maybe there's some way to mesh that part of the model with the one you're working on?

[Super Saiyan 4 Revan]

Thanks for the quick reply RedRob,

[redrob41]

Wait, you're trying to re-create the K1 Mullet Man? *Chuckles* Well that's funny... The whole reason I signed on here back in December of 2012 was to make a request for someone for remake the K1 Mullet Man for TSL. Also I believe Zez-Kai-El has the point bits of the mullet man's hair you're looking for. Maybe there's some way to mesh that part of the model with the one you're working on?

 

Yeah, I could certainly use Zez's hair to merge into the new model, but then when it's exported, it will lose all the smooth group info. It would result in his jaw line having hard edges (like in post #1, bottom pic). I'm still trying to see what I can do while preserving the smoothness (just moving verts around without adding new polys, Taina method). Here's what I've got so far:

Show spoiler

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It's getting there, but still needs some work (like the cheeks need to be narrowed a touch). The hair is still only approximate, but I'm guessing that it is the main part that people like about the ol' mullet head. I'll keep at it

[L0ki194]

Yeah, I could certainly use Zez's hair to merge into the new model, but then when it's exported, it will lose all the smooth group info. It would result in his jaw line having hard edges (like in post #1, bottom pic). I'm still trying to see what I can do while preserving the smoothness (just moving verts around without adding new polys, Taina method). Here's what I've got so far:

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

It's getting there, but still needs some work (like the cheeks need to be narrowed a touch). The hair is still only approximate, but I'm guessing that it is the main part that people like about the ol' mullet head. I'll keep at it

 

Well even though it's still a WIP, I think it looks good so far. Is the skin made by you? Also... could I use any K1 Mullet Man reskins for this? Or is that considered an act of "you know what"? Anyways good job RedRob... keep at it!

[DarthParametric]

The TSL PMHH01 and K1 PMHC04 are basically identical textures, aside from some minor tweaking of the TSL version to adjust the eyebrows and add some sideburns (and change the skin tone).

[L0ki194]

The TSL PMHH01 and K1 PMHC04 are basically identical textures, aside from some minor tweaking of the TSL version to adjust the eyebrows and add some sideburns (and change the skin tone).

 

They are very identical, true. There's also an added bit of hair above the face on PMHH01. I just hope that I can use K1 PMHC04 head re-textures for this without any noticeable errors. There's a few skins for example that have a beard added, changed the hair or eyes color, etc. Plus the actual K1 PMHC04 texture still technically exists in TSL... but it's much lower resolution, and is a small part of a texture for the Peragus kolto tanks.

 

The texture's called "PER_Kolto2"

[redrob41]

Well even though it's still a WIP, I think it looks good so far. Is the skin made by you?

I made the skin from TSL's PMHH01 texture (512x512), and color matched to the PER_Kolto2 (IIRC) texture. The kolto tank tga has three heads and a body texture on it. The face for mullet guy is on there, exactly the same as K1 (256x256), but at a smaller resolution (128x128). I've only used TSL assets for mine.

 

Also... could I use any K1 Mullet Man reskins for this? Or is that considered an act of "you know what"? Anyways good job RedRob... keep at it!

Yes it would be "you know what"

The TSL PMHH01 and K1 PMHC04 are basically identical textures, aside from some minor tweaking of the TSL version to adjust the eyebrows and add some sideburns (and change the skin tone).

There would be some mismatching with the hair along the forehead. The TSL head adds in some new hair areas to the texture (the front of the parted hair, and underneath the "flaps" along the temples), so the uvws don't match perfectly from K1 to TSL.

[L0ki194]

Ah, oh well. But I guess it's not too hard to sort of recreate some of the K1 reskins for TSL, like adding a beard, changing the color of the eyes, etc. I'll have to show which ones I'm talking about. But at a later time. Anyways hope to see some more screenies of the head!

[Super Saiyan 4 Revan]

Just wondering how progress is going on this, cause it's looking good so far

[redrob41]

Hi everyone. Yes, I am still working on this. Between mega projects at work, and major yardwork at home, I've been a little too busy for my hobbies. I'm way behind on comic reading (up to a year on some titles), tv watching, and video game playing (still haven't finished The Last of Us) . What little free time I have has been spent with my wife (top priority).

 

I have managed to fix 5 or 6 head models that had bone weight clipping problems, but there's been just as many heads that I couldn't fix. Win some lose some . The big news is that last night I had success with getting a Mullet Man head into the game. Not just the close approximation that I'd already posted screenshots for, but one that uses ZezKaiEll's pointy hair danglymeshes, and PMHC04's (beardy guy) danglymesh bangs. This model will unfortunately not have smooth groups, so there will be hard edges along the jaw and hair lines.

 

I was too tired to make screenshots, but I'll post something soon

Edit: Here are the results, and where you can download Twin Mullet Men

[Super Saiyan 4 Revan]

I'm curious, when you hex edited your version of PMHH01 on the clipping, did you manage to fix the eyes in the prologue?