It's official! Quake 4 by...

[Roger]

RAVEN!!!

 

Man they must be busy up there in Wisconsin...

 

Wooohoooo!

 

Read THIS for more info...

[Guest digl]

I hope they are not too busy, that would be bad for Outcast

[Mafia_Jabba]

OMG GIve me a brake man...the game is fricking dead...I can't believe that they're actually doing this..there is no point!

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Seems like the company to be at these days for FPSes.

 

Perhaps now we can expect Q4 to be more then just a great engine with weak vanilla gameplay.

[acdcfanbill]

when quake came out, i laughed, because i still like doom better... not for the graphics of couse, but i mean, the storyline, and even some of the guns in quake were well, almost laughable... it was a good game, sure, but i never thought it was what some people made it out to be...

[Guest Jeff Walters]

OMG GIve me a brake man...the game is fricking dead...I can't believe that they're actually doing this..there is no point!

 

Aye I know....kinda feel the same about the Doom and Wolfenstein sequels. I personally feel it's time to move on...none of those franchises are particularly interesting IMO.

 

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Walters ]

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Look at how many sequels you see out on a market. When companies aren't willing to take chances, that's what you get.

 

Should I really be complaining though? This game is essentially third in the Dark Forces series... Close call. Over all I think I would rather see new ideas being developed by the time the 4th incarnation rolls around.

 

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]

[Red_XIIII]

bah wish quake would jus die, none of the orginals were that fun, jus graphic engine showcases.

[Darth Lunatic1587246489]

Yeah so do i. At least the Doom games were memorable. I never really liked quake. Quake 2 was the most decent of them all. It had half a story.

[acdcfanbill]

i dunno, im interested in the new wolfenstien game... this will be what, the third?!?! i dont remimber.... but wwii interests me anyway...

[Darth Simpson]

I was really into Quake and Quake 2 back when they were still popular. Then UT came along and I lost interest.

 

Still, it will be interesting to see how this game turns out. I just hope Raven is big enough to develop two titles at once without neglecting either one.

[OnlyOneCanoli]

I will reserve my final judgement of Q4 until I

 

a)See many reviews of the same opinion

b)Play the demo or

c)Play the full version.

 

Who the hell are you guys to just say a game will suck when it was just announced? What if the game has gameplay that changes the industry and/or genre, or multiplayer replay value to rival Half-Life's? I do agree that these sequels are annoying to some extent, and I would prefer something original, but for [whatever's] sake, give the game a chance. With the shaky economy as it is right now, can you blame them?! Just the other day, we got word that Dynamix is fux0red. And anyway, we are at this forum for Jedi Knight 2 or DF3 if you want. Raven is the best group to do it right now, anyway.

 

The only real reasons why I could be upset by this announcement is if it makes JK2 a crummy game or if Raven does Doom.

 

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: OnlyOneCanoli ]

[access_flux]

uh uh uh ... not cool! this is just going a little too far, i wouldn't have made a fourth one...

[Wilhuf]

Kind of like how George went too far when he made the fourth installment of the Star Wars films.

[OnlyOneCanoli]

Hey the fifth will be good.

 

 

Or not.

[acdcfanbill]

hopefully the fifth (umm, not alcohol) will be better...

 

as for sequals being popular, it seems like all we see are sequals lately, games, movies... i just hope many of these are a good as the originals...

[StormHammer]

Well, according to a recent interview, Raven has three teams working on three projects - and they intend to keep it that way in the future. They are not going to try and over-extend themselves like some developers - and they employ more people than some of you may think. I think they also said they are going to concentrate on making games using Id's engines, which is fine by me because they've always pushed the boundaries of Id's tech.

 

As far as sequels go, it's a cut-throat PC games market, and publishers are increasingly reluctant to invest time, money and effort in games that stray too far from familiar territory. If a game sells, the odds are good that a sequel will sell just as well. Remember that not all good games sell well - Undying is a good example. So, because some of the key publishers are reluctant to take some risks, the developers are often pushed into making sequels, or attaching themselves to well-known franchises.

 

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this. If a developer can make a sequel type game alongside something more original, refreshing and more risky, then I think that's a smart move.

 

As for sequels getting tired, old, stale, etc, I don't think that has to happen as long as the engine technology continues to evolve, and as long as they introduce something new and fresh into the old mix. Improving on storylines, characters, design and engine tech can only lead to a better gaming experience, no matter what the title of the game is. The only real test of a game is in the gameplay.

 

So, when I read the announcement for Quake IV, and a return to Stroggos, I didn't groan out loud and shake my head in dismay. Instead I thought - Raven can take this in a new direction, with a much stronger story, and build a great game out of Id's tech.

 

Although I enjoyed playing Quake II, there were some things that annoyed me about the game - like too many similar grunts, the movement/speed seemed wrong, it could have done without power-ups, not enough secret areas, AI was too weak, enemies died too easily - I could go on, but I won't bore you.

 

So I would like to see how Raven - a developer that seems to seriously listen to what the gaming community wants - will approach this sequel.

 

And lastly, I hope that when they've finished SOF2 and JK2 they will seriously consider...yes, another sequel. Personally, I would like to see a Heretic 3.

[Guest Kurgan]

Well sequels are always a tough thing to do well.

 

You have the expectations of a hit riding on the new game, to meet or exceed the standards of the first.

 

Often I see sequels as just being slightly improved rehashes (more like patches or mission packs than true sequels) of the first game.

 

I didn't really like Quake1 at all. I actually played through all of Quake2, but I did it more to say I did it, it got old fast. Quake3 was more fun for me, but then it was just all the same old run and gun, just with flashier graphics and louder effects.

 

Some series's I wouldn't mind the developers quit while they're ahead, but I guess it's just easier not to take risks and sell products on name recognition.

 

When I get a new game I expect to see something new. Yes, there is a certain formula to link it to the previous game, but if it's just the same, I can go back and play the first one and save my 40 bucks.

 

I guess I can't really blame them, though.

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

[WD_ToRMeNt]

I just hope that Raven isn't spreading themselves out to thin. I know we all want JK2 to be #1 on thier to do list. If JK2 MP sucks though, I'll prolly play Q4 instead.

[GEJoeSolo]

games like doom and wolfenstine will always be grate because of what they did for FPS's. and they were the last FPS's to have a good story line (untill JK came out). Quake on the other hand was just a eye candy game that got way out of hand. that's why I'm looking forward to return to castle wolfenstine just as much as JK2, they are awsome games with a goos story line for the player to follow, so I know why I'm killin all those guys.

 

also I'd like to see something about Duke Nukem Forever and the new Doom. are thies games dead in the water?

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Quake doesn't need a story. It's not a story game, it's a game made with the idea of competitve play online.

[GEJoeSolo]

for game that was only made with the idea of playing it online, it's should be a hell of a lot better than it is.

[StormHammer]

I'm quite fond of the original Quake, but then I've never really viewed it as anything more than a straight-forward shooter. It did introduce us to fully 3D environments, and had some great monster designs and atmosphere. The story was rubbish, as was the ending.

 

I got Quake II and Jedi Knight around the same time - and guess which one I played the most. It's not that Quake II was a bad game, but there were some things I disliked, which I'll outline below.

 

As for Quake 3, well, I tried the demo. I preferred Unreal Tournament, so I got that game instead.

 

Now we have Quake IV in the pipeline.

 

Okay, so it's Stroggos again, is it? Well, what happened on the last outing to this biomechanical nightmare world?

 

In order to look at what I would like to see in Quake IV, I think I need to look at some of the issues of Quake II that I did not like. Although I enjoyed playing QII, it seemed to lack something. Some of the things I disliked include...

 

1. Storyline.

 

I was heavily disappointed with Quake II's storyline. After reading the book and seeing the film of Starship Troopers, QII seemed to show some disturbing parallels, especially in the opening sequence. It seemed to lack originality, and the spiel intended to fire you up just came across to me as a lot of gung-ho macho nonsense. It didn't seem realistic, and therefore did not help me to *suspend my disbelief*, which of course is an important element of any game.

 

The best openings I've seen to an FPS game were in Unreal and Half-Life. Both gradually built up the tension before plunging you into some heated battles, and had some nice scripted events to build some atmosphere. They basically immersed you in the game world before asking you to start blasting everything in sight. So I think some scripted sequences early on are very important in laying the foundations of what is to come later in the game.

 

Perhaps doing away with the introductory FMV's and actually placing the player in the opening sequence in real time would be much better. I mean, how cool would it have been if Quake II had opened with you standing to attention, watching your Commander deliver the speech (naff as it was), and then running to your capsule, along with the rest of your team, getting in, punching a button - waiting for the launch, and then looking out the viewport as the capsule shudders around you in real-time before you land with a Godawful bang? That would have been a much better start to the game, and more exciting, IMHO.

 

2. Engine

 

In QII, I found there were some small issues regarding movement within the game world, and clearance around some obstacles. It did not flow like Quake. I also noticed it in the demo of Quake 3 Arena I played. Very little is known of the new Doom engine, but I hope they can manage to tweak the movement and get that flow back into the mix.

 

3. Monsters

 

In the previous outing, there did not seem to be quite enough Stroggs to smack down, considering we were assaulting their homeworld. I expected a lot more monsters throughout the levels.

 

I also did not like the similarity between the grunts - one with a pulse gun, one with a shotgun, one with a machine gun, and then the big chunky guy with a slightly faster machine gun. I thought there could have been a better variety of monsters for intitial encounters from the very beginning of the game.

 

I mean, if you take Unreal, your initial encounters are a rabbit, a Brute firing rockets, a weird creature hanging from the ceiling firing spikes at you and the Nali.

 

In Half-Life you get head-crabs, zombies and multi-eyed bull-dogs.

 

I'll also give credit to Daikatana for originality - robot frogs, skeets, alligators and auto-gun emplacements were a refreshing change for initial enemy encounters.

 

I would therefore like to see a wider variety of monsters in the initial encounters of Quake IV.

 

I did like a number of the monster designs in Quake II. The Parasite, the Berserker, the Gladiator, the Brains, the Technicians and the Flyers were my favourites. The Tanks were worthy opponents - but I preferred the big tracked version, of which there was only one which could not move about freely enough.

 

I felt the other opponents were just too humanoid, and too similar to each other.

 

Some of the enemy were too easy to kill, IMO. Either the weapons were too powerful, or the enemies were not powerful enough. I think that if an enemy is going to be relatively easy to kill, then some compensation should be made by making it much faster and harder to hit.

 

Many of QII's enemies suffered from a distinct lack of speed, both in their movement and responses to attack - including the flying ones, which just seemed to hover most of the time. Some were very easy targets, and also proved to be the weakest.

 

I would like to see some advanced AI for the monsters in Quake IV. Weaker opponents should dodge faster, use cover, and attack in groups as they try to outflank you.

 

Tougher opponents could be slightly slower, better armed/armoured, and try to keep you occupied while reinforcements arrive.

 

If the right variety of monsters with different abilities can attack from several directions, it would certainly keep you on your toes. I like that aspect of Serious Sam. There is certainly room for spawning in some extra monsters (for a limited time) if the alarm is raised.

 

4. Weapons

 

I hope there will be some steps away from the overly familiar line-up of *traditional* FPS weapons. The line-up of handgun, shotgun, machine-gun, Uber-machine-gun and rocket launcher is just so old.

 

Half-Life managed to take a few steps in the right direction by adding some variety, but the best variety of balanced weapons I've seen so far in a game is in Unreal Tournament.

 

Yes, you start off with a pistol, and there are machine guns and rocket launchers...but there are also Shock Rifles, Rippers, Plasma Rifles, Bio-Rifles and Flak Canons. And every single one of them has a secondary fire mode. The Shock Rifle has a combo-attack too.

 

IMHO, Quake IV simply must implement a secondary fire mode (it's long overdue), and drastically improve the variety of weapons in the arsenal.

 

In addition, the more *traditional* weapons (which I know have to be included to keep die-hard Quakers happy ), really need to be overhauled. I mean, I almost laughed when I picked up a sub-machine gun in Quake II. Even some of todays real weapons look better (and sound better) than that. Quake 3 Arena showed some attempts at redesign, but there were not to my personal taste.

 

In terms of Quake II's weapons...

 

1. The Blaster - was okay, but not as SF-ish as Unreal's effort.

2. The Shotgun - was, well, a shotgun. It didn't roar like the one in Doom though, more's the pity.

3. The Super Shotgun boomed - but it was much too powerful. Up close it destroyed most of the opponents with a couple of blasts. Ditch it and make the ordinary Shotgun meatier - if it has to be in there at all. I'd much rather see something akin to a Flak Canon as a riot gun, though.

4. The Machine Gun - was totally out of place.

5. The Chain Gun - was pointless in light of the Hyper Blaster.

6. The Hand Grenade - no.

7. The Grenade Launcher - I liked the original in Quake better. Of course, the one in the film Aliens was better still.

8. The Rocket Launcher - hmmm. Zzzzzz.

The Hyper Blaster - I really liked this weapon. The spin-up, the sound, the look was just right. Except it was too damned powerful in tandem with Quad damage!!!

9. The Rail Gun - again, a very nice weapon ( so Eraser-ish ). It would make a lovely sniper rifle with a sight.

10. The BFG - ditch it - I didn't even use it in Quake II, because there simply were not enough enemies in a room at one time to warrant it's use.

 

5. The Inventory

 

An inventory was introduced in QII, which was largely a good idea. Except they included the power-ups as part of the inventory, which meant you could use them any time. This made the game easier than it should have been (on the most difficult setting).

 

For example, I annihilated the Strogg boss at the end in 30 seconds flat using a fully-charged hyperblaster with one quad damage enabled. End of boss, end of game - and great disappointment. I expected a massive showdown, with lots of running in panic, and running out of ammo - instead I got a short, bitter megakill. I had to force myself to replay it without using any powerups OR the hyperblaster. But it was still in the back of my mind - and as you can see I've never forgotten it.

 

Personally, I would not miss any of the power-ups like quad damage or invincibility. I mostly kept forgetting to use them anyway, and there were only a few occasions during QII when their use was warranted, IMO. When I did use them, it was just too easy to smack down the toughest enemies, so for me they spoiled rather than enhanced the game.

 

Things like scuba gear would be good to keep - if there are some extensive underwater areas to explore. I managed to swim through most of the water areas without the gear just by coming up for air - there were only a few really enclosed tunnels, or areas that needed exploration, under water.

 

Some infra red goggles or equivalent would be nice - and maybe a gas mask for areas with toxic gas. A pair of binoculars or equivalent (such as a sniper sight) would be nice to survey some areas from a distance.

 

Smoke grenades might be a worthwhile addition - along with some EMP gear to knock out some of the Strogg tech.

 

6. Environments

 

I liked the city-type structure of QII. The levels were well designed.

 

However, I sometimes felt like I was simply in a labyrinth of monsters, because the structure of some of the levels did not really make much sense if brutally scrutinised with an eye for realism. Many other FPS's suffer from the same thing - you end up with a maze of rooms and corridors, which seem to have no cohesive overall plan.

 

Okay, sure, in QII Stroggos is a military world with biomechanical creations. You have warehouses, laboratories, command centres, and all of that is what you would expect. But don' t those creations at least need to rest, consume nutrients, spend time offline somewhere. Where are those areas? Where do the raw materials come from, if not from extensive mines? And if there are production plants churning out new Stroggs, where are those Stroggs held - or do they just start work as soon as they are built?

 

Where are the Mining Stroggs and the Construction Stroggs?

 

I like Secrets in levels, too, but I felt there were not quite enough of them in QII. Some of the secrets also did not make a great deal of sense. I mean, in Quake it was all very well finding a secret area with Quad Damage in it - because there was no real cohesive plan to Quake. In a way, it was a bit surreal - and a hangover from Doom.

 

In QII, however, you have this Strogg world, with biomechanical creations. Why, then, is there a need for a secret area with a Quad Damage power-up? I can understand weapon/ammo caches, maybe even some medikits for some quick repair work on some damaged Stroggs - but not armour or power-ups. The *human* equipment, in a sense, should all have arrived with the humans - because the Stroggs have no need of it.

 

I think the Secrets need to be planned well. A game where some of the secret areas at least made some kind of sense was Dark Forces. In the very first level you have a hidden part of the Imperial base to uncover. I think the same should be true of Quake IV. Make the secret areas into larger areas, such as a secret weapons development section where you can pick up a new-fangled Strogg weapon (such as the secret level with the Super Shotgun), or locked weapon/ammo/medikit rooms that you have to enter by other means. There could also be caved-in areas of mines with rusted equipment in them. I just think the secret areas and levels need to make a bit more sense than finding a shotgun behind a crack in the wall, or a power-up in the middle of nowhere.

 

7. Game Ending

 

Following on from the power-up scenario in (5) above, I think finding an appropriate ending to an FPS game is a problem seen time and time again. The journey through the game is great - but then it is wrecked by a bad ending.

 

Let's face it, even the showdown against the Spidermind in Doom wasn't that great - it certainly didn't invoke the same atmosphere as facing the Cyberdemon for the first time, which had a great build-up. Doom II's ending was worse. Quake...well, let's just say I shook my head at the end. And I've already indicated my disappointment with QII's ending. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Id's games. I'm a long-time fan since Wolfenstein, and there are loads of other examples from other developers.

 

I thought Half-Life's ending was rubbish, for example, and spoiled the rest of the game. They should have ended the game after killing that giant Spider-thing, which was far more interesting than a giant floating baby with a splitting head.

 

I've yet to complete some of my recently purchased games (NOLF, Rune, Severance, Serious Sam), but so far the only games that I felt achieved some really great show-downs are some of the older games - like Wolfenstein, Hexen and Jedi Knight.

 

I hope that the guys making the game will sit down and think really seriously about giving us a great ending to QIV. Even a straightforward big pitched battle like a game of cat and mouse would be better than these half-puzzle type endings to kill the Boss (as in Doom II, Quake, Half-Life). Of course, in the favour of many of these games, they have the wind-down at the end, after the big boss is defeated, and I think that should stay. Half-Life offered Freeman a choice, QII made you rush to escape the exploding station to survive etc.

 

Who knows how QIV will end. If it will ever end...?

 

I just hope they can take a completely new slant on Quake IV, and introduce a solid, original storyline, increase the diversity between the monster designs, improve the movement and physics, and definitely work at improving on the AI of the enemies.

 

I think all of this is possible, both based on Raven's past efforts, and on the technology they are implementing now.

 

Perhaps Quake IV can break the mould, and bring something new to our computer screens.