Vagabond Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 StephenG ...Kyle isn't a full Jedi and i dont think he should beable to sence badguys that are soo far away from him. that why i said the Rogue Squ radar thing was a great idea... There are a couple problems with this statement. The most important being that Kyle, through the previous Jedi Knight games, has already demonstrated the ability to see life forces on the entire map, so limiting his ability here introduce consistency problems. The second problem is that, in my opinion, it just doesn't make sense. The third is that without any frame of reference (the map), the little "blips" on the "radar" mean nothing - range or location of targets cannot be determined. Were the game to actually have an overhead map and Force See, one compromise might be to increase the range of Force See as one became more powerful in that ability. But again, the discussion is academic since it appears as though there will be no Force See. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 It is somewhat academic at this point, if we are to take Raven's comments such as 'Q3 technology cannot project an overhead map on-screen' at face value. Probably it is much more difficult to generalize and project Q3's brush geometry onto an overhead map than it was with Jedi Knight's surface geometry. I used force seeing most of the time in multiplay JK/MotS, enjoyed it a lot and will miss it in Jedi Outcast. It did add a fun dimension to gameplay. Nothing could escape the Jedi's sight. However, Jedi Knight force seeing, which revealed the location of enemies in multiplayer, diminished (or even completely eliminated) the opportunities for staging an ambush. You could easily discern your opponent's strategy by watching where he would go on the overhead map. It was very difficult to be surprised by an attack in Jedi Knight. Although that was part of the fun. We've said this many times through the history of this board. So, while the loss of Force Seeing is a disappointment, on the positive side, Jedi Outcast's elimination of seeing will allow for ambush. As I've said earlier, we'll have to rely on hearing as well as seeing to track our target. Outcast gameplay will be different. This is welcome news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 what about bucky's idea except u get different colours deoending on how far they are away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 What I'm afraid of, Wilhuf, is that JKII multiplay will lose much of the specialness that set it apart from other FPS games. True, it will have Force powers and the lightsaber, but the loss of Force See is exceedingly significant. Non-Jedi should not be able to cloak themselves from Force See. Jedi, on the other hand, should be able to. One's strength in Force See could be pitted against a target's ability in, let's call it Force Cloak, introducing a fun little bit of role playing. The apparent loss of Force See and the overhead map reduces my expectations of JKII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 Originally posted by Wilhuf So, while the loss of Force Seeing is a disappointment, on the positive side, Jedi Outcast's elimination of seeing will allow for ambush. As I've said earlier, we'll have to rely on hearing as well as seeing to track our target. Outcast gameplay will be different. This is welcome news. Originally posted by Vagabond What I'm afraid of, Wilhuf, is that JKII multiplay will lose much of the specialness that set it apart from other FPS games. True, it will have Force powers and the lightsaber, but the loss of Force See is exceedingly significant. I think you both make fair points, and it could probably go either way. The omission of Force Seeing and the automap feature could prove to make Jedi Outcast "just another FPS" (except with a saber) or it could well prove to alter the dynamic in a positive way, such as Wilhuf has outlined. Personally I'm going to wait to see how the game plays before making a judgement. I have to concede one thing, though. You never know quite how much you'll miss a feature you're used to having until you've had to do without it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 I have to concede one thing, though. You never know quite how much you'll miss a feature you're used to having until you've had to do without it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. agreed. Who knows. maybe Raven have something up there sleeve that we don't even know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancor Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 I've played a whole lot of games in my time and the lack of auto-mapping does not really bother me for this kind of game. I could see it being useful in an adventure game with a hub type system, where you spend a fair amount of time going back and forth between different areas.....but I haven't heard anything about JK2 being such a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 As Vagabond has pointed out at least once, the issue is not one of navigating round the maps, it's the extra dimension of strategy which the Force Seeing and automap combination lends to gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 exactly no one here cares about the lack of map in SP we are talking about MP and the map+seeing combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 1, 2002 Share Posted January 1, 2002 Thanks ed_silvergun and digl. I was just about to re-clarify about wanting the automap for use with Force See, not as a navigational tool, but I see you've already done that for me. Thanks, guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 I dont know If this has been told im magazines or previews. I think not, at least Its not mentioned as a confirmed power in the official page There will be force sight Apparently Itll work in an interesting way, I dont know how tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Originally posted by digl I dont know If this has been told im magazines or previews. I think not, at least Its not mentioned as a confirmed power in the official page There will be force sight Apparently Itll work in an interesting way, I dont know how tho wel just have to wait and see. i'm thinking it be like that seeing power in MotS which was like spec. mode in CS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SWS]Strider Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 What if force sight allowed you to view through other weaker beings bodies? Kinda like spectator mode on most FPS where you can view all thier movments. Strider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonkH8er Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 you read my mind strider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 *Emperor's Throne Room Theme* Good, good! *cackles* So there will be Force Sight? I can feel the anticipation swelling within you. LucasArts was wise to hide this from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowbieOne Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Although I may be mistaken, I don't remeber a Force Seeing being in the expaneded universe. I have always thought of Force Seeing as more of a Force Sense. Hear me out. Numerous times, especially in the Thrawn Trilogy, Luke uses the Force to stretch out his feelings and sense if there is danger near. He couldn't see through wall or anything, but he could tell if something was amiss and he could tell which direction it was and how far. For some reason this is more believeable for me than being able to just "turn on" Force Seeing. I'm not denying the fact that there is a Force Seeing at all or that it wouldn't be cool. Even though it wouldn't matter what we said because the game is now in beta and the Force powers are probably already imbedded in stone, I have a theory on how I think Force Sense would work well. Rather than being a "visual" Force power where you trigger a switch in your mind or whatever, perhaps and auditory method would be more realistic not to metion more intense. For example, you turn it on and you can hear a heartbeat or something of that manner. If the danger is far, the heartbeat would be faint,and heavier if danger was nearer. Also the heartbeat would come in more clearly if you were facing the direction of the danger, rather than the opposite direction. True, this way could turn out to be not as cool as I thought, but I know I would have more fun using it this way as opposed to the old Force Sight. However, if they decide to put a Force Persuasion in the game(I'm really hope they don't), then the old Force Seeing will almost definately be necesary as a counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Well, the only way I see for implementing a Force Sense power us by using the top secret IEEE 86123 technology, UNB 7.0, Universal Neural Bus. So, we all just plug one end our handy IEEE 86123 UNB 7.0 cable into our computer, and the other end into our skull. Only then will we truly experience Force Sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_silvergun Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Originally posted by digl There will be force sight Apparently Itll work in an interesting way, I dont know how tho Without wishing to sound like a Doubting Thomas, do you have a source for this? Or are you doing a GonkH8er on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Rather than being a "visual" Force power where you trigger a switch in your mind or whatever, perhaps and auditory method would be more realistic not to metion more intense. For example, you turn it on and you can hear a heartbeat or something of that manner. If the danger is far, the heartbeat would be faint,and heavier if danger was nearer. Also the heartbeat would come in more clearly if you were facing the direction of the danger, rather than the opposite direction.How about going a little bit further? In the movies they use telepathy here and there, so why not also in JK2: as a faint echo, you hear Stormtrooper who wants to get some sleep after standing in his post too many hours or perhaps someone is wondering, why his gun is not working properly(at the same time these are little tidbits for you). It also occurred to me that perhaps this would be cool as a scripted event(and not as a real Force power that you can use anytime you want) much like conversations in NOLF and AvsP 2; in MotS also Mara sensed people near her while in The New Republic ship level, but this time you could really hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeJJa Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Force seeing + map overlay in the original jedi knight was mainly used to see when items respawned. Seeing other players only requires 1 star, while most every good player used 4 stars on all neutral powers. the fourth star is the one that enables you to see items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeJJa Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 also, as far as an 'auditory' force seeing, in the original jedi knight, the enemies in SP made enough noise to where you would only have to pause for a second to hear the stormtroopers radio or the droids errrrr droid noises. In multiplayer, whenever a player had either force seeing, speed, and various light-side powers activated, you could hear them from a mile away ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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