New info. on JK2: JO!

[Renzo]

A very good point, Vag. I still have a problem, though. there must be some difference between a lightsaber and a blaster shot. maybe the only difference is speed. i'm not sure.

 

Speaking of speed. As to force speed (FS), i agree that enemies slowing down will of course not look fast, but i do like the new implementation because i'll be able to utilize FS in a better manner than just running quickly. all movements will now be 'faster'. combat will be easier. and chopping down an enemy jedi will be cake.

 

some people voiced a concern as to whether or not they'll be able to do amazing jumps using speed/jump. if raven just makes kyle jump farther when in FS, it will all fit together. if to the stormtroopers, kyle looks to move extremely fast, shouldn't he be able to jump farther than a bus? it may look strange to the player, but it makes sense.

 

please feel free to argue. if you don't understand a word of what i just said, please ask for clarification. for some reason my syntax is funky today.

[ps2maddenman]

Vegabond, I see where you are going with this and your logic, but you are using a "triangle rule" which in most cases doesn't hold weight because you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

Example:

 

Paper beats rock

 

rock beats scissors

 

scissors beat paper.

 

It is a very basic example (crude....I know )of how different types of things can offset the balance, once again I agree with your logic, but armor and shields are two completely different things, also, if the lightsabers could penetrate shields then Obi-Wan and Qui Gon wouldn't have ran away from the destroyer droids, but they did, which logic tells us means that their lightsabers could not penetrate the shields, also when Luke cut the underbelly of the ATAT, we don't know that this was the "armor" of the ATAT, in fact we got the idea that the underbelly was weaker than the rest of the ATAT simply because Luke allowed the force to tell him where the "weak" spot on the ATAT is (a non armored achilles heel?), which was a small compartment............either way this is an endless debate, and I think we both agree to disagree. I believe in the Jedi's ability to "slow time" and you don't, fortunately Lucasarts and Raven agree with me and have put this in the game (which I think is going to rock.)

 

 

We both have points, but we will never really know unless this is addressed by George Lucas himself.

 

 

 

But to your credit the official site says that a lightsaber can cut through almost anything, except the blade of another lightsaber, so it is the canon that conflicts itself if anything.

 

[sullen]

Vagabond:

While I enjoy your arguments immensely, I would ask if you have considered one more possibility in your decision of force speed based on your extrapolation from the movie. Maybe the Jedi simply did not want to waste time “dealing” with the droidekas. I felt that the matter was not one of impossibility, indeed, choosing to see force speed in either way, the Jedi could have dispatched the droids. The point I am trying to make is that both views (force speed is or is not a temporal distortion) is not as relevant to what happens in the movie as would be, say, understanding the situation that the Qui-gon and Obi-wan were in.

 

Our views are subjective; we do not know what it is to be really fast or really slow without referencing these terms to someone else. I, however, try to see it in a certain light. In my math class, I can come up with the answers fairly quickly. It is just a matter of doing the steps in order, and the answer comes to me. There is, however, a girl who takes considerably long to reach the same answer as I do. Now, for her, she is moving at a “normal” speed, but for me, she is moving slow, for her, I am moving fast. I hope I have been lucid enough to explain the “other side” of the argument. I will not go into consistency in this post, because I feel that the two are separate, yet related issues. I simply have no opinion on the latter issue

 

Good day

[MercenaryI{aos]

First of all the force speed is EXACTLY the way I wanted it.

Second, no demo.

My brother's birthday is on April 7th and he will be getting JK2 for his birthday and I'm going to take advantage of that!

If it is delayed I'll have to buy myself I would, but might as well get it free! And I want to play it ASAP:D.

[Vagabond]

ps2maddenman, actually nowhere in my conclusion do any of the logical elements of the Implication become recursive. I present a sequential order of arguments, with the parent always being more powerful than the child, and nowhere do I ever argue that a child is more powerful than one of its ancestors. Therefore your "triangle rule" point is invalid.

 

Personally, I don't think that the distinction between a lightsaber penetrating shields or armor is significant. All a shield does is absorb energy. If the lightsaber generates more energy than the shield can absorb, then the shield will fail. Since a blast door can presumably hold off heavy blaster fire, and yet a lightsaber can turn a blast door to slag, the implication is that a lightsaber generates more than enough energy to overwhelm the relatively weak shields on a Destroyer Droid.

 

With regard your statement that:

 

...Luke allowed the force to tell him where the "weak" spot on the ATAT...

 

...that's a new one to me. Do you have any official sources of information to support this theory? In any event, I feel it's safe to assume that one would require a lightsaber to do what Luke did to that AT-AT. Otherwise Rebel Commandos would be doing exactly what Luke did anytime they encountered an AT-AT, which they clearly were not doing in The Empire Strikes Back. Therefore the argument that a lightsaber is stronger than AT-AT armor is still valid, in my assessment.

 

But you're right, we could argue this point until the cows come home. To be quite honest, George Lucas probably was more interested in moving the plot along, rather than considering any technical or logical reasons when he decided to have Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan flee the scene using Force Speed.

 

sullen, prior to the intervention of the Destroyer Droids, the objective of Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan was to gain access to the Viceroy and force him to settle the trade dispute with Naboo. It was only when they escaped into the hangar that they discovered the invasion force. That they did flee seems to imply that they could not defeat the Destroyer Droids with the abilities as their dispossal. If Force Speed had a temporal effect, then one could suppose that they would have been able to defeat the Destroyer Droids and continue with the pursuit of their original objective - to break through the blast doors and force the Trade Federation into a settlement with the Naboo.

 

Since George had them abandon their pursuit, one can infer all kinds of reasons why. What is clear is that they were no match, so they fled. Plus, as I said previously in this post, George most likely just wanted to move the plot along so he could get Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan down on the planet and hook them up with Jar-Jar, to the delight of millions

[Agen]

I don't want a demo if it keeps the game back.

[MercenaryI{aos]

I don't really care of the consistency from SP to Mp because most multiplayer force powers will not be in Sp (9 Mp specific powers).

 

For the whole JEDI/Armor/Shield thing I believe Qui- Gon and Obi-Wan where growing impatient or sensed reinforcements would come and overwhelm them...

I do believe that with force speed however they could easily defeat a Droideka.

Since Destroyers take thier shields down to move... the Jedi run wait for the droids to follow and double-back and slice when the droids are moving. They could get there and swing fast enough with force speed. There would probably be easier ways to defeat it though.

I think it would be hard to slash through the shield however because the Destroyers always seem to be grouped with at least one other droid. It would be difficult to slice through the shield, deflect DD's blasters and DD2's blasters

 

My two cents. I have some more in my pocket though!

[+Nimbus+]

I'm kinda excited about the multiplayer levels, which ones we get and the ones that will become popular and which ones not, but maybe all of them will. I'm looking forward to the Jedi Temple thing on Yavin IV it'd be cool for training if you're in a clan.

[bsbuckeye21]

Yikes, this has gotten kinda heated.

 

Oh well, all I care about is that the force speed implementation is exactly how I want it to be, and there's no way it's gonna change.

 

(Remember, gameplay > story/reason/whatever )

[sullen]

vagabond you seem to imply that because force speed is not a temporal effect, then the jedi are powerless to resist the droidekas. I fail to see the reasoning behind this point. I argue that either way the jedi are moving faster than the droidekas can aim, and are therefore unlikely to be hit by their blasters. I merely postulate that it was a waste of time to continue on their present course of action(gaining access to the bridge) and choose to move along.

 

I also fail to understand your reasoning behind the comparison of weapons/armor. You use a very well thought out, multi-tiered argument, and it would be sound if not for a fact that you bring up yourself.

 

George lucas.

 

Your reasoning is sound until you come up against the ideal that maybe Lucas did not reason out the variable such as you have. What I mean to say is that from an Analytical perspective, you’re right, armor and weapons can only get stronger as time develops but Lucas may not have thought of it that way. I am merely agreeing with your last statement. Who can know the mind of the great Lucas?

[NoodlyGod]

Now I'm once again worried. I really hope the sp speed dealy won't be like bullet time. Why? because my only reference for that effect is Max Payne. Payne was an excellent game and bullet time worked great for guns, but if you were to give Max a light saber, start him 10 feet from an enemy and turn on bullet time, it would take him 30 seconds to reach the enemy. My hope is that they'll keep you at normal speed and slow down everyone else, while adding some sort of cool effect simply for the "cool factor".

[Broode]

Sorry Vaga, I didn't mean to be inflammatory. I just really want SP and MP finally split up. You are entitled to your own opinion.

[Redwing]

Yes, that's what Force speed will be. Otherwise it wouldn't be "Force speed" it would be "Force slowmo" or "Force reflex".

[Naphtali]

It would be nice just to give him a quick burst for a couple of seconds