ThirdGenRX7 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 then everything will be nerfed so badly that lightsabers will basically be about as useful as running around trying to beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit. Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by ThirdGenRX7 Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them. Well, people somewhat abuses it by turning around and around when backstab appears. That's just unrealistic. Same goes to backsweep. In the original 1.02 patch, when you do DFA, the little TIP of the lightsaber can kill you on 1 hit..that's why Raven nerfed it... I hope Raven can do something about the backstab/backsweep in the next patch...something like you can't turn while doing it, so it's just one big complete circle, and probably make it blockable too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Since the developement tools and the source code have been released, I doubt new official "Patch" will ever be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by SaberPro Well, people somewhat abuses it by turning around and around when backstab appears. That's just unrealistic. Same goes to backsweep. In the original 1.02 patch, when you do DFA, the little TIP of the lightsaber can kill you on 1 hit..that's why Raven nerfed it... I hope Raven can do something about the backstab/backsweep in the next patch...something like you can't turn while doing it, so it's just one big complete circle, and probably make it blockable too "Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citanul Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by CapNColostomy "Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic". I have to disagree on that one. I know Star Wars is unrealistic but there's even a certain level of... um... what's the word? I guess reality. There's a certain level of reality even with Star Wars. If you throw a saber and bring it back with the force, that seems like it could happen in real life if the force really existed. But spinning at 230715908178934791 miles per hour after doing a backstab isn't. The person doing it isn't even moving their feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarteX Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I agree with Citanul! And I dont c y some ppl dont like the 1.03 patch. I know that assfighting is lame, but the fights in 1.02 look like n00b padawans fighting and not like those cool duels in the movies and except from the backstab move the fast stance is alot more useful in 1.03 then it is in 1.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdGenRX7 Posted June 23, 2002 Author Share Posted June 23, 2002 in sp when you do the backstab you are locked in place... i dunno if that's how it was in mp 1.02 though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 ... then there will be NO GAME LEFT. All we'll have is a movie. Think about it. I say to these folks: watch a movie. I'll play a game thanks! ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarek Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by ThirdGenRX7 then everything will be nerfed so badly that lightsabers will basically be about as useful as running around trying to beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit. Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them. This was said like 2 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal-Gon Gin Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Kaan Since the developement tools and the source code have been released, I doubt new official "Patch" will ever be made. That didn't stop id from patching Quake3. However, a few times (when they changed protocols drastically) it broke mod codes, which required modders to release new versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Trails Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 this is an old topic but ill be happy to comment on the neverending argument: 1. I think backstab is awesome i love it. i use it to kill about 70% of the time. i know it will be nerfed forcing me to stay with 1.03 All the special moves are cool. if all the people complaining get their way it will be like JK1 where everyone just ran back and forth pressing the strong attack button and thats how duels will commense. 2. Maybe they should change how the moves are executed like make a missed special leave you open to attack but not nerf it. that is how games are ruined. Im keeping a copy of 1.03 on my computer just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by Saber_Trails this is an old topic but ill be happy to comment on the neverending argument: 1. I think backstab is awesome i love it. i use it to kill about 70% of the time. Thanks, I'll keep your name in mind for instant-kick if you join our server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by QuietSith Thanks, I'll keep your name in mind for instant-kick if you join our server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-[MotU]-Lyger|=- Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Well i dont seem to mind the complainers, i just kill em and tell them "Quit whining like the littel b!tch you are" then if they keep whining ill just keep aiming to kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquallLeonhart Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 WHINERS SUCK, THEY MAKE THE GAME NOT FUN, END OF STORY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Originally posted by CapNColostomy "Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic". Unrealistic against the standard physics law. Yes I'm serious Can you twirl at 10,000 RPM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumonic Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Ok- the pull-backstab move is stupid. STUPID,STUPID,STUPID! The only way that I've found to counter it is to do it myself. It has ruined this game for me. Ill go play Urban Terror until Raven fixes this. Thank you and goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunatic Jedi Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I pity people who are lame enough to register on a forum to post a single whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil25 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 yesh the thing i hate is the assfighting... and to some extent the part where people run to you, spin 180 degrees, let you see their back, and kill you. even in a star wars game, that's pretty lame. but i like the BS when used in the right situation, like when someguy runs up from behind and tries to whack you. then u finish him in one move. that's provided you didn't plot anything. considering its power, i would actually love to see the yellow stance combo (i dunno whether it's called DFA or heavy stance one is) be improved. not until the tip kills, but this move is less used, and it no easier than a BS, yet does not kill beacuse the saber just sticks into the guy, the longer, the more damage. so if he reacts and runs out before 0 hp, he lives. otherwise i tested it does 100. ahh but i'm not complaining...i'm just saying.. The only thing i want changed is something to prevent backward walking freaks... and yes more complains (on other stuff) will lead to a screwed up game ah ah ah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Trails Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 hey everyone does it and you know ive changed my style of fighting now. i dont use backstab as often i usually keep my distance and wait for them to make a mistake instead while using absorb at all times for protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by SaberPro Unrealistic against the standard physics law. Yes I'm serious Can you twirl at 10,000 RPM? The laws of physics are completly ignored about every ten seconds in every Star Wars movie there is. Anytime I see someone discussing the laws of physics and Star Wars in the same sentence, I know I'm not listening to a serious person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power_ed Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Citanul But spinning at 230715908178934791 miles per hour after doing a backstab isn't. Rofl!! thats allotta Mph!! seriously though.. i agree completely.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercen4ry Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Woo, yet another "nerf backstab" thread. Here I go again: I make it a point to hate backstabbers in general, but at the moment I'm going to attempt to be neutral in this matter, and take it from both perspectives. Hopefully then I can put a bit of a healing salve on the wound to JK2 that is 1.03. Now then, let's start with the anti-backstabber frame of mind. This mindset stems from 2 little words - "nerf backstab," and carries on until said individual gets flamed, yelled at, or labeled as , because said individuals always complain about how often this move leads to their own demise or the deaths of others (I know I've cited this a few times in my posts). Bad approach. Instead, the problem they're trying to get across here four-fold: 1) It's not cinematic. Where in Episode 1, AotC, or the original Trilogy did you see anyone ANYONE running around backwards slashing at air in attempts to perform a "stab" on their opponent? Certainly, you can debate this fact until the cows come home, but as weak as the fact is, it's just not what our favorite silver-screen jedi would do. 2) But putting the movies aside, let's move on to fact 2: It looks stupid. Where in any FPS, sword-fighting simulator, or any game with a melee weapon have you seen someone face the other way, spam attack, and walk backwards until they miraculously score a hit? Could I try that in Q3, T2, MOHAA, JK1, Unreal, or any other conceivable game title? Nope, I'd be dead in three seconds flat. Or, throwing ALL references aside, just look at it. Look at me everyone, I'm a real jedi! I run backwards slashing air until I hit something and somehow get a kill. It's stupid, and everyone, even the folks that use it as a staple, know this. (Excuse the above taunt. I'm getting a little too engrossed in the role ) 3) It's not skillful. Once again, we could just sit on this board arguing about it like children for the next decade, but just ask yourself: Was pulling that guy and chopping off his head with that move really that hard? Come on, you know the answer - it wasn't, and don't you DARE try to lie to me. 4) When it all comes down to it, it's just one big spam fest. Do you honestly think Ravensoft or Lucas Arts really intended for all of their hard work on the guns, the other special moves, the saber mechanics (as screwed up as they may be in many peoples' opinions, including my own), the duels, and the force powers for ALL OF IT to take a back-seat to one combo? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the answer - they didn't. Wow that took a while, but I promised I would take both angles into account here, and as such, here are the arguments I have seen FOR the move. Forgive me backstabbers, but I'm also going to attack these arguments, because many of them are not particularly valid IMO. 1) It's a legit move. Lucas Arts intended it to be this powerful for a reason - to make sabering as powerful as it should be. Sorry, but that's false. If LA had wanted sabering to be THAT powerful, they would have upped the power of every special move, and instead, come 1.03 they nerfed the DFA. That's some fairly valid proof that their intentions were the opposite, however successful you personally believe it has been. The fact is obvious - the residual power from the backstab was due to an err in their judgement or at the hands of Raven. When they upped the blocked-attack ratio, it's fairly obvious that their aim was to please the "but saber fighting should last as long as the films!" folks (I'll leave the term "whiner" for any of you to fill in, if you so please), but the result backfired, and instead of us having long, cinematic duels we either have prolonged, special move contests or an abrupt end caused by a quick backstab/sweep/DFA. I really hate to put words in their mouths or to pretend that these facts are true, but just look at the trend of *nerfs* in 1.03. The fact is fairly obvious. 2) And I quote: hey everyone does it and you know ive changed my style of fighting now. Would you throw yourself off a cliff onto jagged rocks below because all the "cool" kids were doing it, or is this a form of the old "If you can't beat them, join them" mindset? No offense SaberTrails, but this is a horrible defense. Instead, try developing a little skill in the matter (I'm not implying that you do not have any, I'm saying this for the sake of my argument). I've found that, even with 3+ backstabbers playing on my favorite gun server, I can still win without a single backstab. However, this doesn't address the Saber-Only folks, and all I can say to them is: Beat the backstabber at his own game when dueling him, or show him that there are other legit moves that can get the job done just as well. Don't backstab innocent people, unless they're Padawans - it's liable to get you flamed, kicked, or worse, and it's just not worth it. Which leads up to our next point. 3) It's a legit move. Deal with it. I already addressed the former of these two statements, but the latter I must agree with in some respects - If you intend to play 1.03, yes, you will have to deal with it. However, you don't have to just "deal with it." There are plenty of mods out there aimed at fixing the game; try a few of these. I've found JK2 ++ to be a good one, but due to the emptiness of QS's server, I don't think enough people agree with me. Just try it - just because you're playing on a modded server doesn't mean you have no skill (I'll address HE later in this post), but instead it allows you to build skills in a different form of the game, and possibly return "fun" to your gaming, which is the whole aim of a VIDEO GAME in the first place. Or if you're entirely sick of any modded version of base, try Hydroball. It's a good break from the monotony of JK2 pubbing. Remember - no one is forcing you to play JK2 base; take action instead of just complaining here. (once again, you may fill in "whine" if you want. For the sake of my neutrality, I'm not going to say it) But anyway, let me address one person in particular, for myself. Ewok, read the above, and see what you can make of it, then read this. Certainly, you are entitled to bitch, moan, and relentlessly call people who don't wish to "just deal with it" newbies, but it doesn't make you right. Instead, you have become a whiner. What makes the difference between a whiner and a real person? I'll tell you. While whiners just sit on their hands and complain about a problem, real people offer solutions and at least try to cope with that which is ailing them. First and foremost, people who move on to mods instead of putting up with the flames of spammers are not whiners, nor are they newbies - they instead have found their method of coping with the problem, as they are entitled to do. Does it make me that much less of a JK2 player because, even though I can achieve up to 60 kills in a 20 minute game of base 1.03 without spam, I prefer playing on a mod at this point? Similarly, your favorite flame target, QuietSith, is not a whiner or newbie either, as he is doing his damnedest to give the JK2 community his solution to the 1.03 problem, just as the folks at WD (JK2 ++) are. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but all I'm doing is offering you advice - stop complaining that people should just live with 1.03 and like it. People are totally within their right to move on to what they believe to be better things, and trying to stop that is a suicidal tactic. In any event, I hope that lengthy post helps to address most of the sides of this problem. I'm positive I missed a few, but the point is this: Yes, you should deal with 1.03, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should PLAY 1.03. Take action, for ranting all over this board has about a slim or nill chance of reaching the ears of Raven or Lucas Arts. And most of all, do yourself a favor - learn the whole game, not just one move, as it cripples your knowledge of the game and limits your abilities. That way, should the unspeakable happen (and Raven / Lucas Arts release a new patch to nerf backstab), should you be caught fighting an assfighter yourself, or should you be on a server with attempts of winning, you will be fully equipped for the circumstances and will, for the most part, avoid flames and actually be proud of yourself when you emerge victorious. Merc out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercen4ry Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Oh, and one more thing - the spinning at x miles per hour is not legitimate - it's the cause of either a script (I know the command myself, but I'm not going to share it to avoid having more script kiddies than there already are ) or a stupid configuration, and it's not cinematic either. Certainly, jedi don't have to conform to the normal rules of physics in that sense, but have you ever seen or heard of a power called "force spin?" Please. The truth of "spinning" is it IS the exploit that is tacked on to an already bad move, making it infinitely more deadly while making it illegitimate (sp?). Don't try to con us with this crap - it shouldn't be in the game, and you know it. Merc out, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Wow, thanks Merc! And on that note, if you guys want to stay away from backstab, assfighting, exploit whores, be sure to find the nearest JK 2 ++ server near you. You can get on my server anytime - there's even a mailing list now. You can find any of JK 2 ++ via ASE with a filter: All Seeing Eye (ASE) - http://www.udpsoft.com/eye/ When you run ASE (All Seeing Eye) do the following: Filter - New Name JK 2 ++ (In the filter put the following): <--- don't put this in: 1 if servertype != "JK2" remove 2 if gamename ~== "JK2++" keep 3 remove Click on Normal Filter. Click OK. To use the filter: Right click on the "JK 2 ++" Filter on the very bottom under "My Filters", choose refresh, and you'll quickly find JK 2 ++ servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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