edlib Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 As an introduction to the ways of the occult the Harry Potter novels would be found to be seriously lacking. There is nothing in them about magic more harmful than you would find in a Star Wars movie. Now,.. you're not about to bad-mouth Star Wars around HERE,.. are you? Of course, just about every popular trend that I have witnessed in my lifetime that might even make even the slightest reference to magic or the supernatural has been equated to occult forces trying to corrupt the Christian values of American youth... including, but not limited to, most fantasy books and movies (I've heard about people that won't let thier kids watch Walt Disney's Fantasia!) rock and roll music (especially heavy metal,) games such as Dungeons & Dragons, and, of course, video-gaming. Since I, and most of the people my age I know, have been involved in at least one of these at some point, then I guess there's very little hope for the country. Unless, of course, that it's possible to be entertained by something without instantly making a lifestyle out of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by superthrawn Now we have Harry Potter. I don't have anything against getting kids to read, but doing so with books that openly promote witchcraft aren't the way to go about it. If we're going to have kids reading fantasy, have them read something decent, like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings (ok, after some paraphrasing) at least those are good Christian books! And yes, the Lord of the Rings is a Christian book series. It's entire theme promotes Christian principles So if a book promotes 'good and moral principles', its christian? Since when did Gandalf magic differ from harry potters? Technically, lotr's could then by that standard be a muslim/islam/jewish book series as well couldn't it? IF there is more to it then the whole good and moral principles thing making it 'christian' thats fine, but it always seemed to me to be a 'good vs. evil(tha does require sgood princilpes for the whle good part) fantasy book.............. Honestly not trying to flame you, I just DON'T GET IT, the way that I am seeing it you are saying that any movie with a car is a carm movie and promotes driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by superthrawn Now we have Harry Potter. I don't have anything against getting kids to read, but doing so with books that openly promote witchcraft aren't the way to go about it. If we're going to have kids reading fantasy, have them read something decent, like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings (ok, after some paraphrasing) at least those are good Christian books! I can't imagine corporal punishment being effectively reintegrated into today's schools. Too many kids have never been touched by their parents, something which I feel is wrong, so would never tolerate a teacher, someone they don't respect doing it. Are we back in the middle ages? Last time I checked believing in a little magic hasn't turned any child into a devil worshipper. The church hasn't condemned HP. As long as the kids know that it is fantasy and not reality. I see nothing wrong about it. It promotes the same values of Lotr, hell it is almost a copy of Lotr but for kids. Speaking of which LoTR is not a children's book series. If you look at it that series also promotes the smoking of weed. For some reason that doesn't sound very christian. Anything that gets kids to read is great. Finally there are no witches so it doesn't matter. Like I said before it is still there, in some states, and it can be reintergrated with the proper policies. Please clarify what you mean when you say "kids have never been touched by their parents" My parents never hit me, or threatened to hit me and I turned out much better then people who did get hit. The problem today is parents don't punish their children at all, don't spend time with them, don't care what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I got swatted across the rear with a wodden spoon when I was little, didn't phase me a bit. The spoon broke, in fact. About HP, anyone smart/old enough to read is smart/old enough to understand it's just fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 lets see, what did I get hit with, hands, kindling, belt, spoon......prooly some others, do I like, hold it against my parents? No, I deserved it mostly, I woulda hit me if I had done that crap......but you cant let other people hit your kids...thas just wrong, if someone smacked my kid I would bloody their goddamned face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tierce Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 i was hit with anything that my parents could get their hands on...shoes, brushes, belts, hands, tomato plants...hell...if they didnt do it, i would probally be more of an ass. I also agree with Zarg, it isnt other people's responsibility to discipline your kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Assassin hell...if they didnt do it, i would probally be more of an ass. yeah same here, its how I learned how respect works........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Your right Assassin, it isn't other people's job to discipline your kids. However, it's obvious that many parents do nothing to discipline their kids. Schools are supposed to teach respect (parents are supposed to be a big help in that), but that is impossible when your disrespectful the schools punishment is a joke. You need something more sever then detention. How many here can honestly say they have never had a the greatest urge to hit some brat of a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tierce Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Well..being beaten by a complete stranger will not bring about respect, in fact if i was even touched the wrong way by a teacher then i would defend myself. And yes...i have had the urge to deal out alot of pain to anyone who doesn't treat me with the same respect as i have treated them, but if everyone acted on their impulses then we would be no better than the apes we evolved from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by superthrawn Now we have Harry Potter. I don't have anything against getting kids to read, but doing so with books that openly promote witchcraft aren't the way to go about it. If we're going to have kids reading fantasy, have them read something decent, like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings (ok, after some paraphrasing) at least those are good Christian books! And yes, the Lord of the Rings is a Christian book series. It's entire theme promotes Christian principles, and the last time I stopped in my local Family Christian Store, they had it on sale. I was a bit surprised, but now that I've thought about it, I understand why. It's a long explanation, I don't want to go into it if nobody wants to hear it. I can't believe you've fallen for that idiocy. It completely defies intelligence. If you've read Harry Potter, then you know it's utterly harmless. It cannot promote witchcraft because the world in the books does not exist! Stop believing everything you hear. I'm glad that Tolkein was a Christian. Otherwise we'd have Lord of the Rings blacklisted as devil worshipping for no rational reason, just like Harry Potter. Originally posted by Admiral My parents never hit me, or threatened to hit me and I turned out much better then people who did get hit. The problem today is parents don't punish their children at all, don't spend time with them, don't care what they do. I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Tolkien promotes the smoking of weed I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tierce Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Not another anti-Harry Potter thing. Good gracious, it's getting a little inane now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Redwing I can't believe you've fallen for that idiocy. It completely defies intelligence. If you've read Harry Potter, then you know it's utterly harmless. It cannot promote witchcraft because the world in the books does not exist! Stop believing everything you hear. I think that the real issue is not whether or not Harry Potter promotes witchcraft, but whether or not it raises interest in it. And it does. Harry Potter's world may be imaginary, but witchcraft is not, and it is not something to fooled around with. That, I think, is the reason some people seem so nuts about it. Some of them are nuts, as with everything, but I think there is a valid concern here. People don't believe in the devil anymore. He's more a cartoon character now than anything else. And I'm not talking about athiests here, I'm talking about Christians. It's unbelievable now, the number of people who believe in God but deny the existance of evil, of Satan and demons. I think that is what some people are fighting against in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPilot Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 I think that the real issue is not whether or not Harry Potter promotes witchcraft, but whether or not it raises interest in it. And it does. Harry Potter's world may be imaginary, but witchcraft is not, and it is not something to fooled around with. Ok, I don't really want to get into the whole 'proof' thing again, but why do you think witchcraft is real and not fiction? The idea of witchcraft was invented because people in past centuries were too ignorant to understand the world around them. They had no comprehension of basic physics and chemistry so they gave it a label and chose to hate it. I don't know a single person who would believe in witchcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 burn the witches. Keyan, that is if you look at HP radically. I saw it as a nice little childrens story. People who are nuts well, they believe that LoTR is real, they believe if they wear a superman custom they can fly. There is no such thing as witchcraft, so it is just a fantasy. Explain it to kids and your done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 *Waits for Keyan to put up a 12 paragraph argument* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPilot Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Precisely what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Admiral Tolkien promotes the smoking of weed I say. I say its propaganda for midgets but thats just me... It does promote the usage of sharp metal objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPilot Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 So does this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 and makes having big hairy feet normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by MadPilot Ok, I don't really want to get into the whole 'proof' thing again, but why do you think witchcraft is real and not fiction? The idea of witchcraft was invented because people in past centuries were too ignorant to understand the world around them. They had no comprehension of basic physics and chemistry so they gave it a label and chose to hate it. I don't know a single person who would believe in witchcraft. It is of no particular importance what people think or do not think witchcraft is or does. What I fear is how the enemy of our souls uses it against us. Satan and his minions hate us and want us to share their misery for all eternity, and they punish and torture us even now to the best of their ability. Historically, there isn't much that invites demonic meddling more effectively than witchcraft and the like, sometimes even to the point of demonic possession. Just as you don't play with a loaded weapon, you don't play around with witchcraft. It's the perfect opportunity for the devil to gain a foothold on your soul. For the athiest, this obviously doesn't mean much to you. But for the Christian, there should be no doubt that what I have said is true. Ignoring it puts you in more danger than you probably realize. Don't fall in to the trap of believing in God, but not believing in Evil. I was going to post a twelve paragraph thing, but let's be honest - how many of you are going to take the time to read it? I spend time looking up good examples, typing up detailed explanations, and I don't think anybody ever reads through it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPilot Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Anyone who wants to take part in a debate like this is hopefully reading all of everyone's posts. I know I am. I now understand what you mean. Whether witchcraft is real or not, it's a one way ticket downstairs. Atheist or not, if there is such a thing as witchcraft I wouldn't be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Well, for sure it's real. That is not to say that the witches necessarily have the power to do everything they say they can. But there ARE groups of witches, and young people are increasingly interested in these groups. Now, let me just say that I am not stating a case against Harry Potter, here. I know very little about it. I have never read any of the books. In fact, I had never heard of Harry Potter until I began to see the ads for the movie (which I didn't see). So, I don't claim to be an expert on any of the specifics - I'm just guessing at the motives and attitudes of the people who think the film is wrong in some way. It will be interesting to see if superthrawn writes something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 I doubt anyone in HP's targer audience (grade school kids) would go buy a witchcraft book just beacause Harry rides a broom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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