Admiral Vostok Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Alright here is the evidence I've amassed: FACT 1: Obi-Wan knows who Sifo-Dyas is and therefore presumably what he looks like. Mace and Yoda also know who he is, and considering he was once a memeber of the High Council the undoubtedly also know what he looks like. Therefore Sifo-Dyas CANNOT be Sidious/Palpatine. If he was, don't you think the Jedi would say "Hey, didn't the Supreme Chancellor used to be a Jedi? I wonder why he changed his name and profession?" Similarly, Sifo-Dyas CANNOT be Count Dooku. They know what both men look like and don't seem to get them confused. "But," I hear you say, "what about if Count Dooku was once known as Sifo-Dyas but since leaving the order has become known as Count Dooku?" This brings us to fact 2... FACT 2: Obi-Wan (at least) believes Sifo-Dyas died over ten years ago. If Sifo-Dyas is believed dead, he CANNOT be Count Dooku, who is very much known to be alive. You might also at this point bring up Jango Fett's line "I was recruited by a man named Tyranus." Just because Jango was hired by Darth Tyranus doesn't mean it was also he who approached the Kaminoans. It could have been (and most likely was for the Kaminoans to take the request seriously) more than just one man. FACT 3: Although this "fact" is debatable, I strongly believe Sifo-Dyas will not be a new character whom we have not yet seen. That would render this whole debate worthless and it was obviously meant to be heavily debated by fans. Therefore, my prime suspect is DARTH MAUL. Here is other evidence to support my theory: - I've always wondered why they claimed Darth MAul's body-pattern was a tattoo and not his natural skin. Looking at the Jedi Shaak Ti in AOTC, it is evident that Aliens could have brilliant and complex patterns all over their body. Since Darth Maul is an Alien (as evidenced by his horns), why not just make the red and black his natural skin pattern? It would make more sense if the tattoos were a way to hide his features. That way the Jedi would not recognise him as Sifo-Dyas. - I believe Sifo-Dyas faked his death before TPM is set. This was because he had turned to the Dark Side under Darth Sidious. Faking his death allowed him to leave the order and not fall under suspition like Count Dooku. He then changed his name to the Sith name of Darth Maul, and was really killed by Qui-Gon Jinn. So, now you've gotten to the end of my essay, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Count Dooku "POSED" as Sifo-dyas to order the clones. He was not Sifo-Dyas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 This is very intresting but wrong. If you knew Darth Maul has been training as a Sith his entire life. The tattoos are not there to cover up his identity but he had them put on as a sign of his devotion to the Sith. Sifo Dyas was a real Jedi who spent his life as a Jedi and died a Jedi. Sifo Dyas was just a name that Sidiouse used. He just basically stole the Identity. That is why The Jedi council suspect nothing. The real Sifo Dyas died but Sidiouse just used the name to confuse the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 Valid points. Firstly, you must remember that what you think you know about Darth Maul's background has all been taken from EU, and can therefore not be used as evidence. As for Sidious posing as Sifo-Dyas, surely the Kaminoans would be able to recognise him as Palpatine. If you disagree, just let me say that this answer seems to easy and not terribly exciting. To be honest, it would be a bit of a let-down to find this was the case. Having said that, there is nothing really to discard it altogether, so it is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I think Dooku or maybe Sidious could have "posed" as Sifo-Dyas. Also the Kaminoans dont know how sifo D looks like or rather any of the Jedi. Why would they. I doubt the Jedi have ever visited Kamino. Even if they had you cant expect the Kaminoans to recognize every Jedi there is. When Obi-Wan visits Kamino, he easily poses as Sifo-Dyas's aprentice, without even trying. The Sifo-Dyas poser would have done so with ease as well. As Dexter said all the Kaminoans care about is money. If you have the cash then who cares what your name or title is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexcellent Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 i can't take credit for this, but someone in this forum brought up the idea that sifo-dias could be qui gon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I believe George Lucas himself said that Darth Maul was an example of a person who had trained to become a Sith Lord all his life, therefore he couldn't have been a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norin Radd Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Darth Maul was NEVER a Jedi Knight. He was trained as a Sith from the time he was a child. You do not have to be a fallen Jedi to be a Sith Lord, it just so happens that most Dark Lords of the Sith were Jedi who defected from the order. Maul, who was strong in the force was discovered by Sidious first. If he had been discovered by a Jedi, he might have served the side of Light, but this was not the case. Never did Maul serve the Light side of the Force. Sifo Dyas was killed(perhaps murdered) and then Dooku assumed his identity as a persona to order the clone army on Sidious' orders. Using a dead Jedi as an identity makes you virtually untraceable. As far as the Kaminoans recognizing Palpatine, Palpatine did not order the clones himself. Dooku his servile apprentice did this. Palpatine, being in the highly visible position that he is, would not risk travelling to Kamino himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 not to rain on anyone's parade....but why does it matter so much?? Who cares who ordered the clones...it isn't going to make a difference in the next movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 its possible dooku posted the order as sifo dyas but here comes another question: who erased kamino from the jedi database? (dooku?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Dooku would be the likely choice, since he could have done it shortly before leaving the order. As for whether Qui-gon order the clones or not, I think Obiwan would have been able to confirm this... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Dooku most likely erased kamino, as Yoda said that only a Jedi could have erased those files. Woah, are you serious Admiral Vos? I would have sworn you were joking...Darth Maul? Darth Maul was a weapon forged by the hateful energies of the dark side to ensure the victory of the Sith over the Jedi order. A creature of pure evil, Maul had no personality beyond his ultimate devotion to his master, Darth Sidious. His goal was singular -- to exact vengeance upon the Jedi for the decimation of the Sith ranks. That's his biography from starwars.com Not from the EU part, so.....it basically says that Darth Maul was never nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexcellent Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 does anyone know how long ago dooku left the jedi order? i always thought it was when he was younger, so i didnt think he had plans to erase kamino back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dooku left the order 10 years before the time of ep.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Does anybody know anything about the Lost Twenty other than they left the Jedi Order because of the the way they felt twords the Republic and how corrupt it was? And that Dooku was one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 There is a deleated scene were the Jedi temple librarian talks to Obi-Wan about the lost 20. Lets hope that scene makes it to the DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by MotionMan There is a deleated scene were the Jedi temple librarian talks to Obi-Wan about the lost 20. Lets hope that scene makes it to the DVD. Yes it will. It was mentioned by Ben Burtt at Gen Con as one of the scenes to be added to the DVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Firstly, this is not a question of who ordered the clones, it is a question of who Sifo-Dyas is. It is not all unlikely that Sifo-Dyas were a Jedi that turned to the dark side and became a sith lord. He faked his own death and changed his name into Darth Sidious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 If he faked his own death and now he is Sidious then the Jedi would recognize that palpatine is Sifo-dyas in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Precisely! You listen to motionman now....he knows what he's talkin about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by MotionMan If he faked his own death and now he is Sidious then the Jedi would recognize that palpatine is Sifo-dyas in a flash. Not really. See the original scene in Palpatine's office was more like this. *Yoda looking back with a suspicious glance at Chancellor Palpatine.* Yoda: 'Mhhh .... something familiar I sense ...' Palpatine: *Sweating* 'Master Yoda is it not time for your medication?' Yoda: 'Ah yes ... pills for health I must take.' *Yoda gobs down a few pills.* Palpatine thinking to self "Hehehe, I knew having my personal physician put the Jedi on memory erasing drugs claiming it was Prozac was a good idea. I think I'll have the dose upped just in case." But that's just stupid and silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by AgentSmith Not really. See the original scene in Palpatine's office was more like this. *Yoda looking back with a suspicious glance at Chancellor Palpatine.* Yoda: 'Mhhh .... something familiar I sense ...' Palpatine: *Sweating* 'Master Yoda is it not time for your medication?' Yoda: 'Ah yes ... pills for health I must take.' *Yoda gobs down a few pills.* Palpatine thinking to self "Hehehe, I knew having my personal physician put the Jedi on memory erasing drugs claiming it was Prozac was a good idea. I think I'll have the dose upped just in case." But that's just stupid and silly. LOL, but not as silly as thinking Palpatine and Sidious are 2 different people:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 I think that would be hard for Palpatine to be a Jedi and then be a Representitve for Naboo. Sidiouse was around before the Lost Twenty so that means it couldn't be him. A person with such a celebrity status such as Palpatine wouldn't of been able to try to be sneaky. He would get caught so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Add to that the fact that Naboo tend to find their representatives at a very young age... Palpatine was probably taught at the "youth legislative program", same as Amidala, and the people favored him enough that he could continue on in Naboo and galactic politics for the rest of his life. The Naboo believe that they should train their rulers from a young age, instilling in them ideals contrary to normal politics; it'd probably be very hard for an adult to just pop up and be elected a representative of Naboo. Of course, Palpatine would, more likely than not, also have been a Sith Apprentice by this time. Irony... Lucas loves the stuff Also, I'm not sure if I believe it or not, but the idea came to me the other day that maybe Palpatine convinced Anakin to erase Kamino. Yes, "only a Jedi could have erased those files," but Jedi is a term that can be applied, really, to anyone training in the Jedi Temple. A dangerous and disturbing pizzle, this is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 You know, that thought never occured to me, but it IS possible that anakin deleted the kamino file.....hmm I kind of like that theory.......hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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