A first look at ProMod 3.0

[zerowingzero]

I good gunner can take out a good force user, and the crouch option is still in effect for both gunners and force users, all this means is that it will be harder to be a one-man team in ctf, and that SOME teamwork is neccisary to play effectivly.

Now that force users can't jsut grab a repeater and turn on speed+range to get the flag carrier, their job is a lot harder. If you saw a jedi using speed, would you go "oh no i can't use speed so i'm doomed" or easaly use your flecette or tripmines to kill him? all level 4 weapons are harder to block and or are more powerfull, so gunners CAN hold their own. This is not "Jedi vs merc" here people, force + guns can still exist, if not as godlike as before.

[FatalStrike]

Gunners will whine, but too bad.

 

In 1.02 I could DFA and recover quickly and a simple step wouldn't help you. This is gone.

 

In 1.02 I could pull bunny hopping gunners to the floor with easy and kill them with a very strong saber. This is gone.

 

In 1.02 I could Jump at you and BS you before killing you or hurting you badly. This is gone

 

In 1.02 I could strike quickly with heavy without a slow down. This is gone

 

I could move in any driection quickly which SERIOUSLy aided in dodging weapons. This is gone

 

I could Drain you from Far away to ZERO force in 1 sec. Thus leaving gunners vulnerable to other forces. This is Gone.

 

I could grip you far more effectively. This is gone

 

Now some of these things caused HUGE exploits in Saber -V- Saber. However regardless of how you feel about the things I named they DID HELP SABERS -V- GUNNERS.

 

They are gone, and people do not want them back. However there is a large outcry for a return of sabers use in CTF matchs that have guns enabled. As it stands a saber is a shield and very little more.

 

This new system provides a different balance while allowing 1.04 saberist to keep there silly weakened special moves.

 

Gunners frankly would like nothing better then to keep this game gun > saber in all situations but in order to cater to the MAJORITY of players this must be changed.

 

Most of the servers are Duel NF (saber only) and FFA FF (saber only) thus one must address their concerns. Gunners may or may not like it, but the fact is all they don't like is making things fair.

 

The End

 

Flame away.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Toonces

heh, I can't code a lick either, I just don't like all that logic, besides, I've been an artist my whole life so I figured why not learn how to do art in 3d?

 

no idea on the bot problem, I think all bots have to be client side too so you probly have to include them in the mod. I've made plenty of custom bots, but I'm not sure exactly how to do what you guys want

 

Hey, don't think that because you're an artist that you're fated to not be able to code. I've got a freakin Fine Art degree! I actually heard a figure one time that 98% of all degreed artists end up doing something other than art. Guess I'm a slave to the trend, eh?

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

I thought Artifex was supposed to be trying to win the CTF Pro's over with Promod, so why go the wrong way?

 

All the CTF Pro's have spent months building up a mastery in ALL the weapons, now in order for use to stand a chance in a CTF match we have to forfeit nearly all the weapons and powerups just so we can use the necessary force powers?

 

I haven't put any force points into saber (except level 1 offense to get the actual weapon) for several months, i've spent ages refining my force config. As intriguing as this mod looks, I don't see it winning over the CTFers with its current direction.

 

What this is doing is twofold:

 

1. It's no longer allowing gunslinging to totally dominate the game, to the complete exclusion of the saber. Jedi Masters flying through the air wielding Rocket Launchers and toting high explosives flies in the face of the entire Star Wars universe. Learning to be a Jedi is a demanding, exclusive calling which does not allow the student to deviate from his study of the Force in order to learn the finer points of the use, maintenance, and other finer points of the E11 Blaster Rifle, or the Golan Arms Flechette Rifle, or any of the other weapons.

 

If you want your character to use guns, then you shouldn't expect them to have dedicated as much time to their mastery of the Force Powers. Raven's decision to allow the Jedi to use all of these weapons and the Force simultaneously was a grievous error, and one that has, in my opinion, proved to be very self-destructive.

 

2. It forces players to think much more about their role in the offense or defense in a CTF game. Currently, every player is an Uber Jack-of-all-Trades. With unlimited access to the weapons, and nearly unlimited acces to all the Force Powers at Jedi Master level, you barely need to pay attention to how you configure the Force Setup screen.

 

I would be willing to bet that nearly every current, competitive CTF player has a force setup that is almost identical to the one that everyone else uses. You said it yourself, nobody puts any points in the saber because the saber is useless in CTF. That everybody takes Level 3 Force Sight is no mystery. Mind Trick and Grip are almost totally ignored because they're so easily countered. With all those points freed up, you've got enough left to buy nearly every other power at level 3. That means, that if everyone follows this formula, that everyone is just a clone of everyone else. The only exception being choosing Light or Dark side.

 

IMO, everyone being the same is boring. This new system ensures that hardly any two players' configs will be the same, as every player will have to think much harder about which configuration best suits their playing style.

 

I don't doubt that those players at the top of the CTF ladders will resist using ProMod 3.0. Nobody at the top of their game ever wants to have the deck reshuffled. They're just going to have to realize that letting go of their winning hand in a simplistic game of War is much more preferable than missing out on an intense game of high-stakes Poker, even if they have to risk losing.

[Rad Blackrose]

I'm sorry if this is going to look like comparing apples to oranges, but in all honesty it is not. You want to know what this reminds me of? Counter-Strike, pacth 1.4. For those who don't know about what the patch specifically did, besides screw with pistols, it screwed bunnyhopping. What happened afterwards? Most of the CS population was in a uproar. Why? Because their little "technique" that helped them win was disappearing... fast.

 

It does not surprise me that some of the JKII CTF community is feeling as though they are being backed into the same corner as the Counter-Strike players thru ProMod. Sure, while you need the latest version of CS to continue playing, you don't in terms of ProMod. It is just a mod, and you can go back to standard 1.04.

 

I've been playing since 1.02, and I will tell you flat out that I believe that CTF has to be the most boring mode in Jedi Knight II. Why? No individuality. Want to use a saber? Too bad the team of all gunners will hunt your arse down and riddle you with holes. Think Mind Trick is great? Not when everyone has force sight 3. Grip, great tool, eh? Not when someone either pushes you, absorbs, or just discharges in your face. The gunner is the god of JKII right now; ProMod is putting gunning in its rightful place.

 

Instead of just dropping your force points into speed, absorb, push, pull, and sight while neglecting all the saber aspects, you have to *THINK* where your points are going to go. That means *STRATEGY* and *TEAM COORDINATION!* No more of this one man army bulls*it that makes you think you can tread into an opposing team's base, grab the flag, and light up speed/absorb while your flechette is doing the talking. Now you have to think to yourself: "Am I going to get that force power or should I put more ammo in my powerful gun to support my teammate who is running for the flag."

 

In all honesty, I don't care if the CTF scene is left in the dust with the same ol' donkey poo. ProMod is going to be the way to go, and at last we get to ditch the Beta tags!

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

This new weapons point-allocation system is bringing the game closer to being an rpg and further away from being an FPS. Hence the reason why you will never be able to satisfy both the gunners and the saberists.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love RPGs, especially ones such as BG2, Fallout etc, I will probably buy KotOR and SWGalaxies if I can get my hands on a broadband connection. But I don't think multiplayer JK2 was ever meant to be an RPG, if it wasn it wouldn't have been based on the Quake 3 engine.

 

This isn't getting closer to being an RPG. It's getting closer to a class-based, tactical Star Wars shooter. Oops, did I say that?

 

I mean just look at the first screenshot, almost nothing in Saber abilities, yet choosing weapons, all of which are essential in a CTF game (yes, even the bowcaster) means you literally are about as useless as an inflatable dartboard in CTF.

 

I think I can leave it to my beta testers to argue this point.

 

JK2 is about utilizing Saber, Force and GUNS. Kyle is a mercenary and supposedly a very good marksman. JK2 is about KYLE, so therefore the game is about the saber AND the guns.

 

You make my point perfectly. Jk2 is about using all three of these effectively. There is no player anywhere that can successfully argue that the Saber is of any use in a CTF game other than a shield. That means you're only using 2 of the 3. I personally know many former competitive players who quit specifically because the Saber sucked ass in CTF. This is an unforgivable gameplay flaw. Neither Lucasarts or Raven is concerned with fixing this problem. I've taken it upon myself to remedy this.

 

I hope you'll give it a try with an open mind before you cling too tightly to what is, unarguably, a badly flawed game.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

I missed out a point, Imagine you have decided to be a gunner, now in order to survive in CTF you need level 3 in pull and push to prevent being knocked to your doom. So that's already some points you've got to find from somewhere. Now, at least one enemy will have Force Speed, so you need force speed in order to stand a chance. What i'm getting at is that if the CTF community were to play this mod, they would nearly ALWAYS choose speed, rage, pull, push and jump over any specific weapon.

 

However the CTF community LIKE using guns, so as a result there is no incentive to play the mod.

 

It's going to be difficult to push a gunner to his doom with a jetpack strapped to his back.

[Lathain Valtiel]

QUESTION! How will you incorporate the Jetpacks without making it look absolutely hideous on most models?

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

I'm sorry if this is going to look like comparing apples to oranges, but in all honesty it is not. You want to know what this reminds me of? Counter-Strike, pacth 1.4. For those who don't know about what the patch specifically did, besides screw with pistols, it screwed bunnyhopping. What happened afterwards? Most of the CS population was in a uproar. Why? Because their little "technique" that helped them win was disappearing... fast.

 

It does not surprise me that some of the JKII CTF community is feeling as though they are being backed into the same corner as the Counter-Strike players thru ProMod. Sure, while you need the latest version of CS to continue playing, you don't in terms of ProMod. It is just a mod, and you can go back to standard 1.04.

 

I've been playing since 1.02, and I will tell you flat out that I believe that CTF has to be the most boring mode in Jedi Knight II. Why? No individuality. Want to use a saber? Too bad the team of all gunners will hunt your arse down and riddle you with holes. Think Mind Trick is great? Not when everyone has force sight 3. Grip, great tool, eh? Not when someone either pushes you, absorbs, or just discharges in your face. The gunner is the god of JKII right now; ProMod is putting gunning in its rightful place.

 

Instead of just dropping your force points into speed, absorb, push, pull, and sight while neglecting all the saber aspects, you have to *THINK* where your points are going to go. That means *STRATEGY* and *TEAM COORDINATION!* No more of this one man army bulls*it that makes you think you can tread into an opposing team's base, grab the flag, and light up speed/absorb while your flechette is doing the talking. Now you have to think to yourself: "Am I going to get that force power or should I put more ammo in my powerful gun to support my teammate who is running for the flag."

...

 

Well said, Blackrose, well said.

[Doctor Shaft]

This is going to be so much fun when all of this stuff gets released.

 

I think you should hold off and release the pack and the power and the whole lot Artifex, if that means a week or two I guess. Putting out a 3.1 might just confuse people, and they could possibly outright reject some of the newer aspects. It's best not to get the promod community, of whatever it is composed of, all broken up over versions. I'm sure no one would just return to 2.0, but if it were a 3.0 versus 3.1, the possibility exists.

 

And to all you future version 3 players, you can expect that no matter what gun load outs you have, I'm looking forward to having some instense saber vs gun battles. I've got some experience doing this playing JK2++, but by now I might be rusty, if not completely lost. We'll see. I can't wait for a jetpack either, that will be fun to fight against, not use.

 

I of course don't plan on using any gadgets, etc. I always wanted to be pure jedi, cuz I'm a dork like that. I want everyone else to use their gadgets on me, just to give me the exhiliration when I know I actually have a decent chance of winning with what i've got too.

 

Just a few force questions though Artifex. What force changes, if any, are you making for 3.0? Here's a list of things that crossed my mind.

 

1.)Force Grip: Now that we have this advanced weapons system, and the possibility of jedi who have no other weapons besides his saber and the force, what effectiveness will grip have. Theoretically, in Promod, a gunner or any other person just carrying a gun could pull the trigger to destroy you. JK2++ gave grip one saving grace - you could move the person at level 3 like crazy. No movement restriction, just throw your mouse around like crazy. It made it harder to push off, allowed you to force jump in the air and then drop the person, doing fall damage.

 

2.)Force Protection: we already had this discussion. Annoying against the saber sometimes, almost useless against some guns. I would be a person who would approve changing its function altogther, but that's probably not going to happen.

 

3.)Push/Pull: From what I think I know, we should be able to pull someone into a knockdown should we be behind them, and they are in the air, or whatever. Just wondering, will there be a more frequent appearance, or better yet, defineable situations in which we can cause knockdowns. I didn't like that knockdowns were random before, in early versions too often, later versions almost never.

 

4.)Lightning: Okay, we've got this new weapon system again, but we're still left with jedi that run around with pretty lame force powers. I know you've said that the lightning/drain trick works wonders. Well, what if I just want lightning, then what? You shortened the range, and we know the damage at level 1, and maybe even 2 are practically negligible if you're fast enough or have a counter power. It would be nice if the power was dangerous, but slowed the person down, or put them stationary altogether.

 

I think that's it. You gave mind trick it's due. If i'm correct, even if my opponent has lvl3 sight and i have lvl3 trick, he still has to be close and looking at my general direction. Also, with this new system, people who choose a whole lot of guns may not have the points left to get the sight needed to see the jedi wannabe's. That's a good thing.

 

Oh wait, Saber throw. I think that does forty points of damage, right? Any bonus against non saber carrying opponents? well, whatever, you're probably tired of my constant questions/suggestions. Lataz.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Dr. Shaft, I think the suggestion you placed on Lightning should be applied to Drain too, however methinks it emight be slammed down as a severe nerfing, and ArtifeX has already said no to nerfing anything.

[thehomicidalegg]

i think you should release 1 patch instead of 2 in such a short time, because that may cause confusion and confliction.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Homicidal Egg is right, look what it is doing to JediPLUS.

[Toa Tahu]

Currently I don't like the idea of 'non-weapon find-force-proficiency',or the last force power(I forgot the name,yeah).

 

Items should be for everyone.Other than that,the pics show great promise for a nicely heralded mod.

 

Do I need previous versions to run it,and,will there be bot support?

[Toonces]

Your right ArtifeX, that's a crazy statistic, and very true, I might just find myself writing code someday. I was a computer science major so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch from what I'm doing now

 

Originally posted by MMXP

Homicidal Egg is right, look what it is doing to JediPLUS.

 

I would aggree with you if this wasn't anything but Promod. Compareing Promod to JediPLUS is like comparing old rusty Chevy to a Porche That being said, ArtifeX can take all the time he needs, I'll still be here, I can wait a little longer

[L3onheart]

Why play with guns? It's a SW based game with a lightsaber, provides an unique playing experience. Want guns? Go to Q3A, UT(2k3), CS, DoD, RtCW or what not.

Playing a CTF match with saber-only and full-force, now THAT'S SURREAL SKILLS!

[Darth Kaan]

After six months of playing NF Duels and FF/SO FFA and TFFA games, I wanted to try something new. So I ventured into the world of CTF.

 

At heart in this game, I am a Jedi, therefore a saberist/force user. I was interested in CTF game mode because I like TEAM BASED games. It did not take long for me to realize that to play CTF in its current state and be good at it, I would have to lose the Saber, learn to use guns and re-learn when to use certain force powers. Basically for a Saber purist, it is starting all over again and it is NOT Jedi vs Merc because the gunners have full use of the force powers as well.

 

This was a major turn-off to the game type for me, because the saber/force powers I had learned to use effectively, were a joke vs The guns/force powers combination. So I realized that The anti-saber attitude I encountered amoung the better CTF players was not so much their personel dislike for the saber itself like I originally thought, but instead, an essential one for success in the current CTF game type.

 

Still and all, this just did sit well with me, based on the fact the two things making JKII unique amoung all FPS games is the Saber and the force powers. In my opinion, with only the force powers being useful to a saberist in CTF mode, the game type is broken. Team based games should be balanced enough that all weapons should be effective when employed with skill.

 

So as an alternative, I set up my server for FF SO CTF, using Promod Beta 2. While myself and many others liked FF SO CTF, many people did not. So back to all weapons it went.

 

As a saberist, I like what I am seeing develope with Promod. I can also see why gunners don't. However, unlike the current situation where saberists not only have to relearn force power usage to play CTF effectively AND give up their preffered weapon entirely, gunners won't have to do that with Promod.

 

I think it will boil down to:

 

1. Those that want the Saber to be effective again will use Promod.

 

2. Gun's only players that do not want to be limited as the saber players are in vanilla 1.04 will not.

 

There may indeed be two different types of CTF arenas in the future...

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Ok, here's the current situation: The Saber ISN'T USELESS in CTF atm, its not used much by the pros because in matches the players move incredibly fast, however that isn't to say it couldn't be used in matches. Its a matter of preference.

 

Even though I have no trouble killing saberists, all it takes is one with force seeing and a DFA lined up when I come round a corner to stop me. Sure I don' t get killed a lot by the Saber, but then I don't get killed much by the bryar, bowcaster or disruptor.

 

So here it is, plain and simple: The Saber ISN'T useless in 1.04, its just some people seem to have this idea in their head that they should be able to play CTF using NOTHING BUT sabers in a Guns game, hence the complaints. If you use a saber when the situation dictates, the same as with any other weapon you will likely come out on top of someone who just uses guns.

 

Now a little extra, GUNS don't dominate CTF, force pull and push do. There, i've said it. I hate the lack of skill required to push and pull someone. To kill a decent player, even if they've got a saber out, is still a challenge, anyone who's played Spider_AL would know this. But its far too easy to kill someone just by tapping pull or push repeatedly.

 

Oh, and a JETPACK? What a great idea, lets allow players access to all the errors and glitches in maps so that they can shoot but not be shot.

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Ok, here's the current situation: The Saber ISN'T USELESS in CTF atm, its not used much by the pros because in matches the players move incredibly fast, however that isn't to say it couldn't be used in matches. Its a matter of preference.

 

Even though I have no trouble killing saberists, all it takes is one with force seeing and a DFA lined up when I come round a corner to stop me. Sure I don' t get killed a lot by the Saber, but then I don't get killed much by the bryar, bowcaster or disruptor.

 

So here it is, plain and simple: The Saber ISN'T useless in 1.04, its just some people seem to have this idea in their head that they should be able to play CTF using NOTHING BUT sabers in a Guns game, hence the complaints. If you use a saber when the situation dictates, the same as with any other weapon you will likely come out on top of someone who just uses guns.

 

Now a little extra, GUNS don't dominate CTF, force pull and push do. There, i've said it. I hate the lack of skill required to push and pull someone. To kill a decent player, even if they've got a saber out, is still a challenge, anyone who's played Spider_AL would know this. But its far too easy to kill someone just by tapping pull or push repeatedly.

 

Oh, and a JETPACK? What a great idea, lets allow players access to all the errors and glitches in maps so that they can shoot but not be shot.

 

Good points and I agree about push and pull, but the use of rage to enhance the fire rate of weapons also seems to be a deciding factor. But thats another topic.

 

Force/guns beats Saber/force hands down 99 percent of the time. I know I can not weild my Saber to any positive effect for my TEAM's score in CTF, other than cutting down an opposing teams flag carrier when I catch them by surprise. Maybe it is just because I suck at CTF, I most certainly have not ruled that out as a possiblility.

 

Maybe I am wrong and missing the point, but it seems to me that the biggest imbalance in all weapons, team games, is that Gunners have more points to devote to force powers to further compliment their long and mid range advantage.

 

With Promod, all players will have to deal with saberists more often as the selection of points will be spread out more now for gunners. Will this make the saber more viable? Not sure, but I can't wait to find out.

 

If I am wrong, please explain the error in my way of thinking. I want to understand.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by MMXP

QUESTION! How will you incorporate the Jetpacks without making it look absolutely hideous on most models?

 

Well, to begin with, probably not much. The jetpack itself won't be visible unless you use a model that has the jetpack already in it, like the Mandalores. I'm going to try to use the missile smoke trail as a visual indicator for the time being.

 

I need to find a good modeller to help me create a jetpack that I can bolt onto the player model when that player has access to the jetpack.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Ok, here's the current situation: The Saber ISN'T USELESS in CTF atm...........Its a matter of preference.

 

OK I was ready to except this statement until you wrote...

 

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Sure I don' t get killed a lot by the Saber, but then I don't get killed much by the bryar, bowcaster or disruptor.

 

So now you have equated the "lightsaber" with the weakest and most utterly useles guns in the game.

 

You have made everyone elses point for them DeTRiTiC. You first make a claim to saber use being a preference, then you pretty much admit that it is a detriment.

 

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

So here it is, plain and simple: The Saber ISN'T useless in 1.04, its just some people seem to have this idea in their head that they should be able to play CTF using NOTHING BUT sabers in a Guns game, hence the complaints.

 

DeTRiC what are you thinking?! This is not a way to simply use sabers all day. This is a way to allow players to choose their advantages, instead of picking up the strongest gun and having them all. What this does is allows players to customize their game plan, decide which guns are important to them and how much of what they are willing to give up to use it.

 

It levels the playing field for EVERYONE.

 

 

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

If you use a saber when the situation dictates, the same as with any other weapon you will likely come out on top of someone who just uses guns.

 

This is a lie. If you use a heavy repeater in Golan in EVERY situation you still stand a very good chance of winning.

 

If you based your use of the saber on when the situation dictated in CTF you would only use it as a shield and nothing else. You yourself have said that you do not put any more force points into a saber other then just enough to have one.

 

Fact is gunners like to having all the advantages and not having to use a saber. This doesn't change the saber part but it does allow saber users to have advantages of their own. That's fair play.

 

Raven destroyed the Saber, and Artifex brought it back.

 

The End

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

This is going to be so much fun when all of this stuff gets released.

 

I think you should hold off and release the pack and the power and the whole lot Artifex, if that means a week or two I guess. Putting out a 3.1 might just confuse people, and they could possibly outright reject some of the newer aspects. It's best not to get the promod community, of whatever it is composed of, all broken up over versions. I'm sure no one would just return to 2.0, but if it were a 3.0 versus 3.1, the possibility exists.

Several people have brought this up. I'm beginning to agree. Adding the new power and the jetpack would probably take a couple of weeks to get implemented. The plus side of that is that my closed beta testing of 3.0 would make it pretty rock solid by that point.

Just a few force questions though Artifex. What force changes, if any, are you making for 3.0? Here's a list of things that crossed my mind.

 

1.)Force Grip: Now that we have this advanced weapons system, and the possibility of jedi who have no other weapons besides his saber and the force, what effectiveness will grip have. Theoretically, in Promod, a gunner or any other person just carrying a gun could pull the trigger to destroy you. JK2++ gave grip one saving grace - you could move the person at level 3 like crazy. No movement restriction, just throw your mouse around like crazy. It made it harder to push off, allowed you to force jump in the air and then drop the person, doing fall damage.

Grip is going to be mostly useful in a team situation. Grabbing an enemy and effectively stunning him for a second is going to provide a teammate with a stationary target for a brief second. Grabbing someone out of the air (while they're using a jetpack) could also get interesting.

2.)Force Protection: we already had this discussion. Annoying against the saber sometimes, almost useless against some guns. I would be a person who would approve changing its function altogther, but that's probably not going to happen.

I'm expecting this power to become one of the premier choices for saber purists. It's going to be one of the best defenses against level 4 guns.

3.)Push/Pull: From what I think I know, we should be able to pull someone into a knockdown should we be behind them, and they are in the air, or whatever. Just wondering, will there be a more frequent appearance, or better yet, defineable situations in which we can cause knockdowns. I didn't like that knockdowns were random before, in early versions too often, later versions almost never.

TK attacks are going to knock people down from behind at a longer range than normal. You'll still be invulnerable to them while crouching on the ground. What's going to be really interesting is that I'm going to put a very high speed limit on the jetpack, but I'm going to enable crash damage if you hit a wall going too fast. So, you'll be able to use Push and Pull to knock a Jetpacker off course and ram them into a wall, resulting in much owwie.

4.)Lightning: Okay, we've got this new weapon system again, but we're still left with jedi that run around with pretty lame force powers. I know you've said that the lightning/drain trick works wonders. Well, what if I just want lightning, then what? You shortened the range, and we know the damage at level 1, and maybe even 2 are practically negligible if you're fast enough or have a counter power. It would be nice if the power was dangerous, but slowed the person down, or put them stationary altogether.

I'm thinking of some things with the new force power that may allow me to lengthen the range just a bit on both drain and lightning. Have to see how it goes.

I think that's it. You gave mind trick it's due. If i'm correct, even if my opponent has lvl3 sight and i have lvl3 trick, he still has to be close and looking at my general direction. Also, with this new system, people who choose a whole lot of guns may not have the points left to get the sight needed to see the jedi wannabe's. That's a good thing.

 

Oh wait, Saber throw. I think that does forty points of damage, right? Any bonus against non saber carrying opponents? well, whatever, you're probably tired of my constant questions/suggestions. Lataz.

 

I'm proably going to allow the DEMP2 to reveal any Mind Trickers in its blast radius.

 

The normal saber throw damage is 30 points. With ProMod's 50% bonus against non-saber wielders, that's 45 points.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Toa Tahu

Currently I don't like the idea of 'non-weapon find-force-proficiency',or the last force power(I forgot the name,yeah).

 

Items should be for everyone.Other than that,the pics show great promise for a nicely heralded mod.

 

Do I need previous versions to run it,and,will there be bot support?

 

No you won't need a previous version to run it, and the bot support is already in and working. Lando will consistently use guns against you, and bots like Desann, Tavion, and Luke will continue to use sabers and force powers against you. Lando's freakin deadly now, btw.

 

Bot makers won't have to do anything special to their bot files, either. The system uses current information to figure out their skills.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

...

Oh, and a JETPACK? What a great idea, lets allow players access to all the errors and glitches in maps so that they can shoot but not be shot.

 

If one person with a jetpack can get somewhere, then someone else with a jetpack can get there as well, and shoot them.

 

If there are maps with glitches out there that could be taken advantage of, then I'm sure that anyone running a ProMod 3.0 CTF competition server will remove them from the arena list if they become a problem.

[Doctor Shaft]

Keep in mind, this will probably not be as bad as the grappling hook of jedi vs merc servers. The hook thing was a good idea, but the counters against it are non existant. You can smack into any wall you like without consequence, hang indefinitely, and no one could use the force or anything else to manipulate how you move I think. Even if they could, the chances of it are limited.

 

In this version, I'm sure having a jetpack will be a costly endeavor points wise. I'm sure Artifex won't allow a jetpacker to also be armed to the teeth with multiple high level guns. Hopefully the jet pack will not have indefinite flying ability either. It would be cool if it drained something, and rather than just insta recharge, the packer has to pick up shield units or something.

 

But anyway, we can force pull and push them, and their velocity will hurt them. In CTF, I don't see this exploit being incredibly damaging. Places like the nar shadaa ctf map have plenty of high spots, but when you're moving fast trying to get that flag, he's not going to be completely successful in his perch, and other jetpackers can get to him. If you have no jetpackers, in some cases you can actually just do a piggy back system and hoist yourself up there. I've seen people grip their buddies up places too. In FFA... well, you'll just have to live with the fact that there are probably going to be some players that will perch themselves in a stupid spot. Just avoid them, watch for their attacks, and let them have a boring game by themselves.