Cheater Cheating

[Admiral Derski]

Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll

i agree for getting kicked. listen to this story.

i came in with the leader at about 30 points. in 10 min i was at 40 and the leader at 38 and they kicked me because they said i was a grip whore. i didn't even have grip on cuz i was light. i was mainly pushing. and they were stupid enough to jump near edges. and then all i do is push. when i go in bespin from floor 2 to 3. they force jump with me. and all i need to do is force push. they kicked me because they thought i gripped and i was a lighty . thats pretty crazy

 

Ive been called an absorb whore, Beat that one!!!!

[Spider AL]

I think being called a gun-whore on a guns server takes the cake, frankly.

 

/me eats the cake

 

[lllKyNeSlll]

hey spider i never tried this yet but can u super or pulse grip in jo? i.e. like in ff bgj by tapping use force

 

of course it won't be useful since its easy to break grip

 

and of course i never used it in jk

[Spider AL]

I think supergrip was a bug of a type unique to JK, Kynes... If you find a way to SG in JO though, don't hesitate to post it here so that everyone's on an even footing.

[DSbr-HaZe]

u mean so everyone can whine some more

[Hekx]

I've been playing CTF saber-only ever day for a few months now, I've encountered many 'scripters'

Most popular is the 'Kick Scripter'

A while ago, when I was quite new to MP combat, downloaded a script which had binds for: backstab, kick, all the 3 stances specials. At first I thought it would help me. If people use scripts to learn the moves, that's okay. But it does leave an unfair advantage to other players on the server, who have spent time learning the moves. Most kick scripters hop about too much, so you can always spot them

When I started using the script, I unbinded fewer, and fewer moves, because to be honest, I knew how to backstab and do the blue special. I then continued to observe the moves from the script and the commands to execute them. This did help me to learn the moves.

 

Anyway, if scripters can execute the moves without the script, then using the script seems okay.

But scripters are still spoiling the game for others.

Scripts take away all the fun from the game.

Scripts = Cheats.

Just like using cheats in SP; scripts are the cheats of MP. If the person cannot perform the moves manually. If they can, then it's another story.

 

Is there really a point to having a kick, followed by a kick then a DFA binded to key?

 

There's lots of tips / cheats / exploits in MP; unreachable places, faster speed, etc.

 

If someone was able to sidekick me off the edge before I could, I probably would be pissed, but it seems they're a better sidekicker than me I don't see that as cheating, aslong as it was them not a script.

If your read all that, you must be bored. So the bottom line is:

If you can't perform the moves in the script without the script; it's cheating

But I still see scripts as cheating

 

Thank you

[FK|FallenOne]

I'm so sick of people blasting good kickers, calling them scriptors. Listen. Anyone who knows how to kick really well, and owns your @$$ with kicks, more than likely ISNT using a script. I get called a kick scriptor all the time. I just laugh. The kicks I do, how and when I execute them would not be able to be done via a script. Especially when it's against a moving target. And no, people that are always jumping around aren't necessarilly using a script either. They're probably strafe jumping to gain speed. Granted there are probably people out there that use scripts. But just because you get owned by someone kicking your teeth in, don't assume they're a scriptor. They're probably just better than you, and have played the game longer.

[cybersurfur]

Personally i dont see what the big hubub is all about, i think everyone by now who has been playing the game has a moral idea of what is cheating and what isnt. Cheating is cheating theres no way to argue that its OK to cheat(In my view that includes using scripts and editing all sorts in the game to give to yourself a biger advantage.) and the "Its ok cos ever1 does it" line is a load of shizzer cos if everyone turned into a load of homosydal maniacs than would you do it? No!! So shut ur cake hole!

If your gonna cheat then whats the point in playing the game absolutly pointless cos you can now do everything..dah!!

 

So in conclusion, cheating leads to the anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to the Dark Side. Catch my drift?

 

 

Later Peeps

 

cyberyoda

[Neko Lain]

Ok, i'm just gonna add what i think is cheating and what not.

 

I belive abusing bugs is cheating.

I don't belive using scripts is cheating.

 

Lame is excesive abusing of something in the game which gives him or her an advantage.

 

I myself use acouple of scripts, because i think they make the job easier, let me make an eksample.

The lounge script for eksample, if i wore to do it manually, i'd manage to pull it off 60% of the time, and making alot of work for myself, but if i use a script, i can manage to pull it of 90% of the time.

I also use a kick script, yes i partially agree that it is "kinda" lame, but i have a golden rule.

I never use kick as a primary attack, cause i belive it affects the way my opponent plays that i'm forcing him to resort to "lame" moves.

I only use kick for defending or part of a combination.

When i say defending i mean, if i know someone is going to kick me, i will rather kick him first, then dodge his attempt.

 

A good example of the fact that pulling moves off requires timeing and skill rather then just a combination with a script is the yellow stance special move.

I tried a script which did just that, but i found out it was alot better to do it manually, because then you had alot more control, and the success rating was alot higher.

 

 

Now another part which is brought to my atension, is that people think that only newbies, or losers use scripts, that is not true, alot of people use scripts regardless what skill they have.

And it's not cheating, even if you abuse it, it isen't cheating, then your just being lame.

Scripts just make the job easier, i can still pull of every move without problem, but with a script i can pull it of easier, and with higher success rating, but it still requires timeing and perfection, and that is what fighting is all about, timeing.

 

A player who has scripts for everything would make him very predicteble, but simple moves scripted just makes it easier to pull off, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Like scripting the dfa, this mean you have only one way of doing that move, you can't "customise" it while pulling it off.

 

People who claim that scripting is cheating, of lame, really should rethink their argument, because it is being ignorant. Being lame is about how you play, not what you use to play.

And any script moves is nothing, if you don't know how to use them.

[lllKyNeSlll]

omg. kick dfa is fine to do without the script.

most ppl just can't do it cuz they move too far and jump over them with the dfa.

im not one of the elite+ at sabz but i can hit kick dfa 9 out of 10 on a flat surface, 4 out of 5 on a uneven surface, and 1/2 when the person uses push.

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by Neko Lain

 

I belive abusing bugs is cheating.

I don't belive using scripts is cheating

 

Lame is excesive abusing of something in the game which gives him or her an advantage.

 

Hmmm...really? I'd say:

 

Abusing bugs is lame.

Using certain scripts is cheating.

Excessive use/spamming of just about anything is lame. If a guy does nothing but rolls backwards, that's sorta lame, stupid and boring.

 

Arguing about what is "honorable" or the "right way to play the game" or "lame" is hopeless. Some people think 2 lunges in one duel is spamming, dishonorable etc. Others do not. There's no way to find a compromise that would suit everybody.

 

However, I am amazed that some people still refuse to accept that certain scripts are blatant cheats.

 

I have argued my case in this thread enough already. I'll just quote a few pro-scripters. I think they do a pretty good job in proving my point.

 

The lounge script for eksample, if i wore to do it manually, i'd manage to pull it off 60% of the time, and making alot of work for myself, but if i use a script, i can manage to pull it of 90% of the time.

 

 

Scripts just make the job easier....with a script i can pull it of easier, and with higher success rating...

 

Cheating means taking an unfair advantage, since anyone can bind a script how is it unfair?

 

I'm not going to be at a disadvantage becuase someone else has it scripted.

 

competitive play allows it

 

To sum it up: "It's in the game, others are doing it and you could do it too"

 

The only somewhat valid argument, imho, is the last one: competitive players have agreed on accepting scripting. That, however, only means to me that competetive gamers use certain cheats. Scripts are accepted and thus "fair" (still cheating, though) in their community.

 

I've commented on the rest of the retarded arguments earlier. Please just think about it for a moment, I'll give you yet another example of this wonderful logic used:

 

Guys are playing hockey. One guy takes the blade off his skates, sharpens it and tapes it on to his hockey stick. He then goes out on the ice and decapitates the opposing teams goalie.

 

Did he do something wrong?

 

Of course not! The blade and stick were

 

IN THE GAME AND USING THOSE TOOLS MADE WINNING EASIER AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT IT! DUH!

 

 

............

 

But hey: whatever makes you feel better... you can justify to yourself just about any action as long as you don't use your brain.

[Spider AL]

Ahem, decapitating another ice hockey player is not only illegal in law, but is also against the rules of ice hockey. Scripting is not against any law, nor is there any rulebook for JO. Therefore it cannot be classified as cheating.

 

I think they're stupid and lame too, but I don't think they qualify as cheats.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44054

 

Oh, my mistake. There's the rulebook.

[DSbr-HaZe]

im not a pro-scripter luc lol

 

i dont use them

 

competitive play allows them because in general people who play competitivly dont whine about every little thing which may be giving their opponent an advantage

 

and the fact is a script really doesnt give u an advantage

 

u cannot program logic into a script, and its more important to be smart than it is to hit a button

 

take pro tennis for example

 

they are all basically on the same skill level, yet who wins is generally due to the court surface (map?) and who is mentally and physically stronger at that moment in time.

 

the same applies for any fps

 

a single script or even a few scripts which will perform moves etc. will not give u an advantage over an intelligent player and this is why competitive players have no gripes about them. they adapt, they find other ways to beat their opponent.

 

other reason might be that the jk2 competive play doesnt involve sabers (CTF, TDM)

 

what is and isnt a cheat is once again determined by someones morals

 

its pretty standard for aimbots/wallhacks to be considered cheats because they give u an obvious advantage

 

a script does not necessarily give u an advantage in jk2

[Acer Palmatum]

If I hear "I think..." in reference to what is or is not cheating one more time, I will fall on my saber. It's not subject to your opinion unless we are playing on YOUR server folks. Your opinion of the "spirit" of the game, or what is "lame" does not constitute the definition of cheating unless you are hosting and everyone is made aware of the rules.

 

I see many reasonable people here that admit they don't like one or another particular aspect of someone else's game play, but also admit that it is not against the rules. Kudos to those people. They are mature enough to realize that there is always someone better, regardless of their ethics or methods.

 

Anyone that can own me in the game by any means is someone deserving respect IMHO. And they are someone I can learn from. Unless they are c ocky, and have some kill counter that refers to everyone as a noob, and tells them how worthless they or their mother are or otherwise show that they are a poor sport... Or if they are FK|FallenOne and have killed me a million times in CTF while playing FK against all with 4 FK members vs. 10+ non members. j/k Fallen.

 

And that Hockey argument makes no sense at all... Fighting is against the rules. I think decapitating opposing players would be considered fighting... at least. Now if you were playing Rollerball...

[FatalStrike]

It's incredible this has gone on this long.

 

You can't stop scripting no matter how strongly you feel about it. You can't be sure that someone is or isn't using them.

 

What you can do...

 

Is play the game and have fun.

 

So enjoy!

 

(Come play 1.02 it's more fun, IMHO.)

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

im not a pro-scripter luc lol

 

i dont use them

 

competitive play allows them because in general people who play competitivly dont whine about every little thing which may be giving their opponent an advantage

 

and the fact is a script really doesnt give u an advantage

what is and isnt a cheat is once again determined by someones morals

 

its pretty standard for aimbots/wallhacks to be considered cheats because they give u an obvious advantage

 

a script does not necessarily give u an advantage in jk2

 

Okay. First of all I didn't accuse you of being a pro-scripter. Second of all...well, and if I did, so what? Sue me.

 

Third of all.....uh....I forget.

 

But fifth if all: there is a difference between scripts and scripts. If a script changes your saber colour, so what? Only scripts that give you some sort of advantage might be considered cheating.

I doubt I have to explain to all the l337d3wdz here that CTF is a whole different game. Sabers play a only minor role. The setting is quite different in, say, a saber only FFA.

 

 

Fourth of all...no wait..nevermind.. Anyways - the point isn't whether or not scripters can be beaten.

 

But if someone comes out and says that the game designers had spesifically in mind that players should go and create their little notepad-files filled with complex commands in the JKII folder and bind all that to certain keys, then...well, I'll just

 

Post scriptum: I have never ever whined about anything in a JK II game (expect for those 1.03 retarded ridiculous assfighters)

[FatalStrike]

but at least he can jump...

 

Here is Luc trying to slam, who says White Men can't jump? (or is it White men can't please their ladies?....oh well whatever)

 

and so what if this post has nothing to do with the topic? The topic has nothing to do with anything important anyway...right?

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by FatalStrike

but at least he can jump...

 

Here is Luc trying to slam, who says White Men can't jump? (or is it White men can't please their ladies?....oh well whatever)

 

 

Heeeeeeeyyyyy! You can't do that... ? You can't post a pic of Me?! That's got to be against some basic forum rules!! ...right?

 

Oh well. Since you exposed me, I might as well come clean.. Yeah, I have the jump scripted and I even used a detpack to get up there...not to mention the lunge-float exploit. I'm such a hypocrite.

 

lol

 

 

And I can please my lady just fine!!

......who have you been talking to?! They're all lies!! Lies I tell you LIES!! I got mad $killz! (but don't ask me to prove it to you.. It might be kind of awkward)

[FK|FallenOne]

LMAO @ Acer. Dude, I was just looking through my screenshots for that game but I guess I didn't take one. I do have screens of 4 of us FK's layin the smaketh down on 10 other people back to back maps. 4 v 10 winning 4 to 1 and 3 to 1, but niether of them had you on it. Dunno if you DCed before I hit the shot button or what. Gotta realize that's gonna happen though. We compete together all the time, you and those 9 other unfortunate souls don't play together as much as we do.

 

Back to the topic however. I have to agree that scripting isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I think it's because there's no true way to really cheat in this game that people have to find the next closest thing to whine about. Personally, anyone I go up against, script all you want, I'll be able to see what you're doing quickly enough to adjust that all the scripted moves you throw at me won't make a splinter of difference as my boot kicks your teeth in.

 

To the Dsbr guy. Um...I hate to burst your bubble but just because TWL is monopolized by you guns/ff ctf'ers doesn't mean that the majority of the JK2 competition is guns. In fact there are more saber ladders then guns ladders. TWL has FF and NF Saber only 1v1 ladders as well as TDM FF sabers. Provinggrounds has a couple 1v1 and 2v2 sabers ladders. OGL HAD some but appears to have discontinued all JK2 gaming. Clannetwork had 3 sabers only ladders/tournaments but they've discontinued the game as well it appears as it's been 2 months since the last update for the JK2 area. Gleagues.com ONLY does sabers, one duel ladder and one tffa ladder. And Barrysworld is sponsoring a sabers only ctf league which many of us like to play. I don't get why you guys on the TWL forums talk so much crap about saber only people. It's ridiculous. And as I said there, I'll say here...there are plenty other FPS games that I'd rather play if I wanted guns, like UT2k3 for example.

 

The rest of you, take comfort in the fact that guys like GEEZus have been banned from these forums. The TWL forums are nothing but flame wars and constant bashing of those of us that like this game for what it was made for, IE the lightsaber!

[Spider AL]

While the lightsabre is a key aspect of the game, it's not everything. Perhaps sabre-only fanatics get a "bashed" a lot because they tend to be unwilling to accept that the DF series has more to it than mere lightsabre usage, and unwilling to show respect to those who enjoy other styles of play.

 

There's always someone on a guns CTF server or a guns FFA server who ends up complaining about being shot. Perhaps sabre-heads should save their ire, and direct it at those members of their own faction who give the rest a bad name.

[DSbr-HaZe]

i played sabers nf originally in jk1 and then moved to ff, because i was 12 and thought it was cool to have a lightsaber and swing it around like they do in the movies.

 

the fact is we have played sabers fooling around, and beaten a ton of saber clans, yes it takes some intelligence and knowledge of when to do what but the team aspect is really just ffa without being able to kill some people

 

and ctf is a waste sabers only

 

duels i can understand they just lack the other aspects i enjoy such as map control etc.

 

the reason we bash the saberists is because of 1.03 and the fact that this forum as most saberists whine whine whined about the fact that they were joining servers and being shot by guns.

 

yes there are more saber competitions and this is one of the reasons the game didnt take off. can you shoutcast a 1v1 duel sabers? or even tdm sabers only?

 

it also has to do with the community outside of jk2. nobody cares about hearing about some saber match

 

and if jk2 was to ever pick up at LANs or tournaments i guarantee it wouldn't have been with sabers. and i mean REAL tournys like WCG (which pG i think was petiitioning or something at one point) but once again because everyone associates this game with lightsabering whiners nobody cares, hence no competitions

 

while most games have their newbie groups, generally on pubs(as this game does too), the majority of jk2 players generally have no clue

 

hence we get people accusing us of using programs which perform our map runs for us (lol)

 

and hence why i am accused of using cogs in jk2

 

its a pathetic community, TWL trash talks simply out of boredom or to get a response, call it kiddy but it gets a laugh every now and then

 

point is: there is no real competition in this game and yes TWL is the closest thing

[lllKyNeSlll]

Originally posted by Spider AL

While the lightsabre is a key aspect of the game, it's not everything. Perhaps sabre-only fanatics get a "bashed" a lot because they tend to be unwilling to accept that the DF series has more to it than mere lightsabre usage, and unwilling to show respect to those who enjoy other styles of play.

 

There's always someone on a guns CTF server or a guns FFA server who ends up complaining about being shot. Perhaps sabre-heads should save their ire, and direct it at those members of their own faction who give the rest a bad name.

 

umm spider al. didn't u used to play only ff bgj and not oasis. no offense but just wondering what was ur reason. cuz jza said that his reason was that he was no good at oasis

[lllKyNeSlll]

hey haze were u elite as nf sabz like hexen and end or did u go ff then get leet.?

 

can u post those ip's again where the dsbr play?

 

hoodwinked said that darksaber=latinogamer on teamwarfare. is that true?

[DSbr-HaZe]

yes we are gamerslatino on twl

 

lol u mean elite once nf sabs became nf hacks??

 

i was good back in the days IRN ruled ladder etc. but never god of NF bgj

 

jza=hack

 

i only played nf for like a year or so it got incredibly boring

 

there really is nothing to it than moving out of way and hitting fire

[FK|FallenOne]

Haze, if Sabers Only CTF is so ridiculous, why then are there more active clans in sabers only CTF then there are on the TWL CTF Ladder. {FK}, =X=, |NJS|, |WoV|, [sFI], *DiK, |J*W|, [KOR], and (>GX<) are some just to name a few. And Us (FK), =X= and NJS all have Saber Only CTF Pubs up and they're always full. I own the FK server and I'm having to add slots to it because it's always full. If Sabers Only CTF is worthless why is there a bigger community of it then Guns CTFers?

 

On the note that "their's so much more to the Dark Forces series". Well, this isn't the Dark Forces Series anymore. It's now the "Jedi Knight Series". This is laid out by lucasarts themselves. When they released that little survey as to whether or not they should continue with the series they said JEDI KNIGHT series, not Dark Forces.

 

I'll say for one last time. Why did you all get this game? Because of the guns? I doubt it. Because of the use of Force Powers, more likely. Because of the lightsaber, highly likely. No matter how you guns lovers want to dress it up now, you know you went out and got this game because you wanted to run around hacking people up with a lightsaber. Not run around blasting the most spammable guns of any FPS. But noone's who's a diehard gunner's gonna admit it. They're gonna run their mouths calling us saber only fans noobs. Like GEEZus did to me on TWL forum. Funny thing is, I know I'd own him in any saber and force games, and I told him if he wanted to challenge me to guns to go out and by UT2K3, and I'd own him in a guns game. He never answered that. Listen gunners. The way this game is set up, ANY NOOB, can go buy the game, learn the basics of force powers, jump into a guns mp server, and wreck some form of havok. The guns were designed so that the EVERYDAY joe could have fun killing people. Saying you're "elite" with the guns in this game...well, like I told GEEZus, load up UT2K3 and we'll go head to head to see who's the real noob.