Promod 3.0 Released!

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

I forgot to stick the word "generally" in my post, naturally there are some good players, but i've noticed that people who are merely excellent saberists don't stand much of a chance against gunners or even other saberists.

 

My main complaint about basejk is how easy it is to get cheap kills from pull/push. Why should those who feel the same way as me embrace a mod where the only reliable way to kill us is pull/push? With the jetpack I can outrun and outmove the majority of players, but anyone with pull or push can finish me off in no time.

 

In fact to test a theory, I maxed out my health and shields (ie 100/200) and it still only took one saber swing to kill me.

 

So basically what i'm saying is that, a good gunner will win every game except where there is a good saberist. By good saberist I mean one who know's the gunners gaping weakness.

[Doctor Shaft]

Now now now, this is how we destroy the popularity of mods, by claiming that the original game is full of noobs.

 

In the end, 1.04 does take skill, however that skill is very streamlined, i.e. there's not a great deal of variation in those skills. People say that every weapon has a function, and when used at the right time, is good. That's true, but it's still a very gun oriented, especially explosive gun, game. It does take skill, bunny hopping fast, and having twitch reflexes.

 

Promod is a different beast, and right now it gives the saberists a chance to shine, and it gives people who aren't obsessed with speed to show off their gun prowess. However, the fast adrenaline people, i.e. the larger crowd, is displeased. Which is why i think another version should eventually look into this, in order to pull more of an audience in. It's unfortuante in my view that most people are looking to run real fast, hop, and shoot guns, but we all have different tastes, and I'm sure they are equally disappointed that I like to carry a glowing stick and swat people.

 

Promod 3 is where it's at for me right now.

 

In terms of the speed issue, if you ask me, let's look at the counters for force powers.

 

Push: coutner pull

Pull: counter push (I mean that you add you power here to have a defense against the other)

 

Jump: ah, well, you can push them and pull them i guess

Absorb: well, just let them sit there

Protect: drain (yes, this is very good move)

Mind Trick: sight, drain (yeah, i've been drained, a good move, leaves me helpless once i decide to come out.)

Lightning: absorb, drain

Drain: absorb

dark rage: just stay out of the way. but speed/ragers with guns were a mess, you needed to collect yourself for that. In promod, it's not much of a problem. once again, drain actually does help against rage if you hit them right. Or at least i thought it did.

 

Well, in the end, there's really only two things left that have virtually no effective counter. force sight has no counter... but who cares? I don't. WE have not had threads that start with "Ph33r the p0w3r of S1ght!"

 

Force speed however, really has no real counter. Push/Pull? Sure, but tell me, in a real, competitive game, when we're not dealing with a thousand bottomless pits, how often is push pull a counter that actually causes someone to stop running so fast? When a jumper gets push and pulled around, he wants to stop jumping. His lightning gets absorbed or he gets drained, he stops. mind trick stops when you attack. basically, the counters all stop each other. we're on the ground you push, but i have the pull power, so it is practically useless. we stop pushing.

 

What I'm saying is that yes, we can "stop" speed, or do something about it, but there's nothing to discourage it's use. You basically spam it until you're dead. maybe we should find something that would allow us to be the adrenaline fiends we are, but put something that would force us to think about its use.

 

JK1 had this same thing. Some powers you had to consider why you would do it. Why force jump so high, i'll hurt myself on the landing (yeah, that was a little silly though), why put power into blind when everyone was using force sight all day. Okay, JK1 was a little less deep in the force power department than JK2, but even JK2 suffers from this. we have a bunch of powers that we must consider it's use, but then speed is still a kind of "well, I should use this to go faster". speed is basically like just walking faster. So there is no 'counter'. You're doing the same thing in terms of stradegy to them as you would if they were running normal speed. it's more a power up or an item than a force power. Just a thought though.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Its true that there's generally not a lot of variation in 1.04. But the truly great players (ie those who beat me 100-0) use the bryar, bowcaster, disrupter etc just as much as the explosive weapons. Heck even I get about a 1/3 of my kills with those weapons.

[Moradivh]

Can't agree with you there Doc. The counter for speed is drain and grip, one after the other, though either will work by themselves. I learned this the hard way against Lazarous and Guardian Omega. Also, Protect will probably make you enough of a tank to kill a speeder since he has to close with you eventually, and mind trick will allow you to escape him till his force has run out.

 

I was starting to think force speed was "teh ****" after I pillaged 3 maps with the power. But it really eats up force fast, makes alot of noise and doesn't leave alot of power for jetpack pursuit over high walls or pulling gunners from the sky -- or at least not enough to keep them from rocketing away again immediately. In an open area a gunner can still pick you off quite easily. I usually dump speed and rely on mind trick in those situations. Gets me first place most of the time, but that's merely my style and my weakness. I know a few players with more wicked and varied tactics that rack up kills alot faster.

 

And Detritic: you seem absolutely determined that gunners of equal skill are inferior to saberists, that they have some sort of achilles heel that puts them in a distant 2nd place, and that pull is the end-all power. You're totally wrong. I think it's already been explained here so you obviously refuse to believe it. I won't bother trying again. Get more practice, or just let it go. It's hard enough to gather enthusiasm for a mod of an old, tired game without your cheap skepticism on these forums. If you don't like the mod, I honestly don't understand why you care so much to keep whining here.

 

In an ideal setting, I'd rather not see pushing/pulling used as much as it is. It's very easy for a good gunner to counter it, even when spammed by several Jedi, but it still feels "cheap." As a Jedi, after a million attempts at pulling gunners I really can't find much satisfaction from it, and less experienced gunners obviously hate the fear that, at any moment, they could be thrown around like a rag doll. This hurts gameplay. But it's an issue of the "feel" of each class when played, of the cosmetics, not of game balance itself.

 

If someone can come up with an easily implemented solution to push/pull that satisfies everyone, I'm sure Artifex is listening. But it's a complicated issue. And in the mean time the game's pretty close to being perfectly balanced, and "in my opinion" is far more entertaining than vanilla JO.

 

I'm starting to repeat myself now, so I'll quit rambling.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

The only solution to pull = crouch. Guess what THAT MAKES YOU A STATIONARY TARGET. Its dangerous enough for a gunner to be stationary now that they have to constantly be worried about mind trick users.

 

I have 6 months of exlusive gunning experience and I can think of a multitude of ways in which a saberist could easily kill a gunner without much risk. I know the weaknesses of a gunner.

 

Your tone implies youi think i'm some kind of newb who's only been playing the game a month. I've been playing this mod exclusively for 3 days (about 15 games per day) because people have been ranting that I should at least try it. I try it, find some problems and you don't want to hear it???

 

I'm sorry but if Artifex doesn't hear the full scope of views how is he supposed to make this wonderful mod that everyone is supposed to love? Promod has potential but its not there yet.

 

The only reason i'm a lone voice on these forums is because the majority of gunners have given up trying to reason and argue their opinions on these close-minded forums.

 

I didn't like the concept of Promod from the start, I give it 3 days of my time and I come to voice my opinions and I get shouted down? If you want to win the gunning community over you really need to come up with some better arguments.

[Toonces]

Even though I dissagree with many of your critisisms, I'm very intrested in what you have to say iQ so please continue

 

Lets just all be careful to not turn this into a flame war guys. All points of view should be heard because that's what's best for any mod.

 

I have an idea, it's a little off the topic of what you guys are discussing but here goes If you decide to release another version of Promod (not 3.1, I mean 4.0 or whatever) I think it might be a good idea to add a new weapon into the mix. Darth Reaper over on the general editing forum is making Flamethrower for his mod and I think it would be cool if you could add something simmilar to Promod. It would add a powerful short range area of effect weapon to a Gunners arsenal for them to use against the Jedi. You could either have it so it has it's own seprate ammo, or even better have it use the same fuel as the jetpack. I think it could be balanced so that a Gunner with lvl 4 gadgets would spawn with this weapon.

 

Anyway, I think it would be a cool addition, and add a little close range firepower for those emergency situations.

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

The only solution to pull = crouch. Guess what THAT MAKES YOU A STATIONARY TARGET. Its dangerous enough for a gunner to be stationary now that they have to constantly be worried about mind trick users.

 

I have 6 months of exlusive gunning experience and I can think of a multitude of ways in which a saberist could easily kill a gunner without much risk. I know the weaknesses of a gunner.

 

Your tone implies youi think i'm some kind of newb who's only been playing the game a month. I've been playing this mod exclusively for 3 days (about 15 games per day) because people have been ranting that I should at least try it. I try it, find some problems and you don't want to hear it???

 

I'm sorry but if Artifex doesn't hear the full scope of views how is he supposed to make this wonderful mod that everyone is supposed to love? Promod has potential but its not there yet.

 

The only reason i'm a lone voice on these forums is because the majority of gunners have given up trying to reason and argue their opinions on these close-minded forums.

 

I didn't like the concept of Promod from the start, I give it 3 days of my time and I come to voice my opinions and I get shouted down? If you want to win the gunning community over you really need to come up with some better arguments.

 

 

Detriq's right, the game still doesn't have that hook for hardcore FF saberists or gunners yet...I don't quite know how it can be achieved...as far as the Detriq being a noob thing, go see what he posted on the teamwarfare forums. It's a nice picture.

[adillon]

well, since toonces brought up ideas for a promod 4, i have something i've pondered over a while ago, and has recently been renewed in my mind. i was watching G4 tv the other night, and there was an extended review of metroid prime. it seems that samus aran has some pretty nifty gadgets, one of which looks like an infrared viewer (kind of like the predator's point of view from the movie of the same name).

 

just thinking a gadget like this might be a decent counter against mind trick. you can trick the mind, but not the piece of equipment.

 

just a thought ... i'm done now.

[Moradivh]

Ah, now I understand. You think that promod has potential! Wow! Better not let that leak out to those l33t gunners you hope to represent, as I'm sure many would never forgive you. Lots of closed-mindedness all around huh?

 

Oh but wait, you didn't like the concept of promod from the start? But it also has potential? Gah, I'm confused again. But hey, why not just list some suggestions? Oh no, you can't show us that much respect... you have to maintain that condescending, negative, borderline insulting tone (more than borderline to alot of otherwise intelligent folks like Rad Blackrose) in order to keep in favor with your equally closed-minded caste of vanilla gunners. Well, I don't think promod's success is entirely dependent on the happiness of your friends, so you'll understand if I have limited patience with your tone.

 

If you're trying to open our minds you badly need to work on your communication. I myself am really trying to listen, as I think you do have a great deal of experience and the patience to prove your theories. But you've been posting almost nothing but condescending whines about promod since before I even posted on these boards, with virtually no constructive suggestions to speak of. It's like you're simply trying to damn the mod and anyone foolish enough to like it. And now you wonder why you're not appreciated?

 

It's very noble of you to spend 3 days playing the mod just to self-justify your grouchy sarcasm here. I'm sure you went about it like you were living in the sewers for three weeks: plugging your eyes, ears and nose and enduring the excrutiating discomfort just so you can come back up and say "yeah, it stinks!" Well kudos to you, but I think that stink was on you before you went into the sewers. Figuratively speaking.

 

In any case, I'm not trying to shout anyone down. If my posts are getting too long or frequent let me know. And by all means keep "representing" Det. But you might want to reconsider who you need to fight, and who's actually trying to listen.

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by Moradivh

Ah, now I understand. You think that promod has potential! Wow! Better not let that leak out to those l33t gunners you hope to represent, as I'm sure many would never forgive you. Lots of closed-mindedness all around huh?

 

Oh but wait, you didn't like the concept of promod from the start? But it also has potential? Gah, I'm confused again. But hey, why not just list some suggestions? Oh no, you can't show us that much respect... you have to maintain that condescending, negative, borderline insulting tone (more than borderline to alot of otherwise intelligent folks like Rad Blackrose) in order to keep in favor with your equally closed-minded caste of vanilla gunners. Well, I don't think promod's success is entirely dependent on the happiness of your friends, so you'll understand if I have limited patience with your tone.

 

If you're trying to open our minds you badly need to work on your communication. I myself am really trying to listen, as I think you do have a great deal of experience and the patience to prove your theories. But you've been posting almost nothing but condescending whines about promod since before I even posted on these boards, with virtually no constructive suggestions to speak of. It's like you're simply trying to damn the mod and anyone foolish enough to like it. And now you wonder why you're not appreciated?

 

It's very noble of you to spend 3 days playing the mod just to self-justify your grouchy sarcasm here. I'm sure you went about it like you were living in the sewers for three weeks: plugging your eyes, ears and nose and enduring the excrutiating discomfort just so you can come back up and say "yeah, it stinks!" Well kudos to you, but I think that stink was on you before you went into the sewers. Figuratively speaking.

 

In any case, I'm not trying to shout anyone down. If my posts are getting too long or frequent let me know. And by all means keep "representing" Det. But you might want to reconsider who you need to fight, and who's actually trying to listen.

 

 

Ok, new rule: before you post on the forums you must be able to kill bots..that's it. Now go away.

[Moradivh]

Haha.

 

Not sure what the hell that meant, but ok!

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Moradivh, you've made it clear you think me arrogant and close-minded, since this is the internet there's no point me trying to argue my case other than to say its not my intention to come across this way.

 

I'm not a master of communication, its a fault i'm well aware of, I have a lot of difficulty getting thoughts from this grey matter thing into written or spoken word. But i'm doing my best, which evidently isn't enough.

 

Unfortunately I won't be able to argue my case through gameplay experience past Saturday since going back to 56k will leave only the option of CTF open to me, and trust me its suicidal going against saberists with 56k.

 

Break_dF, you are the master of short posts

[ryudom]

ah 56k, i've felt your pain...

[Moradivh]

Det, you probably aren't any more arrogant or closed-minded than I am. But you were getting a little annoying.

 

When I frequent forums at all I usually just lurk, saying nothing, because for the most part my attempts to communicate usually end in unpleasantness, or a confrontational stalemate at best. My opinions are too passionate to be taken seriously most of the time. I used to be known for "Moradin-like posts" that would go on and on about nothing. I know how frustrating it sometimes is to make yourself heard.

 

Anyways, I agree that push/pull in promod can be a little excessive. And I will test that one-hit-saber kill at 200/200. So keep posting your opinions, they're quite intelligent. But if you ARE looking for a positive reaction you have to try and be civil with the n00bish shmucks that are your opposition. Either that or become much better at writing propaganda than either of us currently are.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Heh, agreed.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

The only solution to pull = crouch. Guess what THAT MAKES YOU A STATIONARY TARGET. Its dangerous enough for a gunner to be stationary now that they have to constantly be worried about mind trick users.

 

I have 6 months of exlusive gunning experience and I can think of a multitude of ways in which a saberist could easily kill a gunner without much risk. I know the weaknesses of a gunner.

 

Your tone implies youi think i'm some kind of newb who's only been playing the game a month. I've been playing this mod exclusively for 3 days (about 15 games per day) because people have been ranting that I should at least try it. I try it, find some problems and you don't want to hear it???

 

I'm sorry but if Artifex doesn't hear the full scope of views how is he supposed to make this wonderful mod that everyone is supposed to love? Promod has potential but its not there yet.

 

The only reason i'm a lone voice on these forums is because the majority of gunners have given up trying to reason and argue their opinions on these close-minded forums.

 

I didn't like the concept of Promod from the start, I give it 3 days of my time and I come to voice my opinions and I get shouted down? If you want to win the gunning community over you really need to come up with some better arguments.

 

Don't underestimate crouching. I've killed Laz several times with that technique. Also, the DEMP2 is going to become known as the new anti-jedi weapon. With its alt-fire, it instantly hits, does splash damage, and does knockback. You can use that knockback to keep a jedi off you pretty effectively, especially on ns_streets. On top of that, it does double damage to shields. That means 1 shot = no shield for a jedi. You can pick them off with any other weapon at your leisure.

 

Whether others are listening to you or not; whether others dismiss your opinion or not: I am still listening. I always listen. Keep your comments coming.

[Wolf Devil]

To Detric: I did not mean my post insulting, I meant it in refference to the morons on the zone and those who enjoy JediPLUS so much that they'll insult it on JK2files.com, then download it and get on the zone havin as much fun with it as possible and those that think having all force and unlimited force rezevour (yes I know I spelt that wrong) etc etc.

 

To Moradivh and Detric: Ditto. I can name countless message boards, clans and communities that I have been baned for due to my... "abrasive" language . To my knowledge I'm not that close-minded, nor arrogant (why should I be arrogant? I suck at both vanilla AND ProMod!), I'm just a jerk and proud of it.

 

To Art: If you really ARE listening, can you pleeease have a talk with Lazarous? He keep chat killing people in the middle of a game, even when they've said they were gonna be AFK

[Jeff 42]

I've been playing ProMod for a few days now. I've played both as a saberist and a gunner, having much more success as a gunner (no surprise, since I shun saber-only play). It's been fun, but I've come to realize that I greatly prefer full-Force FFA with all weapons. In ProMod, I feel really limited and weak. It's annoying to get thrown all over the place as a gunner and to not be able to use any Force powers. Now, you might say that this creates balance. Well, I don't think normal JO has balance problems with saberists vs. gunners, because someone who insists on using only one weapon when there's a whole multitude available should expect to lose. I love the intense action of an FFA game where everyone's using all the powers at their disposal, sabers, guns, and Force. ProMod just doesn't compare for me.

 

Now, there's one thing ProMod definitely does better, and that's the lightsaber. I do feel that the saber system in 1.04 is quite flawed. With ProMod's sabers and everything else the same, all-weapon FFAs would be even more intense.

 

I understand why some people would prefer the new skill system of ProMod, but I wanted to get my two cents in anyway.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Hey ArtifeX!!! Any chance that your Official ProMod 3 server will eventually support ProMod 3???

 

 

Detritic. Your comments in the beginning WERE phrased a little harsh. But I think others got a little too defensive and jumped you unnecessarily. I agree with ArtifeX, and welcome your "lone voice".

 

You know how it is: ProMod comes out, gunner trys it, doesn't win as easily, comes back online, says ProMod sux, end of story.

 

We all want to believe that ProMod 3 has the power to make JO a viable game for the Jedi/Sith, who just wants a Saber and the Force. Nobody wants it to be anti-gunner. I think we just want the winners to not be the ones with the best weapons, but rather the ones who are best with their weapons.

 

I believe that there if you could bind a key in JO to a command that would give you unlimited health AND instantly kill your opponents, and ProMod came out and did away with that option, that there are people who would complain because they couldn't be GODS anymore. Some people (too many, in fact) don't care how they win just as long as they win. It's not about competition. It's just a 'Control' issue. I guess there are a lot of little 'potential Hitlers' out there -sadly...

 

On a different note:

I too feel Detritic's pain. It's one thing to by limited to a 56k modem connection (that is, when you can get 56k out of it -more often it's 28.8k!!!). It's another thing to go from a broadband connection BACK to dial up... I've been there. Now, after having a cable modem for going on two years, I think I'd rather just get rid of my computer than go back. There is no comparison. It totally changes how you use a computer.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Originally posted by Jeff 42

I've played both as a saberist and a gunner, having much more success as a gunner (I shun saber-only play). ,

 

I greatly prefer full-Force FFA with all weapons.

 

In ProMod, I feel really limited and weak.

 

It's annoying to get thrown all over the place and not be able to use any Force powers.

 

 

I don't think normal JO has balance problems , because someone only one weapon when there's a multitude available should expect to lose.

 

 

HA! HA! HA! I have to laugh at this! No Jeff, as a Gunner with full guns, and full Force going around kicking all the Saberist's asses I do doubt that YOU will 'see' any balance problems.

Why impose limitations when you can have it all???

Why not bring a bazooka to a boxing match? No, let's try that again: Why not bring a bazooka to a boxing match *AND* also get to be Mike Tyson???

 

The IDEA behind limitations is that nobody can have everything. There are pros and cons in life. If you get married, you get to have this one woman all to yourself, BUT you don't get to go around with all of the other women.

 

ProMod requires you to commit to something, and live with it -the good and the bad. You have to think about which weapons you want to use, which force powers you need -and to what degrees you need them. If your in the middle of a game, and you run out of ammo, or Force energy, you don't have the option to just grab the next thing and just keep blasting away. You must conserve your resources. You must make the most effective use of them as you can, or you are toast.

 

That is what challenging competitive gameplay is all about.

Winning requires strategy and skill. By comparison, vanilla JO requires very little of either of those. You can flame me if you want, but it's the truth. I could buy JO today, and in a weeks time be as good as 95% of the vanilla JO players. You won't find that in ProMod 3, because it is unlikely you will gain that much facillity over your weapons and resource conservation in that amount of time.

 

I can certainly understand why a lot of people won't like ProMod if it means having to think, and makes winning the game more difficult.

[Doctor Shaft]

Syfo Dyas is correct in that Pro Mod is more of a patient game. It's still fast, believe me. But it's a reserved game. The jedi can move real fast and leap tall buildings, they can even shoot the currently useless in promod lightning from their finger tips, but the those seemingly slugglish and helpless gunners have a huge trump on the saberists -- they have a much easier time hitting their targets. Whether it's close or long range, a gunner doesn't have to worry about how far they are, just as long as they know their shot will get their in time. Remember, this isn't half life community game, and the half life community is seing an increase in mods that feature gun recoil and accuracy based on movement, etc. JO is devoid of this, you run, slide, roll, fly, and cartwheel all you want... as long as your crosshair is on target, your shot will go there, unless it's a storm trooper rifle or the primary fire of a repeater.

 

Vanilla JO gave you everything you wanted, at all times. you can be the l33test saberist, the greatest force user AND have an uncanny knack for firing all weapons. To top it off, the force powers had very little in the ways of actually countering guns (push and pull only go so far in their 'countering' of guns), meaning that protect was limited, rage worked but you weren't really 'countering' the guns, just giving yourself some health and shielding. and the rest is, well, yeah. So this streamlined the stradegy. You bulk up your push/pull defences to avoid getting whored to death by other fast moving push pullers, forget lightsaber skills, you only need a few levels to get the swings you need, defense unneccessary. Run out of cool force abilities? Fire cannons. Run out of ammo? Just pull out lightsaber and use force powers to run and find more ammo.

 

Promod takes the two aspects and breaks them apart. No longer are you inhuman. You're either a good jedi or you're a good gunner. In betweens get even less than that. There are good hybrids out there, we just haven't seen all of them yet. They are a jack of all trades. saber and guns, but master of none, the way it should be. I'm sure all powerful yoda makes one kick ass jedi, but at the same time, I highly doubt that yoda is also extremely proficient at leaping around with heavy weaponry and firing with dead on, never failing accuracy. And if he is... well, it's a game. And Promod seeks to make the game more of a reserved chess match. Choose your weapon and use it well, not in large doses.

 

The gunner is not weak. he can devestate anyone easily at any time. The aim is in his favor. the distances are in his favor. And although the jetpack doesn't move him as quickly as force jump and speed does, he has a knack for getting around places that annoy the hell out of jedi. I swear, some of those good gunners seem to drench me with fire, then float away in such a way that jumping after them only drains my force powers and leaves me helpless.

 

The jedi is not too strong. all those powers, and a new force protect that actually proves useful, but you can't abuse your powers now. ONce that mana pool is drained, you're helpless. A gunner can smash you, another jedi can use the darkside and assault you, and the light jedi... well, they're better suited for defending themselves than anything else.

 

This game is great. The balance may not be perfect in all aspects, but it's very damn close so far. No one has really found an exploit. protect is useful if you plan to use it alone... otherwise forget it. Grip actually proves useful now with the lower cost, allowing dark siders to drain their jedi oppoentsn and then grip while their helpless, and also gives the gunners something to think about. The situations seem far more numerous in promod than vanilla, and if artifex rests up, feels good, has some fun with his game, and decides to continue, i can only see greater things coming.

[TK_Nutritious]

Curiousity finally won over me and I downloaded promod today. I can say that, as a gunner, I thoroughly enjoyed playing it. However, I'd have to disagree with a lot of your opinions here, I still think gunners have the advantage.

 

I don't find it difficult to beat saber users consitantly in this game. Even when they pull constantly I can usually keep their saber away long enough to finish them with a briar.

 

So overall I enjoy this more than base jk2, though I can't really see it being viable to play ctf on it unless some major changes are made.

[Jeff 42]

HA! HA! HA! I have to laugh at this! No Jeff, as a Gunner with full guns, and full Force going around kicking all the Saberist's asses I do doubt that YOU will 'see' any balance problems.

Why impose limitations when you can have it all???

Exactly. People who use no weapons other than the lightsaber in all-weapons FFA are imposing unnecessary limitations on themselves. They're unbalancing the game by giving people who use all their resources an advantage when they don't need to. I would much prefer to have everyone in the game making an effort to use all available resources than to "go around kicking all the Saberist's asses."

 

You must conserve your resources. You must make the most effective use of them as you can, or you are toast.

In all-weapons FFA, you must make the most effective use of your resources to win. It's just that you have a lot more resources. In any situation, you can implement a wide variety of weapons and Force powers, and so can all your opponents. At any moment, someone might switch from the saber to a missile launcher and blow you up--except if you're quick enough you can push the missile back in his face. It makes for a more exciting game.

 

That is what challenging competitive gameplay is all about.

Winning requires strategy and skill. By comparison, vanilla JO requires very little of either of those. You can flame me if you want, but it's the truth. I could buy JO today, and in a weeks time be as good as 95% of the vanilla JO players.

And I'm easily better than 95% of vanilla JO players. Some people are consistently at or near the tops of the scoreboards, and this doesn't happen by accident. Winning consistently in all-weapons FFA requires quick thinking, quick reflexes, good aim, and yes, often some strategy as well.

 

You won't find that in ProMod 3, because it is unlikely you will gain that much facillity over your weapons and resource conservation in that amount of time.

Well, in my first game of ProMod 3 I joined halfway through a 20-minute game and ending up winning (there were five people there longer than me). In maybe my fifth game I finished three points behind the legendary Lazarous. Both ProMod and regular JO require skill to do well. Personally, I find regular JO with all weapons and full Force to be more intense and more fun, but like I said, I understand why some people would prefer ProMod.

[Wolf Devil]

Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas

The IDEA behind limitations is that nobody can have everything. There are pros and cons in life. If you get married, you get to have this one woman all to yourself, BUT you don't get to go around with all of the other women.

 

That is a strange strange way to look at ProMod...

 

To Jeff: Lazarous isn't legendary, he's just got the reputation as a dick

[Doctor Shaft]

Wow, someone who thinks the gunne is still pretty far ahead against the saberist. Interesting.

 

Anyway Nutritious, in your opinion, what changes do you think should be implemented to tilt the scales a little bit back in favor. I actually agree that guns have an easier time being successful. My first experience with Promod as a gunner was pretty sucessful, and I'm pretty bad with guns. But the jetpack with guns and a level 4 st rifle gives me the kind of power I need.

 

A good saberist still does well though.

 

But yeah, what do you think should be done. I can't think of thing that can be done. Certainly don't want to slow gunners down more, or make guns weaker.