clonedjedi Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 well if they can build a whole civ entirely based on the knowledge of the wookies and chewie than think they can base it on a civ based on the tyoe and buildings and technology they would use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Ah, but at liest everyone knows what a Wookiee is. Do the same amount of people know what a E-Wing is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Vostok: Vong will be interesting to play with. That's what I'm trying to say. Why wouldn't they? Crazy_dog: But why not have a new civ?! It makes sense doesn't it: The original Rebel civ was a small resistance movement, and after the Battle of Endor and the capture of Coruscant an entirely new organisation was formed, the New Republic. Tactics, units, upgrades, buildings, everything is different. How can a simple upgrade (a RoN idea, if I'm not mistaken) reflect this when a new civ will work even better? The game-players will learn what an E-Wing is. Did most people know what Kashyyyk was when they first got GB? No. But through playing with the Wookiees, they learned. And clonedjedi wasn't talking about people knowing what things are. He was saying that it's entirely possible to create the NR, something which you didn't care to rebut. Does this mean you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well I think Corran Sec vrings up some great points and ideas and yes vong would be very interesting to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 If u notice, I never said anything about NR having not very much source material. I'm sure there is more than enough sources in the 20 or so novels featuring them. Thue upgrades is not just a RoN idea, but AoK and Civ idea as well. Not to mention Cossaks (but without upgrades in Cossaks). I still think an entirely new civ will be neccasary, for reasons stated by Fergie ( ) and myself. Gotta go to school now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Thanks, clonedjedi. Crazy_dog: Well, if you accept that it's possible to make them a new civ, why not have them as a new civ? You said in another thread that you can deal with all canon civs will the most prominent EU civs. Well, this is the most prominent EU civ, and it's different to the Rebellion. Upgrades isn't an AoK idea. In AoK, all the civs stayed to the same name, the same culture, the same everything. The Huns in the Dark Age were the Huns in the Imperial age. But anyway, that's not the point..... the point is that it's a bad idea. "I still think an entirely new civ will be neccasary" I thought you were disagreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well I've come to the conclusion I want no more civs. I'd much prefer to have the existing civs made more unique, so you really need different tactics when using each one. If LucasArts can deliver this we will have a much better game on our hands than many existing RTSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 geez, you 3 are jus arueing about civs all over the forums! "Begun the forum wars has." Anyways.... they should not make a Kamino civ, it would be pointless. They are already a part of the Republic civ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Originally posted by CorranSec Thanks, clonedjedi. "I still think an entirely new civ will be neccasary" I thought you were disagreeing with me. Typho. I have been thinking. If my civ requirements are met with at minimum all of them expept for Hutt Cartel and specifically underbalanced Ewoks (but they would be nice, and I would choose them over Vong or Hapans or whatever), I will be neutral over an NR civ (but so far only NR, not Imp Remnant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 If they only make one new civ for SWGB2, then it better be the Yuuzhan Vong. Then, they can make ome cool NJO maps. Use the Rebels as the "NR," and Empire as the "IR." Imagine, playing as the "NR" at the battle for Ithor and saving it? C'mon, what kind of Campaigns would a Hutt Cartel or pirate civ make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 SWPhreak, I must disagree. If they make one new (EU) civ, it should be the New Republic. They're the most important and most recognisable of all the EU civs. Where are the YV without them? Hutt Cartel and Smugglers Union campaign, coming right up. Note: I have absolutely no names so far. Don't blame me. Hutt Cartel: Diversifying Interests A Hutt Clan leader tells a younger Hutt to prove his/her/its worth by gaining control of the spice trade in a certain sector. The Hutt's mercenary army takes control of the ryll on a certain planet. The older Hutt is pleased, but tells the younger Hutt to seize a glitterstim trade route (ie smuggling route) in the same system. The younger Hutt's army captures some smuggling vessels. He learns of a new organisation, the Smugglers Union, which poses a threat to Hutt interests in the sector. The other couple of missions are battles with the Smugglers Union. It's a rough draft, I know..... Smugglers Union: Criminal Intent I haven't done much work on this one, but it's basically the Smugglers Union battling to gain a military foothold in the aforementioned sector, as well as a place on the spice trading market. Lots of battle with Hutts, as well as some Imperials (who try to enforce laws). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 What is the 'Battle of Ithor'? This is just one example of why the Yang Vang, NR and IR shouldn't be in SWGB2, BECUASE THE MAJORITY OF FANS NEITHOR KNOW NOR CARE ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok Well I've come to the conclusion I want no more civs. I'd much prefer to have the existing civs made more unique, so you really need different tactics when using each one. If LucasArts can deliver this we will have a much better game on our hands than many existing RTSs. I agree, if there were less civs or the same amount, but were unique and balanced, the game would be 100 times better than it is now. Not that its a bad a game, but just adding civs for the sake of eye candy doesn't make for a good game. And saying that it will be balanced does not make it a balanced game. To balance just 4-5 civs would be a feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Exactly, Sin. Not only will it be a better game than GB1, but probably a better game than any of the new RTS at the moment. Crazy Dog, I totally agree that if they fulfil all my wishes with the civs I would like, I don't care if they have a couple of EU civs. Windu, good point. Corran, those Smugglers and Hutts campaigns don't interest me that much, and I don't think you could make a whole two campaigns out of a "war" between the two. But if you think they would then good luck to you. I think if there are any EU civs at all, it will only be two at the most. So you'd have to chose between Hutts, Smugglers, Remnant, NR and Vong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 The Battle of Ithor is a battle where the Yuuzhan Vong attack Ithor and the NR had to defend it, but in the end Ithor........ was destroyed by a Vong weapon Anyways, not everyone has to know what the civs are. I'm sure there are people that don't know what a hutt is! They might think its that little building those people in Africa live in (Actually this guy did think that when i was talking about Hutts at school. It was hilarious.) If they dont know the civ, they dont have to play it. They have the other 8 original civs. I really hope this is a GB2, cuz if it isn't...... all these "discussions" over nothing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 1) It is GB2, so it's cool. 2) I think if the game designers had to chose between making 8 instantly recognisable civs, or eight instantly recognisable civs and four unrecognisable civs, they would chose the former. Less work for the same amount of marketability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 But they've already made the 8 civs. All they would need to do is make it look better, and make whatever little changes they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Well they are going to have to do a lot more than that. They won't simply be able to re-use existing stuff. I'm making the following assumptions about GB2 It will be 3-D It will use unique unit sets In that case they'll first have to create 3-D models of all the buildings and units for the original eight civs. Then, since they'll be using unique unit sets, they'll have to carefully balance in strengths and weaknesses with costs so that no civ is underpowered or overpowered. Well it sounds simple when I write it like that but that's pretty much what you'd have to do if you started a game from scratch anyway. So basically all the stuff they've made for GB1 is not going to help them make GB2. In other words, they haven't already made the 8 civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Then they should make half reconizable civs by all Star Wars fans (Emps, Rebs, and 2/3 more) and the other half reconizable be EU people (Yuuzhan Vong, and 1/2 more EU civs that would work out. Then we could all end this madness and be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 There's a difference between not knowing and not caring. Once again, I use AoM as an example. I'm sure its fans (let's take Sith, for example) didn't know who Aphrodite, Zeus, Set, Ra, Loki and Nepthys were before they started playing. Neither did they know what Hoplites, Cyclopes, Ulfsarks or Pharaohs were. But when people play, they learn about things, and I daresay care about them (seeing as they're playing a game with them). The same applies for the other "Age" games. To sum it all up: lack of public knowledge never stops a game. Vostok: I think that four EU civs would be possible, if not five. After all, there are definitely going to be the eight current canon civs, probably along with one or two new Ep III civs, so there'd double the amount of canon civs. I do think that I can make Smuggler and Hutt campaigns, and I'm working on them as we speak. So don't doubt me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Then they should make half reconizable civs by all Star Wars fans (Emps, Rebs, and 2/3 more) and the other half reconizable be EU people (Yuuzhan Vong, and 1/2 more EU civs that would work out. Then we could all end this madness and be happy. Ok, I'll chime in, last time, promise. Everytime I've popped into this forum to see if there are strategies I need to check out, I come back to this thread, and I keep up with the Vostok/Corran debate. I have to say I'm starting to have a problem with putting in a race like the Yuzzhan (sp?) Vong. 1) From what I've been gathering A LOT happens between the end of ROTJ and the appearance of this race. I'm not so sure you could make campaigns taht could do the story justice for people like me. And really, don't come back using my argument saying that they can. I doubt that. You guys have read prolly 12-15 books, keep up with forums, and read other sources of information in the EU. For you playing these races it would basically be eye candy. Your imagination coming to life. Seeing faces for the first time in a video game. Imagine someone not seeing star wars ever, and playing GB, there would be A LOT to take in to understand what the hell is going on. GB did not do the stories justice. I need to see what happens after ROTJ in a movie, and not in a rts game. It would ruin the plot for me and not do the story justice in the slightest. Imagine trying to cram 15 books worth of story line into 8-10 missions? You could focus the entire game on teh vong and not do their story justice. And I've mentioned before, I'm not about to read 10-15 books written within a decade in order to understand an RTS I picked up for 50 bucks. That is not going to happen with me and about 99% of the people LA needs to attract to make this a lucrative project. It's not that I don't like to read, but reading sci-fi fiction and getting sucked into a series is not everybody's cup of tea. I have to set aside time to even get a chance to play one or two games of RTS every few days. Let alone catch up with an imaginary universe. I'll wait for the movie to come out in order to catch up. I prolly know way more about star wars than I thought I'd ever care to. 2) Another problem I do have is that you guys are talking about adding like 4-8 new races all over these forums. In order to have 12-16 races, you'd have to have them all the same to balance them (with slight differences like GB). Or take years and years to balance it using multiple patches, which I doubt will sell the game especially with a new engine and style. It will get bad reviews deterring potential buyers. Balancing a game is hard. It took blizzard quite some time after the release of War3 and Starcraft to balance their RTS with their very very unique races. If 3 to 4 races gave them that much trouble, imagine 16? Not going to happen. And Blizzard takes pride in their RTS. LA does not. Well, that's not fair to say.... Their strong point is not RTS. What you guys seem to want in these discussions is another expansion for GB. One that would be a New Republic expansion. Not a GB2 worthy of new RTS that are coming out. We all agree that LA needs to add features and change the game completley in order to have a marketable game. (more than 250-300 people on the zone or some other multiplayer network). They need to shoot for at least 5-10 thousand on the zone to make this project worth it, in my opinion. And adding the vong and some other civs will not sell this game like you guys think it will. Like I said before GB is not popular and will not sell the way you guys would like to see its direction evolve into. Nobody but you would buy it with all the ideas I've seen on this forum. I'm just trying to be realistic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 As long as the Vong are in the game, I'm happy. The rest can be the old and boring civs. Actually, I rather have a RTS with Star Wars Ships using the Homeworld engine. That would kick ass.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak 1)As long as the Vong are in the game, I'm happy. The rest can be the old and boring civs. 2)Actually, I rather have a RTS with Star Wars Ships using the Homeworld engine. That would kick ass.... 1-Old?!Boring?! All civs are supposed to be great! 2-Let's keep that for another game then SWGB2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Sin, as always, your insight is refreshing. Don't stop adding your say to our debates. Something came to my attention the other day that I thought I could use for the no-EU argument. Recently there have been two major Lord of the Rings game releases (at least they are recent here in Australia). There was a Two Towers game, based on the movie, and a Fellowship of the Ring game, based on the books. Now the TT game really took off, while the FOTR game did not. Most reviews I read of the FOTR game said that apart from bad gameplay, what the hell was with releasing a game not based on the movies? Now yes, we all know LOTR is a novel. But it's incarnation as a movie is far more popular and recognisable than the books. People have been encouraged to read the books on the merits of the movies. So when a game looks different from the movie, it feels wierd, even if the content was originally a book. Film is the primary media form for ingestion of popular culture in our society. Anyway, I heard there was a LOTR RTS in production. Being a fan of LOTR (books and movies) and an RTS fan, I eagerly set my search engine going to give me some info. I was horrified to find out the game is going to be based on the books and not the movies. Now my knowledge and love of the LOTR books is second only to my knowledge and love of the Star Wars movies, but I can foresee this game bombing just as the FOTR game above did. My long-winded point is that for a game based on popular culture to be successful, it has to be based on the most prominent form of media in which that popular culture is presented. It is okay to have minor points from othe media included, but above all it should be recognisable in conjunction with the primary media. So occaisional forays into the EU are acceptable for a successful game. But basing as much as a third of the overall content on the books and not the movies is not going to work. And I should add I'm a Cultural Studies Major, with a well above average GPA, so I think I know what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Phreak - if you think more people would recognise a Vung Vang than a Hutt you're living in a dream world. Vostok - come back to the light my son, you are drifting off the path of goodness and beginning to come under the control of the dark side... A LOTR RTS? SSSSSWWWWWEEEEEEEEEETTTTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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