Official SWGB 2 GB.com Thread

[Admiral Vostok]

I think live-action cutscenes are better for a Star Wars game, but the biggest problem I can see is when you have characters from the movies in the cutscenes. Game makers rarely get the actual people to voice their characters, in fact the only people I know of to voice their characters have been Ahmed Best (every game that Jar Jar is in), Jake Lloyd (every game young Anakin is in - including GB1 which sounds like it was made after his voice broke), Andy Secombe (the few games Watto has appeared in) and Billy Dee Williams (guest star as Lando in Jedi Outcast). Now with Best and Secombe it isn't a problem, their characters are animated anyway. But Lloyd and Williams wouldn't have been able to play their characters in a live action deal. They have just aged too much, though I'm not sure when Jedi Outcast was set so Lando might have been the correct age. Anyway, there is not a chance Harrison Ford or Samuel L Jackson would lend their presences to a live-action cutscene, so we may have to make do with entirely CG cutscenes.

 

Corran - If Officers can use their ranged skills from anywhere, the presence of subordinates is probably not needed. I was thinking if you needed to be within a certain distance, it would be good because you could have multiple Officers leading multiple fronts. But if your Commander can just issue orders anywhere, the only advantage subordinates will lend will be to have multiple auras.

 

And about their "Leadership" (my word for the Officer's mana). What if you get something like 10 leadership points for Commanders (and it might go up with Tech Levels) and it costs one point to use a skill. However, the points do not automatically regenerate. So an Officer can only use about 10 skills in any one major conflict. However, he can return to the Command Center, and when garrissoned he can regenerate leadership slowly, representing him thinking about his tactics. Then again we might need some recharge time as well because we don't want him using ten skills at the same time...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Cutscenes-of course they are gonna be completely CGI.

If they ever convince Samuel L Jackson or Harrison Ford to voice, I'm gonna be the king of the world! Besides, the guy who made Mace Windu's voice in GB was allright. He got it pretty well.

[CorranSec]

The thing is, Vostok, I'm not actually planning to include many characters from the series. JK1's cutscenes had people specifically made up for the game, so it was okay. By the same token, I don't think I'm actually going to have Luke or the Emperor giving you the mission- it'll all be either made-up characters, or characters not actually seen (ie EU). If a movie character must be included (and I would like to see them at least in cameos), I think that long shots (camera work so you don't actually see the face) or voice-overs could work.

The Anakin in GB1 was actually Jake Lloyd? Sheesh... it doesn't sound much like him. I knew he did the voice for other games like Star Wars Racer, and that actually sounded like him, but I didn't know that he did the GB voice.

 

With subordinate officers, you could not only have several auras active at once, but several other skills (eg. three area-effect skills and one aura, or whatever).

 

I'd prefer the "Leadership" to actually work like mana in WC3. Different skills take different amounts, and it recharges at a medium rate. However, the Leadership could still increase with tech levels.

[Admiral Vostok]

No way Corran. You need movie characters in cutscenes. It is a game based on the movies afterall. I won't go through the EU argument with you in this thread as well. Just know that I am firmly against not having movie characters brief you or be in cutscenes. Everyone that briefed you in GB1 was from the movies.

 

Yes that is Jake Lloyd. But like I said, my theory as to why it sounds nothing like him is because his voice has broken since the movie. Looks like his voice-providing days are over...

 

I don't like the Commaders being in any way similar to heroes in WC3, because it will just look like a reused idea. I want SWGB2 to have a very different style to existing RTS, to make it a standout game.

 

Also, I've been thinking. Won't taking Commanders to battle make them very hard to keep alive? Let's look at the current game and the way medics work. Personally I always target enemy medics first so they aren't around to heal enemy troopers. Medics are weak so they die quickly. The same thing will happen to Officers, especially if they have aura skills. The enemy will send everything he's got at the weak Commander, so his aura won't be there to advantage the surrounding troops. How do you propose to counter this extreme weakness, Corran?

[CorranSec]

Not everyone who briefed you in GB1 was a main character in the movies. Mara Jade and Wedge could easily be played by new actors, and all of the storyline's I've been thinking of do not involve the main SW characters. Although I admit, I've only been thinking of the Galactic Civil War and the Hutt Cartel/Smugglers Union one...

It just seems absurd to me that everything must revolve around the main characters. I mean, the whole Rebel campaign in GB1 is ridiculous to my eyes. When is it set? During the Civil War, and after the first Death Star... but is it after Hoth? What?

The storyline I'm thinking of is set between Episodes IV and V, and doesn't have the trouble of trying to mold it around the main characters. Did JK1 use main characters? No. Did JK2? Sure, Lando... for a couple of missions.

And by the way, this game isn't based on the movies. It's based on Star Wars. The campaigns aren't the movies. They're battles that take place in the Star Wars universe.

 

We don't want GB2 to have a different 'style.' That's like turning it into an epic-scale RTS, or something like that. The mana idea is tried-and-tested, and will never get old.

 

Most people wouldn't take a Commander into battle alone, and there's generally places for him to hide on the battlefield (pop him in a troop carrier or some such). If someone does charge him in with everyone else, he has every right to die (if the opponent decides to focus on him).

[Admiral Vostok]

1. Nope. You need characters from the movies or else it loses relevance. Not a single piece of EU does not have at least one movie character in it. Are you just going to make up an entire new set of characters for every civ? No. Okay, I forgot about Mara Jade, but everyone else was from the movies. Star Wars is the movies above all, and you need some grounding in the movies.

 

2. Well I suppose mana is the obvious choice, but I'd be disappointed if SWGB2 didn't break any new ground. Mana might be tried and tested, but it is too similar to previous games. People don't want the same stuff in a new game. It has been done before. At least it should only be rechargeable when inside the command center.

 

3. Even if you put him in an AT-AT, unless you are 100% sure your attack will succeed you are putting you Commander in great danger. Let's say your attack is stopped by your enemy. He sends out a heap of airspeeders to get your AT-ATs. Unless you have an absurd number like 10 (I want multiple pop-costs to avoid entire having more than 10 heavy assault mechs, which to be realisic should not be incredibly numerous), you're Commander's ride is dead, and he has to run around. Your enemy is going to assassinate him as soon as he is visible, since the loss of your Commander is somewhat bad. I just can't see it working well. That's why I think we should return to multiple Officers being buildable. Perhaps each has a mana system like Jedi, to use on pre-defined skills. But having a single vulnerable Commander is probably not a great idea.

[CorranSec]

1. Okay, I'll have references from the movies. But I don't want to have to structure campaigns around movie characters. It's terrible to do and terrible to see.

My Galactic Civil War campaign follows the progress of several Empire and Rebel characters which I have made up, but which gamers will eventually get to know and love. I hope.

It's like the X-Wing trilogy. Sure, Wedge is a movie character... but a very minor one. Sure, there are some main movie characters in there...... but they're cameos or less. But they're still great books, and they show that there are other things in life than Luke, Han and Leia.

 

2. Oh, come on. GB2 will be breaking plenty of new ground, and be fantastic enough without introducing doubtful concepts like these. At least don't make them go back to the command center. Your commander would have to be running from the battle lines back to your command center every couple of minutes. Not fun.

WC3's mana system wasn't breaking new ground, but people love it nonetheless. It works, it's fun, and not too infuriating.

 

3. Exactly! That's the point! The Field Officer is in great danger!

Not many people would be as single-minded as you and focus their attacks on the officer. Most people would be too caught up in the battle to see where the officer is, especially if he's in a vehicle. Most officers can survive long enough to run away, most people who are so horribly worried about their officers will have something standing by to whisk him away. Most people wouldn't put their Officer at the front of a doomed frontal assault. Most people would try to keep their officer out of trouble, and use a Subordinate if auras are wanted for a doomed assault. Most people could keep the battle going long enough for the Officer to escape.

Ah! We've spent so much time going through this officer stuff, and you want to return to the drudgery of building officers?

Come back to the light!

[Admiral Vostok]

1. Ideally you would want not a main character but a leader of the Rebellion/Empire/other to brief you. Such as General Dodonna, General Madine, Mace Windu, Captain Panaka, etc. You support EU and I do not, so we're bound to disagree about this "relevance to the movies" idea.

 

2. But that is the point. You can't afford to have your commander run from the battle lines so you may actually have to be sparing with your skills. Which requires... *gasp*... Strategy!

 

3. Well personally, even if I'm in the middle of a battle, if I see an Air Cruiser I send all my anti-air to take it out. If I see a Jedi Master, I send EVERYONE to take him out. If you want to stay alive longer you have to do these things. The same would happen for a Commander, because they are so important to the enemy. Commanders don't pose as much of a threat to you as Air Cruisers and Jedi Masters, but they are just as important as a target, and to deprive your enemy of their commander is a blow most people would be eager to deal.

[CorranSec]

1. The people I've come up with aren't EU. I made them up. They're leaders of the Rebellion and Empire, and all the ones you just mentioned are main characters, Windu and Panaka especially. But trying to weave a campaign around them simply for the sake of having them there is foolish. It's better to start with a clean slate and all-new characters.

 

2. Strategy is not running back to base every couple of minutes to grab a recharge. Strategy is carefully planning when you're going to use your powers, the time it takes for the officer's natural mana recharge, and so on.

 

3. Okay. Look at all the rest of my points.

[Admiral Vostok]

1. The fact remains that myself and hopefully other people would probably prefer to see CG main characters interacting with us than live-action made-up characters interacting with us. We really need some more opinions on this issue...

 

2. I don't really care how this works, I'm just saying be wary of making it too similar to WC3 heroes. People will think it is a rip-off and not be impressed.

 

3. Not really sure what you mean. I disagree that not many people will be as single-minded as me if that's what you mean. Honestly, can you really tell me you would not break away from a battle to take a split second to kill one of the enemy's most important and non-replaceable units? If you don't you're missing out on a great opportunity to diminish the enemy's strength. It's really just intelligent gaming.

[CorranSec]

1. I personally doubt that anyone will be interacting with 'us.' And the fact remains that myself and hopefully other people will like a good story with good live-action characters more than a mediocre story (considering it needs to be written around the main characters) with CG, badly-voiced characters that come nowhere near the true characters and are thus a waste of time and space.

 

2. I doubt it will be considered a rip-off. AoM's special abilities have a charge bar. Is it considered a rip-off? No.

 

3.

*Most people would be too caught up in the battle to see where the officer is, especially if he's in a vehicle.

*Most officers can survive long enough to run away, most people who are so horribly worried about their officers will have something standing by to whisk him away.

*Most people wouldn't put their Officer at the front of a doomed frontal assault.

*Most people would try to keep their officer out of trouble, and use a Subordinate if auras are wanted for a doomed assault. *Most people could keep the battle going long enough for the Officer to escape.

*If the defender's firepower is so great as to annihilate the Field Officer in a split second without suffering greatly themselves, the Field Officer has every right to be annihiliated.

[Admiral Vostok]

1. Still, to include battles like Hoth and Endor, which will need to be included, you'd need to have some main character in the briefings. I suppose it could be done without main characters, but I don't see that CG characters like in Jedi Outcast are all that bad as to avoid them.

 

2. As I said I don't really care.

 

3.

*Most people would be too caught up in the battle to see where the officer is, especially if he's in a vehicle.

But the fact that there is an Officer running around is part of the battle, so if they are so caught up they will notice him.

*Most officers can survive long enough to run away, most people who are so horribly worried about their officers will have something standing by to whisk him away.

If they can survive long enough to run away I suppose that is fair enough.

*Most people wouldn't put their Officer at the front of a doomed frontal assault.

But what if they didn't think it was doomed until they were in it?

*Most people would try to keep their officer out of trouble, and use a Subordinate if auras are wanted for a doomed assault.

See above about "doomed assaults". As I see it they are not predictable, and if they are why would you bother? At any rate, I'm talking about an attack that doesn't turn out how you planned.

*Most people could keep the battle going long enough for the Officer to escape.

Which doesn't matter if the enemy sees him.

*If the defender's firepower is so great as to annihilate the Field Officer in a split second without suffering greatly themselves, the Field Officer has every right to be annihiliated.

Well a single blast from an Assault Mech should kill him. If not he is probably a bit over powered. At any rate, two blasts would definitely kill him. Surely you could afford to send one Assault Mech on an assassination mission while the rest of your force continues the battle?

[lukeiamyourdad]

1-Good Story>Bad movie Based story

 

2-It will depend on what it looks like...

 

3-We don't even know how muchthese special skills(except aura) will affect the course of the battle. We should rethink about it a bit before moving on.

[Admiral Vostok]

Good Story>Bad movie Based story

Well I won't disagree with that but a good movie based story > good non-movie based story, and who says you can't have a good movie based story? The campaigns in GB1 weren't bad plot-wise (except for the existence of Echuu Shen Jon in the Rebel campaign), and they were based on and starred movie characters.

[AU_Skythe]

I Think it would be cool, if this got released just before episode 3.

Like with the expansion, just before the movie came out.

Now in the game, it would have units from All 6 movies and Civs from all 6 movies. Since every civ in the game plays an important role in at least 1 movie (apart from wookies, but i speculate they may be in episode 3)... They should do all the movie civs. Meanwhile they develop an expansion. It would include all the civs from the books and stuff.. i think that will be cool because then people like me who havent really read any of the SW books can get to know all the plots and stuff behind the story.

 

Along with the extra civs from the time after the movies (ie vong new republic etc) they could add all the requested units that everyone seems to be demanding (or the scenario designers at least)..

[swphreak]

I jus thought of something, what if GB2 isn't what we think it will be? Wha if instead of gound stuff, it's battes in space?

[CorranSec]

Vostok:

1.

The storylines of GB aren't actually all that great, especially considering they tried to work main characters into them, giving them a 'forced' kind of feel. They also seem unfinished. I mean, when the hell did they all happen?

Hoth and Endor don't need to be included. If they are, they'd probably be bonus, secret and just-for-fun missions, and thus probably wouldn't have cutscenes. And hey- we could have really terrible parodies of the main characters in them too, just for fun.

The CG characters are simply a terrible letdown after the live-action of JK1.

 

2. Okay.

 

3.

*The Officer wouldn't actually be in the front lines blasting away. He'd probably be running around, using his area-effect and target skills and lending aid in the form of his aura. You'd probably get him out of there when his Leadership is used up anyway.

*Well, if someone put all their points into HP the Officer could probably survive a squadron of X-Wings launching an attack run. But anyway, he'll probably be able to run away.

*If the defender had such a cunning plan as to totally and utterly crush the attacker, the Officer deserves to die.

*If you are terribly concerned, have an Assault Transport with some escorts standing by to whisk him away.

*The enemy might see him, but they would probably be so caught up with the actual battle (ie killing things that are trying ot kill you) as to let him get away.

*You're thinking in GB1 terms. Try to avoid that. And anyway, something as powerful as an AT-AT should hardly be spared, especially when its firepower could be much better used wiping out masses of troopers.

 

SWPhreak: I doubt that's going to happen. There's no way the people at LA would be foolish enough to totally change the genre of the game.

[darthfergie]

dang...I really wish I had no life so I could post that much, stupid AP classes overloading me tho...so I can't call you all stupid the way I want to or tear posts apart and then watch others look at the torn up post and say...but it was so artfully done...I like it better...and then I say the same thing all over again because obviously somebody missed my arguements...(j/k)

 

I guess I'll jump in even though I have no idea what we're talking about here or how we got here...BUT ANYWAY!

 

-------------------------------------------

The storylines of GB aren't actually all that great, especially considering they tried to work main characters into them, giving them a 'forced' kind of feel. They also seem unfinished. I mean, when the hell did they all happen?

 

no kidding. The storylines were TERRIBLE in GB. That's why I like the open-ended campaign with say...20-30 territories on a big map in which you battle and each time you battle there it has a couple hundred scenrios possible and randomizes them and you get a quick in-game breifing, then battle. It would mean creating a really good random scenario maker, but it's been done for other types of games such as FPSs and such. So I think it's a nice possibility to play around with.

 

The Officer wouldn't actually be in the front lines blasting away. He'd probably be running around, using his area-effect and target skills and lending aid in the form of his aura. You'd probably get him out of there when his Leadership is used up anyway.

 

Filling the sorcerer role...that means mucho micromanagement moving him around...and with mucho micromanagement comes lower pop limits and smaller squads...and hopefully a pause function in which you can enter orders for those chaotic moments...(pausing is not really necessary here like it is in some other RTSs tho)

-------------------------------------------

 

yay, you get an HP and ATK/DEF buffed up leader...what now? Do you risk him on the front as a killer? If he dies...you'll get your butt kicked...do you want to take that risk? I mean this isn't like WCIII where reserecting a general is kinda accepted as a cultic type thing so pretty normalish in that realm. But in Star Wars the only reserecting you could do is if you cloned somebody...and the only ones with access to clones are the Empire and the Old Republic. It really isn't worth it at all...it'd be better to use him for the sorcerer like moral boosts [rant]don't you DARE get technical about moral on me...there will be no moral meter, but a moral boost can be to a stat such as ATK for a temporary time and considering it is a military officer, it would be best to call them moral boosts rather than Strength increases or Speed increases that can be used by sorcerers[/rant]

 

BTW, SWPhreak...I would send LucasArts an e-mail every day of the week telling them that I'm sorry I had ever critisized them for at least a month and as long as 10 years...depending on how good the game is...utter flop--->revolutionary game that has years of gameplay (in other words...my perfect game)

[Admiral Vostok]

1. I don't wish to discuss this further, it's turning into "I want movie characters" "I don't want movie characters" "I want movie characters" "I don't want movie characters" so let's just leave it. The fact is any cutscene is better than no cutscenes.

 

3. I'd prefer having multiple subordinates, that you can replace if they die, who have the same types of powers as you're suggesting, and not have a commanding officer as a usable unit. So you get to pick the skills your officers use, and you could technically have lots, but skills' effects wouldn't be cumulative so having multiple officers isn't always better.

 

Fergie - I resent you suggesting we have no lives. You're a moderator so you should try to set a good example for others rather than act in a way that gets most people banned.

[AU_Skythe]

has anyone ever played the lord of the rings 2 for PS2. Thats what i mean by the single player, stuff like that. You play out big battles as whatever side, and when you finish a level you see the scene from the movie corresponding with that level you have just played. In other words warcraft III kind of campainges mixed in with lord of the rings would be wicked. And At least a campainge to every movie.

 

Who knows starwarsphreak may be right. Maybe they are developing a space RTS game, and because its a RTS game, like GB, its a "GB Related Project".

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

Star Wars is alot about space battles. Lucasarts owe us a decent SW Space RTS. With PC's having high specs it is possible to do a decent RTS space game where we can actually take part in ground battles to win maps etc.

 

If SWGB 2 went along this route, I think it would be a killer game and appeal to the masses.

 

DMUK

[AU_Skythe]

But how would a Space RTS with land battles work? you have space stages and switch between? I think if you want to see the next SW RTS before 2010 i wouldnt want them deleloping such a high spec game! Bsides not everyone has ADSL or cable etc

[CorranSec]

Fergie:

"Open-ended game?" Do you have any concept of how this is going to work? As you said yourself, it's never been implemented in an RTS. It'll end up having no storyline at all, and will probably just look like a bunch of battle missions. And I know how all you want to do is battle, but I'd rather have a storyline.

Please, don't overreact. Having a single 'sorcerer' doesn't mean a lower pop cap and smaller squads. There's one unit with these skills, and they won't require much micro at all. I'm not turning this into a Craft, don't you worry.

Nobody would actually send their Field Officer into the front lines to blast away at the enemy. He'd hang back, providing support by means of auras, and damaging the enemy/buffing his allies with area-effect and targeted skills.

You will still have these "morale boosts," even though that's a terrible name for them (stick with 'auras,' if you please).

 

Skythe: Yeah, the way they've done that transition with TTT is great. However, we're not making a SW fighting game along the movie storyline. We're making an RTS based on SW. But pre and post-mission cutscenes are a good idea.

 

I'm not sure about the Space RTS with land battles. It probably wouldn't have land battles (seeing as it's a space RTS). However, that's really not the topic under discussion here. And you didn't need four reposts to get your message across.

 

(joking... I know, it was probably a mistake.)

 

Vostok:

1. I really hoped that I could convince you. Well, I'll give it one last shot.

To include movie characters, we either follow the movie storyline (which is impossible), follow a book storyline (which is improbable), or make up a storyline (which is difficult). Why do any of those when we can simply make something all-new up? It'll still be Star Wars, it'll still be the Rebels and the Empire (or whatever), it just won't be Luke, Han and Leia.

[Admiral Vostok]

Okay Corran, how's this then:

I rather move towards a StarCraft apporach, where the briefings aren't really cutscenes, and they have really cool cutscenes every few levels. Though I'm not sure how you could do the briefings, but I think they should remain fairly simple, maybe even stay as they are in SWGB1. But the cutscenes themselves wouldn't focus on characters. The StarCraft cutscenes didn't, you hardly see any major characters in them (at least the original game, not Brood War). They'd focus on action, like seeing some Y-Wings do a bombing run on an Imperial Installation or something. So you'd have live action characters for someone like the Imperial Commander whose base get's bombed, but the central characters to the Star Wars saga wouldn't be needed. In the game itself it would be cool to have units for heroes like they do at the moment, even if they are voiced by other people, but those people don't appear in the cutscenes.

 

Now back to the Officers:

I still think I'd rather have several buildable and ultimately expendable officers with adequate powers than one really good officer with better powers. You'd still get to chose their abilities, but instead of just one guy getting them several guys can get them.

[CorranSec]

I'm actually thinking of a WarCraft 3 approach, where there are pre- and post-mission in-game cutscenes (which basically serve as briefings). There would also but the StarCrafty cutscenes, but I'd rather live acting than CG. I don't think the cutscenes should have to focus on action. What if the cutscene is based on a speeder chase? A political debate? A trademeet?

 

Now back to the Officers:

The subordinates will be buildable. Not entirely expendable (they're fairly expensive), but you can live on if they die. But there still is the central Field Officer.