Official SWGB 2 GB.com Thread

[CorranSec]

Customisable Stats: I do follow your argument. I said "So what?" because those particular points weren't relevant.

I know what power gamers are, but as I've said before, there's no key to an uber-powerful officer. You could make a deadly sniper officer, or a speedy armoured officer, or a high-HP officer, and they'd all be equally good.

 

What is the point of giving him an attack? So that he can survive if found by a wandering scout. If you just put points into armour and HP, he'll be slow and can't kill a rat.

 

Jedi Officers: Gameplay does suffer. Perfect realism is always the antithesis of perfect gameplay, especially in the SW universe (considering what impact the Force would have on video games).

 

I want to limit the number of Jedi Masters for gameplay reasons. I never even considered realism. Does it decrease fun? No, 10 JMs will be quite fun, and you can get hundreds of JKs if you have the money.

 

Your ideas stuff around with the Officer balance I've constructed. It's just too complex, it doesn't work with the point system, and it's realism>gameplay thinking.

 

Bounty Hunters: Aye aye. They could have varied abilities- some could be snipers, others could be silent melee hunters, and so on. I don't think many of them would have stealth, but some would (such as the aforementioned silent melee hunters). Assassinating an Officer would cost more than any other target, so it wouldn't happen all that often. And most people would probably put their Officer in a remarkably safe location. For a Bounty Hunter to take down an Officer without surpassing his limits would be quite astounding- have you read the short story "No Disintegrations, Please" in Tales of the Empire? It's basically like that.......

 

On a kind-of-related side note: I'm not opposed to rock-paper-scissors. I just think Bounty Hunters should be special.

[Admiral Vostok]

Customisable stats: But no-one would use an Officer on their own. They will most likely always be surrounded by an army. As such, they don't need an attack to defend themselves, they have the rest of the army.

 

Okay, so you could stick a few points in speed to. You'll have an extremely survivable officer, just what is needed to do well in the game. You could give him a good attack, by why would you when he'll be surrounded by an army anyway and it's more important for him not to be killed than to do any killing himself?

 

If you don't think this argument is relevant you are blind to the truth about customisable stats: they can and will be exploited. Even me, who is so anti-Power Gamer as to sometimes only use canon units in SWGB1, would beef up my Officer with mega defense so he is hard to kill.

 

Jedi Officers:

Gameplay does suffer. Perfect realism is always the antithesis of perfect gameplay

How can that be true? So we'd have to have a totally unrealistic game for it to be good? That is complete rubbish! Here's some examples where both realism and gameplay work well together:

Gates are weaker than walls in real life so give them less HP in the game.

Ships go in the water so make them unable to go on land in the game.

AT-ATs can shoot air so make them able to shoot air in the game.

What you are saying makes no sense at all. A good game will have both realism and gameplay. You have yet to point out how my idea would ruin gameplay, you've merely said "it is realistic therefore it must be bad in a game." You going to need some better arguments to convince me, Corran.

 

Bounty Hunters: Good idea, making Officer assassinations cost more. That works well.

 

However your reference to the Bounty Hunter story confuses me... that would make your idea somewhat realistic! By your logic, something as realistic as that would suck in a game!

[joesdomain]

Such as: (Just examples)

 

Ion Cannon or Ewok Village that makes ewoks for Rebel Alliance

Landing Platform for Galactic Empire

Geonosian Factory for joint civilization Confederacy/Geonosians

Cloning Factory for Galactic Republic

Gungan Temple for Gungans

Naboo Building for the Naboo

Wookie Building for the Wookies

Trade Federation Droid Factory for Trade Federation

 

Put a option in Advance Options menu that allows you to combine civilizations so you make units for more than one civilization.

(e.g. Trade Federation and Confederacy/Geonosians or Royal Naboo and Gungans or Wookies and Rebel Alliance, etc.)

 

I think it would look cool also if you split the Geonosians into it's own civilization. And add Kaminos civilization and Mon Calamari civilization.

[swphreak]

Well, the extra buildings would be nice but not really needed.

 

 

Originally said by joesdomain

I think it would look cool also if you split the Geonosians into it's own civilization. And add Kaminos civilization and Mon Calamari civilization.

 

. . . . oh no.... not again....... quick somebody restrain me!

 

Mon Cals are not ground warriors, they are mostly Space Fighters and besides, they're part of the Rebel Alliance.

 

Geonosians ARE basically the Confederacy.

 

The Kaminoans are not Warriors either. They just clone for money. Besides, again, they are apart of the Republic.

[joesdomain]

What I mean is to include civilizations that were in the movies such as Geonosians, Gungans, Kaminoians, Naboo, Trade Federation, Confedracy, Rebel Alliance, Empire, Ewoks, Wookies, Mon Calamari, Hutts, etc. I might be missing some. Maybe add a few EU civilizations to make the EU fans happy like Imperial Remanent, New Republic, Vong, Black Sun, etc. I suppose if they had enough space on Cd's they could add a few secret or hidden civilizations like Tuskens or Jawas. I know alot of people might not like that idea since they don't have aircraft, heavy weapons, or ships. Just an idea!

 

Here is another idea: I think the toy box units in the scenerio editor in the sequel would be buildable. At least the ones that aren't heros. (eg. b-wings, Imperial Lamda Class shuttle, imperial royal guards, etc.). It just makes sense since there was more than one of those in the movies.

[CorranSec]

Customisable stats: Okay, but what if you're sending your officer to a battle where his support is suddenly needed? He could be ambushed on the way, and all stats could help him in their own way.

The more points in speed, the less points in HP or armour, so a gamer will have to make a choice. You could give him a good attack so that if he is ambushed, he'll at least have a slight chance of killing a few enemies.

How can you exploit something that's balanced? As I've said before, even if you want an uber-survivable officer, there are many ways to do it. Attack will let the FO kill his attackers, Range will let him stay away from the main battle, Armour will stop some damage, HP will let him survive for longer, and Speed will let him run away.

 

Those examples of realism aren't what I'm referring to as 'perfect realism.' And we don't have to have a totally unrealistic game, but the whole fact is that it is a game, and not a movie, so we have to sacrifice many things for the sake of gameplay.

I mean, come on. How realistic is it that a massive (yet completely empty) fortress could be constructed by little R2s in a minute or two, but then easily knocked down by a bunch of (unmanned) bombers which hover in place and drop glowing green balls of death? How realistic is it that people in AoM can't ride Pegasii to battle, and Bellorophon (I think that's the pegasus-riding Hero) can't fly?

 

And as for your GB1 examples.

Gates are weaker than walls in real life so give them less HP in the game: This is not necessarily true in SW, and it's a fairly minor point anyway, seeing as there are a number of realism flaws with walls- they can't be scaled, gates can't be opened by a saboteur, and so on.

Ships go in the water so make them unable to go on land in the game: Okay. Do you expect ships to be able to fly? This is an obvious tenet of any RTS game, so it's a pretty bad example.

AT-ATs can shoot air so make them able to shoot air in the game: Yes, but snowspeeders can't use tow cables to easily take down the AT-ATs (because that would damage gameplay).

 

What you are saying makes no sense at all. A good game will have good gameplay, supported by an ample degree of realism, but be willing to sacrficie realism for good gameplay.

My idea is perfectly fine, and I've balanced it up, while your idea screws around with this balance and has no benefit over mine other than realism.

 

Bounty Hunters: Ah, but for it to be truly realistic, one highly-paid BH would be able to take down an AT-AT or two, several AT-STs, a couple of dozen troopers and, in fact, destroy an entire Imperial base by himself. See what I mean about realism?

[swphreak]

Are you being sarcastic about the BHs?

 

A bounty unter would get clobbered by an AT-AT. Could probably take on an AT-ST and win.... yes it could take on a squad of Stormies, but I doubt it would win against a base.....

[Admiral Vostok]

Joe: As much as I dislike EU I would welcome the Vong, the Remnant and the New Republic any day over Geonosians, Trandoshans and Kaminoans. They just aren't important enough to be given their own fully fledged civ.

 

 

Corran:

Customisable stats: Yes, ideally that is how they should be used, by I guarantee you they will not. I'd be willing to sacrifice my Officer's range and attack and only have him move around when escorted by a bodyguard if he got high armour and HP. So would most other people. I might be more willing to let him fight if he was replaceable, but as he is not, his defense is far more impostant than any offensive abilities. Your example is bad anyway: any person who sends his all-important, non-replaceable Field Officer wandering around by himself as a prime target for an ambush deserves to lose. No-one would let an officer wander around unguarded in real life, neither should they in a game.

 

Realism vs Gameplay: No matter what you say, since the beginning of Computer Games programmers have endevoured to make their games more realistic. Where that interferes incredibly with gameplay, an alternate type of semi-reality needs to be used.

Gates: Yes they are weaker than walls, that's why Qui-Gon shoves his saber through the doors on the Federation Battleship rather than cut through a nearby wall. And other aspects of walls was not the issue, so don't change the subject.

Ships: I don't see how the fact that ships are in heaps of RTS is irrelevant. If anything it's more-so. Ships go in water. That is realistic, but does not make bad gameplay.

AT-ATs: Once again, you change the subject. I was talking about AT-ATs, not snowspeeders.

Realism is a very important part of a game. Where it makes BAD gameplay, it is worked around, but otherwise maintaining realism is number one on a developers list.

 

Jedi Officers: Still waiting for an example of how my idea is bad gameplay-wise.

 

Bounty Hunters: Yeah what Phreak said.

[swphreak]

[bIG GASP!]

 

Joe: As much as I dislike EU I would welcome the Vong, the Remnant and the New Republic any day over Geonosians, Trandoshans and Kaminoans. They just aren't important enough to be given their own fully fledged civ.

 

Do my ears decieve me!

 

Bounty Hunters: Yeah what Phreak said.

 

We've agreed to something!

 

and here's something for realism versus gameplay:

 

No Realism=Bad Gameplay.

 

gotta have the realism for good gameplay

[Admiral Vostok]

LOL, good point. No realism = bad gameplay, what do you say to that Corran?

 

And no your ears do not decieve you. The fact is the game is about significant armies in the history of the Galaxy. Kaminoans and Geonosians are not significant armies. In fact, they have less army than the Naboo, who according to Panaka "have no army." Including them makes no sense. If more civs must be included, I'd rather see EU civs that are significant armies than canon-based civs that are not.

[joesdomain]

I think the same way but I put it "No Star Wars realism or lack of star wars realism equals bad gameplay."

 

On another note:

 

I think more unit types for each civilization would work for a sequel. I just thought it would be cool to choose from many types of bounty hunters, aircraft, ships, troopers, etc.

 

-add more cool toy box units from the star wars movies like different types of droids, structures, buildings

Because I would like to make a good scenario of Tipoca City, Cloud City, Mos Eisley, Mos Espa, Courscant, etc. GB1 scenario units were cool but few.

 

I would also like to see more heros in GB2. Here is a list of heros they didn't add that I want to see:

Admiral Ackbar, Wedge Antilles, Mon Mothma, General Madine, General Rieekan, Kyle Katarn, Prince Xizor, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Admiral Piett, Captain Needa, Admiral Ozzel, General Veers(not Colonel Veers) incorrect in GB1, Admiral Daala, Captain Paeellon, etc.

I know I missed some. I would like to see more of Jabba's goons from ROTJ in the hero area or at least toy box units.

 

-Unlimited Farms and aquaharvestors

-add more Star Wars animals that haven't been put in the game yet for predators or food

-command centers and fortresses shoots lasers and anti-air

missles

-Laser turrents shoot laser and anti-air missles (no anti-air turrents in GB2)

-Add different types of monuments to choose from for each civilization

[Admiral Vostok]

Personally I think we should get rid of monuments. They are just left-over from AoK and have no significance to Star Wars.

[CorranSec]

Vostok:

Stats- Okay, so perhaps people will be stupid and put 0 points into both Attack and Range, because they'd rather have a pacifist general. But still, as I've said several times, you must decide how to spread points between Melee Armour, Ranged Armour, HP and Speed.

Realism vs Gameplay- Game programmers have tried to make games. If they're basing it on something (eg medieval army combat or SW capital ships) they endeavour to make seem real in addition to being a great game. Whenever realism starts to interfere with gameplay (which is bound to happen when people start to pursue realism above all else- what would movie characters be like with realism>gameplay thinking!!), elements of realism must be sacrificed for a good game.

Gates: Did you read what I said? A terribly minor point, and one that is countered by a dozen other points about walls in general.

Ships: Oh, come on. That's a basic tenet of sea units- they go in the sea. However, some (realism>gameplay fans) might say that SW ships could hover over land, and seeing as that interferes with gameplay, we restrict it.

AT-ATs: Okay, so they can shoot air, to some degree. But my snowspeeder example counters that.

Realism is an important part of a game, but probably least so in an RTS. You seek realism in shooters, or RPGs, where you want the guns to look like guns and magic to work like magic. In an RTS, people generally disregard the nitty-gritty of realism and are pleased to see that it's following the scaffolding- such as "Yay, there are tanks and planes in a modern RTS," and "Ooh, Jedi with lightsabers in a SW RTS."

No dev would put realism as a number one. That's just incredibly foolish. Realism number 1? Okay, any modern RTS game could be won with the push of a key- just nuke the enemy country. Or any SW RTS would be totally unbalanced with a bunch of Jedi heroes running around and using the Force to 'kick nine kinds of ass in a five-ass town', as a friend of mine would say.

 

Phreak: Did I ever say "No Realism?" No realism would be Jedi not having lightsabers, aircraft not flying and the game simply not being SW. I'm disregarding some minor and mostly theoretical realism points in favour of better balance in gameplay. Quite simple really.

 

Everybody: There is Star Wars realism. There are Jedi with lightsabers, stormtroopers with blasters, X-Wings which fly around and all that. However, certain Field Officers who happen to be Jedi (and have lightsabers for the sake of realism) aren't very good in battle. Does this destroy SW realism? If so, why doesn't the pegasus-riding hero destroy mythical realism?

[swphreak]

Ships can also go into space..... ios that a glitch or did they purposly put it in? Because whenever I play against people and put my ships in space to make a bombardment run on their base, theyu get made and say ships cant go into space.

[joesdomain]

I think there Galactic Battlegrounds 2 should have twice the number of buildable units per civilization than Galactic Battlegrounds 1.

 

I am also in favor of seeing Jedi/Sith dueling battles that are more realistic. I would like to see them jumping around, or blocking, etc. GB 1 looked fake. Jedi and Sith were sitting there hitting themselves with lightsabres.

[Admiral Vostok]

Stats - Those people aren't stupid, they are playing to win. You can not just assume people will use game elements in a realistic way. If an unrealistic combination of stats gives them an edge, they will use it.

 

Realism - C+C Generals is being revered by critics for it's realism. I think the developers value realism more than you think.

 

Jedi Officers - I see you're still avoiding pointing out how my idea is bad for gameplay.

[Darth Windu]

Confederacy of Independent Systems-

Unique Abilities-

Only ½ numbers of units count towards population cap

Can automatically see allied LOS

Workers work 10% faster

Workers gain basic training automatically

Workers gain +2 attack vs troops and buildings, +4 v turrets

Can produce Nexu, Reek, and Acklay at Animal Nursery

Mechs reload time ¾ of normal

+25% normal Nova trading load

Weapons Colour = Purple

Unique Building-

 

Infantry-

Geonosian Worker

Super Battle Droid

Repeater Super Battle Droid

Rifle Super Battle Droid

Geonosian Warrior

Mechs-

Super Battle Droid on Confederacy Speeder Bike

Dwarf Spider Droid

Homing Spider Droid

MTT

Hail Droid

Geonosian Canon

Aircraft-

Geonosian Fighter  Adv Geonosian Fighter

Geonosian Bomber  Adv Geonosian Bomber

Confederacy Transport  Hvy Confederacy Transport

Ships-

Confederacy Frigate

Confederacy Cruiser

Confederacy Transport

 

Galactic Empire-

Unique Abilities-

Air units cost 5% less than normal

Trading fee costs 15% less than normal

Upgrades for mech units cost 10% less than normal

Weapons Colour = Green

Team Bonus-

Fortresses are built 10% faster

Mech units built 10% faster

Unique Building-

Starfleet uplink

Infantry-

Worker

Medic

Stormtrooper

Repeater Stormtrooper

Rifle Stormtrooper

Dewback Cavalry

Mechs-

Scout-trooper on Imperial Speeder Bike

Probot

AT-PT

AT-ST

AT-AT

Aircraft-

TIE Fighter  TIE Interceptor

TIE Bomber  Adv TIE Bomber

Imperial Shuttle  Imperial Lander

Ships-

Imperial Frigate

Imperial Cruiser

Imperial Transport

 

Galactic Republic-

Unique Abilities-

Medic moves and heals 20% faster than normal

Command center holds +1 more units than normal

All Infantry units and Jedi Starfighter have +6 Line-of-Sight

Food at the animal nursery generated 20% faster

All Aircraft units have 15% more hitpoints than normal

Jedi Starfighter has shields

Weapons Colour = Blue

Team Bonus-

Medic heals 50% faster

Jedi are 10% faster

Fortresses heal garrisoned units 33% faster

Unique Building-

Clone Factory - creates clone of every non-Jedi infantry produced

Infantry-

Clone Combat Engineer (Worker)

Clone Medic

Clone Trooper

Repeater Clone Trooper

Rifle Clone Trooper

Jedi Padawan  Jedi Knight  Elite Jedi Knight  Jedi Master

Mechs-

Clone Trooper on Imperial Speeder Bike

AT-XT

AT-TE

SPHA-T

Aircraft-

Jedi Starfighter  Adv Jedi Starfighter

Gunship  Adv Gunship

Dropship  Adv Dropship

Ships-

Republic Frigate

Republic Cruiser

Republic Transport

 

Rebel Alliance-

Unique Abilities-

Aircraft are 10% faster than normal

Workers collect food 5% faster (including farms)

Farms have +35 food

Farm workers carry +1

Fortresses gain +1 range and LOS

All aircraft have shields (except Airspeeder)

Weapons Colour = Red

Unique Building-

Ion Cannon

Infantry-

R2 Droid Worker

Rebel Trooper

Rebel Repeater Trooper

Rebel Rifle Trooper

Tauntaun Cavalry

Bothan Spy

Mechs-

Rebel Trooper on Swoop Bike

Aircraft-

X-wing  A-wing

Y-wing  B-wing

Airspeeder  Armoured Airspeeder

Light Transport  Medium Transport

Ships-

Rebel Frigate

Rebel Cruiser

Rebel Transport

 

Naboo-

Unique Abilities-

Building hitpoints 10% higher than normal

All Infantry units are 10% faster than normal

Mechs are 15% faster than normal

Workers collect nova and ore 5% faster than normal

All aircraft have shields and are 5% faster than normal

Worker can heal all infantry units

All ships can submerge

All ships cost 20% less and build 20% faster than normal

Weapons Colour = Green (Royal Naboo), Blue (Gungan)

Team Bonus-

Shipyards cost 25% less than normal

Unique Building-

Royal Canon

Infantry-

Gungan Worker

Gungan Trooper

Naboo Repeater Trooper

Naboo Rifle Trooper

Gungan Kaduu Cavalry

Mechs-

Naboo Trooper on Swoop Bike

Flash Speeder

Gian Speeder

Gungan Artillery

Fambaa Shield Generator

Aircraft-

N-1 Fighter  Adv N-1 Fighter

N-2 Bomber  Adv N-2 Bomber

Naboo Transport  Adv Naboo Transport

Ships-

Gungan Bongo Frigate

Gungan Cruiser

Gungan Transport

 

Trade Federation-

Unique Abilities-

No need population cap

Worker can heal all units (no medic)

Workers collect ore 50% faster than normal

Workers collect carbon 20% slower than normal

All research costs 10% less than normal

No resource trading fee

All military units 10% cheaper than normal

All military units built 10% faster than normal

Fortresses gain +3 Anti-Air range

Weapons Colour = Red

Unique Building-

Droid Control Facility

Infantry-

Battle Droid

Repeater Battle Droid

Rifle Battle Droid

Grapple Droid

Mechs-

STAP

Droideka

AAT

MTT

Aircraft-

Droid Starfighter  Adv Droid Starfighter

Droid Bomber  Adv Droid Bomber

Federation Lander  Adv Federation Lander

Ships-

Droid Frigate

Droid Cruiser

Droid Transport

 

Wookiee’s-

Unique Abilities-

All infantry can move through forests

Workers collect carbon +5% faster

Workers automatically gain basic training

All aircraft have shields

Weapons Colour = Red

Team Bonus-

Fortresses gain +5 LOS and 10% more hitpoints than normal

Troopers gain +2 LOS

Unique Building-

 

Infantry-

Wookiee Worker

Wookiee Medic

Wookiee Trooper

Wookiee Repeater Trooper

Wookiee Rifle Trooper

Wookiee Berserker

Mechs-

 

Aircraft-

Wookiee Fighter  Adv Wookiee Fighter

Wookiee Bomber  Adv Wookiee Bomber

Wookiee Transport  Adv Wookiee Transport

Ships-

Wookiee Frigate

Wookiee Cruiser

Wookiee Transport

 

Units-

Infantry- (Trooper Recruit  Trooper  Hvy Trooper Elite Trooper)

Confederacy – speed = 2, firepower = 4, armour = 3

Empire – speed = 3, firepower = 3, armour = 3

Federation – speed = 5, firepower = 3, armour = 1

Rebels – speed = 4, firepower = 3, armour = 2

Republic – speed = 1, firepower = 5, armour = 3

Naboo – speed = 3, firepower = 3, armour = 3

Wookiee’s – speed = 2, firepower = 3, armour = 4

Trooper – good all-round unit, fairly quick, good firepower, very mobile

Repeater Trooper – infantry support unit, better firepower but less hp’s than standard trooper, can only fire when deployed

Rifle Trooper – missile unit, good vs Mechs and aircraft

Jedi Master – fast, strong, powerful melee unit with cloaking but very expensive

Wookiee Berserker – same stats as GB

Geonosian Warrior – fast, hovercraft melee unit

Naboo Royal Crusader – fast, melee cavalry unit

Federation Grapple Droid – cheap melee unit

Empire Dewback Cavalry – slightly slower, and more hp’s, than Royal Crusader

Rebel Tauntaun Cavalry – similar to Royal Crusader but faster and less armour

Gungan Kaduu Cavalry – similar to Tauntaun Cavalry

Rebel Bothan Spy – cloaked spy which gives you enemy information (eg if placed in enemy barracks, you see what infantry units are being built or queued, if in command center you can see all enemy units LOS etc)

Mechs- (Light Mech  Mech  Hvy Mech)

AT-AT – slow, heavily armoured unit with 2 heavy (anti-building/mech/aircraft)

and 2 light (anti-infantry/aircraft) lasers mounted in the head, can only fire from front, can carry 10 troops, can fire at aircraft

AT-ST – fairly fast, medium armoured unit with 2 medium lasters, can only fire from front, no troop carry ability good all-round

AT-PT – fast, light armoured unit with 2 light lasers, excellent v infantry

Probot – hovercraft unit, long LOS, 1 light laser for self-defence, weak

Speeder Bikes – fast, cheap scout unit with no armour and 1 light laser

STAP – slower than Speeder Bikes but with no armour and 2 light lasers

AT-TE – armour, speed, cost etc in-between AT-AT and AT-ST with 4 light lasers (2 front, two back) for all-round fire, plus 1 heavy laser in top turret, can carry 5 troops, can fire at aircraft

AT-XT – all-round unit, s2 medium lasers, stats slightly less than AT-ST

SPHA-T – very large, very slow, heavily armoured artillery, good range, 1 very heavy laser, 6 light lasers (2 on each side, 1 at front, 1 at back)

Hailfire Droid – fast, agile missile unit, good vs Mechs and aircraft

Homing Spider Droid – all-round unit similar to AT-XT (eg 2 medium lasers)

Dwarf Spider Droid – stats similar to AT-PT

MTT – large, very heavily armoured, 2 light lasers at front, can carry 20 troops

ATT – well armoured, 2 light lasers at front, 1 heavy laser in turret, stats in- between AT-ST and AT-TE, can fire at aircraft

Droideka – fast shielded anti-infantry, better than AT-PT, 2 light lasers at front

Gian Speeder – fast, medium armour, 2 light laser in front, 2 medium lasers in turret, can fire at aircraft

Flash Speeder – very fast, light armour, 2 light lasers in turret, anti-infantry unit

Fambaa Shield Generator – large, slow, unarmed mobile shield generator

Gungan Artillery – cheap, fast short range artillery, large splash damage radius

Geonosian Canon – similar to Gungan Artillery but longer range, slightly less firepower

Aircraft- (handled like RoN, aircraft at airbase which is then ordered to attack)

Fighters – generic air units, good vs infantry and workers, fast, agile excellent vs air, good vs light Mechs and light ships / transports

Bombers – generic air units, good v buildings, heavy Mechs, heavy ships, infantry concentrations

Transport – slow, lightly armoured, lumbering transport, can carry 2 heavy Mechs (AT-AT, AT-TE), 4 medium Mechs (AAT, AT- XT), 6 light Mechs (AT-PT, Droideka) or 8 troops

Republic Gunship – fast, armoured, agile aircraft, can carry 4 troops only, good vs Mechs and troops, 2 rocket launchers, 2 medium lasers

Republic Dropship – fast, agile, armoured but unarmed assault transport, can carry 1 heavy Mechs (AT-TE), 2 medium Mechs (AT-XT) or 3 light Mechs

Rebel Airspeeder – fast, agile, heavily armoured, unshielded anti-mech unit

Ships- (Light Ship  Ship  Hvy Ship)

Frigate – general purpose anti-ship, anti-air warship

Cruiser – long range coastal bombardment warship

Transport – naval transport, can carry double that of the air transport

Buildings-

Barracks (G) – builds all infantry units

Mech Factory (G) – builds all mech units

Airbase – (G) builds all aircraft units and stores Fighters & Bombers

Research Center (G) – all technology researched here

Animal Nursery (G) – adds food periodically to your total when animals inside

Command Center (G) – builds workers & medics, increase population cap

Fortress (G) – large defensive structure, can garrison allied units

Turret (G) – small anti-ground, anti-air base defence structure

Shield Generator (G) – creates a shield around all buildings & units near it

Starfleet uplink (GE) – gives access to Star Destroyer bombardment, must recharge

Clone Factory (GR) – creates clone of every infantry unit produced

Royal Canon (N) – long range base-defence weapon, very good vs large targets, powerful but slow rate of fire

Droid Control Center (TF) – gives all combat Droids greater speed and rate-of-fire for a limited time within a certain radius, must recharge

Ion Canon (RA) – disables all enemy units and causes aircraft to crash within a certain radius, must recharge

 

 

NOTE: as you can still there are still some areas that need to be filled in so some feedback and/or suggestions would be appreciated. Also, i know there are only 7 civs, i merger the Royal Naboo and Gungans. For the 8th im thinking of Hutt's.

 

PS: this looks FAR better in Microsft Word so if you want a copy, just ask.

[CorranSec]

Stats - Okay, but they still must make the choice between Melee Armour, Ranged Armour, HP and Speed, even if they want an unrealistic general. Just as I said before.

 

Realism - Would C&C Generals be revered if it was a really pathetic game in terms of actually being a game, but was perfectly real? No. Reviewers will say "This is a wonderful game, with really unique gameplay, lots of great units, and nice realism, considering that there's no actual 'real life' stuff to base it on."

 

Jedi Officers- The normal officers are fine! Your idea (which I can't totally remember, so I'd appreciate you reposting it) basically splits Officers down the middle for no purpose other than realism. You can't stand the fact that Jedi can't be overpowered, so you try to disturb the balance I've created. Please don't.

 

Edit- Windu: I'd appreciate it if I could see that big discourse in Word format. I'm sure it's a lot easier to digest. Thanks in advance!

[swphreak]

no not hutts. They arn't THAT big, well they are, but you know what I mean. I'd go with the Vong over the Hutts or any other EU civ any day.

 

That Cloning facility was a good idea

[joesdomain]

That sounds like a cool list darth windu. Sounds like what I want in GB2. Although, a couple additional civilizations wouldn't hurt that weren't in GB1 and CC. My only comment would be to have Jedi Padawans, Jedi Knights, and Jedi Masters that are buildable at the same time. Also, have Sith Appreciate, Sith Knights, and Sith masters that are buildable at the same time. No Tech Levels! Unlimited Farms and Aquaharvestors instead of refreshing them.

[Darth Windu]

Yeah sorry for those who found that post difficult to read, just a result of going from Word to board.

 

Anyway for those who would like a word copy, please send me a private message with your email address and ill get a copy sent out to you.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu: I think the list is too similar to SWGB1. I'd like to see unique unit sets for SWGB2, in which case the game will play very differently. So copying techs and abilities over from SWGB1 won't necessarily work well.

 

 

Corran:

Stats: But pretty soon after they'd played the game a few times, they will figure out the best combination to have. Once people know this combination, everyone will have it. The reason I don't like it is because I'm a player of tabletop wargames like Warhammer and I've seen situations like the one you're describing abused time and time again. The abuse will be no different in a computer game.

 

Realism: I don't see why you can't have good realism AND good gameplay as C+C Generals appears to have.

 

Jedi Officers: Actually my way is just as balanced as yours. The reason I've split it into Normals and Jedis is too avoid the messiness, non-realism and annoying gameplay of customisable stats. In your idea you have to change the stats around to represent either a Jedi or a Normal. From there you can choose their Force Powers and Officer Powers. Mine is pretty much exactly the same except instead of specifying all their stats you just select either Jedi or Non-Jedi. Everything's nice and neat. In fact, if anything my way is more balanced because it is very hard to balance up every possible stat combination against every other possible stat combination. My way you just need to balance Officer Powers with Force powers and you are set.

Sure, your way might create some interesting stat-combinations, but the fact that mine doesn't allow it is not going to make the entire game totally uninteresting. I'd like to have dozens of Officer Powers to choose from, potentially creating some still-very-interesting characters without the un-necessary stat alterations.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - as you may or may not have noticed with my idea, all mechs are unique and the individual civs get different bonus' to their aircraft, ships and troops with various UU and unique buildings thrown in.

 

The reason you will see similar bonus' as there was in GB1 is to maintain the 'feel' of the civ. These bonus' help to create the civ's character, and should hence be left fairly much alone, although some have been changed, deleted and added. If you had taken a closer look at my idea, you would've seen that it is significantly different from GB1.

[swphreak]

Windu, your idea is much easier to read in word. Also, I'm adding a civ..... guess which one....... the Yuuzhan Vong!

 

I'm gonna try to see if it can be done. Using all of my knowledge and sources, I will see what I can put for it

[CorranSec]

Windu: Even with the aid of Word, the reasoning behind your choices are still quite hard to see for me.

As Vostok said, why are huge elements of this game generic? Why not have nearly totally unique unit sets? Why have silly little things like GB1's civ bonuses to generate realism (eg all Imp fighters cheaper) when you can have uniqueness (eg TIEs being cheap, weak and mass-produced, while X-Wings are more expensive and stronger).

It just seems so much like GB1, with a few bits of uniqueness. For example, there still seems to be a Strike Mech, Mech Destroyer, Assault Mech and Scout, while Air is still lying around being ignored as a true class of its own.

And here's a major gripe- you've completely ignored air. Air and Jedi are the most important parts of anything Star Wars-related, and although I'll come to your Jedi faults later, your ignorance of what could be done to make air so much better astonishes me.

I mean, to begin with, you've used upgrades (TIE Fighter>TIE Interceptor) when it's viable, more entertaining, and more real to have completely independent units (TIE Fighter is the Imp space superiority fighter while TIE Interceptor is the Imp 'speedy' fighter).

And there isn't even a hint of medium or capital-class ships, which are just as essential as fighter-class ships in anything SW.

As for Jedi... well, you've done it again. It would be a great idea to have both Knights and Masters (see the Snipers thread for all ideas surrounding this topic), but instead you've just made one continuous upgrade, and thrown in some bizarre "Elite Jedi Knight" thing to boot.

Plus, there's no hint of any kind of special powers for any units, and everybody knows these are fun and exciting additions to any game. Things like force powers and fighter secondaries have been discussed in other threads, and would be great additions to GB2- yet your idea shows no signs of anything like this.

 

Basically, the only way to sum this up is to say that as of now, although it shows signs of vague potential, it looks more like an expansion to GB1 than an actual new, improved GB2.