lukeiamyourdad Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Of course not! Jedi and Sith are the most powerful beings in the galaxy and only ONE civs has them. Overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 gameplay > realism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I don't see how Gameplay>Realism supports your argument, Windu, because only giving Jedi to the Republic makes very crap gameplay. Who said the Republic had to have a melee unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I agree with most everything that has been said (apart from that said by Windu). But anyway, Windu- the very concept of every civ having a melee UU is a generic idea, and we're trying to avoid things like that. The Republic may have a variety of totally unique units which have melee attacks. That's not what we're talking about right now, but if you have any ideas, feel free to discuss them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Well, since we're looking for something new to discuss, I'd like to bring up my old idea of trenches that I remembered while writing a Windu-like document. Basically I think to include the construction of trenches would be good for two major reasons: 1 - it helps recreate a battle like Hoth more accurately and is entirely suited to Star Wars. 2 - To my knowledge no other RTS game has done it which seems a bit odd, but the more original ideas for SWGB2 the better. At the moment I can only see it as something the Rebel Alliance can build, perhaps instead of walls but probably in addition to walls. I think they'd work like this: Trooper-sized units have their movement greatly reduced when crossing them, mechs are slowed down only slightly. You can "garrison" Troopers in the trench, and they fire out and gain protection from all ground-based attacks. Air are obviously not effected by trenches, and entrenched Troopers gain no extra protection from Air attacks. Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Corran - why should everyone except for the Republic get melee units except for the Republic - the civ with the best melee warriors! (BTW you do realise generic jedi would be melee right?) In respect to the trenches idea, i like it. What im thinking is that it could be a feature of standard infantry much like the 'deploy' feature of the allied GI's in Red Alert 2, except that in this case they build themselves a personal trench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Hmm...hmm...everyone gets jedi or dark jedi. PERIOD!!!!!!! nah not personnal trench. Too much micro for one unit... I'm suggesting we can only garrisson troopers in certain places of the trench, maybe every 2 ''trench part'' or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 um...no. Have you ever played Red Alert 2? All you do is select the unit, then press 'D' (the hotkey for deploying) and the GI deploys into a fortified position. In that deployed mode the GI has more hp's, heavier firepower and cannot be run over, only thing is that he cant move. What im suggesting is that we use the same concept here, except that the art change from a fortified position to a trench. How is that too much micro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hi there everyone. I was wondering if it would be possible for someone (or a group) to come up with a basis for the usage of ships in SWGB2 for addition to my ideas for SWGB2, as i have no idea. Thanks in advance. Vostok - when you finish your idea for SWGB2, would it be possible for me to get a copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I'm working ships into my document, thinking about what types of ships would best compliment the civ's fighting style. I will probably put my document on the net when I'm done (which might be a while yet), rather than emailing it to anyone who wants to have a look. Oh and Windu you can't attempt my Trivia test more than once. It just wouldn't be sporting. But you got 20 on your second attempt if you wanted to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Windu- I was talking about your constantly talking about Jedi for the Republic only thing... I dunno about that thing about GI. This is a trench not a fortified positions not a hole where only one unit sits. It's a trench. It would be better if it was actually a trench not a simple hole. Ships-Waiting for your stuff Vostok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Yeah I'd prefer it not to work like the GI. It was too static. It would be better if it worked like this: You "garrison" a trooper inside a trench by right-clicking as per normal. Once inside, however, the Trooper can move anywhere inside the trench. The Trooper gains the protection of the trench, and can still be moved around inside the trench, but he will not exit the trench until you "ungarrison" him. It would be like if you stuck a trooper on a very thin piece of land surrounded by water. He can run anywhere on the land but can not go over the water, just like he can't exit the trench. Also he gets really good armour protection while in the trench, perhaps equivalent armour to the current pummels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I like the trenches idea, but would they be strong or weak against mechs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesdomain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I like the trench idea too! Then I could make a decent Battle of Hoth that looks real! I also think the scenario editor should have more choices of mountains, animals, plants, trees, and just more structures in general. Plus, more buildings so we can more precise and accurate battles from the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hi everybody. Sorry I haven't been here- I had a mountain of work to get through this week, not to mention a couple of rehearsals. But anyway, I'm back. Rejoice. I'm assuming the Jedi discussion is over..... if it's not, I'd like to officially declare it 'over.' The majority of civs get some kind of Force user (we have to allow for people like the Vong and the Hutt Cartel). Period. I really like the buildable trenches idea. You could put a whole bunch of troopers and even perhaps light mechs in there, with some turrets to cover them- and then there's walls too. It brings up some great defensive options. I don't think they should be all that good against really big mechs (ie AT-ATs), who can probably destroy parts of the trench itself, either knocking a whole bunch of troops out or just killing them. Troopers and light mechs, however, will have a rather hard time. What's this trivia test thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 ya, Assualt Mechs better be able to break the trenches in half, well, not literally, but a couple of A Mechs should be able to make a gap. 1 A Mech shouldn't be able too. Troopers and Light mechs should have a hard time The trivia is Admiral V's. It is a really good one.... keep in mind I know more EU than the movies.... I'm gonna try to make my own when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Oh, I think one AT-AT sized mech should do quite a bit of damage. Just the same as a current solo Assault Mech can blow up some walls, but will still end up getting destroyed, so can a solo big mech take out some trench, but will be overwhelmed by all the defenders (hopefully, there will be defenders in/around a trench). With the trench idea and some other new stuff, defending a base will hopefully turn base combat into something really fun, rather than just "I have towers that kill everything within 100m" or "Oh no, baddies, send out my people to kill them, bring them back inside." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Just one thing. Could we be able to garrisson grenade troopers in the trench? And should air still be strong against troopers in the trench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Well, there might not be 'grenade troopers' as such, but you should be able to garrison any kind of small unit in the trench. However, those units with indirect fire (such as grenade troopers) should have penalties when in trenches (because they don't have a line to their target). And yes, air units will not be affected by trenches, seeing as they can just shoot down from above. So basically, the counter for trenches is air. And big, big mechs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Trenches - frankly i think this idea of building trenches and then garrisoning troops in it seems far too micro-intensive, and a RA2 GI-style deploy would work much better. Having said that troops in a trench should be better protected against ALL enemy units, including air, but have the disadvantage of being static and the possiblility of being blown to pieces by assault mechs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 The problem with that Windu is that is is not a trench. It is a guy sitting in the middle of a bunch of sandbags. Trenchs would be pretty much like walls, only you can garrison troopers in them. You can destroy trenchs just like you can destroy walls. Air and heavy mechs would be good against them. I really don't see where the micro comes in at all. I don't think indirect-fire troops should have a penalty. The advantage of their weapons in real life are that they don't need line of sight. So no-one has a disadvantage in a trench. Yes, those who haven't tried my trivia, do it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Vostok - i think you missed the point i was trying to make about the deploy idea. If you have played RA2, you will know that GI's can deploy into their own fortified position which makes them more difficult to kill. What im suggesting is we use the same CONCEPT for SWGB2 in that standard troopers could deploy into their own personal trench (trench = hole in the ground for those who didnt know) which gives them greater defensive abilities but means they cant move until they are undeployed. I think this would work much better than a network you have to build, then garrison, then move troops around in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Well moving troops around inside might be a bit complex. However, I think the trenchs should have to be built, and they can still exist with no troopers inside. So you build a trench with workers, then garrison up to three troopers per section of trench. The troopers can not move around. Troopers and small mechs (enemy or allied) can not cross a trench, but larger mechs can. Trenchs can be destroyed like walls. The only way you can kill troopers inside a trench is to destroy the trench first, or for the troopers to take splash damage from an area-effect attack (like a heavy assault mech or artillery). Trenchs would be easier to destroy than walls, maybe having half the HPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I think you should be able to move troopers around in trenches, but you'd only be able to have 2 troopers per 'block' of trench you build. Windu, this isn't micro-intensive. Consider this: You build a wall, put some troopers in front of it, and they fire at the enemy. You can also walk the troopers around. Oh no! Constructing a building, and moving a unit! Way too much micro for me! Vostok, a point about your trivia: I haven't done it yet, but one of the questions was about whether pod-racing is on one of the screens in the bar in Ep 2. I'd just like to point out that as a really trivial trivia, what you see is not pod-racing, but actually a couple of seconds from the game Episode I Racer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Corran- What's the point in moving troopers in the trench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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