Meaning of Life

[Lost Welshman]

What I mean is,

When you go to sleep, you wake up

Before you are born, you suddenly pop into existance

So when you die, where do you go?

You cant just stop existing because we would have no reason for our memories, why can we remember them. If we died and stopped existing the memories would go aswell, so our lives wouldnt exist. Its complicated I know but its weird.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by ZDawg

I told you I saw an angle, God saved me

 

Look at what you're saying - an angel saved you, fair enough, but where was God? You're making the connection between an angel and God. Most likely you've heard stories from your family about angels saving people, and when you were in danger, your brain conjures an angel to save you. But God is nowhere to be found.

 

You know, the part about the brain inventing excuses for its actions are well documented. I recently saw a documentary about a man whose brain hemispheres weren't working together. His brain made up excuses for when he said something that had nothing to do with what he was seeing (experiement). It was quite scary really, he didn't have any control over his brains sometimes, and he wasn't possessed in the slightest if that's what you think.

 

Your really getting no-where with this "connection stuff" that doesn’t disprove God.

 

I cannot disprove God, nor am I trying to. It is nearly impossible to prove that something does not exist. How would you prove that there's an invisible being somewhere, that doesn't register on any known control method? You can't. It is, however, very easy to prove that something exists - you only have to point at it, and say "Hey, it's right there"... Of course, all Christians who have tried this, have run into the "connection problem" you are meeting - you can't prove the connection between "just look at the beauty of this pinecone" and "God is right here".

 

No, I'm not trying to disprove him. I'm trying to show you that we don't need him.

 

You can Insult my God but I cannot Mention the size of your head?

 

First of all, I did not insult you. Secondly, when did I insult your God? By stating that we have no need for him, that all miracles have in time been explained with science? That's not an insult.

 

If I Believe what God says in the Bible than I know That he said he created the Angels.

 

As Tyrion pointed out, this is circular reasoning. Can't use that.

[TheJackal]

Okay, i dunno if this was mentioned before. i was gone for a while and i just want to add this in into the topic.

 

for those who do not believe jebus... huh jesus ever existed. then here's something to think about:

 

Quite recently an important historical and bibliocal piece has been recieved at the royal museum of something (i dont remember the official title of it but i know its in Toronto, Ontario Canada). Anyways, as soon as it arrived there was a crack on it. it was repaired but at the same time many groups of scientists did some tests on it to see if it is true or not. (it was recently discovered)

 

THe thing is... they said its not a haox. it is real.

 

on the relic it says: here lies david, brother of jesus christ.

 

 

so thats it. scientists did agree with the originality of the relic.

 

I'm not a religious man. This fact has not changed my views of religion, mostly cause I'm not 100% opposed to it like some here are. Which reminds me, on TV i saw the results to a recent poll taken in many countries. in USA, 60% say religion is of great importance in thier lives. 33% in Canada. 30% in Britain. 11% in France and 97% in India.

 

just to show an example of how important religion is to certain demographics and etc.

 

now respect other people's view. a lot of administrators and moderators or watching this thread and the people involved in it.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Lost Welshman

You cant just stop existing because we would have no reason for our memories, why can we remember them.

 

What do you mean?

 

We remember them while we're alive, I've yet to hear about someone with memories from a past life.

 

And even if, why would we need a reason to stop existing?

 

JACKAL: I'm not opposed to religion. People can believe whatever they want. However, I am opposed to the idea that whatever they believe is true.

 

The second they try to preach their kids that the world behaves the way they want it to, the second they try to indoctrinate another person, the very moment they try to preach creationism in schools - that's when I'll try to stop them, and make them realize that it just doesn't work that way.

 

I'm fine with them keeping their beliefs to themselves, but try and preach it to anyone else, even their children, that'll make me tell them how the world really works.

 

Regarding kids, I believe they should have the option of choice - it's very hard to change religion or even stop believing in such nonsense once you're into it. Give kids a neutral starting ground, and make them choose for themselves.

[-s/<itzo-]

from the wise words of Forrest Gump:

"Life is like a box of chocolates, you'll never know what you're going to get."

 

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by TheJackal

now respect other people's view. a lot of administrators and moderators or watching this thread and the people involved in it.

 

*ducks out of thread quietly*

 

 

Nah,dont worry,I'll behave better.

[TheJackal]

Originally posted by Cjais

JACKAL: I'm not opposed to religion. People can believe whatever they want. However, I am opposed to the idea that whatever they believe is true.

 

The second they try to preach their kids that the world behaves the way they want it to, the second they try to indoctrinate another person, the very moment they try to preach creationism in schools - that's when I'll try to stop them, and make them realize that it just doesn't work that way.

 

I'm fine with them keeping their beliefs to themselves, but try and preach it to anyone else, even their children, that'll make me tell them how the world really works.

 

you're logic is sorta flawed. The way you go by telling them they are wrong is in a way preaching. Respect thier believes and they'll respect you.

 

I understand how preaching is wrong. I've been preached at work by some annoying old lady who said "god loves everybody... even you, but if you dont join in you'll go to hell" (that's when i kicked her out). Telling someone about thier believes is not wrong. However i think that when someone says if your not good your going to hell, or if someone is stoned to death for certain crimes then its going to far and hold his/her religions a bit too serious. (which then should be placed in question).

 

However, when some people believe in god and expresse it is fine. When they teach their childrend its fine. After all, its thier childrend. not yours. HOWEVER! If a teacher in say a public classe room starts talking about his relgion openly then its a different case. If its in a catholic school (a lot of them in north america) then its perfectly fine ... and you dont belong there if you start insult the religion some hold dearly to). For example, i went to a catholic school. but only because I'm catholic from birth and... it was the nearest school. but that doesnt mean i fallow it. Hell i dont go to church on christmas! But in 9th grade i was forced to take a religion classe. Sure we complained... but why? Why did we complain? cause thats what 9th graders do when they are bored. If we hated it so much then why did we go to a catholic school? i dont know)

 

If your case is different (like if you go to a public school) then you have the right to complain. Teachers are not allowed to "preach" openly. But you shouldn't "preach" your believes on her afterwards. That would only sour the relation ship and it contradicts your own anger towards him/her. If you do, then your are just like them. You are just like the people you hate so much.

 

(Sorry if my grammar sucks. Its very late where i live and I worked a LOT for 6 days in a row... with still more to come. )

[Elijah]

Originally posted by Cjais

I'm fine with them keeping their beliefs to themselves, but try and preach it to anyone else, even their children...

Cjais, You'v been preaching to everyone that they're beliefs are WRONG WRONG WRONG, However your saying that what your doing is wrong.

 

Again,it might just be a illusion.

 

Also,it could be your own spirit picking you up.

you Dont believe there is a God, but there is a spirit realm?

 

In that case,why not budah? Or the japanese's religion? Or Egyptian? Or Mesopotamian? Or Norse? Or Celtic?

Heres a simple answer: Because I choose Not to.

 

Also,if your such a devout christian,then why would you know about Islamic and Jewish religions?

For people like you/cjais who try to tell me there isnt much diffrence between these relligons, and that one is just the same as the other

 

 

You're directly insult him,who is proved to be real. We are insulting a omnipotent power which hasnt been proved to be real.

 

(At least by science).

A Bullets a Bullet, wether it misses or not

 

Nock it off, how many times must I say, NON-Christians have seen Miracles and Angels.

once again, spirits but no God?

 

I could say that God was the creature on a South Park special,and even though I have no proof,sometimes they are real...:rollseyes:

It's your word agianst mine.

 

You believe in God because the bible says so,and you believe in the Bible because God says so.

mmm... its like this: I believe in God because I know he is real, I believe in the bible because I know its truthful.

 

p.s

please pardon my grammar tonight, I just got finished working at 9:45 PM...

[Tyrion]

you Dont believe there is a God, but there is a spirit realm?

 

Yes,like how you believe in Christianity,but not like Egyptian.

 

Except that spirts doesnt excactly need a god.

 

Heres a simple answer: Because I choose Not to.

 

Fair enough,like how I believe in spirits but not god(at least a christian one,mine's pretty different).

 

For people like you/cjais who try to tell me there isnt much diffrence between these relligons, and that one is just the same as the other

 

That teaches you Islamic and Jewish religions..how..?

 

A Bullets a Bullet, wether it misses or not

 

But someone who shot the bullet that hits goes to jail,the one who doesnt hit get's a fine.

 

Edit- On second thought,nevermind. Sorry to insult you.

 

once again, spirits but no God?

 

Once again, god but no Evolution?

 

(Spirts are not related to god)

 

It's your word agianst mine.

 

True..

 

mmm... its like this: I believe in God because I know he is real, I believe in the bible because I know its truthful.

 

How do you know it is,excactly?

 

And in case you wanted to know..

 

My god is much like yours. Except he doesnt mind if you dont believe in him. No, instead, he gave us free will to actually use it. We will go to his Kingdom if we truely follow our paths. We dont go to other religions in fear, we go because we want to. And,he doesnt care about our morals at all. He puts them in us to make sure we dont kill each other too soon.

[gorganfloss]

I dont remember the words but watch the end of Monty Pythons The Meaning of Life. Duh.

[Elijah]

Fair enough,like how I believe in spirits but not god

I must ask the question: you cannot see a Spirit, but you believe/know its there?

 

That teaches you Islamic and Jewish religions..how..?

I dont know everything about them, I know ALOT of the diffrences

 

Once again, god but no Evolution?

I never said I didnt believe things are evolving. I simply believe that God had a lot bigger part in the creation of life.

 

(Spirts are not related to god)

Is God not a spirit?

 

How do you know it is,excactly?

Once again, Things through my life have conviced me that there is a God.

 

"A man with a spiritual experience is not at the mercy of a man with a theological argument" - "cant remember who said that"

[C'jais]

Originally posted by TheJackal

you're logic is sorta flawed. The way you go by telling them they are wrong is in a way preaching. Respect thier believes and they'll respect you.

 

This is not about belief VS belief - this is about reality expressed in the least false way VS a fantasy world where angels save people, and where prayer is more important than medicine and technology to save people.

 

When they teach their childrend its fine. After all, its thier childrend. not yours.

 

I hold individual freedom and the freedom of mind more dear than petty family values and traditions. It is considered illegal if a father hits his child physically, but not when he's raping its mind - why?

 

But you shouldn't "preach" your believes on her afterwards.

 

Once again, there's a difference since I have no beliefs - I'm not preaching anything, I'm merely asking them to look at the world without ignoring external reference.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by ZDawg

Cjais, You'v been preaching to everyone that they're beliefs are WRONG WRONG WRONG, However your saying that what your doing is wrong.

 

You don't get it. Yes, I'm saying your beliefs are false, wrong and a way of doublethinking. But, I'm fine with that as long as you keep it to yourself. When Christians entered this thread and starting telling to believe in God (even you did it), then I react. When Christians entered the Evolution thread and started preaching people how it really works, then I react.

 

you Dont believe there is a God, but there is a spirit realm?

 

A spirit realm is not omnipotent, does not require active belief and does not demand it's "followers" to preach their beliefs to anyone else. It is still belief VS belief, however.

 

Heres a simple answer: Because I choose Not to.

 

So you agree that you simply worshipped the most readily available religion/God? That since Christianity was the easiest to grasp, you held unto that instead of all the others?

 

A Bullets a Bullet, wether it misses or not

 

I did not insult You. I did not insult your God. If you see me stating that we have no need for him as an insult, you'll need to change your defination of "insult".

 

once again, spirits but no God?

 

Why not? Is it so hard to fathom that there are people here who believe something other than you?

 

It's your word agianst mine.

 

ZDawg, I'm asking you to source that eye-story, because if an eye did grow back into its socket, it would be all over the front pages of every science magazine and newspaper. Such a story is amazing, and I don't think the hospital would keep it from getting out.

 

Besides, what has an eye growing back to do with God? You're running into the connection problem and using God to fill the gaps in science - Imagine if the world consisted only of Christians, none would care to to some actual research on why the eye grew back (and use that knowledge to save others), everyone would be content with the idea that "God saved him".

 

mmm... its like this: I believe in God because I know he is real, I believe in the bible because I know its truthful.

 

But the Bible is clearly false (check evolution thread), and you've only ever seen an angel.

 

Everyone on this planet has yet to see God himself, standing before them, saying -"Here I am, now believe." Oh, God hasn't done this yet, because he works in mysterious ways, apparently saving completely random people with miracles instead of once and for all revealing his glory to mankind and end all dispute.

[Lost Welshman]

What I mean is, if we died and forgot our memories, then it would be like we never existed.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Lost Welshman

What I mean is, if we died and forgot our memories, then it would be like we never existed.

 

Ah, I getcha now...

 

You'll always have the memories of those you leave behind.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by Lost Welshman

What I mean is, if we died and forgot our memories, then it would be like we never existed.

 

 

True,but why does that worry you?

 

And even then,not everything has a purpose.

[Lost Welshman]

It doesnt worry me, its just that If I can remember things then there must be a reason. I dont think I would be able to remember things if they were going to be forgotten when I die, THUS I believe there is some form of 'life' after death.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Lost Welshman

It doesnt worry me, its just that If I can remember things then there must be a reason. I dont think I would be able to remember things if they were going to be forgotten when I die, THUS I believe there is some form of 'life' after death.

 

I'll give you a reason for why we need memories: They're what we've learned. Imagine if you had to start from scratch every time you wanted to write something or even try something you'd done before. Memories are experience, they're there for a very good reason, and you'd die without them (in the wild, of course).

 

Guess why your whole life flashes past your eyes in a splitsecond when you're in mortal danger? Your brain is scanning your entire life for some clues on how to escape the situation.

 

Your memories are not "forgotten" when you die, you simply are not there to look back at them - your mind is destroyed, your self is wiped out.

[Lost Welshman]

But if everything is wiped, then we wouldnt remember being alive, we wouldnt be here to remember, is that what youre getting at?

But if that was true then we wouldnt be able to remember them now, because if their wiped then itll be like they never existed. UNDERSTAND YET?

[-s/<itzo-]

I had an epiphany recently what life is all about.

 

 

Whether there is life after death you wouldn't remember about your past life but you do remember this life.

 

You only live once.

 

So why not live your life to the fullest.

 

To live your life to your best ability and to get the most enjoyment and satisfaction from your efforts.

 

Believe that you are just as important and that you deserve the best in life.

 

Don't settle for less or settle for poor health or being too busy to enjoy your family, friends, and yourself.

 

GET SERIOUS and LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE it REALLY MATTERS... BECAUSE it DOES.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Lost Welshman

But if everything is wiped, then we wouldnt remember being alive,

 

With you so far. But don't speak about "you wouldn't remember being alive" - "you" has ceased to exist.

 

we wouldnt be here to remember, is that what youre getting at?

 

You don't exist when you're dead. Your memories are a part of you.

 

But if that was true then we wouldnt be able to remember them now, because if their wiped then itll be like they never existed. UNDERSTAND YET?

 

Why wouldn't we be able to remember things right now? See what I wrote above if you doubt me.

 

Skitzo: Well said.

[thehomicidalegg]

The fact is know one yet understand what happens when one dies, no one understands how life came about. All we have are theories, suppositions and beliefs, but NO FACTS. One can not disprove another, nor can one prove his own ideas either. The interesting problem here is such claims to the afterlife can only be substantiated when one dies... yet when one dies, he exits THIS world and its people. We should respect other people's beliefs for their suppositions are as good as yours, and can neither be proved nor disproved.

 

imo, we over emphasize spirit or the soul. Yes we have a consciousness. But how is that different from other living things other than to say that it is more developed in homo sapiens. From the current undestanding of biology, is not consciousness induced by electric signals and neurons. Our thoughts, feelings and emotions are affected chemicals that are our body's hormones. In fact, our whole consciousness hinge on our body's metabolisms.

 

Animals of various degree of complexity also possesses consciousness, the sophistication of which is directly related to the complexity of the organism. Our mind, comparatively, is far more developed, and hence our consciousness is far more independant and able to contemplate to grerater capacity. This makes us unique, and rightly so, for our specie's intellegence is unmatched on this planet. But i feel that, as with other human attributes that are unique, we place great emphasis on it in a manner of self-absorbed importance.

 

Without the electrons travelling throough the various nerves and without the brain and the multitude of neuron it contains alive, the individual's consciousness would cease to exist. A well organised library means nothing, if nobody enters its door. A machine, however expensive and sophisticated, is naught if no one can operate it.

 

There may well be an external awareness or consciousness related with a person. Like i said, it cannot be proved or disproved. But it seems to me to be in pattern with human nature where a conception of pure egocentricity is created to fullfill an urge or craving or need - in this case the need for assurance in life, to conquer the fear of death. For men have always dreaded loneliness and nothingness, consiously and subconsciously.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by thehomicidalegg

The fact is know one yet understand what happens when one dies, no one understands how life came about. All we have are theories, suppositions and beliefs, but NO FACTS. One can not disprove another, nor can one prove his own ideas either. The interesting problem here is such claims to the afterlife can only be substantiated when one dies... yet when one dies, he exits THIS world and its people. We should respect other people's beliefs for their suppositions are as good as yours, and can neither be proved nor disproved.

 

While it is very true that we currently only have theories about the origin of life, the scientific theory builds on solid evidence, while the Christian one is ignoring evidence to a horrifying degree.

 

Which would you choose? The one that comforts you in the dark, or the one that is actually based on something substantial?

 

imo, we over emphasize spirit or the soul. Yes we have a consciousness. But how is that different from other living things other than to say that it is more developed in homo sapiens. From the current undestanding of biology, is not consciousness induced by electric signals and neurons. Our thoughts, feelings and emotions are affected chemicals that are our body's hormones. In fact, our whole consciousness hinge on our body's metabolisms.

 

Well said, for that is fact. However, do not assume animals have a consciousness - their brain consists only of the "instinctive system", the one that rewards (eating, drinking, sex etc), and takes care of automated nerve systems (such as making our heart beat without needing conscious effort to do it) and making sure we don't lose our balance. In humans, the part of the brain that controls memory, consciousness and languages is far more developed, and we're the nearly the only species in which it exists. Nearly every animal does not know it is alive.

 

Without the electrons travelling throough the various nerves and without the brain and the multitude of neuron it contains alive, the individual's consciousness would cease to exist.

 

Don't forget the brain also needs blood to function, and don't forget the brain begins to decompose when we die

 

There may well be an external awareness or consciousness related with a person.

 

There may, and most likely is some sort of external consciousness. Recent tests have shown a huge fluctuation in small machines (which are designed to simply produce an endless, random chain of binary digits), when 11/9 happened. Very interesting, but I'm afraid such a global consciousness does not extend beyond life.

[Tyrion]

There may, and most likely is some sort of external consciousness. Recent tests have shown a huge fluctuation in small machines (which are designed to simply produce an endless, random chain of binary digits), when 11/9 happened. Very interesting, but I'm afraid such a global consciousness does not extend beyond life.

 

Interesting...so it was like a phycic(sp?) scream?

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Tyrion

 

Interesting...so it was like a phycic(sp?) scream?

 

Yeah, sort of.

 

The same happened (on a somewhat smaller scale) when NATO commenced the bombings on Jugoslavia. It is a psychic scream made by those alive, not those who died - it was quite likely generated by all the despair and hopelessness the people involved experienced. They also made some test by taking these random machines to a live football match, and they saw the same fluctuation/increase there.

 

It could be explained if we consider the brain using wavelengths instead of particles when it's "working" - it could result in such a global consciousness.