C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 This isn't supposed to be another "Code of conduct", these are guidelines to not waste other people's time, making friends and getting invited to cool parties, and generally not making an ass out of yourself online. 0. So obvious it gets the "rule 0" slot: Thou shall not cheat. Evar. Never cheat. Never ever. 1. Thou shall not curse your opponent when dying. Of course, if it's between friends and agreed upon (IE inside joking), it's alright. 2. Thou shall not chatkill. However, if your opponent is continually wasting other's time by using the server as a chatroom, it'll be justified by all the other players when they congratulate you for getting the game flowing again. 3. Thou shall fight. Even though it sounds simple enough, many people forget this vital part of the game. If you're suspecting your opponent of not being capable of doing this simple feat, here's a test: Stand still with your saber turned on - if your opponent is dancing around, doing acrobatics, cartwheels, rolling on the floor etc, but not attacking you, he's laming. The same goes for you - if all you ever do is wait for openings and spending the rest of the time doing backflips and cartwheels; it's time to reconsider how offensive/attacking you really are. Of course, it's alright to wait for openings once in a while, but if it's all you do, you're annoying the opponent. 4. Thou shall not flee from combat. Ever. It is utterly pointless - you're here to fight, not check out the scenery and the beautiful architecture. It's alright to make a quick withdrawal to get some breathing room if hunted by a manic blue twirler, but make sure you get back into the action again and don't just spending the entire game running from your enemy. 5. Thou shall not make huge, overly high jumps. It's okay to make a few surprise assaults from above, but if you do it all the time, your opponent might just pick up on this, and start doing it himself - if that occurs, you won't be fighting, just jumping about all the time (IE Wasting time). 6. Thou shall not roll excessively on the floor. Dodging incoming attacks are fine, but making this a compulsive behaviour is not. I've seen many red-users who seem to enjoy making their standard 3-combo and then rolling away immediately after that. It is, of course, my own damn problem if I get hit, so I choose to step out of their wide-arcing swings until they're finished. This is but the beginning to the "Dance of eternal boredom" (as I like to call it): The overly dodgy red player rolls away each and every time he's finished making his combo, and I step out of the way each and every time he's doing said combo. Repeat ad nauseum. I've seen fights last nearly 10 minutes because of this "tactic", and the players in the queue tend to get bored, if not outright leaving the server. Of course, the compulsive "roller" is in his full right to do his rolling - but he won't get invited to any cool parties this way. 'Nuff said. 7. There is no number 7.... 8. Thou shall not mistake the duel server for a chatroom. That means, don't spend the first few minutes chatting up that other finnish freund of yours on getting the latest gossip on what's hot in Finland (no I have nothing against Finns) - you're wasting the queue-people's time yet again. If however, you're the only people in the server or if the dudes in the queue don't care whether you chat or not, I couldn't care less. 9. Thou shall not get offended if the other guy isn't following your own ideals of bowing or courtesy. This means, if you expect him to bow, yet he tears into you the second the match starts, it's your problem, not his. Notice he is entitled to decide whether he wants to bow or not, say "gf" or not - but if you start to bitch, moan and get angry because he's not conforming to your ideals of an honourable fight, you're the one wasting other's time. (Doing a ten second bow, or even expecting the other guy to bow is ridiculous, IMHO - getting in place and making sure you're both ready is not. There's a fine line between the two, invisible to many.) 10. Thou shall use your saber. Contrary to popular belief (and based on actual research) - kicking all the time is not cool. Sorry guys, but the incessant kicking is scaring the people away who expect to use their saber when fighting. Again, using kicks once in a while is okay, but you're severely annoying the people who wants some actual saber combat. This is a somewhat vague rule, and I expect many people to launch the usual "It's the other guy's problem if he can't defend himself"-mantra. This may be right, but this game is based on sabers, not feet, and the large majority prefers it this way. If it was cool to chatkill, it'd be accepted as well, but it's not. Same goes for this dubious fighting technique. Disclaimer: If you're on a server with its own, formalized rules, respect them or leave. But when on a server with "no rulezzzz!" or simply a public server, arrive with these guidelines in mind, and you'll get more friends, not to mention making other people's online time more enjoyable. Trust me. Again, just so people don't mistake this for something it isn't: These are not rules, nor some "Code of Conduct - this is my guide on how to make other's time online more enjoyable. I made this guide with Joe Average in mind, the one that do get annoyed if spends 10 minutes in the queue, only to be brutally kicked to death by some l33t dude who doesn't even lower himself to turning his saber on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I agree with everything you wrote but at the end you say about the bowing. I don't agree with people who wait for you to bow and then attack you when you bowing. 6. Thou shall not roll excessively on the floor. Dodging incoming attacks are fine, but making this a compulsive behaviour is not. I maybe called an excessive roller but it's usually because they're attacking me that i roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by Agen_Terminator I agree with everything you wrote but at the end you say about the bowing. I don't agree with people who wait for you to bow and then attack you when you bowing. This goes well with the "Don't expect people to follow your ideals of bowing" - you're expecting him to bow. You should be expecting to fight from the word go. May I use this oppurtunity to point out that you're at great risk if you do the "long, graceful, awe-inspiring 10 second bow while staring at the floor". Never, never take your eyes off the opponent. You don't need to stare at the floor for half a minute, you don't need to take your eyes off your opponent while giving a gesture of readiness. I maybe called an excessive roller but it's usually because they're attacking me that i roll. Oh, but people tend to attack you in duel servers, no? The goal is to kill the enemy dammit - you don't need to flee all the time. One of you has to die, in order to get the game flowing, and other people playing too - get it over with, don't waste other's time. Of course people attack you... There are other ways to dodge attacks as well, rolling could be substituted by simply running/walking out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Yes, but why not roll if it's quicker and gives you a bettter chance to counter-attack. This goes well with the "Don't expect people to follow your ideals of bowing" - you're expecting him to bow. You should be expecting to fight from the word go. yeh but he bows or makes it look like he's about to bow while attacks it's cheap to attack when they clearlly intend to cheapsoht ya if you get my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Good job there Jais! After all, they are good and therefore they should be kept in mind when playing! Well, youve said just about everything here, so cya round on the servers!! -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by Agen_Terminator Yes, but why not roll if it's quicker and gives you a bettter chance to counter-attack. Yes. But you're missing the point here - if all you do is dodging when your opponent is on the attack, it makes people very annoyed. I'm not saying it's what you do, but just try to avoid getting into the "Dance of eternal boredom"-syndrome, where you're both making a quick escape when the other guy is on the attack. It's very easy to avoid getting hit with sabers in this game, but that's also what makes it boring to watch some times. yeh but he bows or makes it look like he's about to bow while attacks it's cheap to attack when they clearlly intend to cheapsoht ya if you get my drift. When you bow, you put yer arse on the line, that's the whole point. If he gets a hit in, you bowed for too long, or simply too close to him. End of story. This sneak attack, I've yet to experience myself - I've heard about people DFA'ing the bowing dude, but I've yet to see it, and I doubt it's that easy to do. Nodding at the ground is bowing. Staring at the ground for several seconds is suicide. I too, have been charging at a bowing person (because I lost my patience...) but I never got to the point of striking him - just letting him know that we should "get on with it". @Clemme: Thanks dude! BTW, I've yet a point to include: 11. Thou shall strike thy opponent. I have seen many people who are simply slashing thin air, while hoping that I'll walk into those neatly wellplaced swings. Doesn't work that way - Try to actually aim for me instead. It's hard to describe, but I'm sure you've all seen those robotic red-wh0res who do their 3-swing combo in thin air, regardless of where their opponent is. You can easily see the difference between a person who's actually trying to hit his opponent, and a person who's doing pre-determined moves regardless of his opponent's actions. Try to adjust, look for openings in his defence, go with the flow of the battle - instead of merely striking air and hoping your opponent is still there. Useless moves bore the spectators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 hmmmm bowings just part of the match .... if u dont wanna bow ... dont bow .... but DO NOT ATTACK SOMEONE WHO IS BOWING! thats just proving that you cant cope with a real fight and have to attack a weaker opponent Rolling ..... rolling is my friend as you well know jais, it is a VERY effect way of surviving during a fight .... if im still "breathing" i can still attack ... i refuse to restrict my dodging just so the fight is shorter .... rolling can be beaten (and in my case often is) so ... u should learn to counter it .... when enuff people can kill me when i roll ... ill think about changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by Clem hmmmm bowings just part of the match .... if u dont wanna bow ... dont bow .... but DO NOT ATTACK SOMEONE WHO IS BOWING! thats just proving that you cant cope with a real fight and have to attack a weaker opponent Clem, of course it's common knowledge to not attack a bowing person, but you should always bow a safe distance away, and for a safe duration. If you do this, you cannot be attacked that way. Rolling ..... rolling is my friend as you well know jais, it is a VERY effect way of surviving during a fight .... if im still "breathing" i can still attack ... i refuse to restrict my dodging just so the fight is shorter .... rolling can be beaten (and in my case often is) so ... u should learn to counter it .... when enuff people can kill me when i roll ... ill think about changing I'm not referring to your kind of rolling, Clem - you haven't met the folks I tend to play with/against. Rolling all the fooking time is very annoying, and will only serve to irritate the spectators. Yes, it's an effective way to survive, but the point is, one of you has to die in order to get the queue moving. Next time we play, I can show you what I mean with, "all the fooking time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 irl bowing in eastern MA is an acknowledgement of the honor of both combatants and the arena. you bow to the mat/fighting area also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 irl MA know better than to take their eyes off their opponent. those that do deserve to die an embarrassing death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 edited for content -obi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by 12345678 Edited for content -obi *clicks report post to a moderator* Remember kids, don't feed the trolls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by 12345678 irl bowing in eastern MA is an acknowledgement of the honor of both combatants and the arena. you bow to the mat/fighting area also. You bow and expose your neck to your opponent as a sign of respect. You trust that he's worthy of that respect by not chopping your head off. Sadly, most opponents in JK2 aren't worthy of that respect... [EDITAGE] Thanks for clearing that mess up, Obi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[-o-] Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 How to deal with rollers/jumpers: Usually it is possible to manoeuvre so that the roller/jumper is rolling/jumping into you, then hit them for mega damage with the lunge. Once they start their roll/jump there is only one place they will end up, wait for them there and then lunge. This does not work against the ones who keep using all their force 6 jump so they go too far to get in position to do a lunge that will hit them, perhaps the only think to do is bind the lunge (or use the mouse2 walking trick, or be very good at pressing crouch and fire simultaneously) so you can do the lunge without stopping first. What do Cjais’ rules have to say about cheating in order to kill an otherwise indestructible lamer? Say someone is using the boor-the-other-guy-to-death-by-running-away-and-jumping-all-over-the-place tactic so that he can be killed only by cheating, is it justified to cheat? P.S. Are binds cheating? Is the mouse2 walking trick for the lunge cheating? If someone is cheating are you justified to cheat also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 28, 2002 Author Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by [-o-] What do Cjais’ rules have to say about cheating in order to kill an otherwise indestructible lamer? Say someone is using the boor-the-other-guy-to-death-by-running-away-and-jumping-all-over-the-place tactic so that he can be killed only by cheating, is it justified to cheat? P.S. Are binds cheating? Is the mouse2 walking trick for the lunge cheating? If someone is cheating are you justified to cheat also? Sorry, I should have called it "bug expoits" instead of cheating. Everything, of course, is circumstantial - using exploits to beat a guy who's using exploits can be justified, but IMHO you're only lowering yourself to his level. Binding moves or binding anything at all, is not considered cheating in my book. Remember, there is no such thing as justice. Thanks for the tips, [-o-] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomicidalegg Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 as for bowing: if you want to bow, keep your distance and just tap couch and keep your eye on you opponent, he wont have time to perform a dfa... and if he triest to ambush you, you can lunge at any time. Cheating: cheating is the rcon bug, cheating is the invisible sabre, cheating is the 999ing yourself at optune moments.... Scripts arent cheating (although the sabrelock script may be an exception), Pull+throw isn’t cheating, and walking to perform running lunge is DEFINITELY NOT cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Very good info Cjais. I have just started to play JKII again and I have been doing the Saber only matches because before all I did was guns only and never used the saber except as a last weapon of choice. I picked up the bowing thing and I do have to say that you are a moron if you bow for longer than 5 whole seconds. I also do make sure that we are a good fair distance away. I have one question to ask though. How do I meditate my character? I have seen many people do this but I still don't know how to do it. Is it a cheat or do I have to bind something? Thanks for all the info that you have posted. While I was playing recently with fellow Swampies I was very conscious because I didn't know if I was playing unfarely or getting annoying to them. Luckily they told me that I was doing ok and wasn't doing anything that I wasn't suppose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I can't help myself. I have to say it. Again. Imho some scripts *are* cheating. Certain moves were designed so that they do more damage but are harder to execute. Take the Medium Finisher: you need AIM, DEXTERITY and TIMING to pull it off. Especially when your opponent is moving, you sometimes fail to execute it. This gives an advantage to the opponent. Likewise, if you practise a lot you'll get better at it and the chance of succeeding gets higher. That's the game. For some reason people feel that it is NECESSARY to fool around in the Jedi Outcast's Base-directory and create new notepad-documents filled with series of commands and bind all that crap to one key in order to gain an advantage by being able to perform special moves (or whatever) successfully every time and faster than any human could. Now...WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?! WHY do you have to start fooling around? How about...gee..I don't know....JUST *PLAYING* THE GAME?! Is that so damn hard? Play, practise, get better, right? ...No? More like "spend all your time trying to find the most devastating script or hack or bug or exploit so that you can pwn everyone"? If people PLAYED THE GAME, instead of messing around trying to find ways to circumvent the skill needed to win, we'd all be better off. If you want to configure your keys, fine. But scripts that perform special attacks or win saberlocks with the press of a single button...? Please.. get a life. As for the actual topic of this thread -> I agree with cjais, but personally I follow my own code which seems to do the job quite well. It's not very complicated...and it goes like this: Don't be an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Luc Solar It's not very complicated...and it goes like this: Don't be an ass. I agree with ya on scripting too, man... 'tis sad when you need to resort to such means in order to win. Pa'tetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomicidalegg Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Originally posted by Luc Solar For some reason people feel that it is NECESSARY to fool around in the Jedi Outcast's Base-directory and create new notepad-documents filled with series of commands and bind all that crap to one key in order to gain an advantage by being able to perform special moves (or whatever) successfully every time and faster than any human could. ... If you want to configure your keys, fine. But scripts that perform special attacks or win saberlocks with the press of a single button...? Please.. get a life. i understand but i'd just like to say a lot of people use cfgs not to bind specials to 1 key, but to lay out a favourable key setup, as you mentioned, and to assign keys to character setup(name, model, sabrecolour, force selection, etc), gameplay options(recording demos, game camera options, various "say" commands) and taunts. there is a certain misconception that all scripts are some form of hacks, which they are not. I personally dont mind if my opposition is using combat scripts, because, getting right down to it, all they are doing is pressing 1 key instead of pressing 3, a slight edge but not much difference. Its rather waste of time, energy and enjoyment to make to big a deal about it, and to begrudge even the smallest things. Like most people, i just want to enjoy the game when i play. To do so, respect others, and don't pick on every little fault(even if there might be a reason to), unless they are blatantly cheating though, (see my prev post 4 examples and i dont see scripts as being cheating as they do not make much difference). You'll enjoy the experience much more and everyone else will too. Back to the topic, i agree with many of CJais' recommendations, the central idea i believe is: Just use commonsense when you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 you expose your neck when you bow? nonsense, you dont bow that far, and you MAINTAIN EYE CONTACT when youre about to fight someone, ESPECIALLY in a bloody death duel. maybe in a feudal japanese court you kowtow, not to an enemy. sorry about the other rant bit i had a bad night, my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 any martial courtesy or chivalrous behavior must pass the survivability test. politeness that affords your enemy an advantage over you is not a part of any valid thought meme, except a suicidal one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Originally posted by thehomicidalegg i understand but i'd just like to say a lot of people use cfgs not to bind specials to 1 key, but to lay out a favourable key setup, as you mentioned, and to assign keys to character setup(name, model, sabrecolour, force selection, etc), gameplay options(recording demos, game camera options, various "say" commands) and taunts. there is a certain misconception that all scripts are some form of hacks, which they are not. I personally dont mind if my opposition is using combat scripts, because, getting right down to it, all they are doing is pressing 1 key instead of pressing 3, a slight edge but not much difference. Its rather waste of time, energy and enjoyment to make to big a deal about it, and to begrudge even the smallest things. Like most people, i just want to enjoy the game when i play. To do so, respect others, and don't pick on every little fault(even if there might be a reason to), unless they are blatantly cheating though, (see my prev post 4 examples and i dont see scripts as being cheating as they do not make much difference). You'll enjoy the experience much more and everyone else will too. [/i] Agreed. I do not consider most scripts cheating. The ones you mentioned are prime examples of scripts that I have no problem with. The fact whether or not a scripter gains a small or huge advantage is beside the point however... And as for bitching and whining while playing: I never ever do that. Usually even the worst of scripters, even cheaters, get their "gf" from me. I play exclusively for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 31, 2002 Author Share Posted December 31, 2002 Originally posted by 12345678 you expose your neck when you bow? nonsense, you dont bow that far, and you MAINTAIN EYE CONTACT when youre about to fight someone, ESPECIALLY in a bloody death duel. maybe in a feudal japanese court you kowtow, not to an enemy. Believe it or not, the idea behind bowing is to expose yourself. any martial courtesy or chivalrous behavior must pass the survivability test. politeness that affords your enemy an advantage over you is not a part of any valid thought meme, except a suicidal one. But bowing has seemingly passed the "survivability test". It has survived to this day. Think deeper about it: when you expose yourself to your enemy, the enemy is usually honorful enough to not cut you down right there, and instead choose to bow himself. Not to mention, all the people who are watching them duel - if one of them did such a dishonorable thing, they'd be branded social outcasts. And that is worse than death in most old cultures. Here's another gesture that has survived to this day: Hand-shaking. Originally, it meant you were unarmed, and showed it. Once again, an ample oppurtunity to cut someone down right there and then. It just doesn't work that way, most cultures embrace the aspect of an honorable fight, and using cheap shots like that leads to social stigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 I bow before every fight. And I don't really care if they strike me down while I'm bowing, I mean I do it willingly and am aware of the risk that I'm taking. But people really have to be low if they kill you while you bow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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