=A= discussion nr.2: Money

[matt--]

setsuko:

how many bankers do we have? If not many, a quick pm could turn into quite a wait.

 

no phat lewt

 

I love the idea of an armory...I just suggested in another thread that I could provide newer members with combat droids.

[swediot=)]

Originally posted by Jan Gaarni

Yay, I'm a hero. But am I still a hero even though I didn't understand any of it?

j/k.

 

Greg, if you don't hire this guy as your assistant, YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!!

 

About the military branch: If we want them to be as good as they can get, I'm thinking we are gonna have to pay them.

At the very least, let them have reduced obligations when it comes to payment, and let their actions and commitment show how they should be rewarded.

 

Am I rambling nonsence, or does it make sense?

 

all hail jan garni the bringer of low taxes

[arguile]

that guy is right about having a long wait with the banker. if there is only one and he isnt on then you wouldnt be able to function right. that armory idea is pretty good since you could potentially control it yourself. however, if your crafters are donating armor and not money you might have a problem. mostly that you wont have hard currency to pay your troops with which will probably be an issue with them. another hump is that if you arent dealing with someone that is "trusted" then it will be an even harder decision for you to decide what to give him or her. your best bet may be a simple allowance program and maybe the equivalent of a signing bonus to get people started.

 

another option is to play it mercenary style and pay out only for set jobs. that would mean your guys could go out and explore instead of sitting around at the city "protecting." more than likely you would only need more than a few guards for big jobs like mining excursions and goods transports. so really you might consider paying half in advance and half after set amounts based on who youre asking and what job you need done.

[matt--]

Can we pay taxes in equipment for the use of newbies instead of credits?

[Talain]

I was thinking along the same sort of lines. Now a smuggler or explorer or other adventuresome type can pay decent taxes because of the high-risk/high-reward style of their profession, but for someone manufacturing things or farming, money is going to be a lot tighter. Instead of setting down tax percentages, set the taxes by profession. A bounty hunter pays x% of each bounty, an explorer pays probably a fee and helps newbies find their way around, a smuggler pays either x% of their profit or x% of their cargo, a manufacturer provides equipment and x% of each sale, a farmer feeds the Associates, etc

[setsuko]

Having crafters supplying the =A= instead of paying taxes is a good idea. How to make it work ingame is harder, especially when there's a big fat NDA in the way. After all, the taxes are there to make sure that our PA thrives, if we can get all (or most) of the services from within our ranks, we become selfsufficient, a closed economy system. Money is really only needed for the services and equipment that we need yet can't get from within our group. As we grow, the need of taxes diminish. That is, unless we want to build a proper town. Saving up for one house at a time will be faster and way more rewarding than having each player have to save up for a house themselves.

[Talain]

Yeah, but even that goal might be better achieved with production. For example, not all PAs will have all crafters, and if we can sell them bulk amounts of food/weapons/armor/etc., we could probably make money faster than with taxes. It depends on the specifics of the ingame economy.

 

By the way, which server are we on again?

[Thew Rydur]

Starsider, on the east coast.

[Zendjir]

What about taxes for ppl with multiple professions? Like me; I will become a smuggler/ explorer/ pistoleer. How should taxes be handled for me, and alot of other members with multiple professions?

[setsuko]

Well, the best thing would be if the person who is affected the most, that is the actual player, gets to decide, yes? So each month/week, I could chose to donate a certain amount, run a PA mission or two, donate some equipment that is on the "PA wishlist" (a list where the members and leaders can post what they need at the moment), or entertain in the bar for two nights etc. You do your duties, or pay hard cash, you get a big fat "approved" stamp, and you're free to go!

 

Off course, if you know you are offline for the whole week, a quick message to your group leader would let you out of it, though people would become suspicious if someone kept doing this a lot.

 

Well, for the list, it would propably be made by the group leaders together, hopefully with the help of our clever members (who often comes up with better solutions than ourselves!), and could be updated frequently to make sure the different duties are balanced, and that there's duties for all members. For instance, if one member suddenly learns to cook, we would have to think up a mission or two.

 

And well, since you can pay your way out of it, there's a way out for those weeks when you just don't feel like doing missions.

 

 

Does this sound like a resonable idea?

[Zendjir]

Sounds ok, im with you.

[Thew Rydur]

Maybe for the item idea, there could be a quartermaster of something, who takes care of all supplies and that sort of thing.

[setsuko]

Each group leader should be responsible for keeping an eye on what equipment there is available for the group, and what items are needed. After all, they are the ones who has the most knowledge of the situation in their own groups.

[Talain]

So that means I'll likely be paying my takes to you then, since weapons would fall under your umbrella.

[swediot=)]

no i think you should supply the weapons to people who are having trouble getting hold of them like some people who come later and are new or something

[Thew Rydur]

I think Set means the items would be given to the leaders to distribute to there groups, and therefore new players/members.

[Deft Aklin]

I am hoping that there will be programmed code fior ease of taxation. i.e. Set tax to specific percentage. Tax is taken off the top of each respective members earned money and depositted directly into the PAs account. In fact, didn't the Devs mention something about this?

 

(Yes I know I'm invading your private space here, sorry.)

[Talain]

A flat tax wouldn't be that useful, though. Especially for soemone in a high-expense profession, like myself, we aren't going to make that much money because the market will be fairly filled with crafters. What we can make are massive amounts of equipment.

[Lord Helmet]

which you sell

[Talain]

Not likely. People only need one blaster, and with the number of crafters around, there won't be that much business for your average weaponsmith unless they work supplying a PA force.

[Thew Rydur]

I don't think there will be a problem for crafters. First of all, I think most players will have more than one weapon, regardless of how many they need. You will be able to sell your items to NPC

's too. There will be item decay, so crafters will have to keep replenishing the stock. There will also be the constant flood of noobs who are looking for some good player-crafted items.

[Lord Helmet]

To make it clear. For any fighting profession you need weapons except teras kasi sp? artist. Once you get your weapons and armor, you need polish kits..MANY MANY POLISH KITS. That will probably be done by the PA, for people who can not afford some of their own. the PA's main expenses will NOT benfeit indivual players unless absolutely needed. For example it will help our city buildings (eventually), it will buy Pa vehicles ...i plan to make it rentable or free depending on the situation.

 

So there will definstealy not a be a flat tax unless we are need for money...we will have a reserve if we need to spend.

 

There will be a savings account for a PA space ship with exapnsion pack...if anyone was interested in hearing that...a nice one..

 

Enough with governments..With so many people, we will not have to take away much from anyone to make some mula. Just what we need to get by, and some safety money. So if your making alot of money, and dont need it all, feel free to deposit alot and get some benfeits..

[setsuko]

Lord Helmet is right.

 

The PA has been growing like mad since this discussion started, and I fear any sort of tax control would take too much time to make it worth it, considering the amount of people we'd have to check up.

 

After all, we could have our PA economy based on donations. Then we would simply build our city according to how generous we feel. If you like the idea of a city, then you send Lord Helmet some cash now and then. And, if we really need money urgently, we simply make a fundraiser.

 

That is also an alternative. You are free to not send a lot of money all the time, though supplying a steady income for the PA will surely give you favour amongs the members.

 

Feedback?

 

EDIT:

 

Of course, members who has donated a lot of money would have more to say about what buildings to make first etc than members who has not contributed.

[Sunshine Badass]

I would say 20% is fair because whether someone works hard to earn their keep, or someone is incredibly rich, both pay a measly 20% their profit each week. Now this may seem harsh, but the rich have more to contribute and if they give more to The Associates, then that's all the more The Associates can help the underdog to become a contributing member of the PA and donate just as much. Everyone should have a chance and everyone should play by the same rules. At the end or beginning of each week, a report is made by members consisting of what resources are needed. Depending on the severity and trustworthiness of the person, resources may be doled out to those who could use them to boost their business or otherwise make them better contributors to the PA. I know it would be hard for Helmut to keep track of who has borrowed what and who has been squandering the PA's resources and making no advancements to their contributions, but could he not hire out accountants to assist him if it all becomes too much? People he trusts to be honest and people who the PA trusts to be honest? Taxes should be a flat rate for all, but in the interest of moving small businesses forward, we need to spend money to start them off making money, and when they are on their feet, they are making steady contributions to the PA and then smaller, needier business could be focused upon then. I am SURE this would be slow in the beginning, but in the end, would we not have steady incomes that are growing exponentially?

 

i.e. We can help one person in the start, he starts making income for the PA and we have more money. THEN we can help TWO people get started towards independence from aid, contributing their income and helping even MORE businesses make money. Then we could focus on mass military issues and other expenses. But to start out, the PA needs funding and I believe the way to do that is to aid small business, build profit each week, make steady income untill we can REALLY support ourselves. This PA HAS the intelligence, the orginization, HOPEFULLY the drive, ambition, and means to reach the goal of becoming a formidable PA in the business world. Always start small and work your way up to the Heavens of Badass Industry, so we don't lose it all along the way with hastily made plans, shortsightedness, and overall sense of defeat by some fatal error in something that was overlooked. Test things out, but don't get too attached to one way of doing things. Experiment to see what is MOST effective and rewarding, and The Associates can't be stopped. We are only as effective as we are able to aid one another. I may be wrong in all this rambling... But hell, it sounds damn good to me, bet then again... I amy be a complete idiot.

 

Please tell me what you all think of this.

[Talain]

Originally posted by setsuko

Lord Helmet is right.

 

The PA has been growing like mad since this discussion started, and I fear any sort of tax control would take too much time to make it worth it, considering the amount of people we'd have to check up.

 

After all, we could have our PA economy based on donations. Then we would simply build our city according to how generous we feel. If you like the idea of a city, then you send Lord Helmet some cash now and then. And, if we really need money urgently, we simply make a fundraiser.

 

That is also an alternative. You are free to not send a lot of money all the time, though supplying a steady income for the PA will surely give you favour amongs the members.

 

Feedback?

 

EDIT:

 

Of course, members who has donated a lot of money would have more to say about what buildings to make first etc than members who has not contributed.

 

You've got my vote. Running the PA like a non-profit seems like a good idea. The biggest team players get the most say.