UgonDieFoo Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn : A fetus is a part of the mother until it is born. It can't think for itself, can it? Therefore, it is nothing more than any other part of a woman's body, such as an arm or a leg. Ok..... So you think we should spend $5 million+ to grow a kid than's not even wanted? We already have an overpopulation problem in the world. And BTW, who do you think should raise that child afterwards? I would sure like to know how the ability to think can determine whether or not an unborn child is part of its mother, like an arm or a leg. By the way, all of modern medical science indicates that an unborn child is its own separate entity, from conception to birth and beyond. And you don't need a Phd in biology to understand that an unborn child isn't exactly the same thing as a arm, a leg or any other body part you can name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Originally posted by UgonDieFoo If there isn't anything in the Constitution that denies the Supreme Court a certain power, it does not mean that the Supreme Court can assume that power. The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land. They have the final say in all US legal matters. Roe vs. Wade brought abortion to them, they ruled. They're expected to make current interpretations of the words of the Constitution. That's their job. If Congress wanted to overrule the Supreme Court, they'd have to make a Constitutional amendment. Also, I did not ever argue that a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term. In addition, I fail to see how it can be concluded that what I have proposed would necessarily result in any more physical harm to the mother than what a regular abortion would. Abortions require no actual sincisions to be made. To successfully remove a fetus during the normal abortion time period would be next to impossible (since it's tiny and directly linked to the mother) and would take major lower andominal surgery (and therefore put the woman at risk). I don't believe that we could do it with even a remote chance of success. Sides, the fetus would just die soon after removal anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 ok im all for women rites to choose but isnt that just a fancy name for murder i this situation-its all properganda-they have rites to choose like all people but does that mean its ok for women to kill a person grown up-they say its not a person yet but it has a heart beat and can react to is=ts envirnment and even think-so just because its not fully capable we can kill it rite ...no! ---people dont kill people if they have mental problems or are handicapped..c'mon people if you think killing an innocent baby is rite you got problems...another thing its imoral-now you may not stick to moral but do you murder--people who get abortions are usyally teens and people in there 20's because they arnt ready for a child but adoption is there -they only yime i can think of abortion being rite is if the women will die from either having the baby or medical complications from having him that will kill her........even if the baby will be sick or mentally challenged he will still live even if they will live to only 3 its still a life that could have meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 It's easy to judge things as immoral when you're on the outside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 yes thats true but im not axactly a moral king-im not a bad person but ive done things that were not moral-i dont like to judge people, unless i do, and now i dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Well, wanting to ban abortion is totally judging other people and making them do what you want them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 Ok razorace I believe that it was you who said on like page 1 or 2 of this thread that you could have died before being born if the doctors had done something to your mom.Now that you look at it, even though your mom could have been in danger because of you, would you have wanted her to have an abortion? Then you wouldn't be in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I simply believe that people should be given the choice to have a baby if they become pregnant, especially in this day and age when there has been an explosion in the number of teenage and unwanted pregnancies. If abortion was illegal, and the mother didn't want the baby, do you think the baby would live a happy life after it was born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegietto Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 i think it is wrong atleast if u don't want the kid then give it to someone else don't kill it it is a human being i mean that is just wrong if u ask me but u didn't so who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I am completely pro-choice - the choice whether or not to have sex, and thus get yourself pregnant. But you don't have the choice to commit murder. If teenage girls don't have enough brains to realize that sex usually ends up with pregnancy, then somebody messed up bringing them up. Same with the guys. If people don't want to have to deal with a pregnancy - then don't have sex. That way, there's no problem with the woman getting pregnant; she won't. And you're not killing something quite alive. Whoever said that they're not thinking by the time most abortions happened - you're wrong. The brain is functioning by six weeks I think is the right time. And most abortions happen after that because most women don't know they're pregnant till shortly before then. The ants argument is different too - ants are not human. Human life is viewed as precious in most civilized cultures around the world. Ants' lives are not. Why? Because ants cannot think rationally, unlike humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys If teenage girls don't have enough brains to realize that sex usually ends up with pregnancy, then somebody messed up bringing them up. Same with the guys. If people don't want to have to deal with a pregnancy - then don't have sex. And you think this will somehow change for the better in the future? According to this view, the world is going to Hell. Fast. Sex is a primitive thing. Sex between apes and humans (not that way) has taken on the role of enjoyment and past time. It strengthens the community, and a great way to enjoy yourself. This is how it has always been, like it or not, except during the puritanical 19th century. I'm just going to sit back and watch as abortions get more and more common, and that populations in China and India rise to the point of massive starvation without abortion. The future is surely looking bleak for those who claim the moral high ground in this matter. Nothing but death and suffering for those who succesfully gets rid of abortions in the aforementioned countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys If teenage girls don't have enough brains to realize that sex usually ends up with pregnancy, then somebody messed up bringing them up. Same with the guys. If people don't want to have to deal with a pregnancy - then don't have sex. It's real, real easy to say that from an outside point of view. Harder to actually follow through with it. Abstinence... a perfect method of prevention... but really, it's no fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Not entirely true. A lot of the people I know have already had sex; I have no problem waiting. It really comes down to your morality and whether you've got the guts to stick with your values. But my point is, if you don't want the baby, don't put yourself in a situation where you're probably going to get it. Don't buy something if you're not willing to pay the cost, if you get my meaning. In other words, don't have sex if you're not willing to have a baby, because your only other option at that point is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I have no problem waiting. How many times have you actually been put into the situation? Try going to a club sometime. Have a girl grinding up against you, whispering stuff in your ear. Get some alcohol into your system. See how fast your "morals" get washed away. Not putting yourself in the situation... well, youd be surprised how often the situation can arise, even at the most unexpected moments. I guess it's different with different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 I guess it's different with different people. These different, morally superior people are also blissfully unaware that literally thousands of people are dying of starvation and horrible sanitation in India and China because they're simpoly too many people. For them, it's not about being morally decadent and having sex all the time, but the mere fact that if they don't have children, even more people are going to die because there'll be no one to feed the old people any more. Abortion helps though - it cuts down on the family size and helps save thousands of lives in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys The ants argument is different too - ants are not human. Human life is viewed as precious in most civilized cultures around the world. Ants' lives are not. Why? Because ants cannot think rationally, unlike humans. Oh? In buddhist(Or something,whichever that karate guy in "Karate Kid III: ),a roach(not much different from an ant,mentally) is sacred. They believe all life is sacred. We,on the other hand, think that we are the most sacred being in the world. (What I think of the meaning of life) The ability to comprehend one's existance. Babies cannot do that,so to me,they arent really alive and such. (Bah,I'm just rambling..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais These different, morally superior people are also blissfully unaware that literally thousands of people are dying of starvation and horrible sanitation in India and China because they're simpoly too many people. For them, it's not about being morally decadent and having sex all the time, but the mere fact that if they don't have children, even more people are going to die because there'll be no one to feed the old people any more. Abortion helps though - it cuts down on the family size and helps save thousands of lives in the long run. What are you talking about? Are you saying now that its better to have sex and children so they can feed old people but you still want abortion? Or maybe I am just reading your reply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast What are you talking about? Are you saying now that its better to have sex and children so they can feed old people but you still want abortion? Or maybe I am just reading your reply wrong. 'Thing is, they're simply too many people. It will cause lots and lots of fatalities if they suddenly decided to simply stop breeding. It will cause even more if they decided to breed the way they've always done. In the long run. It will cause less if they decide to get abortions to take care of unwanted pregnancies. It will help make a better future for the next generations. And no, it's not silly teenage pregnancies I'm talking about here. It's between grown men and women who apparently find it hard to resist the urge to reproduce "for fun". Abortion helps keep the family size to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 Thats why the condom was invented. It has like a 98% chance of working so for those who want to have sex and not have children, they should use em. (I'm talking about the adults) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Thats why the condom was invented. It has like a 98% chance of working so for those who want to have sex and not have children, they should use em. (I'm talking about the adults) Sadly, these countries have not yet been enlightened in The Way of The Condom. They're still brutal savages who like to have sex first, and then remove the unwanted pregnancy if it's a girl, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 My understand is that the brain doesn't start producing human brainwaves til the third trimester. That's why a lot of legal stuff kicks in at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__CKY__ Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I Agee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by Tyrion They believe all life is sacred. And run into a paradox, real, real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by ShadowTemplar And run into a paradox, real, real quick. Whatcha mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 What do you define as "human" brainwaves? Where is the level where they're not human anymore? Because some Alzheimers' patients have lower brainwave function that those first trimester babies. But we don't kill them for research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.