Jedi Outcast 2!

[Ack]

Reelo Baruk, Dessan, Reborn and those are cool, but i would like to see somewone that would actually be able to have the power over thugs all over the galaxy:

 

HUTTS!

 

Just like in mysteries with Kapa the hut, that was awesome!

 

Baldwin the jedi hutt (joking) finds the valley of the jedi

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by ackehallgren

Reelo Baruk, Dessan, Reborn and those are cool, but i would like to see somewone that would actually be able to have the power over thugs all over the galaxy:

 

HUTTS!

 

Just like in mysteries with Kapa the hut, that was awesome!

 

Baldwin the jedi hutt (joking) finds the valley of the jedi

 

Actually...when you sit down and think about it...it doesn't really make that much sense that Hutts have that kind of power. I mean, it only took a young woman with a length of chain to put a stop to Jabba. Physically, they don't even seem able to defend themselves from attack. You could argue that they have a lot of cold, hard cash and can buy the best protection...but they still have to survive long enough to make their mark and acquire the loot. It seems strange that they're so successful as a race...

 

As for game engine...they need something to fit the scale, not just something that looks pretty. The new Unreal tech can look really great...but it also has a greater performance hit on your hardware. I wouldn't mind at all if they traded some visual quality for better gameplay - and larger, more complex levels populated with more NPCs and/or enemies. And when it comes to the models of your opponents, does it really matter if it has 1500 or 6000 polygons? I think the polybump method seems to be the way to go...reducing the number of polygons, yet retaining high-res textures, and bump-mapping them (to varying degrees) to get the detail...

[Ack]

of course, your right, but they do have the power to rule over thugs and body guards... I mean, how threatening was Reelo Baruk?

[Hekx]

You could have a mission to talk to a Hutt, and he sets the bounty hunters out, then you eliminate the Hutt.

 

I think seeing more of the alien species would make the game more popular. After all Star Wars is packed with aliens. Plus it would leave more models already made, so more skins can be done, making it popular.

[Ack]

I would like to slash my lightsaber into an Ithorian (Hammerhead)

:D:D (or maybe a defensless little Jawa!)

[Silent_Thunder]

It's been awhile since I've visited these forums... Not many people left that were here since before JO was released it would seem. I'm surprised my name is still active.

 

Anyways; I personally didn't find the multiplayer in JO to be anything all that special. I honestly wish they would focus most on single player for JK3/JO2 since that seems to be what they did the best on in Jedi Outcast.

 

Some of the things I wish they'd improve appon in JK3 are:

 

Force Speed is far too cheap in single player... Especially on boss fights... Actually, it's so incredibly lame that I felt like I was cheating when I used it on Dessan. I suggest they either make force speed like it was in JK1, or make bosses be able to counter it, or weaken it substantially.

 

A better plot. I thought both DF and DFII had a very interesting and compact story. Maybe it's just me; but JO's wasn't too involving or interesting for the most part. Actually, I thought it started out VERY good, very creepy with the little clues as to what the remnant is doing, but quickly (right after Kyle gets his saber back) it becomes too obvious and feels too rushed.

 

Harder, and more numerous boss fights. Tavion was actually pretty difficult, and pretty fun. The main reason why fighting her was actually mildly difficult was because Force speed didn't slow everything down so much. Galak was pretty darn cool (reminded me of general Mohc), but even he was much too easy. Dessan was a TOTAL joke. Just turn on force speed and take out your heavy stance and you'd beat him in 15 seconds or less. I'm not saying they should make the bosses like JKI, where Jerec has 19,900 more points of health then Kyle, but the fights just need to be LONGER and more interesting.

 

I mean come on, even in this day and age we can't get a good MOVING boss battle? I was really hoping to get a really long boss battle that moved throughout a huge level, in sepereate parts, but instead got a tiny little boss fight in a little tiny room that took only 20 seconds to beat! I hope we can get something alittle better in JK3/JKII:x. Heck, even JKI had a Moving Boss Fight with Maw... What an awesome fight! I'd love to see something like that again with a good saber fighting system.

 

I was actually pretty happy with the level design, and puzzles in JKII. The only time it seemed to feel rushed was towards the end. The last 3 levels were far too short, and not very well detialed in my opinion. I mean really; the last level before Boc in JK1 was AWESOME, and pretty long... absolutely no comparison in JKII can be found. Other then that though, I thought the level design was extreemly good, and I hope Raven can make some levels on the same calibur (and better!) for JK3.

 

And my last and most stressed aspect for need of improvement is BALANCE, and more balance. Really, this is where the short developement time showed the most in JO. Balance between everything seemed unpolished. The Balance between force powers was terrible (though JK1s was also horrible, but that's not excuse). Force Speed was the ULTIMATE offensive, and defensive power in JO. It made battles FAR too easy, and overshadowed all force powers that should be used for offensive. Choke was 100% useless, except for alittle amusement every so often. Lighting was 100% useless untill you got level 3 lighting, but that wasn't even untill the second to last level! and what a short level it was... What a potentially awesome force power wasted .

 

The Balance between difficulty was also UNbalanced throughout all of JO. A room of storm troopers in level 4 of JO is infinitly more deadly then either Dark Jedi or Galak. Same would go for 3 or more reborns compared to Dessan (untill you use force speed ofcourse, then everything is so easy you can't even compare difficulties ). The game pre-force power was also FAR FAR harder then the game post-force power... mainly because of speed.

 

Weapon balance was actually pretty decent in SP though.

 

Anyways... enough of my rambling... To sum it up, I thought the multiplayer in JO was very uninspiring. The single player (which is what I bought JO for) was very good, though very unblananced (which killed some of the fun). It did show some remarkable potential though; given a more relaxed developement time.

 

If Raven could learn from their mistakes within the single player of JO, such as lack of interesting atmosphere, poor balance, weak (in all sense of the word) boss fights, incredibly lame force powers, ect, then an expansion, or sequal to JKII: JO could prove to offer the best single player game experiance since DF and JKII... or perhaps even surpass.

 

 

(Silent Thunder returns quickly to whence he came)

[ryudom]

i just want locational in SP and MP... like head shots = death and such.

[Doctor Shaft]

Silent_Thunder, it's like you've read my mind. In a nutshell, the game seemed to be a lot of fun flash and glitz, but when you used something that wasn't so fancy, like force speed, you could immediately tell that some things were mostly cosmetic.

 

Raven did a good job, but they were definitely lacking in some areas. This games multiplayer will be something that some will look at with a frown on their face for years to come, while others still are comfortable with what they have.

 

The next Dark Force definitely needs to go away from the cutsey graphics and return to the gameplay fold. Dark Forces never looked 'awesome'. It was impressive for what it was, but it wasn't mind boggling. What made it great was how it broke new ground. Finally a game where you could jump. Finally a game that didn't consist of demon Nazis, or just plain demons. With the missions, you were really immersed in the game... it didn't matter that it was just another fps with star wars guns... the gameplay and feel made it all.

 

JK also had that going on. While I personally hated the battle with Jerec (come on, I was slashing that geezer up for ten minutes, that was more a battle of how well can I use force heal and absorb to escape his el cheapo fast lightning blasts), the level preceding him was nice and long. MotS had the same thing going on when you go after Kyle. That was an incredibly long level, and the battle against Kyle was amazing (for those of you who didn't play MotS, I'll try not to ruin how the ending works). As far as I was concerned, the final MotS battle was THE best boss battle I ever had, except during the time I didn't figure out what to do. What impressed me most about it was just how long it took me. I mean, it's an first person shooter, so I'm not really thinking about alternatives to fighting, I just think "DBZ time!!! Destroy my enemy, super jedi level 4!!!!!", but anyone who played MotS knows that doesn't work.

 

Multiplayer definitely needs a system where people aren't relying a great deal on being able to jump and run. The powers should be made stronger, more useful, more 'spectacular', but also a great deal more power consuming. Push and pull abilities were cool, but as soon as we were giving the ability to do it six or seven times in close succession, people start get annoyed. There are certainly 'spammy' moments in JO. I know a single player game takes a lot of work, here's hoping though that if they take a VERY close look at how their multiplayer setting is. Having a patch crisis like JO had a second time is certainly not acceptable. They need to release a version that has a good solid vision as to what the game should be. A vision that allows the community of gamers, without a shadow of a doubt, to understand what the game is about, and how it should be played.

 

Games like Starfleet Command 2: Empires at War did this. This game had TONS of patches, and tons of issues that either weren't implemented or weren't working corrected. Regardless of that, there was a clear vision as to how the game was meant to function. Besides the usual scrub issues like "my photon torpedo doesn't hit enough" (it's a hard weapon to use), the community got on. I feel JO doesn't exactly have that. Oh well. Cheers.

[Naphtali]

First you people say the boss should be tougher then you say the saber fighting should be more realistic, make up your minds if anything the boss should use more technique than force powers, DEssan just push you around, and use lightning, reborn flip, and lunge all day, so the saber system shoud be improved, not lets give dessan 4999 points of health, then you slice him in the head and you only take 399 points. Step backward, keep it realistic.

[Silent_Thunder]

I don't want a boss fight like Jerec again... Where the Boss has 20,000 of your healths. What I want is a battle that is LONG, but FUN, and atleast somewhat difficult (and no, I'm not a l33T gamer, but I still felt Dessan was too easy).

 

I know a lot of people may not like this... but I personally would like a more scripted boss fight. Think Maw, but on a much broader scale.

 

Let me explain what I mean, I'll give an example of my ultimate boss battle... which I think is quite possible to do with the current tech;

 

The setting is in an ancient sith temple (for example).

 

You're fighting the last boss of the game. He is a Dark Jedi which you tracked down to the planet Massassi (whatever..), all the way into an ancient temple of the sith. (Don't ask me what he's doing there) He has roughly 500 health (you don't want him TOO easy, do you?). You begin the fight in a roughly rectangular structure--a normal "boss arena". This is probably the room directly inside of the Sith temple. There is a decending stair case on the far side of the structure. You begin to engage him in battle: The fallen Jedi uses a slower form of lightsaber combat, revolving around superior blocking ability, and slow heavy swings. He blocks most of your attacks, but you manage to lacerate your enemy with three solid slashes after two minutes of intense battle. That brings his health down to roughly 300. You're wounded but still quite on top of things.

 

Seeing he's at a disadvantage the Dark Jedi begins to retreat (he's programed to retreat after losing so much health). You could kill him now if you're fast enough, ending the level, but most likely he'll get away. As the Dark Jedi retreats to the decending stair case, he runs under an arch way and uses the force to pull the pillars supporting the archway down--blocking your path, and forcing you to find another way to get to him... and finish him off.

 

You have to find another way to get to him. You spend another 5 minutes or so exploring the maze inside of the ancient ruins of the sith temple. You heal yourself and get ready for combat. Along the way you encounter a few deadly nocturnal wolves, drawen to you by your scent in the force (forgot what that kind of wolf was called)

 

You make your way into the center of the ruins... a forgotten crypt of long dead sith warriors from more then a millenia ago are lieing within their tombs.

 

Out of the darkness you see the familiar glow of a red lightsaber, and hear the unmistakable sound of the ancient weapon being ignited. Your query; the Dark Jedi you hunted springs out of the darkness and fights with renewed power, increased agility and speed. For the second part of the battle he is using a much faster and more powerful form of lightsaber combat, which focuses primarily on offense, instead of defense.

 

With skillful dodges and parries you hold your own. Despite the Dark Jedi's fierce attack, you manage to beat him back once again. You land several more damaging blows, weaking him further. Out of desperation your adversary uses all of his might to summon the the ancient Dark Lords of sith from the slumber (undead sith like in MotS). The unded sith rise from their tombs, and engage you in lighting based attacks. The Dark Jedi retreats once again to heal some of his wounds while you are occupied. You easily dispatch of the animated corpses of the fallen warriors, and follow your weakened opponent to his grave.

 

For the last part of the battle you fight the Dark Jedi in an extreemly unstable part of the sith temple. Here the floor and ceiling is collapsing from merely walking appon it. The Dark Jedi uses a more balanced attack and defend strategy then before, employing any of his force powers at the best opportunety. As the ground begins to colapse, you are forced farther and farther back into the temple--lest you become trapped below.

 

Eventually both you and your opponent fall into the collapsing ruins (or else you could kill him before that happens, but unlikely). As the falling debres subside you find yourself trapped inside of a small structure with the Dark Jedi. After a terrific battle you finally vanquish your enemy. The cutscene shows him "exploding" with dark force energies (like the Emperor and that other dark jedi in the Thrawn trillogy) leaving a gaping hole in the ceiling; allowing you to escaple... the end cutscene is showen, ect, ect.

 

 

 

Back to reality for a moment... Actually; a boss fight like that is more than possible with the technology already available. The battle with Maw is really just a precursor of an awesomely detailed moving boss battle like the one I described I above (but hopefully better ).

 

Which kind of boss battles would you rather see; ones like the Star Wars movies that move from room to room (which is not hard to do, while still giving the player different options in defeating the boss), or static boss fights where you and your enemy just face off in a tiny arena and hack at each other (or use force speed ) for a few minutes untill either you die, and start over, or your opponet finally is defeated?

[StormHammer]

Silent_Thunder...long time no see, so welcome back.

 

That's a nice scenario for an end battle.

 

I think everyone pretty much knows my thoughts on so-called 'Boss levels' in the modern FPS. Being trapped in a (relatively) small chamber with lots of ammo/health pickups fighting a single Boss with lots of health and armour was fun back in the days of Doom. But the whole genre has moved on since then, and I totally agree that an Epic lightsaber duel through several chambers, if not an entire huge level, fits better with some of the duels we've seen in the movies... And I'll give you a real kicker, here...I don't necessarily see that I have to kill the Boss character myself. Some people would argue it robs you of a sense of satisfaction at defeating the villain...but for me defeating the villain should not be the sole focus of the story. In short, it doesn't have to be the very end of the game, with a closing cut scene. You could still go on to complete other objectives (like saving a world/city from destruction). Also, I rather like the idea of not being 100% certain that your nemesis is dead and gone.

 

Games are often still too Black and White...Good and Evil...but there's lots of room for shades of grey and uncertainties. You can still have epic battles, but their conclusion does not have to be the culmination of events, and sometimes you should just plain lose the fight, but live to fight another day.

[Guest Jolts]

I think the very nature of a star wars jedi game calls for some kind of mixtures of all the different game genres out there. Trying to lock it down into a fps game with a third player view option ends up hurting it more than advancing it.

 

The problem I see in most fps games is they havn't changed all that much since the days of duke3d, I'm ignoring the 3d part just talking about gameplay. But I guess when your in charge of a $5-15mil project you might want to play it safe.