Droids

[ultimaster]

I was just wondering what kind of role droids are going to play in this game. I know there is HK-47 (I think), but I can't remember if he's with you or against you. I was wondering if a droid would be usable as a party member, like having a driod to crack doors or codes, etc. while you hold of enemy fire, etc.

[Jedi Apprentice]

Well they have already said droids could join your party and we've seen the PC fighting against them so I think they will play a significant part in the game. We just don't know what part yet..........

[Thrift]

From memory, you can have in your party a neurotic assasin droid, and there are ye-olde screenshots of the torch-headed wheeled robot in your party too. But I don't know anything about him/her, other than that I think he/she is a bit of an R2D2

[Swat]

they can help u 2 slice codes n stuff like r2. maybe translating services frm that 3po look-alike!

[OttoSenjut]

I think (and hope) we will be able to have droids in our partys. from the screen shots ive seen there are assasin droids or battle droids of some sort. plus ive seen a couple ss with low tech R2 droids or something. i would think that a protocal droid, like C3P0 would be usefull on missions of politics and such.

 

this is what i think droids can do for your party.

Droids can battle for your party just like living members.

Droids hack into doors, computers, and info.

Droids repair things.

Droids translate languages.

Droids can provide energy.

Droids can serve drinks. hehe

And if nothing else can roll up and zapp things.

 

im not sure if droids can do all of these things in KOTOR. but from the detail that we have seen so far we can tell that bioware is serious about makeing this game very StarWarsy* and is doing everything they can to make us StarWars geeks and freaks happy. (and the stoners)

[Aerothorn]

I don't get this...if this is 4000 years ago, why are droids not a lot less advanced? I mean they shouldn't have talking droids, or droids with emotional simulators or serious cognitive capabilities...from looking at this game it seems like the Star Wars Universe has advance maybe 40 years in technology in 4000 years. Considering that its made up of millions of planets, instead of 1 like earth, its more like 1-4 years of technological advance.

[OttoSenjut]

thats the point. technology hasnt advanced much since KOTOR. The whole reason of creating a starwars game 4000 years before is more original content, ideas, and things and such without takeing anything out of starwars that makes it... starwars. what would starwars be without jabbering droids telling you your chances constantly or happily beeping R2 units rotateing around when they get excited? Plus Original content gives the sith planets to blow up that don't exist in the movies.

[Burrie]

Indeed, you can truly become the Luke Skywalker of a new era, or the new Darth Vader... you get to battle with the ultimate villain instead of a lackey... the worst bounty hunter can be on your trailer instead of the second best. It's stuff like that which will make this game so good. (IMO)

[Naphtali]

Besides Aerothorn this is 4,000 years before episode, and 21,000 years after the invention of Hyperspace or lightspeed, so ships have obviously been around droids im sure would follow within that time

[ultimaster]

That makes sense since the ships and hyperspace use astromech droids like R2 and others to calculate hyperspace coordinates and such. I like the idea of having a droid with you though, they could be so useful. I never played any of the Baldur's Gate gamesor any BioWare games actually, but I'm so excited about KOTOR I have to use the bathroom every 20 minutes just thinking aoubt it!

[Aerothorn]

Ya, I've heard the "it wouldn't be Star Wars" arguement before. And I say, so? I wanna see a new universe, what it was REALLY like. I mean 4000 years ago on earth it was COMPLETLY different then it is now. And this is in a whole galaxy, so with galatic trade technology would advance faster then on one planet like earth. Yes, they have ships(Though the timeline is pretty lame, IMO- nothing stays constant over 21,000 years) but I'm tired of all droids being 3P0 and R2 ripoffs. R2 was unique with his personality, most droids have memory wipes. Ditto withn 3P0. Yes there are droids like them in every Star Wars thing, its like a sterotype. When people see 1 of something they assume all the things are like them, and instead of proving them wrong those who make the backstory make it that way, for less confusion/thinking. I used to love Star Wars but maybe my brain is too advanced for it now....maybe it was targeted to dumber people? I dunno. I mean for instance everyone assumed that all wookies were like Chewbacca, and instead of proving them wrong they kinda went along with that....you can't slap a label on a whole race. Maybe some races, but not all of em.

[Katarn07]

According to the time lines, the SW universe starts 25000 yrs before the movies...

 

So they have the rescources, we don't and therefore can make stuff more quickly. We only have elements from 1 planet.

 

You know that table in science, we have 114 (i think) wlements. They may have one with 20000 some.... Durasteel, Transparisteel, Carbonite... stuff like that.

[Aerothorn]

Ya thats what I'm saying. So in 4000 years they should have advanced like, a bazillion years, it boggles the mind.

 

I suppose Lucasarts went the profitable way- it wouldn't sell as much if it didn't feel Star Warsy. I'm just sad that I couldn't see what the Star Wars Galaxy was REALLY like, if it was real.

[Katarn07]

They can't advance any further maybe. That 40 years of progression may have been done in 40-100 years, and then it looks like the PT and OT from then on. We don't know if it took all 4000 years for that to happen.

[OttoSenjut]

We all have our own opinions. Personally I think that we are lucky they made the game in this time line at all. I MEAN THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST REAL STARWARS FULL FLEDGE 3D RPG!! if not the old republic timeline then it would be the new republic timeline. We would be seeing the same things we saw over and over again from a new hope to rotj. I mean give them some time. this game is going to be successful and maybe that will spark more. You never know. Theres always going to be something about a game you think should be different just dont let it ruin the whole thing for you. But then agian. i dont care.

 

 

<---payed for by the friends of George W. Bush

 

 

[EDIT Taos] - Hardly appropriate, don't do something like this again.

[ultimaster]

The whole concept of a Star Wars RPG is new and it will be a ground-breaking game.

 

There may be room for a sequel at the end, but it might be a different kind of game. If this is a madly successful game, and I assume it will be, it will most certainly spawn more games like it and BioWare will become very busy I'm sure.

 

Give the game a chance and just let it draw you in. That's how game's are the best, when the story matters and pulls you in.

[Thrift]

If I am allowed I will repost a message I wrote in response to a different thread which kind of tackled a similar theme.......

 

 

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I do understand what you guys are saying, but you have to remember, technology does not advance in constant progressive development. It is in permanent fluctuation. If you were to graph out technological advances on earth, the graph would be more a mountain range that a steadily ascending slope.

 

Look at Ancient Egypt – Arguably their greatest architectural achievements (the Pyramids) primarily took place in the III Dynasty of the Old Kingdom (from memory – c.2700-2616BC). While later dynasties failed to achieve all but a shadow of their former greatness (with some pretty significant exclusions I’ll admit – Abu Simbel springs to mind as a seriously advanced bit of construction work – The Ancient Egyptians also built many more Pyramids after the III Dynasty, but none so large and always from inferior materials).

If you include the Ptolemaic Dynasties (which Egyptologists do), Ancient Egypt survived as a powerful kingdom right up until the death of Cleopatra in 30BC when Egypt became a Roman Colony – Over 2500 years after the construction of the Great Pyramids of the III Dynasty.

 

As one of the game designers pointed out (I forget who now, Casey Hudson I think – It was when I asked about why the architecture on Tatooine did not change after 4000 years) technology has reached a point where it is primarily at an equilibrium, where for every advance that is made something is forgotten. Apparently the Star Wars galaxy has been opened to space travel for 25,000 years. So, if you take all this into account, it is not just likely, but indeed a certainty, that while some aspects of technology are superior 4000 years later, some would also be inferior.

 

So anyway to step away from the history lesson, while it is likely that the Sith Troopers armour etc. is inferior, it is also just as likely that it is superior, as armour quality, just like all other technology, would be in constant fluctuation.

 

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See what I'm saying?

Droids, armour, architecture - It all lies under the same technology umbrella.

 

In some ways we today, some four and a half thousand years later, still can not rival the pyramids in terms of architectural genius.

Nor can we fathom the means of their construction.

 

We have been "civilised" for a relatively very limited period of time. We are still an extremely long distance from discovering the means of intergalactic travel. If indeed we can ever manage it (which I doubt - At least in a way that is akin to the Star Wars portrayal).

If cultures or species, from earth or elsewhere, were to discover a means of travelling such distances, they would doubtless have to be highly technologically advanced in the first place (far, far more so than we are now).

 

I do agree that there should be some significant differences in the appearance of some environments and species, yet from what we have seen thus far, I think they have adequately achieved such variation.

Though I guess I won’t honestly be able to give my opinion on whether I think it is enough until I have played the game.

*shrug*

 

[sorry for the long post!! Woops!]

[ultimaster]

thanks for the post!! Really good explanation, while long it was thorough. I knew driods were part of the game and thatt ehy would have a role, but I also thought of the skills, say if u wanted to donate your skills to combat then just have a droid for all the computers and gizmos.

[Hannibal]

Originally posted by Thrift

[sorry for the long post!! Woops!]

 

I've had history papers shorter than that. No need to apologize. Reading Is Fundamental.

 

OT- I think the problem isn't how the devs portrayed the tech in this game. I think the problem is it's not being portrayed how certain people want it to be. With all the novels and the 6(eventually) movies this is still not that detailed a universe. Bioware had freedom to created. GL has not created a detailed background for the SW universe. He created a background of his storylines. The rest is each individuals imagination and EU. That is why some are disappointed.

 

Honestly, there is nothing anyone can say to someone how isn't seeing or getting what they imagined they would.

[Aerothorn]

Good attempt on an explanation. Doesn't work, though. Face it: The reason its like this is Star Wars isn't real, and for marketing reasons they have to make Star Wars like the originals in any time period. I, too, would like an explanation that fits in with the rest of the universe, but thats the real one.

 

And technology didn't just stop progressing. The galaxy constantly expands- they will find new materials, new stuff. As for stuff being forgotten as fast as being made, that doens't cut it- almost all technologiclly advanced civilizations create records so stuff like that doesn't happen. They DO have the Holonet, for instance. Even if you did forget a lot you wouldn't forget at the same rate as advancment...the developer who made the excuse up is just too stubborn to admit that the there's a hole in the lore of the Star Wars universe.

 

[EDIT Taos - Take matter such as this to pm's].

[boinga1]

Originally posted by Aerothorn

Good attempt on an explanation. Doesn't work, though. Face it: The reason its like this is Star Wars isn't real, and for marketing reasons they have to make Star Wars like the originals in any time period. I, too, would like an explanation that fits in with the rest of the universe, but thats the real one.

 

And technology didn't just stop progressing...

 

if you view the sw galaxy as a scaled-up earth, then it is pretty reasonable. Swords have been in use by humans for thousands of years, becoming obsolete only in the last 500 or so years. battle tactics, especially around guns, were virtually unchanged for hundreds. we didn't have electric lights until about 100 yrs. ago. so technology here has only really kicked in recently (last 100-150 yrs.). those SW people aren't the brightest around (ie. Padme walks into the geonosis foundry and never uses her blaster...never even pulls it out), so it could happen.

[Rogue15]

We'll find out what its like when we play the game. The droid probably won't be able to do alot of things, he might not have a 'personality' and may seem more like a robot than a droid.

[Thrift]

Ouch - this post is long. Hardly suprising considering I spent over an hour writing it - (isn't being the only one in the house fun?)

Anyway, you've been warned - If you ain't interested don't read it.

 

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I disagree with you entirely there. You are not looking at this from an historical perspective at all.

 

almost all technologiclly advanced civilizations create records so stuff like that doesn't happen

Not true really. Many cultures on earth, ancient and modern, go to great lengths to obliterate traces of themselves and more regularly their predecessors. For a recent example look at the Taliban in Afghanistan destroying the colossal statues of Buddha because they predated their own beliefs and were seen as pagan symbols.

 

We should also perhaps not forget that nature will often reconquer all. The sands of time guard many of the secrets of our distant ancestors on earth.

 

Look at the conquistadors and their complete and utter annihilation of the ancient cultures of Southern America, and I dare you to suggest they were not technologically advanced, their temples and cities alone should be a testimony to their high degree of “civilisation”, and sadly, they did not leave many records. Civilisations will generally not “forget” by choice. Well not their own choice anyway, it will be the decisions of the cultures which supersede them. And throughout history, the vast majority of the cultures which have declined and fallen from the earth have done so due to war and conquest.

 

Another point I should add is that many civilisations in fact do not create records of their technology. Advanced technology is a very, very valuable commodity. Many superior technologies become fiercely guarded secrets (ie. The recipe for Coca-Cola and the Colonel’s secret herbs and spices ). And if the master of the craft dies without handing his secrets on to an apprentice, they are effectively lost for all time.

 

To expand on the point raised by boinga, look at the Japanese weapons of the Samurai. Their swords are another mystery, their sharpness and their insusceptibility to rust are marvelled at by modern science and technology, and they can not be rivalled, yet their have been many swords made since, in an age of “superior” technology, at least as we deem it.

 

Or, to return to my point from the previous post, modern architecture, science and archaeology can still not figure out, just how in the hell the Ancient Egyptians built the pyramids, particularly the ones located on the Giza plateau.

There are a number of theories, but only conjecture, and to the best of my knowledge, no one hypothesis is significantly favoured by scholars at this point in time.

Just take a look at the Great Pyramid of Khufu, what we’re talking about here is a stable structure made from around 2,300,000 blocks of solid stone, each weighing on average about two and a half tons. This feat of construction was achieved without the aid of modern cranes, or modern means of transport for the stone, most of which came from distant quarries in far away parts of the Kingdom. Until the construction of the Eiffel Tower (1889 I think...The World Fair - whenever that was), this was still the tallest man-made structure on Earth. And Mankind, has completely and utterly forgotten all the secrets of its construction.

The Pyramid or Khufu should not be considered a one-off either. Their were Seven Wonders of the Ancient World after all, and there were many, many more pyramids, some equally as perplexing for archaeologists as Khufu’s.

 

Even if you did forget a lot you wouldn't forget at the same rate as advancment...

No, you wouldn’t. You would forget far, far faster.

The main reasons that things would be “forgotten” or “lost” would be due to war, and outright destruction.

 

To use another example, which refers more to religious belief than to technology (but which illustrates the point – plus I might add that religion can at times also fall under technology in the broadest definition – If you’re a cynic); during the New Kingdom, a heretic named Akhenaten cast away the older religious beliefs of Ancient Egypt and attempted to turn the people to monotheism, and the belief in the divine sun disc “Aten”. This created great turmoil in the Kingdom, and eventually Akhenaten died, and what followed this was the systematic death and destruction of his legacy and the legacy of Aten. Akhenaten’s successors attempted to annihilate every trace that he had ever existed, and it is due to this, that in 1922 an archaeologist named Howard Carter discovered a small tomb entrance in the Valley of the Kings, and an almost entirely intact tomb was discovered, rather than the empty tombs which surrounded it.

Because Tutankhamun (the owner of the tomb to whom I was referring) was the heir to Akhenaten (possibly his son), all records of his existence were erased by those Kings who came later and restored the Egyptian beliefs to those which they had previously devoted themselves to.

It was due to his erasure from history, that in a rare twist of irony those who raided the Valley of the Kings in antiquity did not search for Tutankhamun’s tomb, being entirely unaware of his existence.

Within the short space of a few generations, the Ancient Egyptians themselves had forgotten that the Amarna period (as it is known) had ever occurred, and this era is now considered by many experts to have been the pinnacle of Egyptian Art, yet one hundred years after the turbulent period was ended, it was forgotten, and all its records destroyed (sort of...won’t go into it, I’m sure you’re all bored enough all ready).

 

But I digress. The point has been a while in the coming, but what I am trying to show you is the length to which cultures will go to eradicate history, either their own, or others, and technology certainly can fall under this category, as technology can be very much a symbol and representation of culture.

If you wish to eradicate all trace of a people or a civilisation, you will certainly eradicate their technology too, as this is an embodiment of their achievements and their existence.

 

Technology has never been a constant, nor do we stand at its pinnacle in all aspects now.

I apologise if I am overly ramming this point home to you, but it is better for me to explain with examples than to just simply state that it is so.

 

As I said before though, in some ways I agree with you, but from what we have seen so far I feel that change has been adequately shown, and regardless, we’re very much jumping the gun in suggesting it isn’t enough before we have even played the game.