The truth behond the Iraqi war

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

Hussain wants to be like Hitler.

 

How do you know? Perhaps he wants to be like Gengis Khan or Andrew Jackson.

 

 

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

For the most part I see a lot of US bashing from people in other countries on here and when it all adds up you don't like the US because of your own countries "propaganda".

 

Man, I'm with ya bubba! I'm glad we don't have that propaganda problem here in the USA! To all you foreigners: Nyaaa! Put that in your pipe and smoke it! [/facetious mode]

 

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

Lets a terrorist fly a plain into one your large buildings and see how your countries react... Assuming you are in counties that can build large buildings that is.

 

Kind of an ethnocentric remark, eh? I could say that with your spelling, it's a wonder ours is a country that can manage to build tall buildings. Perhaps we contract that engineering stuff out to smart Indian dudes. But I won't say all of that.

 

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

As for the people here who are against the US Hope you don't live next to any large sky scrapers because the terrorist don't care if your for or against your country they just want to kill you because your an American, because of the "propaganda" they are led to beleave.

 

The amazing thing is, that you really aren't far off in the sentiment in your last sentance. What we have to understand is that the "propaganda" has it's source in the ethnocentric attitudes that we Americans tend to have. We tend to impose our way of living and our beliefs upon the rest of the world, or we assume that the rest of the world is wrong for believing differently. Of course people hate us.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

What we have to understand is that the "propaganda" has it's source in the ethnocentric attitudes that we Americans tend to have. We tend to impose our way of living and our beliefs upon the rest of the world, or we assume that the rest of the world is wrong for believing differently. Of course people hate us.

yup. i for one dont get why people (american people) say that other countries hate us becuase of our freedom... actually i think that they hate us because we push our living style down their throat and if they rebel then we declare war on them saying they are terrorists. ****in pigs run our (U.S) government.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

If being brave requires leaving a tryrannical dictator in power where he can eventually get or perhaps already has access to WOMD's, then I hope the US is full of cowards.

 

i dont get it. you cant fight back against a guy at school who hits you, because it takes a braver man to not fight back(thats what parents say) yet when something happens to the countries "integrity" we have to declare war on all who'm we hate and can easily prey on. its the bully system we get picked on by someone we cant attack we find the next best thing, a smaller, weaker yet similar person (in this case Iraq)

[ET Warrior]

An interesting and valid point...yet i dont see it's significance related to my post.....I'm not talking about Saddam Hussein attacking us, or anyone attacking us... I'm talking about removing him to prevent the slaughter of innocents by his hands. Everyone will say it takes the bigger man to step in and stop the bully who is beating up the defenseless little guy..........

 

And yes, i agree that the United States is also a pretty big bully. We've made mistakes. So has everyone, let it go.

[Cosmos Jack]

Hmmm "SkinWalker" if you want to start talking about how the US has treated Native Americans. You're barking up the wrong tree. My mother was Cherokee. For a long time growing up I was disgruntle towards America for the past, but I grew up

 

I recognize the past is the past not the present. Things have changed. When my mother went to school she was teased. When I went to school it was cool to say you were native American in some way or another lol I don't know about you however.....

 

If by the picture your are implying you were in he military. Hmm so you are a hypocrite. Why serve a country you hate ?

 

I have been in the military as well. In fact if America goes to war I most likely will get recalled back into service. I did a recall in Jan. were they told me to watch for the orders just incase. So if anything I stand to be effected most by a war in Iraq. I like where I am and my life at the moment.

 

If it needs doing and I'm needed to help do it. It will be done.

SIMPER FI

 

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Kind of an ethnocentric remark, eh? I could say that with your spelling,

 

As for the cheep shot on my spelling that is kinda silly. I'm not willing to invest more time in this debate trying to fined your typos or the grammar errors of others. I would be here for the next few years. That's just silly. My former College English Professor has a PhD in English Lit. She was also born a raised in England and she still made mistakes "so I can too". Seem you have a lot of time on your hands to make such a fuss on my posts. I must have made a mark.......

 

Were you in the army? Now that I think about your posts read like a army guy's writing.

[Cosmos Jack]

Anyway "ET Warrior" how are the Avalanche doing

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

I'm talking about removing him to prevent the slaughter of innocents by his hands.

 

Then where will it end? There are many nations in the world with tyrants and dictators. There are many so-called democratic nations that violate human rights and murder their own people. Where does the U.S. government draw the line? Why does one group of people deserve salvation yet others do not? Why did we not "finish the job" with Somalia instead of pulling out with our collective tails between our legs?

 

The point of this thread is that it isn't he human suffering in Iraq that is motivating the invasion of a nation. It isn't the threat (real or imagined) that Iraq poses against the U.S. There is NO threat. I challenge anyone to offer any verifiable threat to United States soil by Iraq.

 

The real reason for invading Iraq is to secure their oil production and prevent OPEC from fully backing the oil market with the Euro instead of the dollar. The plans are already laid in to rebuild an oil industry that has yet to be destroyed.

 

I don't mind squashing an idiot like Saddam... we should've done it in '91, but again... the stability of the oil industry was at stake. At that time, the Euro was barely a concept. A chaotic Iraq (Kurds, Shiites, et al) would have had lasting effects on one of the world's largest oil fields.

 

I do mind trampling the reputation of my country. That's what the Bush administration is doing. The majority of the world is against us. The good will directed toward us from 9/11 is squandered and Bush has the audacity to bring up that date in his quest for power and glory, trampling the honor of those lost there.

[SkinWalker]

Let me be clear. I do not support a war directed toward Iraq based on the reasons given. I was in the first Gulf War. I served proudly in the 2nd Armored Div (Patton's Division) and supported the 2nd Marine Division with counter battery artillery.

 

I do, however, offer my FULL support of the troops involved in the current invasion, regardless of their nationality or their branch of service. Semper Fi, Hell on Wheels.

 

-Jack, you aren't qualified to rate my sentiment toward our country. You don't know me... I don't know you. I would not presume whether you hate or love.... just so you know, "hate" is not a word that enters my vocabulary very often. As I'm sure you were probably 12 or 13 during the first Gulf War, I can safely assume that you went into the Marines for a brief stint. I retired from the US Army and spent nearly two decades serving my country with duty, honor and loyalty.

 

It is my loyalty to my country that makes me speak out against what I see as wrong. Not hatred. It is my love for my flag that wishes to see it's reputation preserved. Not my hatred. It is the honor I owe the men I served with and the warriors I killed in battle that makes me want peace in lieu of war becuase it is realistic.

 

When you step into this thread and speak harshly to my friends, most of whom are not of our country, then I find it dishonorable. I do not think it is fair that they see only the loud, ignorant, and closed-minded representatives (not that you are any or all of these) of my country without my chiming in and demonstrating that some of us actually see through the media propaganda within our borders. Some of us actually see past the hard-line republican retoric.

 

Make no mistake: I am a warrior first. If they were to begin calling up retirees, I would be the first in line to go serve my country. Regardless of my sentiment to why I was there. That, son, is what loyalty is about. That is what America is about. Speaking our mind, but doing our duty.

 

Semper Fi and good luck to you if you're called up.

[BigTeddyPaul]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Hitler's middle name is Habib just like Saddam's!!

They both prefer wearing boxers!?!

Hitler was born on the 4th of January whereas Saddam was born on the 1st of April! 1 and 4, 4 and 1 - coincidence??? I DON'T THINK SO!

And if you add the last two digits of Saddam's year of birth to the number of days Hitler was waging war you get a total of 666!

 

And they both drink their coffee black!!! :eek:

 

OMG-OMG HOW 'BOUT THAT! Now me surely must kill all Iraqi people! Let'z go! Who's with me??

 

Smart ass. I love that about you.

 

I only read the first page and looked at the second and I am going to assume I read it. We are going to war. Bush has planned this since day 1. He is trying to get as much support as possible but isn't getting it. American journalism sucks the big one. What will happen? I don't know but I am pretty sure this time Saddam will not stay in power if we do go to war. If he does then the next "Bush" will just see it his duty to take out Hussein or his line. I am tired. It is 3:30 AM. Night all.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[BigTeddyPaul]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Semper Fi and good luck to you if you're called up.

 

This has nothing to do with the thread and more to do with that quote. I remember 9/11 as much as every other American did. I woke up at 6 AM because I was going with my mother to her work (7th grade home economics teacher) to use her internet because we did not have it at our house yet. I turned on my TV and saw on all the channels what had happened and was shocked. When we reached her school at 10:00 AM (2nd period) there was a TV showing the people jumping and the buildings collapsing. All the kids in the class were whooping and hollering and laughing and all I could think about was how much of a disgrace it would be if I was recruited and died for them because they think it was a joke. I honestly almost felt like crying because of the lack of respect they showed at the people's lives who were being affected. What was worse was that I had just turned 18 two weeks before this event and was already in college so I knew if this thing turned ugly there was always a chance things could happen.

 

Just my little story of one of the reasons I decided not to join the Air Force.

 

Braveheart: I ain't dying for these bastards.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[Cosmos Jack]

Well I'm going to give up on trying to convince all of you Hussein is a bad guy. It seems you all have a fern knowledge that he is lol.....For what ever reasons are for a war with Iraq oil, revenge, or human suffering. It is really irrelevant.

 

The guy needs to be taken out of power. I already know that the US made the man in the beginning. I already know about the Iran Contra Affair. So for the most you can sa yeah he is a our "Monster". So for that much he is our "Problem" we made him we need to fix him. If the terrorist and Iraq hate each other why would they attack us if we attack Iraq.

 

I know that a lot of negative sentiment in the middle east comes from the fact we don't do anything. We just buy Oil and defend Israel. We make all the countries dictators richer while they make there people poorer.

 

We should go dictator hopping go around the world and take these bastards out, but most of them already have nukes or have armies twice the size of ours. Not to mention the support of more powerful countries.

 

They see the US as the cause of there problems even though we don't interfere as much as people think. They see it as that. So as for Iraq they don't care if he is bad or good they just look at the US as BULLY. I did watch CNN; however, and they showed where at a Middle East Conference the Prime minister of Kuwait asked Hussein to step down. So we do have support if only from the country we rescued.

 

For the most part my final argument is this. Before I go to work.

Hussein is a bad guy lol He needs to be removed. If I was living in a country with a dictator like him, and I knew it was going to be invaded to take him out. I don't care why. Offcouse they don't know that. Hussein has them thinking were coming there to wip them all out. If anyone on here beleaves that your just STUPID.

[Breton]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

If the terrorist and Iraq hate each other why would they attack us if we attack Iraq.

 

 

Because they hate you anyway. And I do belive that the terrorists are wanting you to attack an arabic country, it will make you look terrible, and there will be more terrorists.

 

We should go dictator hopping go around the world and take these bastards out, but most of them already have nukes or have armies twice the size of ours. Not to mention the support of more powerful countries

 

Perhaps you would be so kind to mention any of these dictatorships with nukes and huge armies.

 

Hussein has them thinking were coming there to wip them all out. If anyone on here beleaves that your just STUPID.

 

I don't belive anyone here thinks you are going in there to wipe them all out. But I guess a lot of Iraqians do. That does not make you stupid. There is no way to not be affected by propaganda.

[CagedCrado]

Venezuela has the biggest oil reserve in the world. If we wanted oil wed invade them. They are in a rebellion so wed be in and out in one day for a tenth of the money and end drugs. If you think its for oil you are as bright as people in france. DOWN WITH FRANCE AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM. Im going to eat my very american freedom fries and go burn a french flag. Die france. You trashy drunks who wont even defend yourselves from germany TWICE.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by CagedCrado

Venezuela has the biggest oil reserve in the world. If we wanted oil wed invade them. They are in a rebellion so wed be in and out in one day for a tenth of the money and end drugs. If you think its for oil you are as bright as people in france. DOWN WITH FRANCE AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM. Im going to eat my very american freedom fries and go burn a french flag. Die france. You trashy drunks who wont even defend yourselves from germany TWICE.

you sir prove yourself to be an ass more and more with every post

[Breton]

CagedCrado, I will not say more than that you are a terrifying example on what ignorance can do to people's heads.

[CagedCrado]

You think that saddam massacering kurds while we sit around wondering whether or not we go to war is stupid? Why cant you people in europe just go along with a war against somebody we should have taken out before, he does lots of illegal things all the time. They are moral things, like the pot smoking freedom bs that all of you want. Im not blind. I am not ignorant. I see more of the truth than you do. I see how all of the europeans are just backing off because they did illegal things. Atleast we have the balls to say we did.

[El Sitherino]

you're full of so much ****. sorry for the language but hes got so much crap coming out of his mouth.

[CagedCrado]

How come all the people who see this site say the exact opposite of you? You are all partly right, i admit bush has done a poor job in not just going and kicking iraqs ass and leaving since afterwards everybody will praise us... but whether or not the war is right or wrong is not the question, its whether you will support not exposing illegal activities. If you notice, the only countries opposing the war are countries who have done illegal things in iraq. (france, russia, china, and germany [germany is questionable])

 

I do not just blindly follow the president just because hes the president. If you actaully looked into it youd see that many republican and democrats are pro war.

[El Sitherino]

uhm yeah america has done so much more things than any of those countries but of course the american educational system wont teach you that. one more time i will give this speech

the US government has done many horrible things. my grandfather was ordered to fire upon his own troops. by the president. in the gulf war my uncle recieved the same order. they both disobeyed the order and were sent to trial after the trial was dismissed they were sworn to secrecy but of course with this big of info who would be silent my uncle was also ordered to fire mortars into civilian inhabited areas. i saw videos his friend took while the war was going on so i know what war looks like. the civilian kills totally outweighed the military kills. many of the civilians killed (by american troops) were women and children. not to mention women were raped and beaten by many military troops and members these troops werent even sent to a trial. and you say that america is good and just. you sir are the ****ing idiot. you are ignorant you are a blubbering oaf who doesnt even deserve the right to free speech its people like you that make this world hell.

 

i would give you every single detestable thing but that would take 3 days. to give you the entire story and the facts to prove it. but my suggestion is to go to a university and take a reliable US history class but i doubt you'll find one.

 

oh by the way im an american and i wish you a horrible death thank you that is all

[CagedCrado]

No ****, i said the US did bad things. We never did the things that iraq has. Every country does bad things, but the united states is way up there for doing good things. We give more aid than all other countries in the world combined. We never take and colonize countries. oh ya and ill say it again

 

WAR IS BAD. PEOPLE DIE. THE OUTCOME OF WAR IS GOOD. 90% OF THE TIME. IF IT WASNT FOR WAR WED BE RULED BY GERMANS. I DONT LIKE WAR BUT MANY TIMES IT IS NECESARY AND IN THIS CASE THERE IS NO DEBATE WITH SUBSTANCE AGAINST WAR.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by CagedCrado

No ****, i said the US did bad things. We never did the things that iraq has. Every country does bad things, but the united states is way up there for doing good things. We give more aid than all other countries in the world combined. We never take and colonize countries. oh ya and ill say it again

 

WAR IS BAD. PEOPLE DIE. THE OUTCOME OF WAR IS GOOD. 90% OF THE TIME. IF IT WASNT FOR WAR WED BE RULED BY GERMANS. I DONT LIKE WAR BUT MANY TIMES IT IS NECESARY AND IN THIS CASE THERE IS NO DEBATE WITH SUBSTANCE AGAINST WAR.

oh yeah... then what was it that we did to the rightful owners of this continent(the native americans)

[CagedCrado]

What is it the british did to people in south africa? the belgish did to people in central africa? Australia? China? We were just doing our business, and we tried to live in peace. We are also the only country who gives minorities that we supress MONEY AID RIGHTS and JOBS. We give them so much its not even funny. We are extremely generous.

 

Many times more rights than we give ourselves, and americans were in movements such as abolishon and womens rights, we were one of the first countries to give women rights, and the only reason slavery wasnt common in other countries is because their economies were different. Not to mention how france england and prussia supported the south in the civil war.

[Breton]

Originally posted by CagedCrado

We give more aid than all other countries in the world combined.

 

That's a lie. Completely a lie. 16% comes from USA, wich is only 1% of their national budget. Get some facts next time you make a statement, k?

 

We never take and colonize countries. oh ya and ill say it again

 

That's because you're so young and all the land was already taken.

 

THE OUTCOME OF WAR IS GOOD. 90% OF THE TIME.

 

It's pretty much the opposite: The outcome of war is bad 90% of the time.

 

IF IT WASNT FOR WAR WED BE RULED BY GERMANS.

 

Bull.

 

1. If it wasn't for war, Germany wouldn't attack you in the first place.

2. They would never manage to hold all their land for more than a few years.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by CagedCrado

What is it the british did to people in south africa? the belgish did to people in central africa? Australia? China? We were just doing our business, and we tried to live in peace. We are also the only country who gives minorities that we supress MONEY AID RIGHTS and JOBS. We give them so much its not even funny. We are extremely generous.

 

Many times more rights than we give ourselves, and americans were in movements such as abolishon and womens rights, we were one of the first countries to give women rights, and the only reason slavery wasnt common in other countries is because their economies were different. Not to mention how france england and prussia supported the south in the civil war.

GENEROUS! GENEROUS! you call the rape, massacre, and cattling of innocent people who were here first living in peace and generous!?!?! do you realise how big of a crock of crap that is not to mention ignorant. as a proud cherokee and commanche decendant I wish the spirits destroy each and every bit of you. you ****in make me sick im sorry that i have to say that but what the white man did to my ancestors is far worse than what hitler did to the jews and far worse than what saddam is doing to his people. do you realise that the white man put my people into fires while tied up to poles. they raped the women then ripped out their uterus', they murdered tribesmen, they left children dying out in the sun. they threw babies into the air and shot them for target practice, they would burn the sacred lands of my ancestors and then desicrate on the ashes, they would then throw my people into a section of their(my peoples) land and say they are being generous!(they did this for hundreds of years) if i wasnt a good person i would hunt you down and butcher you! but i won't because i do not wish to free fall to your level.

[El Sitherino]

america was not the first to give women rights. first it was europe,then japan, then finally america 30 years after japans 80th anniversary of giving women rights. of course europe cut the rights but then reastablished them before america.