Saddam Hussein

[Heavyarms]

I don't feel that this forum really does not know about Saddam, so I am going to speak on this man, and try to show to this forum how evil is kept inside this man, and even if he has no weapons of mass destruction, the thought of how EVIL he is should be enough for anyone to get him the hell out of power. What? Don't all of you anti-Iraqi's think he isn't a threat, or your oil is too important? I'll prove to you all that him and his sons need removed.

 

1. Saddam has killed his own people with gas- thousands of them. It is time to free these people from such evil things.

 

2. For entertainment before he goes to bed, Saddam watches executions and people being gassed to death. WHAT KIND OF MONSTER DOES THAT?

 

3. The Kurds, the group of people Saddam that live in the north- have been gassed and killed by the truckload. An oppressed people needs to be helped, it should be reason alone, but it does not appear to be. Shall I continue?

 

4. No doubt, Saddam has instructed his republican guard, all 120,000 of em, to camp in people's houses around baghdad. What kind of person tells his soldiers to camp in his OWN PEOPLE'S houses?

 

5. He is so afraid for his life, that he holds meetings underneath civilian houses so that he won't be targeted.

 

6. His sons are just as evil. His one son watches women being raped as entertainment.

 

7. He is in control of Europe's oil supply. I think this asset needs to be stripped from him, and I think that it has already happened. The US doesn't need Iraq's oil.

 

Personally, I think all those reasons are enough. My soldiers are fighting for their lives to help me. Don't support them, and you have just asked for them to be given a death wish. I don't wish for any more soldiers to be issued such a solemn judgement, so it has happened, and I have supported it, and now have given all the reasons I know of. I think those are enough to remove him. If it was twelve years ago, no one would think what we were doing was bad, would they?

 

"Evil men will triumph when good men do nothing."-Edmund Burke

[Sherack Nhar]

.......I thought you would know better than to start yet another thread about this theme after all the complaints.

[Fishflesh]

Do you even know what the USA has done in the past?

 

much worse things than saddam

Thay started this all

 

and even helpt saddam in the past!

for there own purpos

 

and where did you get the info that his sone is watching video's of raped women??? from the usa?

[Breton]

Evil does not excist, it's just a false religious thought. No person is evil, because it's not in human nature. Even Saddam and Bin Laden does what they belive is best for the world, so they're not evil. Now, I'm not going to comment anything else, except:

 

7. He is in control of Europe's oil supply. I think this asset needs to be stripped from him, and I think that it has already happened. The US doesn't need Iraq's oil.

 

Perhaps you could scource that BS? Thought not. For your information, USA imports more oil from Iraq than the whole Europe does.

 

Scource: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html

 

And in case you didn't know, Europe has a much larger population.

[pbguy1211]

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

Evil does not excist, it's just a false religious thought. No person is evil, because it's not in human nature. Even Saddam and Bin Laden does what they belive is best for the world, so they're not evil.

 

So then you don't believe in good? Because you can't have one without the other... if they were doing what's best for the world then they could at least feed their own countrymen and not let them starve to death. Don't give me that crap JM.

[Snafu7]

I agree with pbguy1211

[Breton]

Originally posted by pbguy1211

So then you don't believe in good? Because you can't have one without the other...

 

Precisely.

 

But just think of it for a moment. The US belives they are good and Saddam is evil. However, Saddam belives he is good and the US are evil. You see? This is enough evidence that he's not evil, because you can't be evil unless you know you are evil.

[pbguy1211]

so it's good to kill your own countrymen for fun and enjoyment? I bet you were a big fan of Hitler's too...

[Tie Guy]

Alright, Qui-Gon, if good and evil do not exist, then why have laws?

 

If you truly believe what you say then you can't think its wrong to murder or steal or rape, because it's just what the perpetrator thinks is best.

[Zygomaticus]

I don't think Saddam really thinks he's doing what's right. He's doing what makes his life more fun to live, more pleasurable.

 

Now, a person like Bin Ladin - he is doing what he believes is right.

 

I remember, Saddam once said something around the lines of "I may be looked upon as an evil dictator now, but 200 years from now, I will be regarded as one of the great men in history"

 

[DarthMuffin]

The USA did a lot of stupid thing, but don't forget that Europe would not have won the WWII without their help...

 

They should not have started this war, they'll get a lot of trouble (terrorists, possibly)...

[Breton]

Originally posted by pbguy1211

so it's good to kill your own countrymen for fun and enjoyment? I bet you were a big fan of Hitler's too...

 

For one thing, I'm starting to wonder where you hear all that crap about Saddam being a sadistic monster. Second, I'm not saying killing your countrymen is good, (though he have his reasons for doing it), but as long as he belives it's good, he's not evil. I'm suprised how long it takes before you get my point. And about that comment about Hitler:

 

Alright, Qui-Gon, if good and evil do not exist, then why have laws?

 

Because a community could not work without them. Laws are made to ensure the safety of a nation.

 

Anyway, if evil does excist, then tell me: What is evil? Alright, let's say you say killing is evil. But what if you kill a guy who's running towards you with an axe he's planning to put through your head? Will it then be evil to kill him? And you might say killing in self defense isn't evil. But what if you kill a guy who's planning to kill you? In one way, that's self defense, in another way, it isn't. And what if Saddam buy some nukes and nuke the entire USA? Would that be evil? But it's certainly self defense.

 

And what about killing others because they want to be killed? Is that evil?

 

My point is that if you just think about it, there is no good and evil, there is no right and wrong. There are only opinions and different views of things.

[Zygomaticus]

My point is that if you just think about it, there is no good and evil, there is no right and wrong. There are only opinions and different views of things.

 

I agree. There is no good, there is no evil. When you judge a person, unless you judge it from their point of view, you will never know why, you will always be a "judgemental person."

 

So how about we not use the word "evil" and begin to call him a "person doing things for his pleasure by inflicting pain and mysery upon others"?

 

I don't think he thinks he's doing what's right.

Need such a man exist?

[pbguy1211]

Seeing you're an aethiest I'm not going to argue good and evil with you, it's a pointless debate and we have 2 different opinions. however...

 

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

Even Saddam and Bin Laden does what they belive is best for the world, so they're not evil.

 

I didn't know you're a mind reader... so the next time you think you know the minds of a dictator of a small country, or a billionaire leader of the biggest terrorist organization on the planet who hides in caves, do me a favor and slap yourself hard enough to bring yourself back to reality. Because you have no idea what's going on inside their heads so don't pretend like you do.

[Natopo]

I must agree with some facts that people have brought up: Some of what is said about Saddam in the first post is not true, but should you take out even the most evil (or something that would seem bad) things he's done, isn't that still bad? We have proof that he does kill people in Iraq with bio weapons with almost no reason.

[Rogue Nine]

This discussion is all well and good, but let's keep the conversations civilized, shall we. Oh yes, and while the points about good and evil are quite valid, let's please stay on topic and not digress, all righty? Else this thread's goin' the way of the dodo.

[Heavyarms]

Thank you, Rogue Nine.

 

Now to counter on a few points:

 

NL Ackbar: As for Saddam's sons, don't you know if the father believes something is right, even though it is pretty disgusting, it mgiht transfer to the son's? Learn some psychology, my friend. If his father does stuff similar in nature, then he has a good chance to do it too.

 

"much worse things than saddam"

 

By this, I am assuming you mean the atomic bombs, am I correct? Well, the alternate plan was for a 2nd D-day, and although it was not something that was good, it was better for the world in the long run, just as I believe even though 9/11 was a atrocity, it benefits the US in the long run, as it has increased security.

 

"Thay started this all

and even helpt saddam in the past!

for there own purpos"

It was another soviet-US skirmish. The soviets supplied kholmani, while the US supplied Saddam, as the LESSER OF 2 EVILS.

JM-QUI-GON-JINN:

"Perhaps you could scource that BS? Thought not. For your information, USA imports more oil from Iraq than the whole Europe does."

 

Umm, would you like to source that BS? The US gets most of its oil from Venezuela and Argentina, and from its reserves in texas and alaska(although not as much as from venezuela) Arab oil, which I doubt comes from saddam saying he hates the US(thank you Krkode), is like 15% or so.

 

And as I've said, but no one believes me, is that France and Germany do not want war because they have oil contracts with Saddam (don't hold me 100% on Germany, but France definately does)

 

But still, I don't recall the US gassing its own people, although I can remember us opressing some, but we didn't outright kill them!

Saddam has done that.

 

I think what trooper was right, you guys are really sympathetic to Iraq and Saddam, even though I have already proven he's a MONSTER, and as for your good and evil crap, if I just walk up and stab someone 15 times, I guess I just killed them cuz I'm jewish, right, Jinn?

[Breton]

Originally posted by Heavyarms

By this, I am assuming you mean the atomic bombs, am I correct? Well, the alternate plan was for a 2nd D-day, and although it was not something that was good, it was better for the world in the long run, just as I believe even though 9/11 was a atrocity, it benefits the US in the long run, as it has increased security.

 

But tell me: What the helheim was the point of dropping the bombs in the middle of civillian cities? You could just bomb a military place, but noooo....

 

Umm, would you like to source that BS? The US gets most of its oil from Venezuela and Argentina, and from its reserves in texas and alaska(although not as much as from venezuela) Arab oil, which I doubt comes from saddam saying he hates the US(thank you Krkode), is like 15% or so.

 

I gave you evidence that USA imports a lot of oil from Iraq (close to 450,000 barrels per day), but still, you deny it. You said Iraqian oil is really important for Europe, but doesn't really matter for the US. But I gave you proof that USA imports more oil from Iraq than Europe, and thereby your point gets unvalid.

 

And as I've said, but no one believes me, is that France and Germany do not want war because they have oil contracts with Saddam (don't hold me 100% on Germany, but France definately does)

 

But USA have much bigger oil contracts with Saddam.

 

But still, I don't recall the US gassing its own people, although I can remember us opressing some, but we didn't outright kill them!

 

Sure you haven't! *cough*Indians*couch*

 

and as for your good and evil crap, if I just walk up and stab someone 15 times, I guess I just killed them cuz I'm jewish, right, Jinn?

 

But you wouldn't stab him without a reason, would you? It is only extremely rarely people kills without reason, and in those cases, the killer has a mental disease, wich is a sickness, not evil.

 

 

I belive that if you think another person is evil, you completely lacks the ability to see things from that person's view.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

1) That depends on

a) Does he consider them his people? That will be like when the Romans killed Christians. Using ur logic, u would be accusing the Romans of killing thier own people, as the Christians were a good minority of the Roman Empire's population.

However, I tell u that the Romans did not consider the Christians thier people, becuase thier people worshipped the Roman gods.

Same with Hitler. He was definetely a bastard who killed innocent people, but he didn't consider them to be his people .

b) If they were rebelling or not.

 

2) How do u know that?

 

3) see 1

 

4) I don't see the problem with that. In just about every war in history soldiers have used civilian buildings as cover.

 

5) a) Not what I read in the newspaper

b) Prove it

c) If u were him, would u go into the place in Baghdad that will probably be among the first targets for US troops?

d) Finally, if it is true, and my previos point be ignored, it will show that he is a coward, not that he is a monster.

 

6) Prove it

 

7) So??????? That statement is simply idiotic. JM's point aside, it will be like, say, the ice-cream man comes and stops in a poor neighborhood with no shops. The children rush out to buy icecream. But suddenly the police come and arrest the icecream man. The reason? The icecream man was the only source of icecream into the nieghborhood, and there is a possibility that the icecream man will try to take advantage of this.

 

8) There is no need for this thread.

[Heavyarms]

1a and b: there were no rational reasons whatsoever, besides to test his new weapon. Ever heard of Chemical Ali?

 

2. You didn't know that? That's a proven fact, I don't have a damned source, but I know it is true.

 

3. They just kinda want their independence, I mean, no real reason to fly planes over and drop gasses and kill them.

 

4. I bet that isn't true. Vietnam, WW1, Civil War. And if it was even done, not to the extent Sadam is.

 

5. That information is reportedly obtained from a traitor inside of Sadam's regime, i.e. wednesday's cruise missile attack. Also, the meeting in which he was broadcasted was from a bunker under a civilian house.

 

6. Ever heard of psychology? If a child is abused or not treated properly, bad things occur. It has happened to his sons.

 

7. Too bad the US has acted to put bans on Iraqi oil(not sure if those went into effect, but there were definite bills attempted to stop it)

 

 

I reiterate my point about you guys liking Sadam or something,

he is a sinister man, what the hell's the matter with you guys?

 

And as to Jinn's statement on atomic bombs: Well, after the first one, they didn't surrender. What makes you think a military base would have been better?

Plus, I don't recall us pulling out weapons and just start shooting indians, but maybe someone from another country knows more about my country than me. Could happen.

[C'jais]

Lessee....

 

Since WW2, France has used their veto power a total of 6 times. USA, on the other hand, has obstructed UN interventions a total of 70 times. 38 of those in connection to Israel, which they as the sole and only member of the UN opposed the idea of acting against Isreal's breaking of UN resolutions.

 

It sounds familiar, doesn't it? It sounds just the same as this war, except the tables are turned this time.

 

Israel has had over 30 years to remove themselves from their occupied territory. They've commited crimes against their own people. They've tank shocked Palestinian cities. They've broken more UN resolutions than Saddam has.

 

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."

 

-Ariel Sharon, in an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956

 

Their prime minister is a racist pig as worthy of execution as Saddam is.

[Tie Guy]

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

But tell me: What the helheim was the point of dropping the bombs in the middle of civillian cities? You could just bomb a military place, but noooo....

 

Hiroshima WAS a military place (not sure if there were troop centers or production facilities or what not, but it did have military elements), it was just in the middle of city. Now, why would you put a large military compound in the middle of a city? Because you think the enemy would never bomb it.

 

Sure you haven't! *cough*Indians*couch*

 

Andrew Jackson has absolutely nothing to due with Bush or America today. Thats the great thing about Democracy, the failures of one President don't have to carry over to the next. It's a different country today than it used to be, the same can't be said for Iraq in the past 20 years.

 

I belive that if you think another person is evil, you completely lacks the ability to see things from that person's view.

 

You know, i'm really trying to see things from a rapist's point of view, but no matter how i look at it, it is evil. I'd really like to hear you talk you're way out of why raping isn't wrong or evil.

 

Oh,a nd i'd hope you realize that there is a difference between killing and murder. Killing isn't always evil, but murder is. War, for instance, or self-defense, isn't neccessarily evil, but killing someone in cold blood is. How can you possibly say it is not?

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Heavyarms

And as to Jinn's statement on atomic bombs: Well, after the first one, they didn't surrender. What makes you think a military base would have been better?

 

Civilians are civilians are civilians.

 

Plus, I don't recall us pulling out weapons and just start shooting indians

 

Selective memory perhaps? Could happen.

 

Maybe you should try remembering how exactly you got all the land you did. The Indians sure as hell didn't just give it up.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Tie Guy

You know, i'm really trying to see things from a rapist's point of view, but no matter how i look at it, it is evil. I'd really like to hear you talk you're way out of why raping isn't wrong or evil.

 

No, I'd like to hear you explain to me why raping is evil. Because it hurts other people, right? And why is that evil?

 

No matter how you twist and bend it, the only way you can explain this is by postulating that there's a higher code of morals of sorts. A higher judge, if you will. The concept of evil was invented to justify the violence and punishment.

 

Most animals have had no need to invent such concepts (except those living in tribes, such as monkies) - are they evil too? Do you have any idea how much brutality goes on in the animal kingdom? It's survival out there, and your cultural constructs bears no meaning in such an environment.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Tie Guy- Why nuke the whole city? Why not bomb just the bases?

In other words: U are somewere in town. A man in the town has a detonator with which he going to blow up ur whole family, but for some strange reason or another he is only able to do it in about 5 minutes time, so u still have some time.

He is standing in the middle of a crowd of his friends. Now his friends are pacifist. In order to get to him u don't shoot through them, do u? U find another way.

 

 

1) Okey-dokey. I'll type out all my stuff, complete this time, so u can see for urselves of what the USA has done to it's civilians in the name of science or defense. Expect it in a few days.

 

2)

 

3) Maybe not quite as harshly, but I'm sure Bush won't just twiddle his thumbs if Calfornia suddenly became independent.

 

4) What the...? My friend, that is how street-fighting is war is done.

 

5) Fair enough, let's say that u disproved points A&B. But there are still C&D.

 

6) It could happen, but u have not proven that it has happened in this specific case.

 

7) Still haven't answered to me. That was just arandom comment about Americans and Iraqi oil.