EMpower

[razorace]

Gees! Doesn't ANYONE press P (the standard Third Person Toggle) or READ MANUALS anymore?! MotF still has the standard third person view for those who want to use it. I don't beleive in removing or restricting options so there's no way I'd FORCE True View on people.

[shock ~ unnamed]

I'll grab the beta and check it out.

 

My main concern with the saber throw bug is not related to the new duel game type or it happening in FFA mode.

 

We still will run g_gametype 3 at times (duel) and I was concerned with the bug effecting game play when you are forced to have spectators due to the game type (FF dueling is impossible with VAM or JA due to this).

 

Mainly what your mod seems to provide that I'm after is a way for say 4 people who want to duel Full Force to be able to do so while the rest of the server runs around in a FFA.

 

That alone is worth the download.

 

Personally things like grapple, jet packs and double sabers are a nice novelty but for competitive clans we have to run things on default when we practice because league matches do not allow anything other than default cvars.

 

So long as emotes/grapple/jet packs/double sabers and other non base jk2 things can be disabled in the server.cfg this mod would suit us perfectly.

 

Thanks for all the info and once we have it in I’ll post any bugs and whatnot we discover on your forums.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by razorace

Gees! Doesn't ANYONE press P (the standard Third Person Toggle) or READ MANUALS anymore?! MotF still has the standard third person view for those who want to use it. I don't beleive in removing or restricting options so there's no way I'd FORCE True View on people.

I read ALL the docs man, I didn't see that in the cvars.txt.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

Personally things like grapple, jet packs and double sabers are a nice novelty but for competitive clans we have to run things on default when we practice because league matches do not allow anything other than default cvars.

Well, the default settings for Full is going to be different from Basic. Example, jetpacks in Duelers use the shield energy for fuel, in basic it defaults to using 5 shield per second, in full it will be 1 shield per second. In Basic, the grapple is defaulted to always being on, in Full it will be defaulted to only in non-duels, etc; etc.

 

Not only that, there will also be a variety of presets, so that means a variety of defautls as well. The more feedback we get from basic, the better full will be. If anyone thinks the default settings should be changed to something else, you can post about it in the forums & we just may change it.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

So long as emotes/grapple/jet packs/double sabers and other non base jk2 things can be disabled in the server.cfg this mod would suit us perfectly.

 

Thanks for all the info and once we have it in I’ll post any bugs and whatnot we discover on your forums.

Good to know, be sure to post any suggestions as well. We have a variety of forums & I check the at least a couple times a day.

 

1 last thing, did the JA coder ever come back? I PM'ed him about this thread & I do not see any posts from him since my first post.

[razorace]

hmmmm....Looks like that's not obvious from the last released version of the documentions. Sorry about that, it's like teaching, if most of your students aren't getting it, you're doing something wrong. I've already cleared that up in the lastest documentation and have posted several threads about this on the forums.

[ASk]

/me thinks this thread should be split and the first part - closed.

[razorace]

probably but what's the topic of the split thread?

[Marker0077]

The topic would be "Cool mods that won't destroy the JK2 community".

[razorace]

....for 500.

[zERoCooL2479]

After reading all that yappin', I came to one conclusion...

 

WHAT THE F DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?!!

 

Seems like anything I made for the mod, you people seem to say some bad things about it. Constructive critisizm I can deal with. The fact remains that yeah, a lot of the servers are running JA Mod. So how come there is no congrats for that? I feel pretty damn good that a lot of people like the mod and there are so many servers running it. Destroy the community you say? Well I say bah to that! Why do you think Raven released the source code in the first place? So we can make mods...Do you think they gave us an ultimatum saying "Do not make anything that administrates the servers because some n00bs might get a hold of the password and be a jerk on the server." ssssss....It is true that I made this mod just for the JA, that was my job...However, receiving immense amount of e-mails about releasing it public I agreed to do so.

 

 

Marker0077: You can use the commands with the "all" parameter when activating it. Duelers Mod is a good mod and I definitly think it can bring some more light to the game. :-)

 

So, to all in this thread I ask you of one thing. If there was anything you wanted me to change in the mod and I mean CHANGE and not some BS answer like "erm...throw it away chosen" what would it be? I'm being serious here..So please give some serious answers.

 

Thanks!

[Prime]

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479

Do you think they gave us an ultimatum saying "Do not make anything that administrates the servers because some n00bs might get a hold of the password and be a jerk on the server."

If only they had

 

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479

If there was anything you wanted me to change in the mod and I mean CHANGE and not some BS answer like "erm...throw it away chosen" what would it be? I'm being serious here..So please give some serious answers.

 

Thanks!

Well, I'll take a stab at this. I jump around from public server to public server, so I've come across several mods. Please excuse me if I talk about something that isn't a part of your mod (and please point it out). And also correct any incorrect assumptions or mistakes.

 

First of all, I do not wish to criticize your work. It is not garbage in any way. However, in a lot of cases I feel it has fallen into disreputable hands. Let me state that I play for fun, not to roleplay. There are a couple things that I would like to see removed (at least for non-Jedi Academy servers):

 

Empower - I guess I don't see the need for it, from a "discipline" perspective. It seems to only be used by admins to either humiliate players or tip the game in their favor. If they just want to prevent "lamers" from playing on their servers, they should rely on the kick and ban commands.

 

Emotes - I guess these are more a result rather than cause of a problem, but it drives me nuts that servers now have players that run around trying to kiss me, and so on.

 

Those are two off the top of my head. But the question I have is, what was the purpose of making this mod for the Jedi Academy? What abilities did the JA need that weren't available in the original game?

[zERoCooL2479]

Originally posted by Prime

If only they had

 

Well, I'll take a stab at this. I jump around from public server to public server, so I've come across several mods. Please excuse me if I talk about something that isn't a part of your mod (and please point it out). And also correct any incorrect assumptions or mistakes.

 

First of all, I do not wish to criticize your work. It is not garbage in any way. However, in a lot of cases I feel it has fallen into disreputable hands. Let me state that I play for fun, not to roleplay. There are a couple things that I would like to see removed (at least for non-Jedi Academy servers):

 

Empower - I guess I don't see the need for it, from a "discipline" perspective. It seems to only be used by admins to either humiliate players or tip the game in their favor. If they just want to prevent "lamers" from playing on their servers, they should rely on the kick and ban commands.

 

Good point, but would a lot of people switch to JA 1.3 if this command was no longer available?

 

Emotes - I guess these are more a result rather than cause of a problem, but it drives me nuts that servers now have players that run around trying to kiss me, and so on.

 

Yeah, I hate that too...but what can you do, just do a kick to them

 

Those are two off the top of my head. But the question I have is, what was the purpose of making this mod for the Jedi Academy? What abilities did the JA need that weren't available in the original game?

 

These are good things to talk about. What will make it better. When the JA first began, we ran vulcanus. I wanted to change vulcanus so it was cleaner and somewhat more personal to the JA. Hence version 1.0, it was big upgrade from the vulcanus because of the "more emotes" and more admin commands, which were added just for our entertainment and security. Some how, there was a leak of this mod send to a bunch of people and with that and the asking for a public release, I decided to do so. It was a big hit, so I kept creating more. Under no circumstances, have I received any complaints about the mod from people joining servers and getting put to sleep, then red DFA. None of that was brought to my attention till a few says ago with this thread. So why now, why all of a sudden people care? I guess it is because of the success of the mod (a lot of servers are running it) and more people are encountering problems.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479

So, to all in this thread I ask you of one thing. If there was anything you wanted me to change in the mod and I mean CHANGE and not some BS answer like "erm...throw it away chosen" what would it be? I'm being serious here..So please give some serious answers.

#1)When admins use the sleep command (not users using sleep emote), the person sleeping SHOULD NOT take any damage.

 

One of the things that childish admins do is sleep people (sometimes newcomer n00bs who don't even know they're joining a mod server) because the admin labels them as "lamers", then the admin sleeps & kicks the crap out of them. The n00b (after going through this a few times on various servers) loses interest in JK2 alltogether & thus destroys the JK2 community. This can all be avoided if admins are just not allowed to kick the crap out of people that they sleep or humiliate them in any other fashion.

 

The purpose of the sleep emote is to get the users attention, not humiliate them like a child would on a playground. I think it would also be a good idea to have a sleep.txt on the server (like MotD, except it gets shown to those who are being slept, this can be server rules or something to that referance). This should get the users attention & show them the server rules, etc; etc. If the user persists, they can be booted or banned from that point. ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT IS ABUSE OF ADMIN POWERS.

 

#2)Commands like terminator, or empower, or anything that gives 1 person an advantage & not everyone else IS A CHEAT. Those should be changed in someway to make it more fair. For example, perhaps make it so that when the terminator command is used by the admin, everyone gets whatever, or, maybe make a cvar for allowing/disallowing everyone to use the command. I'm not sure, but 1 thing i am sure about is NO ONE should have power over others, it's cheating any way you look at it.

 

#3)The emotes. This in part pertains to Prime's post. The problem with emotes is people use them at the wrong time, like if you are in a saberlock, people use an emote to get out of it, etc; etc. What Lee does in Duelers is make it so that you can ONLY USE AN EMOTE while at a stand still. He didn't do all the fixes Spectrum/BOFH did for JediPlus or what Mars did for VAM, there was no need to, by making it so that you can only use emotes at a stand still eliminates all other problems with emotes, including Primes kissing one (unless he's at a stand still, for that perhaps you should make it so that the non-kisser can back out of the emote, this way if the person doesn't want to be kissed, he/she can attack the kisser while they are still in the emote - that should prevent them from using the kiss emote on users again).

Originally posted by Prime

But the question I have is, what was the purpose of making this mod for the Jedi Academy? What abilities did the JA need that weren't available in the original game?

A ton of things. Mostly admin commands, the next JA will feature a ban fix from Duelers so admins can ban 1024 IPs instead of just 18. This alone will get a ton of people switching from VAM or earlier versions of JA to the new JA.

 

Chosen One: I also HIGHLY recommend you make a cvar for allowing people to see the remaining HP's at the end of duels/private duels or perhaps deaths altogether, but not in the center of the screen like it is in JediPlus because that is annoying to have something in the center of your screen while you are trying to play. I'm sure Lee would have no problem with helping you out with that if you need it.

 

Now I know you won't do this, but this is the main thing that holds me back from playing JA/VAM. Don't allow admins to change the individual damage settings. It should be by ravensoft standards from the version of their option, but don't let them change those things man. GAWD I hate that.

 

Anyways, hope this helps. As for JA not having smooth gameplay, perhaps we can help out with that too but first we need tofigure out where the problem is.

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479

Under no circumstances, have I received any complaints about the mod from people joining servers and getting put to sleep, then red DFA. None of that was brought to my attention till a few says ago with this thread. So why now, why all of a sudden people care? I guess it is because of the success of the mod (a lot of servers are running it) and more people are encountering problems.

I don't think so. I think the reason why it's so big is because they can do everything VAM can do & more, that's it. It's a server-side only thing. 1 thing I've noticed with Duelers is the amount of people that DO NOT join because they don't have the mod. I played for about an hour & a half today, there had to be at least 10 people that couldn't join because they didn't have the mod & that's just within an hour & half.

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, you have to realize that people will normally only say something about it when they are pist, or if it's a n00b it's happening to, they won't even know to come here. Since you get people saying "JA sucks" in with some others who point out what is in their opinion to be flaws with the mod (such as myself) , you may take it the wrong way & not see it as constructive critisism but just another JA basher.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a modder to man, I know what some of the crap people have to go through to do the things they love to do. I've seen guys who have had to give up their girlfriends to mod or code, we all pull our hair out with frustrations with bugs in the mod, & then you get some guy who doesn't like 1 feature & starts bashing on your work - so ya, it's real difficult to not take these things personally at times, but you need to try & remain professional about it.

 

The 1 thing I want you to keep in mind is by allowing yourself to get upset by these bashers, you are giving them what they want - screw them if they just want to piss & moan, ignore them, don't take it as some guy insulting your work, take it as some guy who just lost to a n00b so he want's to piss & moan at you because you are the modder. People like this are just one of modders obsticales, do not dwell on it, keep your eyes on the prize & the road ahead of you should be much easier.

[Rumor]

Chosen One: I also HIGHLY recommend you make a cvar for allowing people to see the remaining HP's at the end of duels/private duels or perhaps deaths altogether, but not in the center of the screen like it is in JediPlus because that is annoying to have something in the center of your screen while you are trying to play. I'm sure Lee would have no problem with helping you out with that if you need it.

 

been done already. its in 1.2

[razorace]

Personally, I'd just do features to actually add to the game instead of admin commands that have a suspect motive/purpose.

 

More Ban Addresses: fine, but you're probably banning too many people if you need more than 18 at a time.

 

EMPower: Absolutely unfair. Now, there are situations where you might want certain people to be more powerful but it's not something to needs to be done on-the-fly by an admin. You could do it as a sort of player controlled handicap or as a new gametype. Say "Jedi Purge", where one person is "Vader" and tries to kill everyone else at the same time.

 

Emots: Fine, except they shouldn't have the ability to screw up the gameplay (like Marker said above).

 

Punishment Commands: Unnessicary, this isn't the state correctional department. If someone is being abusive warn->kick->ban. That's all you need. Now, it's understandable to have a "prover" function to show that you're the admin and you mean business, but it shouldn't have a gameplay effect. A "God-like" voice screen message to the offending is good enough.

 

@$$loads of Cvars: Confusing and often Abusable. When you get to the point where a player can hop onto a server and NOT know what the settings are at, you've made too many options. People want to play the game, not spend all night looking for server with "good" settings.

 

In conclusion, players play to have fun not jump onto a server and discover that the admin is using godlike powers to mess up the game or find that their favorite move has suddenly become as effective as harsh language.

[shock ~ unnamed]

I said it on the first page (or second) and I'll repeat it again.

 

Leave empower if you want just make it like "the destroyer" command in base jk2. If it is enabled *all clients can use it.

 

People can still train and whatever with it this simply eliminates admin abuse.

 

Notice how no *players are chiming in with "boy do I sure love playing on servers where there is a guy running around in God mode killing me"?

 

There is a reason for that.

 

 

 

eliminate the punishment commands

 

Can you honestly give me one solid reason why admins need the ability to make players suicide (your head just exploded!)?

 

Can you honestly give me one solid reason why suspending a person up in an invisible grip and having the admin stand over you calling you a "fag" is a more productive and effective means to eliminate troublesome players than /kickban?

 

 

Sure people using emotes to exploit saber special move delay times and things like the grip-emote-side kicks are annoying but I would gladly put up with that compared to being put to sleep by some bitter 14 year old and called a "fag lamer" while 3 of his buddies strut around sabering me.

[NerfYoda]

I dig on that suggestion posted earlier about no damage to sleeping people.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by razorace

EMPower: Absolutely unfair. Now, there are situations where you might want certain people to be more powerful but it's not something to needs to be done on-the-fly by an admin. You could do it as a sort of player controlled handicap or as a new gametype. Say "Jedi Purge", where one person is "Vader" and tries to kill everyone else at the same time.

VERY GOOD IDEA, very good idea. It's not something I would recommend for Duelers, but if this is something that Chosen One feels should be implemented into the game - this is definitely the best way of going about putting it in there. Good thinking Razorace.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

Notice how no *players are chiming in with "boy do I sure love playing on servers where there is a guy running around in God mode killing me"?

LMAO - point well said.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

eliminate the punishment commands

 

Can you honestly give me one solid reason why admins need the ability to make players suicide (your head just exploded!)?

 

Can you honestly give me one solid reason why suspending a person up in an invisible grip and having the admin stand over you calling you a "fag" is a more productive and effective means to eliminate troublesome players than /kickban?

 

Sure people using emotes to exploit saber special move delay times and things like the grip-emote-side kicks are annoying but I would gladly put up with that compared to being put to sleep by some bitter 14 year old and called a "fag lamer" while 3 of his buddies strut around sabering me.

Again back to the removal of punishment commands. I don't play this mod or VAM, so I was unaware of it, but yes, just another thing to add onto the "destroying the community concept" - admins have no business doing this to users. Just like Razorace says warn, kick, then ban. Anything other than that is admin abuse & admins shouldn't be given the ability treat users like dirt.

 

Chosen One: Just in case you are worried about people being upset with the removal of these commands, I wouldn't worry to much about people not downloading the new version of JA because you removed these abusive features, you are helping the community by doing so.

FACT IS, the next JA will be the ONLY server-side only mod with the new ban code fix & that alone will attract tons of admin attention. Mars has no interest in continuing with VAM, all the other coders have their own projects & are not going to limit themselves to a server-side only mod, so you literally can do whatever you want & you will still get everyone to switch to the next version.

[Buzz Vader]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

I said it on the first page (or second) and I'll repeat it again.

 

Leave empower if you want just make it like "the destroyer" command in base jk2. If it is enabled *all clients can use it.

 

People can still train and whatever with it this simply eliminates admin abuse.

 

Notice how no *players are chiming in with "boy do I sure love playing on servers where there is a guy running around in God mode killing me"?

 

There is a reason for that.

 

 

 

Actually, at the Jedi Academy we do have people saying that. We've had times where one guy is empowered and everyone else is trying to kill him without killing eachother. That's what you call having fun. You know enjoying yourself. Not spending your time online whining about fanboys or lamers or n00bs. And not going around bragging "yeah I took care of these stupid lamers, check out my demo" or "I tried to crash their server" Elitist pricks who think the game should be played their way or the highway are no better than the admins they complain about. People acting like jerks and saying they own the players aren't really inspiring anyone to stick around those servers either.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by razorace

More Ban Addresses: fine, but you're probably banning too many people if you need more than 18 at a time.

 

You haven't seen my banlist then...

[shock ~ unnamed]

Tip about online gaming:

 

Not everyone who plays games does so to pretend to be the DOOM Space Marine or Darth Chewbacca, some people (actually most) play to win.

 

For some people winning is fun.

You tend to see this attitude in things like...sports.

 

 

 

And before you stick your foot any deeper in your mouth I'll remind you that more people are supporting the suggestions I made than they are supporting leaving things unchanged.

 

In another attempt to remind you of things already blatantly obvious I simply helped a guy who had a run in with two of the biggest racist ***holes I've ever met, get a little revenge.

 

Wow ****ing sue me for trash talking a couple of pricks and beating them at their own game to make a guy feel a little better.

 

And as for your "Elitist Prick" comment you could not be farther from the truth.

 

I am one of the few competitive players who actually takes the time and helps people when they ask for it.

 

Everything from "how do I put colors in my name" to complex combos, I've constantly taken the time to help people on these forums and in-game for the better part of a year and not once have I ever mocked a person unless they started acting like an ***hole.

 

Even when we are playing in our server I always let "newbies" win because I feel bad that the other 9 guys in there are beating the crap out of them so I make sure they get at least one win on each map.

 

So please guy, just stfu and don't even try to lump me in with people who you've had bad experiences with.

 

Anyways, /ambackontopic

 

Do I dislike the punishment features of JAM and the way they are abused?

 

Yep, so do 3 of the top coders in the JK2 community in case you haven't noticed their posts in this thread.

 

Did I offer 2 constructive suggestions to remedy the problems I have?

 

Yep, and ironically those 3 guys suggested almost the exact some thing themselves.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

And as for your "Elitist Prick" comment you could not be farther from the truth.

 

I am one of the few competitive players who actually takes the time and helps people when they ask for it.

 

Everything from "how do I put colors in my name" to complex combos, I've constantly taken the time to help people on these forums and in-game for the better part of a year and not once have I ever mocked a person unless they started acting like an ***hole.

 

Even when we are playing in our server I always let "newbies" win because I feel bad that the other 9 guys in there are beating the crap out of them so I make sure they get at least one win on each map.

 

So please guy, just stfu and don't even try to lump me in with people who you've had bad experiences with.

 

 

he does exactly that. he freaking taught me ffs

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by Buzz Vader

Actually, at the Jedi Academy we do have people saying that. We've had times where one guy is empowered and everyone else is trying to kill him without killing eachother. That's what you call having fun. You know enjoying yourself. Not spending your time online whining about fanboys or lamers or n00bs.

Granted, there may be a few people out there that actually use the feature the way it's supposed to be, but I think you are missing the point. The point is, most do not. Like Razorace says, this type of thing belongs in its own gametype that way all the clients know that that is the kind of game the host is playing.

Originally posted by Buzz Vader

And not going around bragging "yeah I took care of these stupid lamers, check out my demo" or "I tried to crash their server" Elitist pricks who think the game should be played their way or the highway are no better than the admins they complain about.

I don't know where this came from, I think this is common knowledge & don't see why you felt it was necessarry to cover this, but ya, it's lame to crash peoples server(s) just as much as it's lame to abuse admin powers.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

And before you stick your foot any deeper in your mouth I'll remind you that more people are supporting the suggestions I made than they are supporting leaving things unchanged.

Whoa - timeout dude. They guy was talking about your Notice how no *players are chiming in with "boy do I sure love playing on servers where there is a guy running around in God mode killing me"? comment, all he's saying is there are some people out there that use it the way it was intended for - nothing else. The guy is not accusing you of anything (at least that's not the impression I was getting), so there's no need to leave derogatory comments to the guy, furthermore, you should read the forum rules sometime. Folks here aren't as leanient as they are at JK2Files.com so I'd watch what you post dude, but it's your account, if you want to mess it up - that's your decision.

 

I discussed with the JA coder about a client side cvar that makes it so that commands like empower can not be used by admins as long as clients have their cvar turned off. Chosen One liked the idea a little, but decided it's not something he could use because that would make JA a client & server-side mod - so that's a no go.

This gametype idea of Razoraces is right on the money in my opinion. Users can see right from their in-game browser, GameSpy, ASE, or whatever what kind of game the host is playing. With it set up this way, everybodys happy.

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

You haven't seen my banlist then...

Ya, the JK2Files.com admins have to add & remove IPs from the JK2Files.com server everyday, so they are entusiastic about the new version of JA.

[razorace]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

You haven't seen my banlist then...

 

My statement stands. Either remove the older bans or don't ban so much.

[shock ~ unnamed]

I think if an admin needs to have a ban list capable of more than say, 30 clients they should think about locking the server and making it a private pass worded server.

 

I mean it’s their server to do with as they wish but if you need a list to ban say 150 people then chances are the only ones who you will ever see are your regulars so just pass it and make it private to save time and headaches.

[Marker0077]

Like I said, I think it's Asty at JK2Files.com that admins the JK2Files.com server & he told Lee that he has to remove & add IPs to the banlist everyday, so he's excited about it. Asty's not a strict guy so I'll take his word for it if that's what he needs to do, I trust his judgement. He also runs a few of his own servers, however, I don't think he will be using the mod.

 

Anyways, I don't run any servers myself, nor administrate any so I don't really know how that goes, but again, I think Asty would make the right choice.