Aoshi Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Yea, I'll have to agree with the rest of the TWL guys here. 1)Pull is really overused and it's effects negate the point of absorb. Pulling can be done continuously and when two defenders couple it with team energize, a flag carrier can be pulled indefinitely and completely stopped in his tracks and easily killed. 2)Energize is too easily spammed. Please if this force makes another appearance put a timer on it or make it so that the exact amount of force donated is the amount received and you dont receive quirky bonuses that can be exploited to fully regenerate the force pool. 3)Rage should not make you invulnerable. If this force reappears the speed and weapon bonuses are quite fine, but it shouldnt take 8 direct hits with both golan balls to kill a rager when it takes only 1-2 on a normal person and 4 on a person using protect. 4)If protect reappears please make it so that it costs a certain amount of force and does not require a force drain. That kind of defeats the purpose of protect doesnt it? I mean if you leave it on for more than 20 seconds you do not have enough force left to absorb any damage 5)I agree with petr who talked about the random factor of the golan. I hated that i would be on my target and fire only to miss by just a little bit. 6)Increase saber damage and uphold that area of gameplay, but PLEASE dont nerf our aspect of gaming (full force CTF) in favor of others. We never complain about them and we never whine about "that person dfa'ed me so i want the dfa nerfed" so next time if you decide to make a patch please dont influence another aspect of gaming (ctf) just because duelists complain when they cant get out of the way. 7)I also very much so agree with Logan on the aspect of sticking to walls. I hated that I would be strafing along full speed and then accidentally bump a wall and stick to it thus completely reducing my velocity to zero (and even moving me backwards a bit). 8)Please if the rocket launcher reappears, do something about the rocket exploit (where you get a partial circle with secondary switch to saber switch back to rocket and fire primary) 9)Please make more and bigger open maps where we can jump around and enjoy playing. So many maps are incredibly small or cramped that they are very hard to enjoy. Also if you make another smaller type map like CTF_Imperial please never again put a large shield booster in the base. This makes the game take FOREVER as there would be at times 30 minute + stalemates 10) Also please in the next installment find some way to make the force powers heal/drain/lightning somehow useful. For example make heal a certain force requirement (about the same as mindtrick) that will slowly regenerate health over a period of 20 seconds. that way a capper could turn it on before he entered an enemy base and then constantly receive health as he's being chased away. Instead of push or pull i think drain should be the only force power that can somewhat penetrate absorb. what i mean by this is if an enemy flag carrier comes to your base and you have drain, and he has absorb on you can drain him and drain for 1/3 the amount that you would normally be able to drain for. So if I Drained an opponent of mine using my entire force bar he would lose 1/3 of his. This way Drain could be used strategically to weaken flag carriers and would be somewhat useful. Lightning I suggest be replaced with Destruct so that it can be used somewhat as a weapon but is a very slow moving orb but causes mass damage that bypasses absorb when it hits (or maybe absorb can absorb all the force used but not the damage?). 11) Also if it's possible i would love to see a point system that takes into account assisting a flag carrier. It would be a system that detects if you shot or used force on an enemy within a certain proximity of the flag carrier or if you used some force power directly on the carrier. Not that points are overly important but this bonus would be nice. 12) A system that showed the percent of hits you have made with each weapon would also be nice. Although this is completely unneccessary it would be a neat addition. In conclusion I really loved JK2 as it was my first FPS. This game has completely changed my perspective about online gaming and although i didnt agree with the constant patches and changes i still stuck with the game because it was unique in that it had force powers which added a whole new strategic element to playing instead of simply running around with a gun. I hope that you (Raven) improves saber combat as much as possible, but i also implore you not to neglect us the competitive aspect of the community. We are the ones who promote the improvement of newer players and we are the ones who provide new and interesting tactics that are later emulated by the rest of the population. Without the competitive support of a game it will never grow beyond it's infant stages so i ask you to include us when you think about the game so that Jedi Acadamy can reach its full potential and be a landmark in gaming for years to come. BF_Aoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Of Course i have heard of DSBR I'm not saying that yous are unsuccessful, You were always da best of da best but (Phoenix was my fav , he still there?) they pretty much sorta failed to make an impact on people compared to jk1, WD and BSB were always inferior and everyone kenw it - Everyone had heard of Dsbr but msot people in jk2 had never heard of any of these clans and therefore that might mean - not a big impact. I'm quite sure was ASC was more popular yet unsuccessful compared to dsbr. Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Agreed. I bought JK (ie DF2) shortly after it was released but neglected the multiplayer aspect until about 6 months before JK2 was released. Up until then I had played occasionally, a few role-playing games (Drazen, Barons Hed etc) a bit of Spork craziness, but generally not much experience of JK multiplayer (or any multiplayer for that matter). Then I was challenged for a game by an experienced player, I thought "what the heck" and gave it a go, needless to say I was completely owned and it was frustrating to say the least. But the first thing I said after the game was: "teach me how the heck to do all that". Shortly after I realized just how incredible multiplayer JK was. The odd thing was, the most enjoyable (and addictive) part was the gunning. Soaring through the air picking people off with the Concussion Rifle using force seeing to see people moments before they emerged from round a corner. pure class. Obviously there were issues, the bug of "super-gripping" and the ease of which it was to cheat meant you could never really be sure if the games were being played on fair terms, yet the game still remained addictive. Because despite balance issues, there was nothing like the pull/push of JK2 to make the game completely frustrating for even the best players. So when I heard of JK2 I wanted more of the same, but enhanced, both graphically and in terms of game balance. JK2 for the first couple of months was close to delivering, push/pull were a novelty at that time and nobody had really mastered kicking. Times were good, but then (and I don't know if this is directly related to the patches) people starting relying on "cheap" and boring methods of winning the games. It was no longer about lightening reflexes, skill, timing or accuracy... CTF suffered mostly I believe, pull/push became an easy way for beginners to beat even the best, every strategy which was adopted by the competitive community to counteract this annoyance were quickly shouted about on just about every JK2 forum, aka the endless "selfkilling is so lame" threads. Good gunners had to put up with clans of beginners exploited the kick-vote feature to take over public servers and kick anyone who they deemed "dishonourable". Now, like all of the above members of the competitive community, i'm awaiting Jedi Academy with anticipation but also caution. So far the game sounds interesting to say the least, but so many of the features mentioned could easily become the source of numerous exploits and gaming agrivations. Raven, please don't neglect gunners in Jedi Academy, we've all but stopped playing JK2 because we were neglected there. At the very least give the state of push/pull and dark rage some serious consideration, CTF should be about teamwork just as much as speed (in my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Yep, I still think it was a bad idea to take out the map (makes force seeing useless) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetR- Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Originally posted by Aoshi 7)I also very much so agree with Logan on the aspect of sticking to walls. I hated that I would be strafing along full speed and then accidentally bump a wall and stick to it thus completely reducing my velocity to zero (and even moving me backwards a bit). 8)Please if the rocket launcher reappears, do something about the rocket exploit (where you get a partial circle with secondary switch to saber switch back to rocket and fire primary) 9)Please make more and bigger open maps where we can jump around and enjoy playing. So many maps are incredibly small or cramped that they are very hard to enjoy. Also if you make another smaller type map like CTF_Imperial please never again put a large shield booster in the base. This makes the game take FOREVER as there would be at times 30 minute + stalemates 7 Totally fix that wall glitch, it really was a pain. 8 That was another big pain, someone just locking down a person, and firing the same rate as primary with no aim? That glitch really bothered me alot. 9 TOTALLY take everything in that paragraph into consideration. Have the center vest/armor in the middle, and add smaller shields scattered around and in the best. (not to much though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSbrLogan Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 actually tormentor newbie dsbr rarely played jk2 on the zone. i must assume that you think the zone is the center of the universe for jk2 considering your level of obvious newbieness. truth be told that considering the client/server nature of the quake three engine playing on one persons host is one of the least intelligent ways to play jk2 i can imagine, one even less intelligent being playing dsbr with all its starters playing. instead of the zone the actual good ( i say good becuase they had some idea of what was going on, if you were to compare them to dsbr then you couldnt call them good ) players instead used such programs as gamespy3d and allseeingeye to search for games. this allowed people to play on real servers with close to equal ping. you can go back to the saber herd and ignore this thread now tormentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff 42 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. I hope Raven takes into consideration the needs of the competitive/gunning players when they make this game. As far as weapons go, most of them are good already. I especially like the disruptor and the Bryar and hope they are not changed in the next game. The weapons that I would suggest changing significantly or getting rid of are the stun baton (worthless), the Golan (doesn't really feel like a DF series gun, and can be annoyingly spammable), and the missile launcher (the concussion rifle and the rail detonator in JK were both much better, I thought). Maybe bring back the concussion rifle in some form. Also, the lightsaber definitely needs to be more powerful, but that does not mean that people who foolishly insist on using only the saber in all-weapons games should be able to rack up as many kills as skilled gunners. For Force powers, I think a good solution to the push/pull madness is making it so you have to target someone with your crosshair to affect him. And something should be done to Rage to make it less annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Logan, I only played JK2 on the zone once..... very first day. Also i've been very loyal to ASE, been using it since it was first public cause of the great pings and flag images (so you don't go on a cs server with a bunch of germans) And i spent most of my time playing jk2 on Hermes then going (got slagged because of the way i play ), you can ask any swampie about that, i only used the zone for jk1. Especially with all this passport crap that's flooded it, it's only good for chess now The zone is no way to play jk2 and suggesting that i didn't know this is just a cheap attempt at insulting me. Yeh, and my name is terminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alarm Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Disruptor damage should be increased. also, tormentor != terminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Originally posted by DSbrLogan actually tormentor newbie dsbr rarely played jk2 on the zone. i must assume that you think the zone is the center of the universe for jk2 considering your level of obvious newbieness. truth be told that considering the client/server nature of the quake three engine playing on one persons host is one of the least intelligent ways to play jk2 i can imagine, one even less intelligent being playing dsbr with all its starters playing. instead of the zone the actual good ( i say good becuase they had some idea of what was going on, if you were to compare them to dsbr then you couldnt call them good ) players instead used such programs as gamespy3d and allseeingeye to search for games. this allowed people to play on real servers with close to equal ping. you can go back to the saber herd and ignore this thread now tormentor Keep the flames down please. There is no reason to be condescending like that and telling someone to leave a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSbrLogan Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 terminator are you a euro or from some other foreign to the usa country? also id like to be able to pick up guns for ammo in the stock game and not require a mod to change that. you have no clue how it was pointless trying to control areas when you cant even pick up a spawned weapon to keep the enemy from picking it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Yep, Scotland. And i also thoguht the not being able to pick up guns as ammo was a pretty hasty decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSbrLogan Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 ah no wonder then you dont have any point of reference. supposedly "pg" was the best european clan to play jk2. well one of our members "matt" defeated "pg.retry" really badly in a euro server. so while matt had 200+ ms lag compared to retry's 50 matt still easily dominated him. dsbr > all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twl.Sphinx Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I'm sure everybody is enthusiastically enthralled by "Darksaber success", but it is not, after all, the point of this thread. Damn dude..Please go flame on TWL...not in this thread. -Sphinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Of course pg would get beat, Dsbr are far superior and i'm no fan of pg. Anyway time to get back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4ulo Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 I just hope this game doesnt turn out to be a saber rpg game, its true that its funny in the beginning but after that its just boring. Take a look at some of the vids that were made. Im not going to write what i think bout all the force powers, but indeed something should be done with force push/pull. The game became a force power whoring all the way, rage whoring, push/pull, auto team energize whoring, etc etc And in my opinion, one of the most important things for the multiplayer topic - We need more than 4 maps, in jk2 case only 3 maps were playable cause almost everyone hated the imperial one. If nothing is done with the force push/pull at least make less pits in the maps, but more maps. Also and since its a q3 engine, do u know how boring it is to make a vid without the possibility to do a fast forward/rewind while seeing the demos so we can extract a few secs of a demo. We all know its star wars, sabers and force powers existence is a requirement but changes need to be done so we can have some skill in the game. Finally i ll add that i agree with almost every post above mine (matt, aoshi, petr, det, logan) , forgetting about the flame posts, which should be deleted to make this thread a little bit more serious. edit: All the weapons should stay, all but the impregnator one, forgot the name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisfan Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 As the point of this thread is to suggest the ideas of the competitive community to Ravensoft in the hopes of improving on the predecessor JK2, I would like to request that all flames and nonrelated replies to be deleted so that our ideas can be taken more seriously. Other than that, I agree on points made by Aoshi, a bar where u can see how much % u have hit would make people maybe practice their aim more. Hopefully at least. Again, radio messages plus a personlocator would be very very nice and make the ctf game more decent. Oasisfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Yea... it'd probably be better that on the off chance Raven actually checks this thread they'll find constructive ideas instead of pointless flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 It would be useful if the players locations could also be a variable that could be used in speech binds (I think xmod may have featured this). So players can easily announce to their team where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSbr-matt Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by P4ulo Also and since its a q3 engine, do u know how boring it is to make a vid without the possibility to do a fast forward/rewind while seeing the demos so we can extract a few secs of a demo. yes this is also a MUST FIX. the q3 engine allows us to view the console while watching a demo and type commands in as the demo plays. it also allows for us to press f1 to f12 so we can bind commands to those keys to use during demo playback. This makes editing movies a hell of a lot more easier. in jk2 if you press any key at all.. the demo stops. we can't even bring down the ****ing console. also pls remove the stupid "shift" + "~" combo to bring down console and put it back to just "~" like in q3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twl.Sphinx Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 If nothing else, the demo player needs to at least be able to pause, rewind, and fast forward. -Sphinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetR- Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 I agree, if raven wants to take consideration into implementing any of our ideas, flaming must be down, and should be deleted immediatly. High hopes for raven. What has been in development so far looks awesome, and I know it will kick ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 How about this, so Raven will take our ideas seriously, I'll take all the good/correct points, research the threads, compile and edit the points. Afterwards I'll post it up as a gameplay specifications document (or in other words what should be done about different areas of gameplay; gametypes, weaponry, etc...), then get some feedback from you all for any points missed out/points which should be changed and edit accordingly. Only serious comments please. Does this sound reasonable or acceptable? Will Raven even take these points into account being so far into the development of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Personally, I highly doubt we can change what Raven is doing this far into the game. I mean, they've got a lot of it down, and may not be able to go back and do some of the things we want. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jedi220 Personally, I highly doubt we can change what Raven is doing this far into the game. I mean, they've got a lot of it down, and may not be able to go back and do some of the things we want. *shrugs* We want vs Should have. Otherwise more patches will come having to do the same thing, just later on. Perhaps Raven should think about letting certain groups for testing prior release (Gaming teams/Editing teams)? ; ) Unless Lec is against that then I suppose there's nothing that can be done except wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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