Gameplay Suggestions

[boinga1]

Well if all sabers were one-hit kills, then what would be the point of yellow or red stance? Blue is faster and, if it did the same damage, why would you use the slower stances?

[OB1 KNOB]

With the default damages the Red stance is generally most effective (in multiplayer) because of increased damage. People who want to kill quickly would generally choose this stance to get the kill. Plus Red stance normally breaks down the opponent’s defenses.

 

I'm just saying that it would be nice to be able to choose lightsaber stance based on preference rather than efficiency. It is a lightsaber and no matter how fast or hard it passes through something it still cuts cleanly through and should damage accordingly. Hopefully this will be in Jedi Academy with the inclusion of the new saber styles. Making one style, or stance, stronger than the others makes people biased in their decision for what stance to use. It would be depressing and dull to see everyone only using two sabers because they are stronger than other stances as it would be equally depressing to see everyone using single saber because of any blatant disadvantages that could be included with new styles. Making everything equal and balanced allows for people to choose the style that suits them the best and also allows for players to have the variety of the new styles without having to worry about not causing as much damage as another style or not having as much defense as another style. Every style should be capable of blocking attacks from all the other styles so as to avoid such advantages. This would allow skill to be the dominant decisive factor in the outcome of saber battles rather than dependence on one particular stance or style.

 

The Red stance was also kind of silly anyway. It looks weird to see the saber swung with that much force behind it. There don't seem to be very many reasons why you would actually swing a saber that hard. In some swings he actually lets go with one hand. The lightsaber isn't very heavy but the Red stance makes it look like it is. The Yellow and Blue stances looked more natural for saber swings, and were very close in their speeds.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by boinga1

Well if all sabers were one-hit kills, then what would be the point of yellow or red stance? Blue is faster and, if it did the same damage, why would you use the slower stances?

 

You could set up a stance trumping system. IE: Red offense beats Red defense or yellow defense, but ties with blue defense; yellow offense beats red defense, and ties yellow defense and blue defense; blue offense is beaten by blue and yellow defense, but ties red defense. When you have a tiebreaker situation, that's where the blocking comes in. Blue would be fastest, but least likely to break through defenses, given the trump system. So basically, no stance would be the "best" stance, it'd be a question of when to use the stances and how.

[Euri]

As I see it the saber stances sould affect more the effectiveness of defence breaking and of blocking parrying and be less related to the damage they inflict.

 

A light saber that goes throught someones body should be fatal (with the exeption of touching him at the end of a swing-a concept correctly implemented by the last versions).

 

I agree witht one stance trumping an other either offecively or defencively. Promod has shown the way on this quite succesfully.

 

Your thoughts?

[StriderPrime00]

I guess I'm thinking more of bushido blades. An insta-kill hit to the head or body will be hard because you have a saber in front of you that is naturally blocked from the body to the head (if held up right). Attackes will more likely hit the arms or legs to deal big damage but not enough to kill you on 1 hit. I would set up the system to kill opponents like this.

 

1) 1 clear hit to the head or torso.

2) 2 clear hits to the arms or legs.

3) 2 glacing hits to the head or torso.

4) 4 glacing hits to the arms or legs.

 

 

It kind of slow at work today, so I was thinking about setting combat system to this:

 

 

 

 

When equiped with a saber

 

Mouse 1: veritical swing

Mouse 2: jump

Mouse 3: horizontal Swing

 

Force Saber throw will be a regular force move.

 

Veritical swing have a high chance of hitting an opponent directly above or below you. Used best when you jump and swing down. Or hitting someone you think is jumping over or couching under your horizontal swing.

 

Horizontal swings are great for on the ground wider area attacks. Best used when confronting 2 or more enemies or if you side step a vertical saber attack and want to counter attack.

 

 

 

 

Moves will be broken up into light, med, and heavy stances.

 

In terms of sabers stances from light, med, and heavy. I think they should implement a push, knock effect in the swing.

 

light stance:

 

In general light moves will be faster, but will not knock a blocking jedi saber to the side. It is most effective to catch a jedi as he is beginning his heavy attack saber swing, or at the end of a blocked 4 hit combo. A max of 4 hit combo can be created in this stance. At the end of all combo string, a slight pause will be introduce to punish button mashing newbies. Only use the combo if there is an opening, otherwise don't complete the combo or you will find yourself open to an attack; stick to 1-2 light slashes. Great against heavy stance attack and close range combat. This move has a small attack area so it might not be the best against 2 or more opponents.

 

Medium stance:

 

Medium moves have a max of 2 - 3 string combos. It is a mixture of light and medium attack moves. The first 1 or 2 hits of the combo will be light attack, with the final hit of the combo being a medium attack. The medium attack is great at knocking an opponents saber to the side. After which you have to follow up with a lunge attack to make a hit. A mixture of short and medium range. Wider area attack then light stance attack

 

Heavy stance

 

The moves here at either 1 or 2 hit combos. They are great in its range, but have a high start and end time. These stances if connected will knock an opponent off its feet. This gives the attacker a huge window of opportunity to make a follow up attack before they recover. However, if you miss, you open up a big window of opportunity for the defender to counter attack you. Great against opponent that keeps blocking and is afraid to initate a move.

 

Combining these things, I think you can make a pretty deep combat system. For example, I could be using light or medium attack to produce 2 quick swings, then while the opponent is expecting a 3rd swing, I switch to a heavy stance and throw out a big "knock your opponent to the floor" move. To counter, and if the guy is quick enough, he can jump over heavy horizontal swings, or straf left or right to avoid vertical swings. Also keep in mind that even if you knock them down, you still have to aim your swing to hit the appropriate body part. If you can hit the head or the torso, you will instantly kill him while he is recovering.

 

Heavy stance move have a long beginning and ending animation but that doesn't mean the attack is slow. The execution is slow on them, but that doesn't mean it can't be fast and flashy. For example, a jedi might have a jump flying heavy saber swing, that requires a jump skip hop before a powerful swing comes out. This makes the Heavy attack easy to spot and makes it fair vs the light and medium attacks.

 

 

 

Sample Move List

 

The move list should be different if the character is in motion(running left, running right, etc) vs. the character is still at starting position. Combos should be limited while you are running.

 

It will be difficult to implement diagonal presses for quick moves, only up, down, left, right motion should be added. I'll only cover the light stance moves to give people an idea. Keep in mind that you have to aim with your mouse cursor to hit the right area of the body.

 

light stance from standing still position:

 

Parry - Mouse 1+Mouse 2 at point of impact.

quick sidestep left - left, left (similar to original unreal)

quick sidestep right - right, right

quick vertical swing - Mouse1

quick horizontal swing - mouse2

2 hit quick combo - Mouse1, Mouse2

3 hit quick combo - mouse1, mouse1, mouse2

4 hit quick combo - mouse1, mouse1, mouse2, mouse1+mouse2

2 step veritical swing - up, up, mouse1

1 big quick step lunge - back, up, mouse1

left quick hop horizontal slash - right, left, mouse2

right quick hop horizontal slash - left, right, mouse2

 

 

light stance while character is running

 

hop to the left dive - while holding down left to run, hit left, left

hop to the right dive - while holding down right to run, hit right, right

forward dive - while holding down up to run, hit up, up

dive left and slash horizontally while in mid air - while holding down left to run, hit left, left + mouse2

dive forward and slash horizontally while in mid air - while holding down up to run, hit up, up + mouse2

 

 

when Saber is knock to the side

 

Recover from knocked saber - rapidly push mouse 1 and 2

 

 

If opponent is knock off his feet.

 

Recover from being knock down to standing position - push mouse button 1 and 2 rapidly.

Recover and roll left - push mouse button 1 and 2 rapidly, while holding down the left key.

Recover and roll back - push mouse button 1 and 2 rapidly, while pushing the back key.

Instant Recovery - push mouse button 1 and 2 at the same time the attacker saber hits you.

 

I'm kind of going a little overboard, but I hope you guys get the picture. Keep in mind that the idea is to first spot or create an opening, by either attacking him at the beginning or end of a swing, or by knocking him down first. Then you have to follow up with an aim attack to the right body part. The head is small, so I don't expect instant kills often. The arms and legs are safer bets.

 

If the hit detection is improved, it would be hard to prevent 360 degree crazy saber slashes from dominating the game (hit the horizontal slash while making the character turn 360 degrees in hopes it hits everyone around you). So instead, I think that you should make saber slashes commit in the direction they aim for. In a 4 hit combo, the hits will have 4 committed direction depending where the player is aimed when the next hit is initiated. However, this will also mean keeping the camera in 3rd person view, so the camera can still be free floating as the characters commit their saber attack.

 

 

edit: To instantly stop running and start a move from still state position you can hit mouse1 + mouse 2 to instantly stop and then you can do all the combos and moves form the still state position.

[{DHU}Screed]

Heres just a suggestion; If you guys really want it "like the movies" they shouldnt make different "stances" but make different "styles" like I, II, III, IV, V etc.. just like the EU uses. Each has its own advantage/disadvantage and leaves alot of possibilities open and A huge variety of play styles to encounter. I think that was what the downfall of JO was. There wasnt enough play styles, you either adapted to play like the "pros" or you died by their hand.

 

More variety = Better challenge, newer things to encounter and always have you guessing about your opponant. JO was very easy to anticipate your opponants next move.

 

Heres some examples of saber styles

 

style II- Count Dooku was the best example, he used saber style #II which was directed at saber vs saber fighting.

 

Style III- Obi Wan and Yoda were great examples, directed more at extremely strong defense, using speed and agility to their advantage

 

style IV- Qui Gon and Anakin/Vader, a combonation between 2 and 3 but not mastering them both fully. Anakin/Vader arguably used style II.

 

Style VI- Mace Windu,The hardest and most rewarding of all the saber styles. A combonation of all the other styles put together. Takes an immense amount of time and patience to master since it is actually a mastery of all the saber styles.

 

styles I and V i forget what they were mainly for and good examples of chars for each.

 

Like I said this is a suggestion to make this game a more of a variety and to cut repetition to a minimum.

 

Edit: Style V was used by Darth maul and directed at fighting multiple enemies at once

 

Style I was an ancient style used in the Sith wars and considered outdated compared to the newer styles

 

And Luke used style IV if your all wondering.

[The Seeker]

heck yeah, if not that exactly, then something like it would definately bring something new and great the the game.

[BloodRiot]

To me.. the ideal would be for each saber to have let's say 3 stances.

 

3 stances for single saber + 3 stances for dual sabers + 3 stances for double bladed saber.

 

Basically each of the 3 stances would have the same concept for all 3 saber types except they would require diferent animations and therefore i say 3 stances each. They should just be appropriate for diferent situations. Like stace 1 veing appropriate for gun wielding foes, stance 3 for saber vs saber combat and stance 2 for dealing with multiple types of enemies with diferent weapons like saber vs saber vs guns.

 

Stance 1 should be much like Mace Windu... simple and effective for dispatching gun wielding foes.

 

Stance 3 should be more colorful and with a greater miriad of tricks and moves for good saber vs saber play.

 

Stance 2 should be pretty much like stance 1 but more for defensive play so you can deal with several opponents at once and suffer less damage since your focussing on multiple defense. Something like an all around style.

 

Cheers.

[boinga1]

if anyone is interested about the saber styles, then

Form II

The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest duelling masters the galaxy has ever seen. Today Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.

Known Practitioners:

 

Count Dooku, Exar Kun.

 

Form III

The third great lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. Form III arose from "laser blast" deflection training. Over the centuries it has transcended this origin to become a highly refined expression of non aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other Forms. True Form III masters are considered invincible. Even in his elder years, Kenobi remains a formidable Form III practitioner.

Known Practitioners:

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

Form IV

Form IV is the most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump, and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force. Masters of Form IV incorporate all of the ways in which the Force helps them go beyond what is physically possible. Their lightsaber combat is astonishing to watch, filled with elaborate moves in the center of which a Jedi may be all but a blur. Yoda, with his deep emphasis on the Force in all things, is a Form IV master. Ordinarily Yoda walks with a slight limp, his ancient body wracked with arthritis and the normal infirmities of old age. In combat however, the diminutive Jedi Master presents extraordinary strength and reflexes.

Known Practitioners:

 

Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn.

Form V

During an era when Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain the peace in the galaxy, Form V arose alongside Form IV to address a need for greater power among the Jedi. Jedi Masters who felt that Form III could be too passive developed Form V. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but neither could he necessarily overcome his enemy. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. This Form exploits the ability of the lightsaber to block a blaster bolt and turns this defensive move into an offensive attack by deflecting the bolt deliberately towards an opponent. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others.

Known Practitioners:

 

Anakin Skywalker, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker.

 

 

Form VI

In the time of Palpatine's Chancellorship, Form VI is the current standard in Jedi lightsaber training. This Form balances the emphases of other Forms with overall moderation, in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power. It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation. In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, and V. Young Jedi spend their first few years studying Form I and then a year or two with each additional Form before completing their training. By comparison, a Form VI master will spend at least ten years studying only that Form after completing the basic Form I training. Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems. However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficiently demanding.

Known Practitioners:

 

Most Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis.

 

 

Form VII

Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art. This spiritually dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability.

Known Practitioners:

 

Mace Windu.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

nice stance ideas, certainly has the potential to be much more enjoyable than: "yay fast, medium and slow moves that are otherwise identical"

 

i've had another thought which I don't believe has been mentioned...

 

GET RID OF FORCEFIELDS.

[Solo4114]

If by forcefields you mean personal shields, I mentioned this.

 

It'd be cool to have the various stances mentioned above and have them operate in drastically different manners, but I think that's better left to a mod. We'll need to be able to dig around in the animation system, however.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

no, i mean force-fields, as in those big pretty walls that do nothing but cause lag?

[boinga1]

They can be useful. Like sya you're runnig through corridors on ctf_yavin with the flag and someone is chasing you. You put down a forcefield to slow them down(forces them to bypass it or cuty it down).

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

They lag the server, they take pings of 30 up to 200.

 

Sure they have uses, but they can really screw up games.

[ryudom]

i't should be possible to fix them so they don't lag everything up

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

the problem is, it has to run a team-check on EVERY player, turn on and off when appropriate, send a message to the player to tell them they can't pass. there's a lot they end up doing

[twl.Sphinx]

They will definitely have to do something to rage if they were to remove those. Force-fields are one of the only defenses a capper has against rage whores, and they aren't even very effective.

-Sphinx

[Jeff 42]

They need to do something to Rage regardless. When there's a bunch of rage-whoring going on it just makes the game less fun.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

true, but we've already established rage needs a MAJOR rework

[StriderPrime00]

man, I assume a lot of the gameplay mechanics without considering lag. A 1 second window of oppurtunity will not work if the game is lagging 1 second behind. Maybe they can have strict rules on Lan, then loose rules on Cable or 56k.

[Solo4114]

Oh THOSE forcefields. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing them go, or at least having their netcode tweaked so they didn't lag everyone to hell. If that's not possible, just ditch them, and add some new gimmicky toy in the forcefield's place. Or what about simply having the fields be non-IFF? They just block everyone and everything. Essentially, you'd just be dropping a temporary wall, which would presumably not cause too much lag.

[CanadianSurfer]

Originally posted by StriderPrime00

man, I assume a lot of the gameplay mechanics without considering lag. A 1 second window of oppurtunity will not work if the game is lagging 1 second behind. Maybe they can have strict rules on Lan, then loose rules on Cable or 56k.

 

You don't find a LAN game on servers with actual GOOD people, not those noobs that host servers out of their house and play with 0 ping.

[Stormtrooper X]

I agree with the idea of a concussion rifle being in JK3 as a weapon, as it was my favourite weapon from DF2 JK:) .

 

But I disagree on the idea of less saber combat, and also you don't have to use the saber as a melee weapon but use saber throw for ranged! See!

 

Saber throw I hardly ever used though!

 

And about 5% of JK2 lovers prefer guns!

 

:bdroid1: :bdroid1:

[Nemios]

I don't know if this has been already said but I think it is VERY important that 1st person POV users are able to do the SAME moves of 3rd person POV users. Currently in Single Player you can't roll, wall walk and do special moves if you are in 1st POV. Instead in MP using cg_fpls 1 you can do it, and I'm glad of that cvar.

 

Finally I really hope that saberfighting in MP will rock as in SP.

[oasisfan]

I'd like to suggest an option that enables you to 'autoscreenshot'.

 

Also an option that can measure the speed of strafejumping like Q3:threewave has.

 

The demosystem maybe would be wonderful to have integrated in the multiplayer instead of having to write a script for it plus the option that automatically names the demo.

 

The amount of percentages you have hit in a round would be nice as well as well having it per gun so not just overall.

 

 

These are just suggestions, nothing more.

 

Oasisfan