New Force Powers?

[Silent_Thunder]

I'm all for more and improved forces powers but I don't like what I've seen so far (in JO) and it sounds like it will only get worse.

 

I'm talking about the force powers like drain or dark rage... I always thought that force powers should be kept more discrete like in the movies, I guess that's one reason I always play "NF".

 

The force powers should be more invisible I think, and less flashy... I mean, whats up with the big white cloud that comes around your hand when you force push stuff? I personally like the (movie like) invisible push/pull/choke stuff better... But that's just me. Wouldn't it ruin the coolness factor alittle bit if Vader made red clouds come around his hands and his victoms; necks when he choked them? Or if the Emperor made a thousand little lightning bolts come out of his hands like what we see in JO (along with the big blue glow on the palm).

 

Anyways, for actual additions and modifications:

 

I think single player Force Speed should be made the way it was in JKI again... It was FAR FAR too powerful and became the ultimate weapon in ALL circumstances... Dessan too hard? Just use forces speed and chop at him with your heavy swing... he'll be dead before he can ignite his saber. If implementing old JKI style speed isn't an option than I suggest severly weaking speeds effect, and causing the swinging rate of your saber to be as slow as normal. Or else let DJs counter it in some manner. Otherwise Speed will just be a really cheap unbalancig force power again... one that almost ruined JKII for me (boo hoo ).

 

Also, I think absorb and protect should be merged as one power, and should be created as the opposite of lightning and other offensive powers. Instead of creating temporary shield that stays on no matter what you're doing it should be used more like the way Yoda used it in EPII. For example: A Dark Jedi fires lighting at a light jedi... The Light Jedi sees the attack coming and presses and olds the "Absorb/protect" key, bringing his hand up in Yoda like posistion. While the hand is up the lightning attack is harmlessly converted into energy for the lightsider, but if he were to take his finger off the button he'd start taking damage again. Also, force power would be drained quickly from the lightsider if he's just holding up a defense without recieving any offensive power to give him energy. That would make absorb much much cooler I think, more movie like and require more skill to use. The absorb/protect from JK and JO remind me too much of "Buffs" from RPGs.

 

As far as new or returning powers are concered I think that destruction could fit in there... as long as it isn't it's old "basket ball of death" self that it used to be... But I think it should be modified to make it more like a stun move... One that freezes your opponent for a few seconds if he's low on health. It would be the kind of power that would take up all or most of your force pool... and you'd only use it if you knew you'd hit your opponent off gaurd at the right moment.

 

Anyways, those are my opinions... overall I think force powers should be kept as lowkey as possible, thus making them more movie like... That also makes them so much more special when used correctly, as little things here and there that catch your opponent off guard or give you a slight advantage, instead of the flashy throwing fire balls and red lightning all over force powers. Saber combat should always be the main form of combat... It should be hard to actually kill another jedi with a force power I think.

[Nemios]

Originally posted by Silent_Thunder

Also, I think absorb and protect should be merged as one power, and should be created as the opposite of lightning and other offensive powers. Instead of creating temporary shield that stays on no matter what you're doing it should be used more like the way Yoda used it in EPII. For example: A Dark Jedi fires lighting at a light jedi... The Light Jedi sees the attack coming and presses and olds the "Absorb/protect" key, bringing his hand up in Yoda like posistion. While the hand is up the lightning attack is harmlessly converted into energy for the lightsider, but if he were to take his finger off the button he'd start taking damage again. Also, force power would be drained quickly from the lightsider if he's just holding up a defense without recieving any offensive power to give him energy. That would make absorb much much cooler I think, more movie like and require more skill to use. The absorb/protect from JK and JO remind me too much of "Buffs" from RPGs.

 

I TOTALLY agree! That would be much more cool!

[Rockstar]

THANK YOU!!

 

OTHERS AGREE WITH ME. the light side should be made MUCH more simple to go as (altho i had not problem in JK2) i think that protect should merge the abilities of both protect AND absorb aswell. it wouldn't be unfair either. all it takes of the evil sith is mana? big loss.

i just go SOOOO tired of just aimlessly switching between absorb and protect

 

i think that the light jedi should have an ability that once they absorb enough dark energy that they should be able to execute a short ranged attack that attacks the enemy. i think that would be veeery cool, and would give some offense to the light side. but its not evil offense... its DEFENSIVE offense just like it should be..... lucas arts should seriously consider that

[Luc Solar]

Please chill, no need to SHOUT.

 

Combine protect and absorb? Why on earth would you want to do that? You protect yourself against lightning that won't affect you at all because you're absorbing??

 

Offensive light side powers? How about ditching the whole Sith/Jedi/Light side/Dark side thingy? And who cares about the SW universe anyhow... let's just ZAP-KABOOM each other and make everything die.

 

A toggleable absorb? That might work, although I don't see what the problem is now. It would surely make the lives of darkies tougher.

 

Also, why would we make lightside much more powerful than dark side? So that the rest of us could play darkies and die in order for you to enjoy playing a kick-ass light sider?

 

If there is not balance, then there are no options. How many light siders do you see dueling these days? None. I doubt perfect balance can ever be achieved, but one side/power/gun/stance/move should not totally dominate the entire scene.

[toms]

i always quite liked the idea of force rage, seemed to fit in quite well to the ethos of the movies... but i do think there should be a similar light side meditation power...

 

look at that bit in ep1 where maul and qui-gon are on other sides of the shield. Qui-gon kneels down and tries to be at peace to attach himself more strongly to the light side, maul paces like a tiger, working up his anger and his attachment to the dark side.

 

Force speed did make single player duels ridiculously easy...

 

combine protect and absorb????? huh????

[Nemios]

Originally posted by Rockstar

THANK YOU!!

 

OTHERS AGREE WITH ME.

 

Sorry but... well... as I quoted I agreed with Silent_Thunder

[Rockstar]

ok sorry for yelling

 

for those that can't understand the combining of protect and absorb.

 

they should create a single light power that:

- Reduces physical damage by ___%

- Makes the caster immune to all dark energy and converts it into force energy which he can use

 

combining the 2 shields is the concept that i was talking about.

it is direly needed because all darkies do is use grip/lightning, lighty uses absorb, darky uses rage, ..... too comon a problem

 

i don't think that the light side should own the dark side. im just saying they should be equal, but IF anything the light should be stronger...... how else did they win in the movies? lol

 

honestly don't tell me that u think there are more light jedi than dark in the servers?

[Spider AL]

Light side is patently more powerful in 1.04. It provides immunity to pull, so you can keep your weapons. Push, so you can stand on catwalks. Perhaps you only play sabre-only games, but even then a lightsider should be able to push their raging foe away until their power and life runs out.

 

The Light Side does NOT need beefing up. 1.03 nerfed the Dark Side.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Light side is patently more powerful in 1.04. It provides immunity to pull, so you can keep your weapons. Push, so you can stand on catwalks. Perhaps you only play sabre-only games, but even then a lightsider should be able to push their raging foe away until their power and life runs out.

 

The Light Side does NOT need beefing up. 1.03 nerfed the Dark Side.

Indeed. Absorb pretty much protects me from everything a Dark Sider can do to me (and being a Light Sider, I love it!). The Light Side does not need any "improvements".

 

And I see Rockstar is still desperate for offensive light side powers. Play using the Dark Side, my friend, if that is your prefered style of play.

[shock ~ unnamed]

<---- confused.

 

Right after jk2 came out *all people wanted to know was "how do I get teh darf maul saber".

 

Go to any admin mod type server and people constantly say "gimme teh darf maul saberz"

 

Now no one wants it...

 

People bind things like "May the Force be with you" or "The Force is my ally"

 

but everyone hates Force powers...

 

 

People want "teh game to be more like teh movie"

 

but people want to be able to shoot fire balls like in jk1...

 

 

 

:confused:

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Also, why would we make lightside much more powerful than dark side? So that the rest of us could play darkies and die in order for you to enjoy playing a kick-ass light sider?

 

Light Side:

 

Absorb - great in CTF and gunning.

 

Mind trick - great in CTF

 

Protect - great in TeamFFA

 

Team Heal - great in TeamFFA

 

Self Heal - utterly and totally useless at any level in any game type.

 

1/2 your pool for 25 hp?

 

And that is at the best level (3).

 

There are only two times self heal can be used effectively.

 

1- the server has a 0 regen time.

 

2- in a team match and the entire team constantly spams the hell out of team energize (dark power) so you can actually heal more than roughly 1 kick worth of damage w/o giving up 1/2 your pool.

 

 

A simple fix w/o nerfing drain would be to make it a "4hp at a time" power like drain.

 

A dark can hold down the button until he hits 25 in his pool. At that point it will only do short 4 hp draining blasts until you let it up to regen.

 

Give lights a "minimum usage level" and if they hold down the button give back 3-4 hp as the regen them so it's on par with drain.

[Prime]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

<---- confused.

 

Right after jk2 came out *all people wanted to know was "how do I get teh darf maul saber".

 

Go to any admin mod type server and people constantly say "gimme teh darf maul saberz"

 

Now no one wants it...

 

People bind things like "May the Force be with you" or "The Force is my ally"

 

but everyone hates Force powers...

 

 

People want "teh game to be more like teh movie"

 

but people want to be able to shoot fire balls like in jk1...

 

 

 

:confused:

LOL. It's funny because it's true.

 

When I was playing the other day I was on a FF Duel server. When the next player joined, up came a multi-coloured text message saying, "Don't use force. We are having a No Force Duel because Force is for Lamerz." The fact this guy had taken the time to bind a coloured message saying not to use the force on a FF server made me laugh out loud.

 

But then I thought about how sad it really was that the game has gotten this way.

 

 

 

And I wept.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Prime

LOL. It's funny because it's true.

 

When I was playing the other day I was on a FF Duel server. When the next player joined, up came a multi-coloured text message saying, "Don't use force. We are having a No Force Duel because Force is for Lamerz." The fact this guy had taken the time to bind a coloured message saying not to use the force on a FF server made me laugh out loud.

 

But then I thought about how sad it really was that the game has gotten this way.

 

 

 

And I wept.

 

Now THAT - along with the [too true] comments from Shock ~Unnamed - is why Raven should be very judicious in what comments they choose to listen to from users ...

 

... of course, they should always listen to me

 

Mike

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Prime:

 

The fact this guy had taken the time to bind a coloured message saying not to use the force on a FF server made me laugh out loud.

 

But then I thought about how sad it really was that the game has gotten this way.

 

And I wept.

Well, I can see at least ONE cleric who needs his dose of Prozium.

 

Seriously though, I for one have been accused of elitism against the majority of JO players in the past. But the type of behaviour that Prime just described is the main reason that I have no time for most players. Most players of any game, in fact.

 

There are many commandments one must follow to be a good gaming citizen. The cardinal rule though is "Thou shalt not whine".

[praenuntius]

Grip and Telekinesis should be made separate. Grip causes damage only (no movement). Grip should be a Darkside only power.

 

Telekinesis lets you move stuff about, but to make it simple, the object should stay the same distance from you as when you started moving it. While effected by Telekinesis, you can use Push or Pull to change the distance between you and the object.

Telekinesis should sap only a small amount of power, if the Force bar is 100 at max, it should only take like 5 points per second. Perhaps if you move the object quicker it will increase the Force usage to 15 points per second (and obviously the damage caused if it collides with anything). Clearly, I'm only giving example values.

 

Push and Pull should function like grenade throwing, ie you hold down Push/Pull and a bar fills up showing you how much Force you will use. Eg tapping Push/Pull will gracefully bring an object to you, mustering all of the Force you have left could violently crush an enemy against the wall.

 

Telekinesis, Push and Pull should all be neutral powers.

 

All of these powers should require accurate targetting, no more area effect stuff. Also, this would only work well in the quiter moments in the single player game. To me it seems like it could be used effectively in single player, but multiplayer could get messy, and one would almost never have the opportunity to concentrate on carefully moving something in a hectic deathmatch.

 

Force Absorb should be back, but this time it should allow you to store one energy/Force attack to be used once at your discretion. Imagine this: a storm trooper fires a blaster energy bolt at you, only to have you catch it in a glowing hand and launch it back at him. Imagine also: dark Jedi launches a lightning attack at you only to have it gathered in your out-stretched hand, ready for you to either add the energy to your Force pool or dish the damage right back at them. My idea is that while ethically questionable, a Lightside Jedi could wield a Darkside Power used on him/her/it. A side effect of this could be a lightning bolt being bounced between players like a (graphically pleasing) game of pong. I tried to get this going with Desann and a rocket launcher once, but being computer controlled, he always managed to deflect it back, whereas me being human I would miss-time a Push and get blown up!

Absorb summary: suck the power out of one energy attack for use at your discretion - either recycle the energy for yourself, or save that lightning for a surprise retaliation. Lightside only.

[HertogJan]

No plz, no push/pull like grenade throwing!! I have bound push and pull to my mouse wheel (up = push, down = pull) and it works great, so don't change it

 

And I agree about the area effect, I'd like to see you actually have to AIM to use those powers

[Spider AL]

Personally I'd like a JK game one day, in which all telekenesis feeds off the same power. Throwing things feeds of the same pool as gripping someones throat, or pushing someone off a ledge, etcetera. After all, it's all the same power. The power of the Force.

[.:Silver:.]

I don't care what powers they add or leave in, but just make everything have a counter. In 1.04 right now, there is no counter to a saber throw pull, aside from running or attempting to dodge which only works if your opponent is a noob. Absorb should keep the pull from starting your defense animation, which would allow you to block the saber throw with your saber.

 

Saber throw pull is the backstab for 1.04. If you guys disagree with that one, then maybe there should be an ability to push the saber back at the thrower.

[Spider AL]

I don't care what powers they add or leave in, but just make everything have a counter. In 1.04 right now, there is no counter to a saber throw pull, aside from running or attempting to dodge which only works if your opponent is a noob. Absorb should keep the pull from starting your defense animation, which would allow you to block the saber throw with your saber.

I doubt anyone of sense would disagree with you on this specific issue my friend, but it's important to remember that there will ALWAYS be gameplay issues that are on the borderline between bugs... and curiosities. Personally I think Raven should leave the gameplay well alone after release, and only fix those things that are obviously bugs. This may leave such things as sabrethrow/pull exploits and strafe jumping in... but that's a price I as a competitive player am willing to pay.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Well, I can see at least ONE cleric who needs his dose of Prozium.

Gimmie gimmie gimmie!

 

Originally posted by .:Silver:.

I don't care what powers they add or leave in, but just make everything have a counter. In 1.04 right now, there is no counter to a saber throw pull, aside from running or attempting to dodge which only works if your opponent is a noob. Absorb should keep the pull from starting your defense animation, which would allow you to block the saber throw with your saber.

Indeed it is a problem, but it doesn't have a counter because it wasn't an intentional design decision in the first place. Someone just happend to find out that it could be done, and exploited it. As Al says, these will always exist, unfortunately.