leXX Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 The humans are definately the bad guys in this scenario. We always are. We never want to make peace. I think the machines created the matrix out of necessity. Our bodies cannot survive without the brain being kept active. "The body cannot live without the mind". Better to have an energy source that survives for seventy years + and is easy to reproduce, plus the fact that the dead can be fed back to the living intravenously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Just thought of something: Regarding reproducing, how exactly would the machines inseminate a woman in the physical world? Grab some sperm from some guy and insert it? How would this impact the woman in the matrix? When the baby is born, is it immediately born into the matrix? Oh yeah, watch the helicopter scene. Says a lot about faith in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 The machines could easily get energy from humans without the matrix, and they'd get even more energy by using other animals as power sources (such as big, warm cows). Well how are you going to get other animals to get BTU's from when they are all dead. We had already scorched the sky when they were thinking of new ways to power themselves. How were the animals going to survive? The sun was blocked so that would create a chain reaction were all the plant life would die eventually from the lack of sunlight and photosynthesis. Human's were also the easiest to use if you think about it. With animals you would have to completely shave them (you know how much trouble that would be) to actually get a good number of BTU's. Plus if you think about it, how many humans are there? Our population is the biggest I think of any other species that would be able to create enough BTU's for the machines to actually survive so we were easily the prime choice for the machines to use for a energy source. In real life solar energy is preserved. Otherwise it would be useless. If the machines have a big enough "panel" to gather from the sun effectively then obviously that energy can be preserved for a LONG time. It makes perfect sense although I doubt they could gather enough energy from the sun to power all their stuff in the first place I think that is the most logical answer here. They must of had batteries that were connected to the solor panels so they knew that they needed a backup source when ever it was cloudy or at night. The batterie's that they had must of lasted more than just a week. They would of actually have the batteries with a life span of 2-3 months since there was such a abundance of sun and all they needed was a lot of batteries. They didn't destroy the sun....they blackened the skies, blocked the suns rays from reachin gearth.....this would of course make the surfaces inhabitable, which is why Zion is down, near the Earth's core where it's still warm.... They must of detonated a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere or pretty close to so that the sky would of been screwed up and so that the sun would not shine through. Another reason for the humans burrowing into the earth was also obvisouly from the lack of heat and sun light, but couldn't it of also been because of the fallout on the surface? It wouldn't of been safe for them to live above ground so that would of been another reason to go under. I mean our technology was very advanced if we had created AI and also of had city's that spanned for miles. That would also be another reason for us to be the prime canidate's for power for them. Our numbers would of been in the billons or even trillians if the city's spanned for miles. My question is why use humans. Humans are so inefficent for this. If they're machine, why can't they just do Fission. It'd be so much easier and more efficent. Well they are using fission. When Morpheus is talking to Neo about the endless fields of humans he says. Combined with a forum of fussion, the machines had all the energy they would ever need. So they are using a form of fussion along with the BTU's that our body's are creating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Just thought of something: Regarding reproducing, how exactly would the machines inseminate a woman in the physical world? Grab some sperm from some guy and insert it? How would this impact the woman in the matrix? When the baby is born, is it immediately born into the matrix? Oh yeah, watch the helicopter scene. Says a lot about faith in general. I didn't see this while I was typing my post but they wouldn't really inseminate a woman. They would just need the males sperm and a egg from the mother and the would just create the embryo outside the body and place it inside those egg shaped containers and let it grow untill it reached the 9 month stage and then they would collect the baby and plug it in into the Matrix. The woman would not really be pregnant inside the Matrix but lead to belive that she would. Then when the baby was born in the Matrix the baby that was collected from the fields would be the son of the mother in the Matrix. It would just require a routing of the two people and making sure that they would interact inside the Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Originally posted by Ratmjedi Well how are you going to get other animals to get BTU's from when they are all dead. We had already scorched the sky when they were thinking of new ways to power themselves. How were the animals going to survive? The sun was blocked so that would create a chain reaction were all the plant life would die eventually from the lack of sunlight and photosynthesis. So would we. We'd have nothing to eat. The lack of sun rays would f*ck up the atmosphere big time, and we'd quickly die. Either way it's too fantastic. With animals you would have to completely shave them (you know how much trouble that would be) to actually get a good number of BTU's. Not really. Shaving is mostly for keeping cold out. It wouldn't matter if the mammal was kept inside o' dem capsules and wired directly to a generator. If we're thinking of cattle, they wouldn't even need that much of a shave as there's precious little fur on them (we're talking about the belly here, where most of the heat would be generated), and you'd think those machines could easily work some system of either gene-manipulating the perfect, hairless creature built to provide maximum heat, or keeping them neatly trimmed. Plus if you think about it, how many humans are there? Our population is the biggest I think of any other species that would be able to create enough BTU's for the machines to actually survive so we were easily the prime choice for the machines to use for a energy source. There are much more cattle to use than humans. Humans require a constant energy input in form of a highly advanced matrix. Cattle would just require a matrix of lush meadows and rolling hills. No agents or sentinels either. In short, humans wouldn't be optimal power source, unless the machines used the active brains for something... else... Intriguing. They must of detonated a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere or pretty close to so that the sky would of been screwed up and so that the sun would not shine through. This was my original line of thought as well (particularily because they said scorched the sky), but the Animatrix deals with this in greater detail - the humans use a lot of gas (CO2?) to block out the sun. What I'm more interested is how they intend to cover the entire earth with this, and how they're going to go about maintaining the cloud layer. Hmm. Of course, this is not what the movies are about. They're about Kung Fu versus Robots, and that's what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratmjedi Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Of course, this is not what the movies are about. They're about Kung Fu versus Robots, and that's what matters. If you go to MFN you will see that it is way more than just Kung Fu vs. Robot's. Then there is Symbolism and trust me there is a lot of it in the movie. But I just wanted to add something since I am a Matrix fan and this was something that I could contribute to a lot I also like to argue with you C'jais whenever I know I might have a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Originally posted by Ratmjedi If you go to MFN you will see that it is way more than just Kung Fu vs. Robot's. Then there is Symbolism and trust me there is a lot of it in the movie. Hehe yeah, I know there's a lot of deep religious references in it as well. But Kung Fu vs Robots is the shiznit But I just wanted to add something since I am a Matrix fan and this was something that I could contribute to a lot I also like to argue with you C'jais whenever I know I might have a chance Might have a chance? LOL It's not about trying to beat the other guy, man. All your points were very good, and the one about Man living underground was better than any of mine by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak Yes, and the way the Animatrix puts it, he Machines tried to make peace with us. The humans rejected it. The Machines wanted 01 to part of the UN. Humanity rejected them. The Machines forced Humanity to go to war by destroying our economy. The Machines started the war, but we struck first (by nuking 01). Clearly the Machines are the villians. They didn't plan on using humanity for a power supply. That seems to be their excuse for what they did to humanity. If you look at how the original human based power system worked, it was clearly designed as torture. And even after humanity surrendered, the Machines betrayed us and killed all our leaders in the suicide attack on the UN at the surrender ceremony. And that robotic Horseman of the Apocalypse doesn't cast them in that good a light either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Originally posted by Nute Gunray The Machines wanted 01 to part of the UN. Humanity rejected them. The Machines forced Humanity to go to war by destroying our economy. That's quite a leap. All machines congregated at 01. They "out-industrialized" us. They were better at building things. They got more money. If we can't compete, then they didn't voluntarily "destroy our economy". The Machines started the war, but we struck first (by nuking 01). How did they start the war again? By being better than us? Clearly the Machines are the villians. They didn't plan on using humanity for a power supply. That seems to be their excuse for what they did to humanity. If you look at how the original human based power system worked, it was clearly designed as torture. Yes, it probably hurt like a b*tch, but I think they were desperate to scavenge as much power as possible before their batteries ran out. So they had to do with huge harvesters, no sedatives and no matrix - crude, but efficient. And even after humanity surrendered, the Machines betrayed us and killed all our leaders in the suicide attack on the UN at the surrender ceremony. Humanity never surrendered. We attacked, and the machines had no choice but to retaliate. They realized that after scorching the sky, there was no future left for man. They had sealed their own fate. If they are to use us a power sources, they can't have little rebels running around, can they? And that robotic Horseman of the Apocalypse doesn't cast them in that good a light either. Hehehe. Well, humanity really had no choice in what they did. If the AI started killing its "masters" I'd have destroyed them all as well. What I can't understand then, is why they allowed the machines not only to live, but to settle and grow in another place? It's plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 i was thinking, if the humans destroyed the Sun to prevent the Machines from using Solar Power, then how come the Machines did not shut down straight away? imo. being very smart machines they probably predicted that the humans would destroy the sun. so they just stacked up on batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Also, the 2R talked about how the humans blocked out the sun, hoping to destroy the machines main power supply. Well, they probably has other supplys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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