Luc Solar Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar still, any solution to stop lighting spammers. i just don't like newbies being able to get frags in FFA's so easily i guess Ummm...what, who and where are these "lightning spammers who keep racking up frags"? I have not seen a single one yet. Sure, I've seen lightning spammers, but never one that gets even half way up the score board. If you're light - simply put on absorb. If youre dark - drain. We all know this. But if someone owns the server with lightning spamming then the rest of the server *really* should practise a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Well yeah, but since FFA is pretty chaotic at times, you can have an advantage when 5 ppl are fighting close to each other. Hooray you can damage 5 ppl pretty hard and then slash them up a lil' Although I have nothing against lightning, I think it should be altered to a single beam, that can lift your victim Oh and about absorb, I think absorb should only work when you are facing the attacker. If you have the lightsaber on (+absorb) it will block the lightning / drain and if you don't you absorb it with your hand. That way it's pretty balanced I think; it doesn't really alter the game but adds a nice effect Maybe you could even include a client side option "Absorb using lightsaber". If unchecked, you will absorb the normal way And lightsaber absorbing could also be random, you won't allways use your saber to absorb the lightning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Kurgan is right. Keep in mind that the movies are scripted sequences designed to have special moments that are really spectacular. If you try to implement something like into a game, it usually screws up balance, and isn't as fun when everyone uses it over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Originally posted by HertogJan Oh and about absorb, I think absorb should only work when you are facing the attacker. If you have the lightsaber on (+absorb) it will block the lightning / drain and if you don't you absorb it with your hand. That way it's pretty balanced I think; it doesn't really alter the game but adds a nice effect Maybe you could even include a client side option "Absorb using lightsaber". If unchecked, you will absorb the normal way And lightsaber absorbing could also be random, you won't allways use your saber to absorb the lightning... i agree about lightning being a single stream, that should change. as for your thoughts of absorb, that would really disadvantage the lightside. i think the only way the that absorb could work fairly the way you described (the jedi raises his hand and only absorbs what is infront of him) would be if the lightside after absorbing lightning could reflect roughly half the ammount of lightning absorbs however, if the saber could block lightning (which i agree would be good as a server option) and it would also allow darkies the chance of some defence against lightning spammers as for solars comment: i actually have no problem with lightning spammers myself (good ol absorb = free force ) its just when i see newbies that should be bottom of the ladder up maybe 4 places when they don't even have a clue which end their saber blade comes outta the hilt.... i just think lol. its no deal really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Kasanagi Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 the whole block lightng with lightsaber thing is gone a bit far, if u wanna implement it in a game, its nothing more than an animation.... Kurgan's got a point, just slap it in so putting on abosrb lets u block it with the saber on low level and with hands on the high level, changing the lighting into a single stream would make it kinda useless....how bout turning lighting into a burst that last for a couple of seconds, each burst doing a set amount of damage and a buffer between each attack? u can be able to lift ur opponent with the few seconds that is given or at least push them away from u, that would stop it from being overuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 umm your proposing lightning be made VERRY powerful if you can eminate a fan that can affect 5 people and throw them about i must agree saber blocking lightning would get a bit far. reflecting absorbed lightning would still be cool tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar i must agree saber blocking lightning would get a bit far. reflecting absorbed lightning would still be cool tho... I share the idea that it could just be an animation. That would satisfy the 'movie-like' crew without compromising gameplay. Reflecting is a problem in the same way level 3 mind trick is a problem - I would rather have had level 3 give me 'jk1 persuasion' effect, or better yet a choice - convert one or confuse a whole room. For top level absorb I would like to choose to reflect or take the energy and turn it into a 200% force power limit for some time period. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I really like Agen terminators idea, but it would be cooler if you could only use it with blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I think the idea of blocking force lightning with a lightsaber is idiotic. If I saw that in that game I'd toss it right in the garbage. I could see however being able to catch it and perhaps reflect it back at them. With the option of incorperating more power to the lightning, depending whether or not you're player is a Jedi or dark Jedi (not sith ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by <JOTD>Jedi Hunter I think the idea of blocking force lightning with a lightsaber is idiotic. I have to agree. I thought it was pretty silly in the movie, and I really don't want it in the game, unless perhaps it was just part of the absorb animation. In AOTC, I just think that Obi-wan absorbing lightning with ease sort of ruined the threat of it. Now when I watch ROTJ, Luke looks pretty silly rolling around on the floor like that Jeez Luke, just use your lightsaber. Even Yoda struggled to deflect lightning by himself, and I was wondering why he didn't just raise his lightsaber. If it is that easy to defend against, then lightning isn't really any threat at all... As for gameplay, I don't think it would be a good thing to be able to deflect lightning with a lightsaber for reasons that have already been mentioned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I didn't think it was lame at all. Obi was channeling the lightening into the saber. I don't think this was effortless. Yoda was absorbing and reflecting it with his body - I see that as a big difference - and as for Luke - he was so clueless I'm sure he didn't even know lightening came out of bad guy's hands. Luke was not much of a Jedi - I think even Lucas pointed out that in the prequels he wanted to show real jedi as opposed to jedi who were half-dead, too old, or didn't know the difference between push and pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbe M'ko Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I have a dumb question: Is Force Lightning actually electricity or is it just force "magic"? It seems to me that Yoda channelling an actual lightning bolt is pretty far out; if it was just "the force" it would make more sense, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Reprehence I didn't think it was lame at all. Obi was channeling the lightening into the saber. I don't think this was effortless. Yoda was absorbing and reflecting it with his body - I see that as a big difference - and as for Luke - he was so clueless I'm sure he didn't even know lightening came out of bad guy's hands. Luke was not much of a Jedi - I think even Lucas pointed out that in the prequels he wanted to show real jedi as opposed to jedi who were half-dead, too old, or didn't know the difference between push and pull. First off - I like the idea of lightning absorb as a defensive saber-on animation and nothing more. You get a bit of homage, without messing up the game. Now back to the movies ... If you watch ObiWan & Dooku, you can see that Obi squares and pauses to absorb, and that Dooku isn't trying all that hard ... just trying to stun Obi like he blasted Anakin. When it came to Yoda he bore down full force (pun intended) with 'killer' lightning. As for Luke, it is also clear that he is one of the strongest Jedi ever (if not well trained) - in a very small amount of training he comes up to being strong enough to stand off witth Vader (stonger than Obi or Anakin relattive to Dooku), with the prescience to see the path to destroy Jabba and his horde, and finally to better Vader, use his power to turn him, and face down the Emperor. He was clearly not expecting what Emp delivered, which was much stronger tyhan what Dooku gave, but was able to sustain it for a long time, and recover quickly. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Solbe - I'd like to know that too - my first guess is it's just "magic" energy. txa: A respectable opinion, however: Yes, Luke probably had the greatest potential - assuming he was more naturally powerful than his father. I believe his short training time (how long is that actually supposed to be anyway) can be attributed to two things - 1) the force was particularly strong with him and 2) Lucas was focused on making a movie rather than creating a world consistent with prequels that were barely more than a twinkle in his eye. Regarding his conflict with Vader, I don't think Vader was trying particularly hard to kill him - they really wanted him to join them - plus Vader is barely alive - and he killed Obi because Obi stopped fighting. Finally Luke didn't use his powers to win - he simply surrendered. He throws his lightsaber down and says he will not fight - and that is what turns his father. In the end it was the content of his character (to borrow a phrase) and not his power that overcame and redeemed evil. Twice he was willing to die rather than join the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by txa1265 If you watch ObiWan & Dooku, you can see that Obi squares and pauses to absorb, and that Dooku isn't trying all that hard ... just trying to stun Obi like he blasted Anakin. When it came to Yoda he bore down full force (pun intended) with 'killer' lightning. I good theory. However, it still comes across to me as Obi-wan having an easy time, and in my eyes that reduced the necessity of what Yoda did. And even though Luke doesn't know about this ability, now when I watch that scene I still think, "Luke, if you only knew..." Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Prime I good theory. However, it still comes across to me as Obi-wan having an easy time, and in my eyes that reduced the necessity of what Yoda did. And even though Luke doesn't know about this ability, now when I watch that scene I still think, "Luke, if you only knew..." Just my opinion... I know ... let's remember that it is really just establishing the heirarchy within the context of EpII - Anakin gets totally whacked by casual lightning, Obi-Wan manages the same casual lightning fairly easily, and Yoda can take everything Dooku can give him and block, reflect, and finally squish it in his hands ... As for Luke ... put in context of watching Yoda, imaging the RotJ scene but with Luke taking the first hit and getting knocked down, then putting up his hands and forming an absorb field, struggling to maintain it while the emperor slowly breaks through it and then he starts getting major-ly whacked ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by txa1265 As for Luke ... put in context of watching Yoda, imaging the RotJ scene but with Luke taking the first hit and getting knocked down, then putting up his hands and forming an absorb field, struggling to maintain it while the emperor slowly breaks through it and then he starts getting major-ly whacked ... In retrospect, Luke was a fairly inexperienced Jedi going up against two (and possibly the greatest) Sith Lords... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 To who thinks blockable ligthning would be always blockable: are blaster shots always ineffective against saber wielders? I don't think so. And would absorb be useless? No, actually they are different features. One only blocks (and could use automatically a few Force points), the other is useful to regain Force points. One is useable only by saber wielders, the other also by gunners. One blocks Force attacks only from in front of you, the other protects you from all directions. And last, one is for all, the other only for the light side. IMHO it would be a good feature, it would reflect movies and could be a server option if someone don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Luke did not just use what was in his character to defeat Vader. When he threw down his saber, he knew through the force that his father was breaking. It was through his knowledge of the force that he turned vader. I mean, could you see him doing that in A new Hope? Also, Luke is the most powerful Jedi. He trained for little over two years (as stated by lucas). Most Jedi train their entire childhood and even into adulthood before they even become a Jedi (also stated by lucas). Considoring these factors, I'd say Luke did a great job against Palpatine and Vader. Someone mentioned Vader not trying, I think I could see that. You bring up a gret point. One I actually overlooked. As for force lightning being blockable by a lightsaber, I still think the best course of action, would be through channeling the force through your body (as in, catching it and deflecting it, or returning the blast). I mean, it just seems odd to think you can block the force with a saber. And yes, that would make the ability almost useless. Unless it took a great amount of force to accomplish it. Then I may be able to see it. Still looks stupid though. Keep in mind, these are only my opinions. And I have as much respect for yours as I do mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Luke did not just use what was in his character to defeat Vader. When he threw down his saber, he knew through the force that his father was breaking. It was through his knowledge of the force that he turned vader. . I guess that is one way of looking at it - I take your point that he was feeling the ambiguity and goodness in Vader - but the turning was not an act of force - it was not as if he zapped Vader with some force power was what I meant. Thanks for pointing out how long he had trained - I've always wondered. From the movies it looked like he was there for about a week or two . It was impressive how far he came in so short a time and faced down Vader and the Emp. with such composure. As far "the most powerful" I'm not sure that can be accurately posited since he never faced Yoda or Obi-wan or Mace etc. or whether this is even an appropriate measure of which jedi is the most powerful. In a sense he was the jedi wunderkind (a foil for his father) - but once wunderkinds grow up, they still have to compete with adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Hah, oh man that made me laugh, the zap part. bam, your good. And a very true statement. As for training with yoda, he was there for only a few days, the remainder of his training I believe was done by himself. Using what Yoda had shown him as a basis. Considoring this, becoming a Jedi with virtually no master, I'd say he's pretty powerful. I believe as a Jedi master, Luke could take any Jedi. But that's going into eu. And I know most of you guys don't dig eu. So I'll say, in rotj, as much as I hate to say it, you're right. He wouldn't have stood a chance against windu. As for ben, I don't know, I think he could've beaten ben. I always keep in mind, that in lucas' eyes, Luke was meant to be the most powerful, why else would he be the one to confront vader. He was choosen for that task because he was Vaders son. As (or more) powerful as Vader. Anyway, you make really good points. my head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen_5 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Seems to me like were getting confused! Yoda was a Jedi master for 900 years befor luke trained with him. Luke left before he could complete his training. Yoda wanted him to stay(maybe to teach him all the sith's little tricks)Luke couldn't stand by while his friends get killed. As far as luke throwing his saber away! Vader was luke's father Luke knew this and maybe he knew that the emperor was going to zap him! But what does a father feel when he sees his child getting hurt? What does a father do? Luke wanted to turn his father from the darkside, and this he did! Mission completed! score one more for the light side!!! Zen_5 Mind what you have learned, Save you it can!(Master Yoda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 It will be interesting to see how Anakin fairs in the next movie - how will his power be established vs. experience. I.e. will he and the Emp. defeat the jedi mainly through combat or cunning. If I remember right, obi and anakin faced off before ep. 4 and obi defeated him, though perhaps barely, hence his machinery. By ep. 4 vader has come fully into his powers as a jedi and so was obviously more formidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by <JOTD>Jedi Hunter As for training with yoda, he was there for only a few days, the remainder of his training I believe was done by himself. Actually, I think it was a lot longer than that. Maybe a month or more. Remember, the Falcon had an unusable hyperdrive, and they had to get from the Hoth system to Bespin before Luke got there. Now, in reality this would take forever without a hyperdrive, but assuming there was some sort of limited backup, it would still take much longer than a few days. Besides, judging from everything we've seen and read, it takes much longer than a few days to get to the level Luke did when he meets Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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