The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus Christianity to me is merely a crutch for the weak, a tool for the manipulative and an excuse for the vile. I cannot love God nor can I hate him, for he is like us without guilt. I can only hope to convince him of the error of his way, and failing that quest for his utter destruction. His followers are ignorant, naïve sheep and by far the most of these are hypocritical, arrogant buffoons like those representing themselves in this thread. Eternity in any state can only bring insanity. I cannot bring myself to discuss this rationally for my loathing is too great. My aren't we arrogant we see ourselves as able to tell God what is right and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Well excuse me for breathing, mr. perfect. How dare you. How dare you come here and tell me christians are ignorant and naive. Do you have any idea how smart I am? I'm sure you don't, do don't you dare mock me for being a christian. This is exactly why I am leaving the senate chambers. You call us christians hypocrits, yet everyone here believes in stating opinions and not bashing someone for having an opinion, yet in almost every instance, christians get bashed by these SAME people simply because they are christian. You sir, tell me who is the hypocrit. If you are going to announce how intelligent you are then please learn how to spell hypocrite, and fiancee. * attacking someone's spelling/typing amounts to nothing more than an ad hominim attack, which is against the rules. not to mention that this type of post is off-topic an pointless to the discussion. --- Skin * Well if he is going to boast about how intelligent he is, he might aswell spell correctly, I mean were Charles Darwin's books full of spelling mistakes? I personally think when he says look how clever I am, that he should be able to spell simple words, so this was undermining his argument which has to do with the thread of how clever he is --- Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Siraious Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 ooops sorry Thracken that did sound like that my apoligees that wasnt my intention give me a few minute to reword (its late here and I've had a busy day I'm just typing and editing without proof reading. It was original to a particular persons response but then I re=ad the person's response and it was not need anyway It will be re check and edit in a few mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I don't know if God exists or not however religion particularly Christianity is despicable, their incompassionate inflexibility is despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrackan Solo Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Siraious ooops sorry Thracken that did sound like that my apoligees that wasnt my intention give me a few minute to reword (its late here and I've had a busy day I'm just typing and editing without proof reading. It was original to a particular persons response but then I re=ad the person's response and it was not need anyway It will be re check and edit in a few mins Its ok I know who and what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Well excuse me for breathing, mr. perfect. How dare you. How dare you come here and tell me christians are ignorant and naive. Do you have any idea how smart I am? I'm sure you don't, do don't you dare mock me for being a christian. This is exactly why I am leaving the senate chambers. You call us christians hypocrits, yet everyone here believes in stating opinions and not bashing someone for having an opinion, yet in almost every instance, christians get bashed by these SAME people simply because they are christian. You sir, tell me who is the hypocrit. How dare I? I dare. I suppose I'm to be intimidated and humbled by your delusional 'righteous wrath', yes? I don't know how smart you are, but I have a pretty good idea of how smart you aren't. I'm not bashing you for your oppinions, I'm bashing you for your naïve weakness. My only hypocrisy is existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Homuncul Not faith. I would believe god is a fish can if I was appropriately explained why and how it is so. And faith is a stagnation, it's limited, it has nothing to do with perceiving anything (whether god or anything). Then we have yet again misunderstood eachother. Thought you had faith in science. Originally posted by Homuncul ....I would very much like to see how Jub's been refuted as I have keeping it as an oath to do so sometime And you have yet to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrackan Solo Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus How dare I? I dare. I suppose I'm to be intimidated and humbled by your delusional 'righteous wrath', yes? I don't know how smart you are, but I have a pretty good idea of how smart you aren't. I'm not bashing you for your oppinions, I'm bashing you for your naﶥ weakness. My only hypocrisy is existing. MAN! Righ now I am too angry to type a decent responce without getting banned:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Murphy My aren't we arrogant we see ourselves as able to tell God what is right and wrong. We were created in his image, yes? We did eat of the Tree of Knowledge, yes? Conclusively, God's capability of reasoning should not exceed ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Thrackan Solo MAN! Righ now I am too angry to type a decent responce without getting banned:mad: Even if you did it would be full of holes and contradictions so be glad you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus We were created in his image, yes? We did eat of the Tree of Knowledge, yes? Conclusively, God's capability of reasoning should not exceed ours. Thats up to debate whether we are in his image, and that tree of knowledge is aload of crap, my theory as God is only escathologically verifiable so we don't know squat about God, and I don't think the divine would give a toss what you think. (I mean did you create the universe?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Thrackan Solo IT NEVER SAYS TO KILL GAYS!!!!! Name one place in the Bible that it says to kill gay people? In fact Jesus hung around the most sinful people in there time(prostitutes,tax collectors, gays). Leviticus 20:13 Romans 1:31-32 Happy now? That's one more than you asked for. Anyways. The problem with christians in debates isn't that they are christians, no one bothers very much about what they believe in. The problem is that they tend to view the Bible as the complete truth and use that in discussions, where their only real argument is "because the bible says so", wich, I'm afraid, is not a good argument in a serious debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Thank you Brenton I was going to point that out but was too lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Thrackan Solo IT NEVER SAYS TO KILL GAYS!!!!! Name one place in the Bible that it says to kill gay people? In fact Jesus hung around the most sinful people in there time(prostitutes,tax collectors, gays). In fact in the Bible Jesus saves a women from being stoned by men because she slepped with another man other than her husband. You cant say that he hates other non0christians. Well, umm...lemme think.. oh yes: Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Dunno about you, but to me that pretty much sounds like "kill all gays". The problem with christians is that they can not take any criticism. They can't discuss the subject but yet have a need to talk about it. Everyone is supposed to listen to their stories about Jesus doing this and Jesus doing that, and everyone *must* believe this even though they can offer no proof whatsoever, even though there are 144.588 different religions out there who all represent "the truth". The second a question is presented highlighting the oddities of christianity, christians feel insulted. Whenever someone criticizes their system of belief, they feel insulted. The arguments don't matter, 'cause a true believer won't listen to them. They're like stubborn children who plug their ears with their fingers and go "lalalalalala I won't listen to you LALALALALALALA!" Then, once the arguments have been presented, a true believer disregards it all and starts from the beginning by saying "Jesus died for our sins and you are going to hell because the bible sais so". And that's what makes debating with religious people (christian or whatever) hell. That's what insults me. Not only do they insult my intelligence by telling stuff I *know* is wrong and can *prove* is wrong, but they're also so thick headed that nothing you say make any difference. There is no way in hell anyone can get through to these people! (BTW - not talking about anyone here, no-one on Lucasforums is the kind of religious type I can't stand) We have thousands of religions and gods in the world. Billions of religious people who all KNOW that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Does anyone else see a problem with this? My advice: if you can't handle the debate, stay out of the debate. I enjoy these debates quite a lot. I do believe that there's a possibility that god exists in one form or another. Does that make it impossible for me to see the absurdities of the bible? Of course not. I won't block stuff out just because it's a matter of "religion" or concerning a book called "the bible". Everyone knows, that if you're right, you're right. The more people test the truth, the more certain it is that they'll see the truth too`and convert. Where's the harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Murphy Thats up to debate whether we are in his image, and that tree of knowledge is aload of crap, my theory as God is only escathologically verifiable so we don't know squat about God, and I don't think the divine would give a toss what you think. (I mean did you create the universe?) Wow, this is filled with things to pick apart. Foremost, I was abusing their case for argument, not arguing my case. That we are created in his image and ate of the Tree of Knowledge is clearly stated; it's actually one of the centerpoints in Christianity, original sin. If we know squat about God, then the Word of the bible is not to be trusted, yes? I had to create the Universe for the divine to giving a toss about my thoughts? So, does or doesn't God judge on us our thoughts as well as our actions? Is speaking with God futile? I'm sure the Christians will have a field day about this, thanks Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus Wow, this is filled with things to pick apart. Foremost, I was abusing their case for argument, not arguing my case. That we are created in his image and ate of the Tree of Knowledge is clearly stated; it's actually one of the centerpoints in Christianity, original sin. If we know squat about God, then the Word of the bible is not to be trusted, yes? I had to create the Universe for the divine to giving a toss about my thoughts? So, does or doesn't God judge on us our thoughts as well as our actions? Is speaking with God futile? I'm sure the Christians will have a field day about this, thanks Murphy Yeah but I don't believe in Christianity as do many others so your tree of knowledge crap is up to debate. I personally believe in the theory of evolution and what Iranaeus stated we were born imperfect. (The irony he's a Christian I am aware of) Yes the Bible isn't to be trusted because we don't know sqat about God, the Bible should be known as the book of contradictions not the book of Revelations. No, but I doubt God would let you influence him because you're well insiginificant in comparrison to God, I have never heard of anything so ludicrous I'll influence God of the error of God's ways. Speaking with God (if you believe you're doing that) isn't futile but you believing you can reason with him and influence him is. I doubt the Christians will have a field day with this because what I havce stated basically means that God can exist without religion, if anything they'll have a wet weekend with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus I'm bashing you for your naïve weakness. Which proves you are bashing. Don't. It's against the rules. I have NEVER told you that you are stupid, I have NEVER announced you will burn in hell, I have NEVER insulted your mother. I have done NOTHING to you. I believe in the Bible. That gives you the right to call me naive and weak? I believe the answer I am looking for is "no." Now, if I see you calling anyone else weak or naive on these boards I'll ban you quicker then you can say "sorry." I do NOT Put up with ANY name calling on these boards for ANY reason. Got it, top cop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 The title of this thread was Why is it OK to bash Christianity? The originator of the thread stated "I'd like to try and keep things rational in this post, if you would please..." Moreover, the Senate Chambers is a place for serious discussion and reasoned debate. Please note some of the following quotes of some randomly selected posts within this thread: "His followers are ignorant, naïve sheep and by far the most of these are hypocritical, arrogant buffoons like those representing themselves in this thread." "I cannot bring myself to discuss this rationally for my loathing is too great." "don't you dare mock me for being a christian." "If you are carrying a cross and step to a foe with it and hit him with it, then you are not longer carrying a cross. YOU CARRY A WEAPON." "In your view homosexuals get bashed they should deal with it. Blacks get bashed they should deal with it. You are a true hypocrite." " religion particularly Christianity is despicable, their incompassionate inflexibility is despicable." "I suppose I'm to be intimidated and humbled by your delusional 'righteous wrath', yes? I don't know how smart you are, but I have a pretty good idea of how smart you aren't." "MAN! Righ now I am too angry to type a decent responce without getting banned" There is little rationale coming through in these words. If even some of these comments are serious.... Regardless, these are evidence of a lack of "reasoned debate." Those of you that know me, know that I have been critical of christianity in the past, and will likely be so in the future. But there's a difference between "critical" and offensive. Several comments made broad generalizations about christianity such as citing the number of people who were killed or died for the faith. This is instantly an invalid argument, since homicide, murder, suicide, war, genocide, etc. has occured independently from christianity and extensively throughout history. It could more easily be argued that this is a human construct and not a christian one. I use that as but one example of both how to present a reasoned argument and how there is an irrational bias being presented in this thread. Now to the good part: Clean it up or don't post here. Disregard that and I'll lock the thread. It bothers me to see a conversation get to the point where people state that they're leaving the forum. It is a sign of others stirring sh*t up just to create a pointless argument. Many of the arguments that came across offensively didn't have to be so. Support your argument with a bit of observation... don't just state "religion[,] particularly Christianity[,] is despicable, [it's] incompassionate inflexibility is despicable." Give us an idea why you think so. Then give the other side of the argument an opportunity to respond appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 What makes you think a mere Super Moderator will stop Jubatus? I mean he thinks he can influence God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 SkinWalker, I think I am in love with you. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Jubatus I'm bashing you for your naïve weakness. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by obi-wan13 Which proves you are bashing. Don't. It's against the rules. I have NEVER told you that you are stupid, I have NEVER announced you will burn in hell, I have NEVER insulted your mother. I have done NOTHING to you. I believe in the Bible. That gives you the right to call me naive and weak? I believe the answer I am looking for is "no." Now, if I see you calling anyone else weak or naive on these boards I'll ban you quicker then you can say "sorry." I do NOT Put up with ANY name calling on these boards for ANY reason. Got it, top cop? anyways. don't bash individuals jubatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Just getting home from work and seeing this thread in a raging inferno is sad, to say the least. I'll second Skin's warning and state that if I see anymore thoughtless, sweeping "carpetbombing" generalizations, I too, will lock the thread. Now, there's a difference between bashing the Christian, and bashing Christianity. There are countless "remixes" of Christianity and some of those organizations have indeed done foul deeds. The question is whether we should proclaim Catholocism guilty for all the murders - or the Popes who commanded them to be done in Catholocism's name. If we say that Catholocism (or any other Christian sect) is a military organization with its priests the commanding officers, the common people regular soldiers, and the Pope being the 5 starred general, who is to blame? Surely all the "privates" are just following orders from higher up and "going by the book" (excuse the pun) - but still, there are times when it comes to disobey direct orders because it's trying to screw up the inner moral compass. When the book's commands are conflicting, one should look at the higher message. 1) The Bible tells us to love each other unconditionally. 2) The Bible tells us to kill gay people. What now? Think for yourself - which of these is more important to you? And no, I'm not gonna believe for a second that someone in here will state that the latter is. The book is full of these contradictions, and each and all must struggle to decode the bigger message. Mix and match to find the right combination that's in harmony with our heart. I'll tell you what I believe. I believe that part of the Bible was written by loving, kind people who wanted to send a message to unite everyone on earth. You could say they were inspired from above, but the fundamental idea is that they were compassionate individuals who wanted to make a change for the better. But that's not the whole Bible. Parts of the Bible were written by f*cktards who wanted to justify their actions by claiming divine inspiration - these were not caring people, but selfish *******s who wrote what they wrote because they wanted to exploit people's goodwill and gullibility. It is important to see the whole picture, to know what was written - it is important to filter out all the harmful parts of the Bible. Take a step back and look at the Bible again. Do you honestly think someone was inspired when he wrote all the sh*t about homosexuals? Do you honestly think that is God's message? Why would a common man write stuff like that? Maybe he had a need to ridicule gays or hold them in contempt. Maybe he wanted to alienate those that were different from him, and in the minority? Whatever the reasons, it just doesn't jive well with what Jesus tells us to do, does it? Make of it what you will, but I know a bigot when I see one. Unnatural? Why? Would God care if his people loved their own sex - as long as they loved each other? It's the same when people get all riled up over whether creationism or evolution is to be believed, or whether it is okay to have sex before marriage. All these people are missing the greater message, the bigger picture of the bible - love your fellow Man like you would be loved yourself. Christians killing abortion doctors are completely and utterly misguided - they have so lost connection to the centrol, most important message of Christianity that they've taken to abusing the Bible. They're in the dark, hitting everyone with a Bible whose flashlight doesn't give off the same colour as their own. While those people have lost touch with the meaning of cooperation, I know we haven't. Now chill, and love each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Murphy Yeah but I don't believe in Christianity as do many others so your tree of knowledge crap is up to debate. I personally believe in the theory of evolution and what Iranaeus stated we were born imperfect. (The irony he's a Christian I am aware of) Yes the Bible isn't to be trusted because we don't know sqat about God, the Bible should be known as the book of contradictions not the book of Revelations. No, but I doubt God would let you influence him because you're well insiginificant in comparrison to God, I have never heard of anything so ludicrous I'll influence God of the error of God's ways. Speaking with God (if you believe you're doing that) isn't futile but you believing you can reason with him and influence him is. I doubt the Christians will have a field day with this because what I havce stated basically means that God can exist without religion, if anything they'll have a wet weekend with it. You speak as if I believe in God and Christianity; I don't. And I do as you believe that reasoning with God (if he existed) is pretty futile hence the second part of my original sentence thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Which proves you are bashing. Don't. It's against the rules. I have NEVER told you that you are stupid, I have NEVER announced you will burn in hell, I have NEVER insulted your mother. I have done NOTHING to you. I believe in the Bible. That gives you the right to call me naive and weak? I believe the answer I am looking for is "no." Your beliefs and statements of oppinion offend me, yet I do not threaten you with banishment. Originally posted by obi-wan13 ...I do NOT Put up with ANY name calling on these boards for ANY reason. Got it, top cop? I hope you can see what I want to point out here. Look closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith anyways. don't bash individuals jubatus. How presumptuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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