Sexual Segregation

[El Sitherino]

one thing I don't like about schools is how children are always separated at young ages from like 5 and up girls are here, guys are over there until you hit high school then, hormones kick in and both sexes get thrown together and have no clue how to act around each other. So you're struggling to understand each other for YEARS all through high school, when it would have been so much better to not separate them in the first place. Guys get all nervous around girls then(and probably vice versa). We have no idea how to act around them because we've rarely interacted with them all our lives, and then we're suddenly expected to start RELATIONSHIPS with them? ... and people wonder WHY teenagers are so depressed half the time...

 

what are your thoughts?

[Hellfire Jedi]

You hit the dot.

[Elegy]

Good idea. I say we immediately merge all public bathrooms, showers, locker rooms, and dorms all into one joint unisex venture!

 

On a more serious note, you might actually be on to something. There are hobbies and recreational things that are associated o nly with each sex. Each member of their respective sex is, at a young age, encouraged to focus on these sex-specific pasttimes. In essence, yeah as children we all formed these little cliques and groups that included only boys, or only girls. We completely ignored the opposite sex.

 

There are a few exceptions to this rule, such as tomboys for the girls, and "pretty boys" for the boys. These examples tend to be a little closer to the cliques of the opposite sex than they are of their own, and they seem to be more comfortable around members of the opposite sex for it. So perhaps this proves a bit of your theory.

[El Sitherino]

this is taken from what reb starblazer said in a chat. but i have always felt the same way, thus I presented it to you all.

[SkinWalker]

Actually, there is a lot of evidence that segregation of genders is extremely conducive to academic advancement. School systems that have segragated genders usually have boys and girls attend totally separate classes or even schools and, upon reaching the last couple of years of school (11th & 12th grades), they can choose to take classes within the other gender's campus.

 

In short, this eliminates the competition and pressures that exist when students are more worried about their appearances to the opposite sex than scholastic achievement. These schools usually have strict dress codes as well, which also help in leveling the field... the students no longer have to out-do each other with the latest fashions and expensive clothing in order to fit in.

 

I recognize that most students of public schools despise these ideas outright, as do many of their parents, but that does not eliminate the fact that these methods are extremely effective.

 

A student's job is to get an education... random socialization only creates socio-economic problems. The public schools of affluent neighborhoods do well... the public schools of ecconomically challenged neighborhoods have unbelievable truancy and crime rates and academic challenges are much lower since the standards cannot be maintained at higher levels.

[Redwing]

You also learn much, much faster when home-schooled, or with a private tutor, than any kind of public schooling. I can safely say I learned more in K-7th of homeschool than I did in 8th-12th of public school. When I first entered public school, people thought I was a godlike genius - no more, definitely not. Also, I always thought school's purpose wasn't just to give an education, but to prepare you for the real world...

 

I was unaware until now that genders were ever separated in school, for obvious reasons.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Redwing

You also learn much, much faster when home-schooled, or with a private tutor, than any kind of public schooling.

 

I agree, but only assuming that your "teacher" (often a parent) is capable. I know of several teenagers that are being "homeschooled" simply because they haven't the patience for public school... or they coping skills required to interact successfully with others. Their parents aren't financially or mentally prepared to adequately provide homeschooling and because of this, they are failing. Miserably.

 

Originally posted by Redwing

Also, I always thought school's purpose wasn't just to give an education, but to prepare you for the real world...

 

This would be ideal, but a look in a school district such as the Dallas Independent School District in Dallas, Texas will show you what is being prepared... kids in Madison HS watch their backs constantly for fear of being jumped; police officers frequently surround the Spruce HS to break up gang violence; teen pregancy is on the rise; drug busts are frequent; weapons are brought to school; the truancy rate is climbing through the roof, so much so, that the county of Dallas has opened two (or was it three) new truancy courts to deal with the problem; etc; etc;

 

That's not the "real world" that I want to live in.

[Homuncul]

SkinWalker:

I recognize that most students of public schools despise these ideas outright, as do many of their parents, but that does not eliminate the fact that these methods are extremely effective.

 

Think is pseudoeffectiveness. Read Men's Health for god sake . Boys want to show off before girls and they are in need of it from the age 14. Schools try to keep so called discipline, but they can't stop people from carring guns to school, or stop boy's need for sex. I guess this has nothing to do with school discipline at all. It's more about primary upbringing or psychological state. So I'm against such actions.

 

I remember my parents always told me that you can study only on your own. So I studied myself at home, doing actually nothing at school rather than practicing my memory (that's when I figured that my mind has got endless capacity for useless information), talking with friends and kiss asses of my teachers. I did my homework of course and graduated with no C marks, but most of what I know and consider educational I took from books at home.

[Redwing]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

I agree, but only assuming that your "teacher" (often a parent) is capable. I know of several teenagers that are being "homeschooled" simply because they haven't the patience for public school... or they coping skills required to interact successfully with others. Their parents aren't financially or mentally prepared to adequately provide homeschooling and because of this, they are failing. Miserably.

 

Wrong. My dad was an...idiot...pardon the term, and because of his OCD and various other disorders he couldn't read more than a sentence at a time and comprehend it. Not to mention that he had to at least attempt to teach the others in our rather large family. And my mom? Worked all the time. I taught myself, using the material she got, which wasn't terribly expensive (although I agree that can be a problem.)

 

So, judging from my personal experience, I can say the perfect learning environment would be perfect isolation from any influences outside the home. Also judging from personal experience, I can say - what kind of an environment is that?

 

 

 

This would be ideal, but a look in a school district such as the Dallas Independent School District in Dallas, Texas will show you what is being prepared... kids in Madison HS watch their backs constantly for fear of being jumped; police officers frequently surround the Spruce HS to break up gang violence; teen pregancy is on the rise; drug busts are frequent; weapons are brought to school; the truancy rate is climbing through the roof, so much so, that the county of Dallas has opened two (or was it three) new truancy courts to deal with the problem; etc; etc;

 

That's not the "real world" that I want to live in.

 

 

That's a pity, and it's also an extreme case. However I don't recall ever suggesting that public schools were doing the job right.

[SkinWalker]

I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing.... I'd be interested in seeing statistics on Homeschooled vs. Didactic Classrooms. I'm sure it is out there... I've a daughter that will be ready for school some day.. so I really am interested in the concept of homeschool, I'm certainly not knocking it, but if parents aren't the key to success, the kid him/herself is definitely the critical factor. You obviously were focused or made yourself focused.

 

But on the purpose of school being to prepare for the real world... I didn't infer that you were stating that public schools were working... I simply stated the observation that I had about the failures I've observed. It's true, also, that there are successes in even the toughest public schools.

 

I suppose there is no one factor or simple answer to the education of youth... but there are definately some methods that are more effective than others.

 

Homuncul: "Think is pseudoeffectiveness. ... Boys want to show off before girls and they are in need of it from the age 14. Schools try to keep so called discipline, but they can't stop people from carring guns to school, or stop boy's need for sex."

 

Yes, but juveniles are adults-in-training and, as business and capitalism has proven time and again, close supervision during training and guidance are both conducive to developing superior employees. So, too, is it conducive to developing superior adults. Controlled and supervised socialization is needed for juveniles... declined supervision that is graduated as trust increases will be more effective than blind hope and ignoring the conflicts that exist among them: competition. Kids compete for attention from each other and the opposite sex. They want status. They will do whatever they can get away with to get it.

 

Separating the genders for education and enforcing structures such as uniformity in dress will go a long way to creating the mileu needed to effectively educate our youth. No one is restricting fraternization among genders outside of school. This will still happen. But in school, education will occur. Not competition and socialization. These are two major contributors to the problem of truancy in my country.

 

BTW, I work in the juvenile justice field, so I see the things that we (as a society) continue to deny about our youth every day. There is a failure occuring. And there is no one answer or simple solution. It's the culmination of many factors... single parent households, ecconomic challenges, social deficiencies, consumer capitalism, educational expectations, the need for school reforms, etc.

[Homuncul]

Redwing:

So, judging from my personal experience, I can say the perfect learning environment would be perfect isolation from any influences outside the home. Also judging from personal experience, I can say - what kind of an environment is that?

 

I agree. And the whole system (at least in my country) is wrong. Children need to learn how to learn and not just learn what they are given in school. That's all they need.

 

I have some special case in my family. When my brother was born when my mother was 31 and my dad was 41. In result he was ill for all of his childhood. No complexes here.... he's a total mutant.... and I hate and love him. He was late to walk, to talk and for him it was much more difficult to comprehend. My mother didn't work for 10 years to sit with him and do everything for him. I didn't care much about that. But as now I look back on it. It was a completely wrong thing. He was really lazy also and when mother was tired with him, she just did the job for him. If he was hard in figuring something and she could no longer wait she just explained him where to put the right word but never why. My dad couldn't participate at that time, he was hard with his new carrier.

 

Then about 2 years ago my grandma visited us and naturally, as all "good" grandmas do wanted to help Alex to study "right". That's when I cought her and my mother on doing the same misttake. My grandma is a former schoolteacher. It didn't get to her that her methods could be wrong. When they were doing the same giberish I came finally and said: "Grandma, you're just doing the wrong thing". She was offended, no matter how hard I tryed to explain why she was wrong. I guess the matter is age. After 40 it's said to be hard to compprehend something extremely new.

 

Either way, after that I took Alex. I gave him a book. He read it. Then I asked him: "What did you understand". He could say nothing at al. Imagine, he could say nothing of the book he read. Then I told him what's so important about viewing thebigger picture of the book. I never told him what he must understand their but how he could understand it on his own. I told him to look for connections between sntences. That every sentence is a thought. Finally I got some result. He realized some things , then I pushed him to some associative work so he could find true sense in one or another sentence. We finished one book, we started another. he could understand much better next one and so forth. In fact he such a small expirience that no associaions could appear, cauze for him it was always digested and he had digested it on his own. He's 15 now and apart from school he's preparing to get a certificate on ASP.Net. He got rid of all complexes, no longer considering himself some kind of freak he was called from childhood.

 

Well, I call him freak from time to time, and he just says such a wonderful disgusting things that it makes me want to wash his mouth.

 

When I told with my dad about it. He just told me: "You see women. They are just them". And he gave me $200 as a eward.

 

This is how our education works. And it's wrong.

 

SkinWalker:

Separating the genders for education and enforcing structures such as uniformity in dress will go a long way to creating the mileu needed to effectively educate our youth. No one is restricting fraternization among genders outside of school. This will still happen. But in school, education will occur. Not competition and socialization. These are two major contributors to the problem of truancy in my country.

 

So no education will appear because of what I discribed. And if it will appear, then it would not be the matter of sex segregation at all.

 

I see it as a great and immidiate school and even kindergarten reform.

[ShadowTemplar]

There can hardly be any doubt that being taught at home by a competent individual is much more productive that going to a regular school. However, it is also much less effective, as you'll need more than twenty times as many teachers... As always, quality must be balanced against invested resources, a realization that many Western societies are pathetically lacking.

 

Now, to get back on topic: Gender segregation seems a bit extreme, but dress codes is definitely a good idea.

 

I agree. And the whole system (at least in my country) is wrong. Children need to learn how to learn and not just learn what they are given in school. That's all they need.

 

Without background knowledge, learning techniques are utterly useless. Without a lot of background knowledge.

[Ray Jones]

in our schools boys/girls aren separated

 

BUT..

 

as i know it .. girls and boy are treated different from babyage on.

 

people always think my baby is a boy because she dont wears PINK, DRESSES and FRILLS all the time. why?? its a girl no barbie.

 

it's sticked to the (most) peoples heads .. and this is given further to their children. automatically.

 

And most people arent able to tell what's up with boys and girls. and what really is the difference. then there are religious/cultural reasons and so on.

 

and there are always thing said like

 

"this is a mans job"

"typically woman"

"someone understand woman/man"

 

 

.. etc.

 

 

makes me sick.

[Homuncul]

Without background knowledge, learning techniques are utterly useless. Without a lot of background knowledge.

 

Base is very important. But let's not fool ourselves. School today (at least where I live) doesn't give neither base nor teaches how to learn.

[Writer]

You also learn much, much faster when home-schooled, or with a private tutor, than any kind of public schooling.

 

I agree, but only assuming that your "teacher" (often a parent) is capable.

 

 

I would also have to disagree with this. My dad, while he has an excellent brain, is not home as much as it would require to teach me. I have studied past my mom's level of study, so she's not able to help me. Even so, I could probably graduate early if I chose to. Why don't I?

 

What's the rush? I want to slow down and make sure I understand everything before I graduate.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

In Norway you can bring a child up to the age of 4 or 5 or something into the opposite gender's locker rooms, showers, bathrooms, etc.

 

Good idea. I say we immediately merge all public bathrooms, showers, locker rooms, and dorms all into one joint unisex venture!

Immediately? It'd have to happen gradually, and neither of us could ever use one -we're far from mature enough.

 

What I hate more is the way boys and girls are raised differently. Boys are thaught to be less open, for example, leading to more depressions among boys. Raise us equally already! It's good for boys to play with dolls, and it's good for girls to play with LEGOs.

 

In my perfect society, there won't be a difference between genders -and no segregation.

[El Sitherino]

well in high school they yell at me for not having good social skills. well it doesn't help that i'm not allowed to talk to anyone at all. and then they also expect me to be able to have a relationship with girls and i've been secluded from them during school. i mean it's insane for them to think this stuff.