Mp Omg

[Comm539]

I don't understand why people are arguing. Its clear that the entire ctf community is in uproar about how features have been ripped out of a so called sequel.

You all seem very happy with whats been done for your respective gamemodes and for that be greatful. All we ask is that our gamemode, s/o ctf is fixed to encoperate the features in jk2. It'd jjust need a patch, perhaps bring back the features and mae them selectable by the server as to whether they'll use them. All the people who don't play ctf, this doesn't concern you and I don't understand why your arguing against the will of the entire ctf community about a gamemode you know little about. All we ask is a patch that won't effect your modes, or can have some of the feauures from jo turned on, if you choose. Whats so wrong with that?

 

The new ctf maps are in one word, HUGE. You all say 'oh this is saber combat' and w/e. But no, this is ctf. Flag carriers don't stand around whilst the attackers make an orderly queue to duel him, with the carriers team stood around watching merrily. The carrier is a guy who doesn't want to be killed AT ALL COSTS. This means if he gotta run like hell and not fight a sole for the entire nmatch, thats what he'll do. In addition, any damage caused whilst he's running around is countered by healers and energizers.

So you see, gk, pk, ptk rage dfa were ways to stop the carrier, or kill before a healer can heal. The point we make is now these are gone, theres no way to stop a flag carrier who's running, and no way to kill them before someone heals. Your 'saber combat' all sounds very honourable, but you have to remeber this is ctf.

I have to add that cvars saber damae isn't a good alternative. Make sabers one/two hit kill and the fc never fights EVER. With no way to stop him running (no pk etc) the games stalemate. Only by pull whoring and thus charging up the fc's force (with absorb) on can he be slowed, but you just gave him enough force to speed off again.

Leave sabers weak and healers heal in time.

 

I hope you understand why we're complaining a littlee clearer.

[traj]

Well, I could respond to this but I think a better idea for you Prime would be to check out the new thread posted this afternoon by Wiener Dog called 'A serious Discussion of MP Problems' (or something like that).

 

He really gives a good overview of the problems we're talking about here. Check it out.

 

The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.

[JaledDur]

"Oh boy..."

 

-Sam Beckett

[Doctor Shaft]

Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

 

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

 

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

 

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

 

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

 

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

 

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".

 

 

Side Two: Everyone else

 

<-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

 

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"

Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

 

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

 

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

 

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

 

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

 

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

 

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

 

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

 

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

[Doctor Shaft]

Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

 

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

 

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

 

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

 

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

 

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

 

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".

 

 

Side Two: Everyone else

 

<-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

 

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"

Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

 

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

 

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

 

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

 

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

 

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

 

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

 

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

 

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

[Comm539]

I think thats the most intelligent post i've read all day

We don't care about the other gametypes, keep things as they are (if they like them), we just want the option for JO features reimplemented (for ctf) for the obvious reasons already mentioned.

[FlashRam]

I'm still laughing my ass off at the guy who said he loved siege because it made him feel like he was really a stormtrooper

[FlashRam]

Let's get to the heart of this matter. Saber Only CTF in JK2 was never a very respected gametype. Even at the end, when Diverse and =X= servers were basically full at all times (hell diverse server is still full basically 24/7) it got no respect from the ladder sponsers. Take that last ladder we did, we had to basically prove we could get teams together before they would even host a saberonly ctf tournament (it should be noted that none of the other competitive communities had enough interest to get any of the other ladders going, that includes NF saber dueling, while the s/o CTF community had a basically full ladder of competitive teams). When Raven thinks CTF, they think guns. Look at the new ladders for JA. There are NO s/o CTF ladders our tournaments. Raven could care less about the small s/o CTF community.

 

Full Force dueling is clearly a joke in JA, and I can't be bothered to point out the obvious reasons, since they have been stated quite well by others. But this, as well, was a small and little recognized part of the community. Raven is just going where the cash is, and that's with the nf saber newbies. Let's face it, they do make up about 80% of the player base.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by traj

The rest of you who have no interest in FF SO/CTF or FF Duels, please stay out of this discussion. It does not concern you.

 

Drop the condescending tone, right now.

 

Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.

 

 

Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.

 

You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.

[FlashRam]

uh...stfu choir boy

[ic0n]

kickfest? laugh. just cause you are too uncoordinated and sluggish to pull off a kick, dont hate on it. face it. you suck.

 

you have obviously only played ffa, as well. you dont understand how kick is needed for ctf.

 

oh btw roll stab ownz joo.

[FlashRam]

i'm bored of nancy boy admins and their nut sucking parade of newbies

[ic0n]

amen.

[mr2turbo]

i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.

 

from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by mr2turbo

i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.

 

from an ff dueler's standpoint, i dont think anyone has hammered the point down that another reason we all liked the combo type moves in JO is because they added another element of skill to the game. if the game is reduced to simple saber acrobatiks then there is no skill involved, anyone can go to gamefaqs.com in a month and master the game in 2 hours. there was so much to think about in FF dueling, such as position, force management, opponent analyzation, etc....which is why even someone who knew how to ptk, pk, and gk flawlessly would still lose 10-0 to a true expert. this is what seperates the master from the above-average player, this is the esence of competition, and when your a competitive person you want to do what it takes to win. when the game takes utterly no skill to play like JA SO/FF, then the competition dies and you become frustrated which in time = dead community.

 

damn good post. 100% agreement.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by C'jais

Drop the condescending tone, right now.

 

Everyone can reply to this thread, no matter what you, or your comrades say.

 

 

Yes, I can see the s/o CTF gametype has been hurt, but that's no excuse to pour vitriol on bystanders and their comments.

 

You don't like JA, fine. Your loss, not ours.

 

why is it that when one of us posts in a rpg thread that everyone comes down on us, not them when they start flaming before us, but when we have a thread about what WE play, WE get the short end of the stick from the admins, not to mention the players who play other gametypes?

 

why is it that when we try to play, our sexuality, heritage, intelligence, and parentage , not to mention many other things, so you may be a bit more understanding as to why our e-tones are sharp as a razor. we've been harassed for a year and a half for simply playing the game, and if it had been real life, the people would have been put in jail for doing such things.

 

and please, keep the condesencing tones to a minimum, sir.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

Sigh... and so it begins. My misgivings about buying the game have begun just as I have forseen. Arguing, arguing, arguing.

 

To be honest, I enjoy arguing a lot. I like competitive gamers. I'm not one myself, but when a real gamer, a guy on a real clan, who actually CAN play the exceptionally well, come on the forums and make a comment, I tend to hold my own ego and listen.

 

So far, the discussion has been two sides, and unfortunately one side is informed about the matter and the other half is full of people with lots of ego, tons of anger, and little sense.

 

Let's all calm down and break down the points of both sides.

 

Side One: Sabers-Only CTF clans

 

They want their game improved. The sabers are weak (just as I predicted they would be), the saber blocking is once again both random and highly effective, and once again most of the force powers have little use against force speed and absorb.

 

The S/O clans are saying that the nature of their game, which DOES NOT INCLUDE GUNS (so many posts here that said "just shoot em"....) does not mesh well with JA! At all! If a guy wants to run away with the flag, it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP HIM! The end!! that's it!! Don't provide these guys tips on how to win!!! You don't know!!!! They do!!! Sigh... reading the replies to these guys posts has been exasperating.... I don't even play the game type, yet I can immediately comprehend and predict what they're saying. They're analysis is both intelligent and well said. They are not simply saying "OMG, h4x!".

 

 

Side Two: Everyone else

 

<-------- that's you!!! You're battle droids. Here's an example of unintelligent comments made on this forum.

 

"You guys suck, you only care about scores"

Unfortunately, dear sir, S/O CTF has little to do with personal scoring because you need to CAP FIRST!!!! Who cares if I kill Tim and Bob with kick, it doesn't matter unless I cap the flag, now does it? It's a teamplay game, and has a lot more variables and complications than the typical Duel and FFA or TFFA, which is based SOLELY on personal kill scores. Ironically, that's the game type that YOU play. And don't try to tell me that you don't like winning.... These guys happen to have their fun by capping flags and winning. However, they currently can't even KILL each other. Sigh....

 

"JA is a different game, it's based on saber combat... aka kicks and quick kill moves are out"

 

Once again, these guys just got done explaining to you how dueling barely matters in S/O CTF. If you have to cap the flag, WHY IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD YOU DUEL?!?!? Yes, I'm sure there are new methods and techniques in JA that we will all develop in order to become better saberists. Until then, S/O needs new options that allow them to do just that. If you can't ENGAGE the guy in a duel, and he's being healed and energized every three seconds, and your saber does puny damage, and the guy decides to just run away, what are you supposed to do now?!? On top of that, even if your saber did reasonable damage, how are the opposing team members supposed to get this guy to engage them, if he just concentrates on escape? They can't REALLY STOP HIM!! If they can't kick the guy down, and he sets his absorb, push/pull defense up just right, it's just not going to happen. No amount of infinite saber skill and combos is going to stop this, because no one is really trying to engage in long duels. Result... STALEMATE.

 

"You suck for playing SO CTF"

 

... does anyone even really need to reply to this kind of remark? This has NOTHING to do with the discussion. These serious players did not come onto this forum saying "you all suck for playing FFA/Siege/anything else". Not one crack was taken. They could careless about your game type (at the moment anyway). They just want their gametype to be salvagable, but all you could think of was a corny flame.

 

In the end, the other side of the coin has generally been WORTHLESS in the discussion, minus two or three people. There were so few constructive replies to the S/O concerns here, I can't even remember which ones they were.

 

I was actually INTERESTED in what the S/O clans had to say here. They obviously play the game meticulously, and they voiced a concern. As usual, the JO/JA community comes in with a massive spam fest, half the posters not even reading the previous posts, and only two or three people taking part in a DISCUSSION, rather than "it's a new game, you suck, get out".

 

And please, stop trying the old skool S/O CTF clans how to play their specialty game type. Especially when you don't play it yourself. Once again, I'm not targetting specific people, but some of the posts were just completely uninformed. Being wrong is one thing... being wrong and cocky about it is another. You know who you are.

 

And finally, it's ironic that everyone is backlashing on these poor guys. They want to change something for their gametype, and the whole community comes to arms... but in the early days, when people didn't like the fact that they died to fast in Duels, it was a different story. I wish I could go back in time and give you a dose of the same treatment you give the S/O CTF clans. It would be nice to read the reactions.

 

thank you for the exellent and informed post.

[{DHU}Screed]

Ok heres my 2 cents.

 

Turbo, I really couldnt have said it better myself.

 

I have played all gametypes for JA. They all seem fair. Heres an idea on how to catch an FC on FF CTF. Shoot him.

 

Obviously you didnt read any of the posts.... Were talking about FF/SO (thats Full Force Saber Only) Capture the Flag, and FF/SO Duel.

 

there are clearly two different types of people playing this game. on the one hand there are the people who only care about the scoreboard (pssst! that's you guys!) and will do whatever it takes to move their name up on it. on the other hand, there are the people who want to play the game for the fun of playing a STAR WARS game (that's me!)

 

Ok...... Immerse yourself into an actual star wars RPG like Galaxies, dont come into a FPS and try to play it like an RPG.

 

The sad truth is Media is right, Raven cares only for the majority, but were not asking them to change what the majority like. Were asking them to change a style of gameplay that we like.

 

FF/SO CTF is a joke as it stands for all of the above reasons. Its 1 giant stale mate.

[ic0n]

face it, ladies. JA is rpg candy. plain and simple. we're going to have to make the best of it, because the jk2 community is going to die out. we're just going to have to grin and bear it, and hopefully everything will come out allright.

oh, ps, for all of you that like the katas and special slowmo moves or whatever have a *cough* darth rpg *cough cough* great time with that.

[Prime]

Originally posted by mr2turbo

i was waiting for someone to point that out mediablitz. we all know its all about the benjamins, raven is just doing what they do best, making games to make them money, simple as that.

Of course. Why else would they make games?

[{DHU}Screed]

Companies like Raven have only shown me that they make games for money.

 

Companies like Blizzard make QUALITY games for money and work on fixing their flaws rather than giving up on them.

 

Raven gave up on Outcast after 1.04.

 

Blizzard is still making patches for ALL of their games, even really old ones such as Diablo or the Original War Craft etc....

 

Half the reason Outcast died is b/c Raven gave up on fixing and enhancing it. Instead they moved into the opposite direction with it. Making it worst/making more bugs.

 

It's not always about the benjamins is what im trying to say. You create a large and very loyal fanbase by always fixing and enhancing, not reaching a point of mediocraty and calling it quits, like Raven did with Outcast. Multiplayer games always need patching.

 

Hell even CounterStrike is still releasing patches and thats...how old?

[ic0n]

gave up on jk2? no they made ja. douche bagel.

[{DHU}Screed]

So... Blizzard made WarCraft 3 but their still patching WarCraft 2.

 

They gave up on Outcast.

[ic0n]

no... i dont think you get it. They made JA to replace outcast. they thought JA would be outcast plus plus, but they decided to take suggestions from "Darth RPG" and "Luke Skywanker", and ban the real pros from the jk2 community. ggfu.

[FlashRam]

The main thing JA will do is further seperate the community. Take JK2, where at least BaseJK was better then any of those lame ass mods. Not so with JA. BaseJA is tailored for the rpg darth mauls, and i'd say anyone who wants some skill involved will probably turn to adjusting their server settings. So eventually we will have 500 servers with all different settings, and very little common ground. Ladders will slowly die because each group plays the game differently. Maybe i'm wrong, who knows